I like how the game is progressing from an unplayable boring game, to a well thought out one.
The LV/medium spam is still going strong, but there are some other tactics being employed. I like how you made the Tiger more available. I suggest you expand the heavy tank pool through BGs. From another post of mine:
New heavy tank ideas which you could implement for multiplayer (due to some tanks being prototypes, so not really immersive for a campaign).
USF: T29 Heavy tank. Alongside King Tiger would be a great welcome as a heavy tank. Super expensive and slow, but extremely strong.
"But even before the Army deployed the M26 into combat in appreciable numbers just after the Battle of the Bulge, the T29 program came into existence on paper in the fall of 1944. After several months of positive feedback from frontline units using the Pershing, the Army decided to turn the drawings into reality.
In February 1945, the Army asked to procure 1200 of the new vehicles to smash what was left of the Third Reich’s armor."
Conceptualized during WW2, which should be a reason enough to add it.
Pershing Heavy tank. Self explanatory. Cheaper than a T29. Just like the CoH2 variant. Trades armour for agility.
Super Pershing
Axis:
Hungarian 44M Tas. Some sort of a hungarian BG.
Carro Armato P26/40 Italian Heavy tank. For an Italian BG.
Germans: King Tiger, Elefant (albeit much slower than CoH2 variant). Elefant could have high frontal armour, but weak side and rear armour.
UKF:
Matilda II, Comet, Challenger Mk VIII
I see no reason not to add such units through expansions/BGs. Would counteract the light/medium spam that is going on these days.
I think it would greatly expand the late game diversity.
I also do think that further reworks to the tank ranges should be made. Like CoH2 had. TDs have the pen/damage/range, but are squishier.
Another would be to rework the tank accuracy at all ranges. It would be much more difficult. It's not immersive that one tank can shoot further than the other, but what about accuracy at long range? TDs would have high accuracy at all ranges, along with the penetration and damage. And be squishy. Susceptible to dives. While heavy/medium/lights would have poor accuracy at super long range. That would also mean revising the cutoff points for all ranges. What it means "long range"... Does it start at 35, or 45, or whatever.
Because currently, a tank like the Hellcat, has the same range as a Tiger. It's impossible to not get shot at when you try to counter the tiger. You can only counter it reliably with AT walls. But as Tightrope showed.... Tiger has a great AI cannon which can wipe AT guns in a matter of seconds. Which is OK. It is a tank. I like how tanks are much more dangerous against infantry in COH3 than they were in COH2. Also, Hellcat only outranges the P4 by 5 range. Which is, for all intents and purposes, nullified. Tanks are much more responsive, and accelerate "faster" (jerk da/dt). So that 5 range turns into 0 range in a split second. And with P4 having better reload, and guaranteed pen. It wins against the Hellcat 100% of the time.
In COH2, the Jackson had a large, 15 range advantage. And if you wanted to fight it, you needed to flank with the P4. A P4 would always win against the Jackson, head to head, but not in "Real world scenarios", where the Jackson is not the frontline tank.
The game needs more heavy tanks. To do this you need to move forward in time in the Second World War, especially to reach the year 44-45. We need the Russian front, with the King tiger, is2, Elephant, Jagtiger, Sturmtiger, Pershing, Churchill Avr, Cocdrile, Isu 152... I think that a road map of the future of the game is needed and that it does not stagnate in these very times. early WW2. The Russians and the Okw must be back in COH3, in the end every WW2 fan wants to use their king tiger or sturm tiger.
The worst part about CoH 2 was the heavy tank late game IMO. Avoid at all costs.
I'd say it more has to do with map design/competitive map pool. And the horrible heavy balance. Like the 72.5 sight range KT (Spearhead + commander) at vet1 with the most popular OKW commanders.
Or the 400 armour elefant/jagd/ISU152 with 70 range and 300 dmg + 100% pen, on a map like Redball, where there are no avenues of flank.
One thing that COH3 has got going for it, is the map design for teamgames (heavies were never a problem in 1v1s). There are no super lane-y maps like Redball, Whiteball, Across the Rhine, etc....Most maps are wide, rather than elongated/laney in COH3 teamgame. And, more importantly, there is side armour. It's much easier to balance it out. You don't need to be on the ass of a tank to guarantee a rear hit.
