How to deal with UKF late game

#1
4 years ago
We've been trying this combination. I choose OKW and my friend chooses Ostheer.
  • My friend has Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine and all the other free commanders.
  • I don't have any premium commander.
We start great in early game. In all the games we played, we hold the 3 VPs, and we earn great amount of fuel(both from fuel points and Luftwaffe Supplies). We play offensive, if enemy builds a bofors, we destroy it in a minute. Simply, we have a great early and mid game.

But in late game, British Armor spam just wrecks us! Simply is that. Racketenwerfer can't even damage them and since they're fast, they can flank our forces. We try to flank their tanks with panzerschrecks but their Achilleses don't let us do that.
Axis armor is too weak for them. Their cruisers and fireflies are godlike. Not to mention that crocodile will denies any infantry presence on it's vicinity.

So, what should we do ? Is it some kind of balance issue, or are we playing wrong ?

Comments

  • #2
    4 years ago
    BernhardtBernhardt Posts: 1,660
    King Tiger is needed for brit late game, even better with Jagdtiger behind, but not needed.

    Lose the mentality that every muni should go into shrecks and learn to use the sturmpio mine.
  • #3
    4 years ago
    Axis need to lose the over reliance on heavy tanks. For Brits it's really easy to take on heavy tanks because they can't dodge tulip rockets or move quick enough to escape the Comet and the Firefly. Use mobile tanks like the Panzer 4 and Panther, then later when you're dealing with a lot of Churchills, you need something hard hitting, with long range, like the Elefant, Jagdtiger and Pak43 but they need to be supported well so use more AT guns and less panzershrecks.
  • #4
    4 years ago
    when I play as Brits, MINES are the bane of my life! Axis never seem to use them just because (as OST) they cost 50 muni. Dont use Tigers as they dont have the speed or punch as a flanking Panther does. Glorious has the righ idea with the use of Elephant and Jagtiger. Pak43's are easily counterable so I personally would stay away, especially as the Airstrike from the brit commander decemates anything slow or unable to retreat.
  • #5
    4 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    Its been stated to a fault; Mines wins games. And its so very, very true. And its especially easy to do vs the brits, since more often than not, you dominate in early and midgame. Once you've established a nice foothold, just spam those mines as much as possible. You should have at least half of the map, properly more like 3/4 of it, so just use your resource advantage and your map advantage to lay down mines everywhere. Once the brits push back, they are gonna run into one hell of a bad day.;) Just make sure you dont take too many squad wipes along the way to the late game, as you need those squads to counter attack those grounded brit vehicles.;)
  • #6
    4 years ago
    Osteer CAS doctrine. Get to 12 cp. Find the forward retreat point. Wait for the brits to have a nice blob on it. Nuke it with Stuka.

    If they go emplacements just get a couple mortar teams and attack ground until they're dead.
  • #7
    4 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855
    Late game, use stugs and heavies to counter, stop trying to use shreks against anti-infantry vehicles, which a lot of axis players seem to want to do, use stugs instead.
  • #8
    4 years ago
    SmuckSmuck Posts: 48
    Get long-range artillary to bombard only the annoying emplacements - don't destroy emplacements of less importance because they reduce enemy pops. And then prepare to defend artillary if enemies try to assault it.

    Go straight for firefly tanks and destroy those first - they turn slow and have low armor and they can be shooting way back from those nearest tanks. Just ignore the nearest at first and destroy the fireflies. Check out the heavy churchill when it drives very close then it's going to drop a grenade, so just move everytime it's coming close.

    That's it.
  • #9
    4 years ago
    Its been stated to a fault; Mines wins games.

    The amount of truth here hurts.

    Funnily enough won a game with some friends in a 3v3, 2 of us British and 1 as the US. And my friend playing the other British used mines extremely effectively, so well to the point the Germans on the other team called him a map hacker, and then it descended to the base accusations of blaming Churchill spam, when we had a total of 3 Churchills between two of us. When really what he was doing was placing sandbags and then placed mines on the other side, so as soon as his German player saw free Green cover he ran over to it and put units there only for them to explode and never learned from this at all. And that entire side crumbled because of my friends excellent use of mines.
  • #10
    4 years ago
    At this time id like to point out the UKF tanks are more expensive and weaker than axis counter parts... so how do you think we feel when we go up against kings/tiger and panthers everygame... its going to come down to axis needing to learn how to fight their own tanks.

