Wehrmacht, lacking good Anti-Infantry?

#1
3 years ago
How is Wehr supposed to deal with Blobbers?

Ostwind -> Its AI-Performance is too bad, especially for the price. On a leveled map, most shots bounce of the ground or nearby objects.
Flame-Halftruck -> Good AI-Performance, very squishy to control... tends to make meaningless U-Turns. Very Bad survivablity... even against enemy MG's.
MG -> Poor setup-time, can easily be countered with smoke grenades or Infantry-Sections in Green-Cover (head-on).
Mortar -> Works, but its only really efficient against really big blobs or stationary targets.
Panzerwerfer -> T4, comes too late.
Brumbar -> T4, comes to late.

Let's compare that with the British:
Centaur -> Destroys everything that does not have any armor. Shots don't bounce on leveled ground.
Flame-Carrier -> Costs a lot less than the Flame-Halftruck, arrives a bit earlier. Has very high range and about the same DPS.
Mortar-Encampment -> Very good against infantry, high rate of fire. Has to be taken down with Flames, Grenades or Artillery.
BOFOR -> Area denial, very effective against Infantry. Hard to take down without Mortars, Artillery or Medium Vehicles.

Let's compare it with OKW:
Ostwind -> Same as above, even though this time it is doctrinal... which means its noticeably cheaper (as long as only a max of two units gets called-in).
Flack-Halftruck -> Good Against infantry, shots tend to bounce on leveled Ground. Overall good survivablity, cause it comes out early.
STUKA -> Very effective against encampments and big Blobs.
Luchs -> A true infantry sniper, can chase retreating squads and has good DPS. Its shots are precise and don't bounce on leveled ground.

Comments

  • #2
    3 years ago
    PastulioPastulio Posts: 2,057
    Ostwind not so bad. And Brumbar just come too Late.

    Wernacht lacking infantry to hold blob.
  • #3
    3 years ago
    Razor1O9Razor1O9 Posts: 337
    Pastulio wrote: »
    Wernacht lacking infantry to hold blob.

    That's the essence, they really do.
  • #4
    3 years ago
    TrubbbelTrubbbel Posts: 288
    Razor1O9 wrote: »
    That, or the Ostwinds performance has to be noticeably buffed.... it takes ages to wipe a single infantry squad.

    AGREED. The Ostwind need to be useful against anything other than shooting planes. There aren't any light vehicles left to shoot at when it comes out.
  • #5
    3 years ago
    PastulioPastulio Posts: 2,057
    Razor1O9 wrote: »

    That's the essence, they really do.

    It needs infantry change not armor buff.
  • #6
    3 years ago
    BlackartBlackart Posts: 259
    Replace Ostwind with Wirbelwind and give him similar AI performance as Centaur but worse AT performance then Ostwind.
  • #7
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Is this asking for advice, or a balance thread, which should be moved to the balance forum?

  • #8
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    If it's actually advice, and in the right forum, use a combination of MG-42's, unambiguously the best MG in the game, and Grenadiers with their LMG's and rifle grenades. Seriously rifle grenades squad wipe a LOT, those, in combo with scout cars for mobile defense is excellent AI.

  • #9
    3 years ago
    GenObiGenObi Posts: 1,368
    This thread is 4 months old, MGSsand any explosive weapons would do. I personaly build double PGs and deal serious AI damge to enemy squads.
  • #10
    3 years ago
    PalestinaPalestina CanadaPosts: 7

    It's because they rely more on pure German Engineering to win, not infantry. :smile:

  • #11
    3 years ago

    -Brumbar compare to the brittish mortar tank , its a baby. Germans need the same damage as the brittish counter part plus the british tank is much stronger.

    -Flakk 88 its needs to be just the way it was in RL and in COH1 , not a placement like the brittish.

    -Panzergren/ Stormtroopers arent they the elite german troops? they dont see so...they die like roaches.

    -Panther is supposed to be just below a tiger tank? i mean the cost is too much compare to what the tank can do...easly counter.

    The game is great, its just need the rigth tweeking...Keep the GJ!

  • #12
    3 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498
    edited May 2016

    @Hopesome1 said:
    -Brumbar compare to the brittish mortar tank , its a baby. Germans need the same damage as the brittish counter part plus the british tank is much stronger.

    -Flakk 88 its needs to be just the way it was in RL and in COH1 , not a placement like the brittish.

    -Panzergren/ Stormtroopers arent they the elite german troops? they dont see so...they die like roaches.

    -Panther is supposed to be just below a tiger tank? i mean the cost is too much compare to what the tank can do...easly counter.

    The game is great, its just need the rigth tweeking...Keep the GJ!

    You gotta use the fatherland's steel and soldiers right, man.

    Panther's an AT tank so don't expect it to wipe Allied squads (Allies have big squad sizes and they are always spaced out)

    Ostwind is pretty much an infantry sniper and is a counter to light vehicles too.

    PGrens are squishy and HAVE to be up close. They must be used as a dedicated assault infantry or AT squad if you upgrade PShrecks. They will lose to the May Update Penals from range. Also do not 1v1 5 man Commandos or Shock Troops head on with them unless you're at a clear advantage.

    Same deal with Stormtroopers. Treat them like Grenadiers when they have rifles or PShrek, but treat them like PGrens when they have STG's.

    Brummbar is a god. Sh*ts on Shock Troops, wayyyyyy to tanky for American AT, destroys Brit emplacements with ease, reliably takes care of freedom blobs. Obv not effective vs. tanks.

    Wehrmacht's infantry are not versatile and are only good at fighting what they are intended to fight, you should definitly practice with these units.

  • #13
    2 years ago
    NoitatohtoriNoitatoht… Posts: 182

    @captainjordy said:

    @Hopesome1 said:
    -Brumbar compare to the brittish mortar tank , its a baby. Germans need the same damage as the brittish counter part plus the british tank is much stronger.

