Suggestion for Industry commander (Easy fix)

#1
4 years ago
I know this bean up before, but to make it short it can't even produce only tanks and keep up with the MP in late-game. You have like 6-700 fuel over and zero MP when the battle is over, and then you had spent almost every single MP on tank units. One simply fix that should work is to let it produce MP enough to keep intact with the fuel for building tanks. You may want be able to effort much more than tanks, but better than it it's now when you have to wait sometimes minits to be able to build a single tank, and not to forget mention your often without infantry by then.

Plz, a simple fix to make this commander usefull again Relic.

Comments

  • #2
    4 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,018
    MP bleed definitely needs to be altered to reflect new unit prices and the greater mortality of infantry in combat. It's still a viable commander, but the hoops you have to jump through so that it doesn't break your bank is just ridiculous.
  • #3
    4 years ago
    Jarms48Jarms48 Posts: 403
    Really the only useful way to use this commander is to get a surplus of MP before the commander ability sets in, if not, or after extended game-play you'll find yourself in a bad situation. I think the Manpower hit should be lessened slightly, I'm not too sure the percentage lost, but increasing it by 5% shouldn't be too game-breaking. Besides, that MP is still going to decrease further the more popcap you start to fill, so it balances itself out nicely.
  • #4
    4 years ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 237
    Jarms48 wrote: »
    Really the only useful way to use this commander is to get a surplus of MP before the commander ability sets in, if not, or after extended game-play you'll find yourself in a bad situation. I think the Manpower hit should be lessened slightly, I'm not too sure the percentage lost, but increasing it by 5% shouldn't be too game-breaking. Besides, that MP is still going to decrease further the more popcap you start to fill, so it balances itself out nicely.


    Something like that, yeah.
  • #5
    4 years ago
    EpiC FAiLEpiC FAiL Posts: 560
    What about this: don't choose this commander at the beginning of the game. Just wait until you have enough infantry and/or MP. That's the easiest way.
  • #6
    4 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,018
    EpiC FAiL wrote: »
    What about this: don't choose this commander at the beginning of the game. Just wait until you have enough infantry and/or MP. That's the easiest way.
    That's the way to make it *somewhat* viable as it stands, but if the game draws on you will lose and it will be because of the MP bleed.

    On top of that, Soviet Union is not a reactionary force when it comes to commanders. They've been completely designed around having their commander amplify their roster. Forcing them to go without until later goes against pretty much the entire Soviet design and really screws the player. The MP drain needs to be fixed. It was set in a time when infantry didn't die so frequently and tanks cost more fuel but less MP. One of the fundamental elements of this commander, MP income, has been changed - but the commander has not changed with it.
  • #7
    4 years ago
    EpiC FAiLEpiC FAiL Posts: 560
    Allies already have the opportunity to increase their fuel income .At 3 CP you will get more fuel and a reduced build time for tanks. These boosts should definitely have a drawback - reduced MP income.

    If you wait until you have something like 7 or more CP and then choose your commander you will have enough MP. Of course, you have to be careful. You can't lose entire squads because of reduced MP income - that's how it (should) work(s).
  • #8
    4 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,018
    EpiC FAiL wrote: »
    Allies already have the opportunity to increase their fuel income .At 3 CP you will get more fuel and a reduced build time for tanks. These boosts should definitely have a drawback - reduced MP income.
    Absolutely. The point is how much MP should be reduced, and the argument is the current level is too much because (and I'll keep saying it) MP costs and infantry vulnerability have both changed since the commander was designed. The commander needs to be updated to reflect this new design.
    EpiC FAiL wrote: »
    If you wait until you have something like 7 or more CP and then choose your commander you will have enough MP.
    This completely goes against the grain of Soviet faction design though.
  • #9
    4 years ago
    EpiC FAiLEpiC FAiL Posts: 560
    Lazarus wrote: »
    Absolutely. The point is how much MP should be reduced, and the argument is the current level is too much because (and I'll keep saying it) MP costs and infantry vulnerability have both changed since the commander was designed. The commander needs to be updated to reflect this new design.

    Infantry vulnerability may has changed but that's no excuse for losing entire squads (you will have huge problems with MP only if you lose entire squads that then need to be replaced).

    I don't know if MP prices for tanks have changed so much that the commander needs to be reworked. Do you have examples for that?
    Lazarus wrote: »
    This completely goes against the grain of Soviet faction design though.

    LOL What? This commander offers nothing until KW-8 and KW-2 (maybe repair stations) that is extremely important. Just don't select the commander until you have enough CP for these tanks and you won't have problems with MP anymore.
  • #10
    4 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,018
    EpiC FAiL wrote: »
    Infantry vulnerability may has changed but that's no excuse for losing entire squads (you will have huge problems with MP only if you lose entire squads that then need to be replaced).
    It is easier to lose squads, yes but that's not the point. The point is you will need to reinforce significantly more frequently now that models die much quicker and that adds up. Maintaining 3 conscript squads and a pair of AT guns can very quickly break your bank even if all you're doing is reinforcing them and not replacing them.
    EpiC FAiL wrote: »
    I don't know if MP prices for tanks have changed so much that the commander needs to be reworked. Do you have examples for that?
    T34s used to cost 280 MP, went up to 310
    SU-85 used to cost 320 MP, went up to 340
    T-70 used to cost 160 MP, went up to 200

    All apart, these are tiny insignificant changes that you could deal with. But coming together, they break the commander.
    EpiC FAiL wrote: »
    LOL What? This commander offers nothing until KW-8 and KW-2 (maybe repair stations) that is extremely important. Just don't select the commander until you have enough CP for these tanks and you won't have problems with MP anymore.
    Amplifying the roster does not mean "gives you units". The fuel bonus from CP 3 amplifies the roster by changing your resource availability, so you get something at CP 3. This means even without dominance you'll have armor out far quicker than your opponent. The amplification of the roster, if you must see it that way, is the availability of light vehicles towards the end of the infantry phase, rather then the beginning of the vehicle phase. Being stuck with their stock standard roster with no amplification at all for 7 CPs goes completely against Soviet design.
  • #11
    4 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951
    I do like this commander a lot and love it in team games, especially against OKW on La Gleize. Hunker on the right hand fuel with 3-4 maxims, pop industry and hold out for 3 T34s by the 12 minute mark or so and smash an unprepared flank. But its unfeasible in a normal game, you have to have a proper match-up on the right map with teammates to cover your rear until the Swarm reaches critical mass, and even then you'll find yourself with tons of fuel and no MP, heavily crippling the doctrine's capability.It needs its numbers changed, its meant to emphasize tank warfare and swarming, but leaves little room for errors due to the MP changes they introduced.
  • #12
    4 years ago
    ValkyrieValkyrie Posts: 2,132
    Replace the passive ability with cargo trucks.

    It would fix the entire commander.
  • #13
    4 years ago
    Either just give them cardo trucks, or you could give a manpower discount to all vehicles whe still having the less mp and more fuel bonus. This would keep a costraint on you inf/support weapons but help the focus on vehicles to be improved.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

  • © SEGA. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Relic Entertainment, the Relic Entertainment logo, Company of Heroes and the Company of Heroes logo are either trademarks or registered trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.