    Now to be helpful from a british players perspective to avoid being a biased rager.

    Mines. Jesus I hate AT mines. And the faust. And the skreks. In that particular order

    Avoid basic tigers. But kings are good ENDLESS the enemy has mines and some form of tank above the average medium tank, then u will just get bogged down flanked and killed. Panthers. We still have nothing to compete with panthers. Our comets kinda can but they cost more and come later game and are overall weaker except to maybe infantry. Pgrens with shkreks will destroy anything short of a churchill in its tracks.

    As OKW the volk blob of doom will wreck endless there is a centar. IF so just primary it then work on whats left. I rarely see brits have 2 at any given time

    Brits don't have a tank snare or a form of personal AT. (PIATs are a joke even axis recognize it at this point) No at nades or anything of the like so ur medium tanks are usually safe to push just minus the mines some players use but ours are triggered by infantry so using em late game is rough on the muni supply aswell as our sappers don't enjoy being bullet sponges placing the things.

    Hope this helps
  • #11
    3 years ago
    MisterMafMisterMaf Posts: 28
    edited April 2016

    Another Brit player perspective:

    My main two commanders that I pick from are Mobile Assault Regiment, and Royal Engineer Regiment. Which I choose is usually based on how quickly I need a counter to OKW blobs and what my fuel income looks like.

    Mid-game things that are a joke to me as a Brit player:

    • Light armor. AEC Mk.3 food. I actually hope enemies waste fuel on armored cars and Panzer 1s because they're adorable.

    Late-game things that don't scare me as a Brit player:

    • Blobs. I'll have an AVRE or a bunch of flamethrowers for that. Other players may use a Crocodile.
    • Air support spam. Centaur can deal with that if I really need it. Other players probably have a Bofors.
    • Medium armor. Firefly food, easily flankable with Cromwells and AEC Mk.3s.
    • Tiger tanks. Also Firefly food.

    Late-game things that do scare me as a Brit player:

    • Superheavy tank destroyers like the Jagdtiger and Elefant. Fireflies outrange just about everything they encounter except these guys. Going toe-to-toe with a well-supported Jagdtiger is hell because nothing I can field can hold a candle to this thing's combined beefiness and firepower. If I'm allowed to get in close, of course I can pick it apart just as well as anybody else, but if you keep it at range and back it up with combined arms, things get difficult very quickly.
    • Mines. People who effectively use AT mines are so annoying and put my maneuvers to a quite literal grinding halt. Do you know how impractical it is to escort everything with a minesweeper squad? I wish allied mines weren't set off by infantry or I would use them a lot more.
  • #12
    3 years ago
    BustRobotBustRobot Posts: 2
    edited April 2016

    Yet another Brit player perspective.

    Tigers and KTs do not scare me as the Brits for one simple reason - I can outnumber them. For every Tiger or KT I can potentially field different combinations of vehicles to easily counter them - 2 Comets / 1 Comet + 1 Firefly / 2-3 Cromwells - or even just 1 tank supported with an AT gun. Perhaps it's due to some of the myths surrounding the Tiger series but I see a lot of players treat them almost like they are nigh-on invulnerable, sending them in with little to no support to protect the Tiger / KT from enemy AT infantry, AT guns or enemy tanks.

    What scares me more late are when the Germans start fielding the cheaper but more plentiful units.
    (I disagree somewhat with the Superheavy Tank Destroyer method, as without supporting AT they can be too easily dealt with by mutiple faster tanks, especially when Brits go Hammer Tactics and gain the temporary War Speed boost - it again feeds into the same problem that the Tigers and KTs have in my mind, relying too much on one tank against the Brits. With that said, I can see how it could be effective as other have mentioned above).