    -Flakk 88 its needs to be just the way it was in RL and in COH1 , not a placement like the brittish.

    -Panzergren/ Stormtroopers arent they the elite german troops? they dont see so...they die like roaches.

    -Panther is supposed to be just below a tiger tank? i mean the cost is too much compare to what the tank can do...easly counter.

    The game is great, its just need the rigth tweeking...Keep the GJ!

    You gotta use the fatherland's steel and soldiers right, man.

    Panther's an AT tank so don't expect it to wipe Allied squads (Allies have big squad sizes and they are always spaced out)

    Ostwind is pretty much an infantry sniper and is a counter to light vehicles too.

    PGrens are squishy and HAVE to be up close. They must be used as a dedicated assault infantry or AT squad if you upgrade PShrecks. They will lose to the May Update Penals from range. Also do not 1v1 5 man Commandos or Shock Troops head on with them unless you're at a clear advantage.

    Same deal with Stormtroopers. Treat them like Grenadiers when they have rifles or PShrek, but treat them like PGrens when they have STG's.

    Brummbar is a god. Sh*ts on Shock Troops, wayyyyyy to tanky for American AT, destroys Brit emplacements with ease, reliably takes care of freedom blobs. Obv not effective vs. tanks.

    Wehrmacht's infantry are not versatile and are only good at fighting what they are intended to fight, you should definitly practice with these units.

    I must disagree with you on most points. Ostwind and PGrens are not nearly as good as you make them up to be, while Storms perform rather poorly without STG's and Vet considering their exorbitant price. Brummbär is fine, but very inaccurate.

    Most Allied infantry simply shit on all Axis infantry, and Ostheer's only good anti-infantry tools are MG, Panzerwerfer and Mortar.

  • #14
    2 years ago
    potatoespotatoes Posts: 12

    @Razor1O9 said:
    How is Wehr supposed to deal with Blobbers?

    Ostwind -> Its AI-Performance is too bad, especially for the price. On a leveled map, most shots bounce of the ground or nearby objects.
    Flame-Halftruck -> Good AI-Performance, very squishy to control... tends to make meaningless U-Turns. Very Bad survivablity... even against enemy MG's.
    MG -> Poor setup-time, can easily be countered with smoke grenades or Infantry-Sections in Green-Cover (head-on).
    Mortar -> Works, but its only really efficient against really big blobs or stationary targets.
    Panzerwerfer -> T4, comes too late.
    Brumbar -> T4, comes to late.

    Let's compare that with the British:
    Centaur -> Destroys everything that does not have any armor. Shots don't bounce on leveled ground.
    Flame-Carrier -> Costs a lot less than the Flame-Halftruck, arrives a bit earlier. Has very high range and about the same DPS.
    Mortar-Encampment -> Very good against infantry, high rate of fire. Has to be taken down with Flames, Grenades or Artillery.
    BOFOR -> Area denial, very effective against Infantry. Hard to take down without Mortars, Artillery or Medium Vehicles.

    Let's compare it with OKW:
    Ostwind -> Same as above, even though this time it is doctrinal... which means its noticeably cheaper (as long as only a max of two units gets called-in).
    Flack-Halftruck -> Good Against infantry, shots tend to bounce on leveled Ground. Overall good survivablity, cause it comes out early.
    STUKA -> Very effective against encampments and big Blobs.
    Luchs -> A true infantry sniper, can chase retreating squads and has good DPS. Its shots are precise and don't bounce on leveled ground.

    You didn't cite the wehr sniper which, in most high level replays seems to be a core part of build order

    Still, look at the optimal conditions for grenadier usage: grenadiers will drop an infantry section, conscript, or US Rifleman model if both are at obersoldaten-optimal range if both are stationary (unless the infantry section is in green cover, in which case I think it outdoes all of its counterparts), before the grenadiers take even half a model of damage. Add an MG42 or G43 upgrade and the already tanky and accurate individual model becomes a guaranteed model bleeder, and that's even without considering those incredibly obnoxious rifle grenades

    As most early game ostheer play is more careful, it punishes the faster, less prepared pushes that US riflemen (whose best DPS is achieved by charging down and outDPSing at medium-close range) and conscripts (whose best DPS is achieved again, by charging down and outDPSing at medium-close range, so long as you outnumber the enemy units by a factor of 2) are designed for.

    Late game however a brumbar is the bane of buildings, frontal penetration, and infantry; as late as it comes, WHEN it comes most players ought to be afraid of using their vet squads for scouting because those squads will almost always lose half of their health to one shot, and be forced to retreat, and thus unavailable for a push or counterattack

  • #15
    2 years ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited July 2016

    Ostwind needs a received accuracy buff against handheld antitank at max range. Make a severe drop off in accuracy for zooks, ptrs at max range. Since the Ostwind needs to stay still to do anything, it should get a defensive bonus or else single zook inf blobs can hardcounter an Ostwind and the engine crit follows closely after.

  • #16
    2 years ago
    PedroPedro Posts: 63
    edited July 2016

    one word : BUNKERS :)
    Build a bunker give it some backup and you'llbe fine ;]

    PS Ofcourse bunker with MG upgrade - they supress enemy infantry really fast.

  • #17
    2 years ago

    Your forgeting about okw's Falls with basically wipe any infantry par shock troops and commandos and if you do face them you do it from long range. Falls are basically the best long range infantry and can snare at with the panzerfausts and they are pretty much obers that fall from the sky and can pretty much troll your opponent, but at a high cost. But the doctrine they come with seems to be more early-mid game focused. As for not having good anti infantry i agree to get some decent anti infantry you basically have to turtle the entire game.

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