As long as a heavy tank has clear weaknesses, especially with regards to the faction it is in. The heavies are more than welcome in my opinion.
Example:
What weaknesses did the KT have in COH2? Even with spearhead. It's agility was not as low as it should have been. It moved quite handsomely around the battlefield. It dealt 240 dmg per hit. Could insta wipe full squads that are just a tad clumped. Extremely high armour and health. And was not commander dependent. Hence the spearhead + commander upgrade granting it 72.5 FREAKING vision at vet1.... Jacksons are 60 range....Not to mention pretty good suppression. Great balance, that was.
Pershing was balanced. Weaker armour and HP for more agility. The main gun got overnerfed in the AI department, so the heavy cav saw little play in high rank games.
Tiger was a bit OP, but nothing much. Basically an upgraded version of the Pershing, with only slightly worse agility, but much better armour, HP, ROF, veterancy.
IS2 was also balanced. Slow and heavy. Tanky AF with a great cannon. Churchills were pretty bad unless you snowballed. Basically a veterancy meal for Panthers. Elefant and Jagd were completely unbalanced. They were too agile, and the maps were poorly designed to handle behemots that can't be flanked.
AVRE and Sturmtiger were just stupid. AVRE at least had lower AOE. Sturm used to have the decrew mechanic which got removed because of a potential abuse (hitting it yourself to decrew, then call in another one, but nobody did that....ever).
If the game stays like this it dies, the imbalance is terrible. Light vehicle spam, op allies... The game should have the greatest possible variety of vehicles and factions. To deny that is to declare his death. The king tiger has been in coh1 and coh2, and neither is unbalanced, you can read opinions today because they are the best rts. Is2, Avr, Elephant, Isu 152, Jagtiger, Sturm Tiger must be in the game.
If the game stays like this it dies, the imbalance is terrible. Light vehicle spam, op allies... The game should have the greatest possible variety of vehicles and factions. To deny that is to declare his death. The king tiger has been in coh1 and coh2, and neither is unbalanced, you can read opinions today because they are the best rts. Is2, Avr, Elephant, Isu 152, Jagtiger, Sturm Tiger must be in the game.
Light vehicle spam, yeah. Allies OP? Nah.
The one and only metric we have are the winrates. Which showed that 1.6.0 was axis dominated. Now allies received a couple of buffs. Will see if that needs nerfing. Like the guard section stun, that is, an AT nerf, since they got the AI buff.
Si el juego sigue así muere, el desequilibrio es terrible. Spam de vehículos ligeros, aliados operativos... El juego debe tener la mayor variedad posible de vehículos y facciones. Negarlo es declarar su muerte. El rey tigre ha estado en coh1 y coh2, y ninguno esta desequilibrado, puedes leer opiniones hoy porque son los mejores rts. Is2, Avr, Elephant, Isu 152, Jagtiger, Sturm Tiger deben estar en el juego.
Spam de vehículos ligeros, sí. ¿Aliados OP? No.
La única métrica que tenemos son las tasas de ganancia. Lo que demostró que 1.6.0 estaba dominado por los ejes. Ahora los aliados recibieron un par de ventajas. Veré si eso necesita ser nerfeado. Como el aturdimiento de la sección de guardia, es decir, un nerf AT, ya que obtuvieron la mejora de la IA.
Si el juego sigue así muere, el desequilibrio es terrible. Spam de vehículos ligeros, aliados operativos... El juego debe tener la mayor variedad posible de vehículos y facciones. Negarlo es declarar su muerte. El rey tigre ha estado en coh1 y coh2, y ninguno esta desequilibrado, puedes leer opiniones hoy porque son los mejores rts. Is2, Avr, Elephant, Isu 152, Jagtiger, Sturm Tiger deben estar en el juego.
Spam de vehículos ligeros, sí. ¿Aliados OP? No.
La única métrica que tenemos son las tasas de ganancia. Lo que demostró que 1.6.0 estaba dominado por los ejes. Ahora los aliados recibieron un par de ventajas. Veré si eso necesita ser nerfeado. Como el aturdimiento de la sección de guardia, es decir, un nerf AT, ya que obtuvieron la mejora de la IA.