    Panzer IV's in numbers are a quite good counter to the Cromwells, especially when supported by other AT like PaK guns. Panzer IV's supported by StuG III G's are even scarier due to the StuG's rate-of-fire and mobility. Yes the Firefly out-ranges it but the DPM of the Firefly is awful, StuG's are a fairly good counter to Fireflies. Take advantage of the Fireflies bad DPM to bring it down would be my advice.
    What is even scarier is when Panzer IV's and / or StuGs are backed-up with a Panther in the late-game - Panthers are the rough equivalent of Comets and have the potential to beat them 1-on-1.
    Also... MINES!

    Now this isn't to say the Tiger and KT (and Elefant and Jagdtiger) cannot work against Brits; they most certainly can and I have had them work very well, but they must be supported with other AT against Brit tanks. To be honest that's a good rule to have for every faction - I see far too many people make the mistake of relying too much on getting that one, big late-game tank to win them the battles, (A mistake I used to make all too often with the USF Pershing), so that even if they get the early-game advantage they wind up losing the late game because they don't have the effective support the tank needs.

    So my advice, as a Brit player, would be this: if it fits into your strategy then get the Tiger or the KT, but do not rely on it as that single game winning unit; make sure it has the support it needs to deal with multiple enemy tanks - even something as simple as Grenadiers using Panzerfausts is good, but make sure the support is there.

    P.S. Just wanted to say I disagree with Lunarstor somewhat about PIATS. I can see why many think they are a joke, they have trouble hitting a moving target, but here it is a matter of micro. Success with PIATS comes from being able to out-micro your opponent, so they don't keep the tank moving then the PIATS can hit. And when PIATS hit the damage they do is respectable.

  • #13
    3 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229
    edited April 2016

    @Martinsteiner said:
    We've been trying this combination. I choose OKW and my friend chooses Ostheer.
    * My friend has Luftwaffe Supply Doctrine and all the other free commanders.
    * I don't have any premium commander.

    We start great in early game. In all the games we played, we hold the 3 VPs, and we earn great amount of fuel(both from fuel points and Luftwaffe Supplies). We play offensive, if enemy builds a bofors, we destroy it in a minute. Simply, we have a great early and mid game.

    But in late game, British Armor spam just wrecks us! Simply is that. Racketenwerfer can't even damage them and since they're fast, they can flank our forces. We try to flank their tanks with panzerschrecks but their Achilleses don't let us do that.
    Axis armor is too weak for them. Their cruisers and fireflies are godlike. Not to mention that crocodile will denies any infantry presence on it's vicinity.

    So, what should we do ? Is it some kind of balance issue, or are we playing wrong ?

    You should consider destroying enemy fuel caches; get at least 3 volks with shreks out in the frontlines in combo with an AT gun or two; puma is very potent against medium armor and below once its vetted, plus it has target weak point ability, which locks hull gun; get either a jag panther or the big panther 5 (which ever you can afford at the moment) b/c both are very effective counters. All of these units will help you fend off brit amour until your heavy armor hits the field. Believe me their all worth fuel/man power investment, but don't spam them so you can afford KT later.

  • #14
    3 years ago

    STUGs can pretty much deal with any British armor threat with their insane ROF and cheap cost. Using an Ostwind/STUG combo is surprisingly effective vs. British because it forces them to make AT guns. Learn and abuse the Rifle Grenade on Vickers. Scope + STUG = dead British vehicles. Well-timed weak point shots will make mincemeat out of Cruisers/Centaurs even Comets.

    As OKW, Jagdtiger Commander is by far the best anti-British commander. Assault artillery + Jagdtiger + G43 Fusiliers is pretty effective. P4s and Panthers are a waste of time. Your infantry are better than theirs. Jagdpanzers are amazing tank hunters. King Tigers are pretty effective if supported by Volksgrenadiers to deal with Fireflies.

    But yeah, I never use Panzer IV's Panthers or regular Tigers ever. They are not worth the cost to straight up damage tanks.

  • #15
    3 years ago
    SilleSille Posts: 70
    edited May 2016

    I wanna know how to deal whit late game german stuff as USF the m36 is just missing and bouncing and flanking & mines wont do much when they have shrek spam on the side and a stuka.

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