Rangers no OP? XD play the game pls...
Rangers are not OP. And I do play the game. One thing that is OP in that BG, and needs a rework, is the AOE active ability "Designate assault position". Which makes it really hard to suppress rangers. Rangers are extremely expensive, cost 14 pop. Have high reinforce costs, and basically lock you into Infantry support center. Basically, you see rangers, you know what you are playing against. MGs should be able to suppress any and all infantry running across the open field.
Ranger spam usually leads to high bleed. Any sort of nerfs on the Rangers, would need to carry a large cost reduction. But then what would be the point? They are basically the "Heavy tanks" of infantry. That's their design. Extremely high cost. But you get what you payed for.
Clear counters for rangers: MGs, mines, non-sleeping tanks.
The designate assault position does need a rework. It's not good when it nullifies suppression. It's not a large AOE, but still. Maybe increase the cost to 100 munitions. and decrease from 50% suppression resistance to 40%. That would mean that you'd need yellow crater cover to be able to run past an MG.
Si el juego sigue así muere, el desequilibrio es terrible. Spam de vehículos ligeros, aliados operativos... El juego debe tener la mayor variedad posible de vehículos y facciones. Negarlo es declarar su muerte. El rey tigre ha estado en coh1 y coh2, y ninguno esta desequilibrado, puedes leer opiniones hoy porque son los mejores rts. Is2, Avr, Elephant, Isu 152, Jagtiger, Sturm Tiger deben estar en el juego.
Spam de vehículos ligeros, sí. ¿Aliados OP? No.
La única métrica que tenemos son las tasas de ganancia. Lo que demostró que 1.6.0 estaba dominado por los ejes. Ahora los aliados recibieron un par de ventajas. Veré si eso necesita ser nerfeado. Como el aturdimiento de la sección de guardia, es decir, un nerf AT, ya que obtuvieron la mejora de la IA.
Rangers no OP? XD play the game pls...
Rangers are not OP. And I do play the game. One thing that is OP in that BG, and needs a rework, is the AOE active ability "Designate assault position". Which makes it really hard to suppress rangers. Rangers are extremely expensive, cost 14 pop. Have high reinforce costs, and basically lock you into Infantry support center. Basically, you see rangers, you know what you are playing against. MGs should be able to suppress any and all infantry running across the open field.
Ranger spam usually leads to high bleed. Any sort of nerfs on the Rangers, would need to carry a large cost reduction. But then what would be the point? They are basically the "Heavy tanks" of infantry. That's their design. Extremely high cost. But you get what you payed for.
Clear counters for rangers: MGs, mines, non-sleeping tanks.
The designate assault position does need a rework. It's not good when it nullifies suppression. It's not a large AOE, but still. Maybe increase the cost to 100 munitions. and decrease from 50% suppression resistance to 40%. That would mean that you'd need yellow crater cover to be able to run past an MG.
agreed as long as you have a counter they are fine, they are better in close quarter maps with sight blockers and effective use of smoke, if they are so OP go and play them
Si el juego sigue así muere, el desequilibrio es terrible. Spam de vehículos ligeros, aliados operativos... El juego debe tener la mayor variedad posible de vehículos y facciones. Negarlo es declarar su muerte. El rey tigre ha estado en coh1 y coh2, y ninguno esta desequilibrado, puedes leer opiniones hoy porque son los mejores rts. Is2, Avr, Elephant, Isu 152, Jagtiger, Sturm Tiger deben estar en el juego.
Spam de vehículos ligeros, sí. ¿Aliados OP? No.
La única métrica que tenemos son las tasas de ganancia. Lo que demostró que 1.6.0 estaba dominado por los ejes. Ahora los aliados recibieron un par de ventajas. Veré si eso necesita ser nerfeado. Como el aturdimiento de la sección de guardia, es decir, un nerf AT, ya que obtuvieron la mejora de la IA.
Rangers no OP? XD play the game pls...
Rangers are not OP. And I do play the game. One thing that is OP in that BG, and needs a rework, is the AOE active ability "Designate assault position". Which makes it really hard to suppress rangers. Rangers are extremely expensive, cost 14 pop. Have high reinforce costs, and basically lock you into Infantry support center. Basically, you see rangers, you know what you are playing against. MGs should be able to suppress any and all infantry running across the open field.
Ranger spam usually leads to high bleed. Any sort of nerfs on the Rangers, would need to carry a large cost reduction. But then what would be the point? They are basically the "Heavy tanks" of infantry. That's their design. Extremely high cost. But you get what you payed for.
Clear counters for rangers: MGs, mines, non-sleeping tanks.
The designate assault position does need a rework. It's not good when it nullifies suppression. It's not a large AOE, but still. Maybe increase the cost to 100 munitions. and decrease from 50% suppression resistance to 40%. That would mean that you'd need yellow crater cover to be able to run past an MG.
agreed as long as you have a counter they are fine, they are better in close quarter maps with sight blockers and effective use of smoke, if they are so OP go and play them
A simple rework of the designate assault positions is needed. Not giving suppression bonus, but something else. Or just making it more expensive with a larger cooldown, using it only when you really need to push an MG.
Please god no. The worst part about coh2 was the arrival of late-game heavies in team games. It creates boring game play and helps players that are unable to micro
Please god no. The worst part about coh2 was the arrival of late-game heavies in team games. It creates boring game play and helps players that are unable to micro
That was due to map design. An Elefand or Jagd on Redball or similar maps was 0 micro unit that can be parked and shoot at 70 range. Map design in COH3 is vastly superior to COH2. Even if Elefants come, I don't see a map where they could not be flanked.
No need for more heavy tanks in the game already seeing DAK tiger In 80% of team the matches medium tanks should be the way to go instead of more heavy tanks that can one shot squads left and right that takes a considerable amount of units and resources to deal with. If more more heavy tanks are introduced in the game should also increase the pen values of all medium tanks at close range if you dive you die simple as that. Heavy tanks should not be heavy hitters and almost invincible like they where in coh2.
No need for more heavy tanks in the game already seeing DAK tiger In 80% of team the matches medium tanks should be the way to go instead of more heavy tanks that can one shot squads left and right that takes a considerable amount of units and resources to deal with. If more more heavy tanks are introduced in the game should also increase the pen values of all medium tanks at close range if you dive you die simple as that. Heavy tanks should not be heavy hitters and almost invincible like they where in coh2.
More Heavy tanks doesn't mean we'll see more of them on the field. I don't get why it would be controversial to want variety xD We won't see more heavy tanks, we'd see more varied gameplay on the other hand.
CoH3 perfectly balanced its heavy tanks up to now, so bringing some pershing, jadgtiger, king tiger & comet tank or even Char B1 in a free french BG would make the day for everyone! We'd stop seeing Black Prince or Churchill or Tigers exclusively
Agreed. It's not like you can even have more than 1 heavy tank on the field (unless you repair the wreck). And even if you could. A high population cost would offset the balance problem.
And the maps are vastly better designed than in COH2. Wider rather than taller. Makes having a Jagdtiger or an elefant, not as game breaking as having it on a map like.... Redball Express. And with wideness, comes shifting position. On a wide map, it's much harder for a super slow King Tiger to switch positions. Avoiding heavy tanks would be another depth for COH3 tactics.
The only heavy tank that would fit is the Elefant, some of them fought in Italy.
In campaign? Probably.
In multiplayer. They can add anything, since it's .... MP. Fun factor >> campaign immersion.
Let's be honest. COH3 is miles ahead of it's launch. But it's still quite boring to play. Medium tank spam is the pinnacle of victorious strategy. There are no upgrades above that. And with the fast tickrate, where most of the games are 20 minute ones. COH3 won't really have a larger playerbase than 2k. Whether you like it or not. Heavy tank variety and COH2 fun factor were the real deal. Some people don't like heavy tanks because they don't know how to counter them. And some were uncounterable in COH2 on some maps.
But unless Relic wants to have the same old meta that's been around for the past year: 1) Spam light tanks
2) Spam medium tanks
Then they will have to get used to the lower player counts. I mean, after the free weekend, and the sale, some stuck around, but not as many as one would hope. And the most criticism? Lack of teamgame variety. Most people play teamgames, and teamgames have devolved into tank spam. Which is a shame, because the map design is miles ahead of COH2. And on these maps, heavy tanks could actually be well balanced.
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