Relic Balance Preview Mod Feedback



  • #32
    5 years ago
    CntoCaCntoCa Posts: 17

    After test the mod, I find something here:

    1. Call-in MG42 for OKW has 90 degree firing angle instead of 120 degree(original).

    2. JP IV has 120 degree vision instead of 360 degree vision( original maybe, not sure) which means if JP IV is alone you only have front vision(120 degree), you can not see anything on your back or flank.

    3. SU-85 pen is too high that "almost"(around 80% chance) penetrate every single shot to vet 5 KT's front.

    4. Compare to the new SU-85,JP IV might need pen buff, it is really hard to pen heavies' front.

    Overall, it is a good mod. Need further test as well.

  • #33
    5 years ago
    mosquito747mosquito7… Posts: 1
    edited April 2016

    At first i m a 600+h player,my best rank is near 200, and i mostly played in 1v1 and 2v2. I have played this patch for at least 6 hours and matched with some players.So i do believe i can claim my opinions.

    Heavy armored Tanks

    I like this changes but tell me why not change the armor of British Forces? Comet and Churchill is not included? And i don't think it's good to reduce the King Tiger's armor less than IS-2. Further more, Heavy Tank Destroyer such as Elephant need better rear armor for its bad flexibility and fixed turret which is different to M10 and M36.

    Core Infantry/Small Team Weapon Spawn Points

    USF and British Forces can't enjoy this change.

    I do think it's a good idea for soviets. Reduce manpower cost only is better , T-34/76 is good enough to against infantry now with his powerful movement and rotation rate.

    It's a good buff for better performance. But don't forget the Tiger, they show up with the same CPs, the same cost, i don't think they should have large difference in action. The Tiger now reminds me of WOT, anyone can puncture it easily.

    Soviet Sniper
    Why changed the target size, but only improved the Soviet Sniper's health? So it may be the real ghost in war, no one but armor could shoot them down.

    Penal Battalion
    Penal Battalion is OP now. Without upgrade, they can easily beat down any infantry sections(ANY,ANY,ANY). Even when rifleman or British's infantry section put on arms, they can also win in mid/near distance. Well, sometimes they can slaughter Stumpioneer face to face.
    I sincerely request you to focus on this unit.

    60mm Mortar
    I love this unit, it's a really good change.

    This is the biggest problem for USF. It used to be most valuable, but now i believe it is the least valuable unit.
    I do think two Bazookas is over powerful. But if i need to pick up weapons like other unit, why i choose him? I wish Captain remain 1 Bazookas, or I can upgrade in the platoon.

    60 munitions for 6 shells? Cheaper than grenades?

    I do love this change and thanks.
    If u can improve Tiger's performance(armor is tooooo poor), I would thanks a lot.
    I think Grenadiers need this ability of constructing sandbags, not Pioneers.

    With some matches i have to say, in some maps this change is good, but not good for all maps.Volks can deal more damage.Strong players with this change can be stronger when against weak players. But while facing to top players such as jove :D, OKW can't limit enemy's light tanks without sprint skill and long-range ats. I do think blobbing Panzershrek is not good, but without it OKW would die because they can only built tanks after PanzerHeadquarters, which means they need to put more resource on light armor(puma) to against tanks. Here is my opinions of this change:
    Solution 1. I think OKW need a low tech tank, or Tank Destroyer.
    Solution 2. Make the Mp44 upgrade in tech-2 , Panzershrek upgrade in tech-3, Volks with Mp44 have no Panzerfaust, Volks with Panzershrek have no granate but panzerfaust. And the upgrade makes Volks have more population and reinforce's manpower to avoid blob( i do think improve the maintenance costs for any upgrade units is a good idea, such as Browning lmg ,Bazookas, Buren, PIAT)
    Solution 3. Make a good AT for OKW(not easy to kill, long range.)

    Thanks for reading, I really love this game so i want it to be better.

  • #34
    5 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    Cleaned up the thread a bit. Try not to derail it with discussions. This is to provide feedback to Relic on the balance preview.

  • #35
    5 years ago
    GeneralIlareneGGeneralIl… Baguette's countryPosts: 420
    edited May 2016

    For now my only big issue is
    Core Infantry/Small Team Weapon Spawn Points

    It wasn't needed in coh2 as engagements comes already quick. Unlike others rts you don't spend several minutes collecting materials. And it's an unfair advantage to the sov, wehr, okw. It's not just speeding initial engagement it's allow you to win extra time for the entire game compared to US/UK and depending on the map it's more or less important.

    I hope you won't implement it specially because spawn was never an issue.

    Edit 1: Cpt squad need to have RE replaced by RM now it no longer has the two zookas.

    Edit 2: removed (Fixed in update)

    Edit 3 after the last updates:
    Sturmpionners shoud choose between shreck and minesweeper or at least loose the ability to turn on/off the ability when they are equipped of both. It's pretty ridiculous to see them switch between AR and sweeper on top of having an AT weapon.
    They are currently too much versatile

    Volks: Once pinned (red) they are still able to use the faust. They should not; if someone manage to red pin them before volks use their ability (for ex to take down a scout car), it should matter and the player should be "rewarded" fot this, and not the current state were they don't even care.

    i'll edit for other feedbacks

  • #36
    5 years ago
    PanzerFaustPanzerFau… NoPosts: 284

    The Penal buffs are good, they now perform very well and you now have the alternative "elite" SU as opposed to Maximum/Cons spam. However, they vet up too fast(first engagement with Assault package easily gives them vet 1). The veterancy requirements should be adjusted. Also their long range accuracy should be adjusted so that theyre only useful at short range and do not threaten long range infantry at long range.

  • #37
    5 years ago

    I played soviets, brits and OKW. Really like the changes made and it exceeded the expectations.

    I think you should keep the experimental changes but I think shrecks should be given to strums.

  • #38
    5 years ago
    ofieldofield Posts: 630
    edited April 2016

    I would like to make a suggestion regarding the volks schrecks problem:

    Reduce base volkgrenadier squad size by 1
    Reduce manpower cost to compensate to 200-220
    STG44 upgrade adds panzerfaust, + 1 squadmember + 2 STG44 for 60 ammo (occupies both weapon slots)
    Schreckupgrade adds simply a single schreck.
    Both of course mutual exlusive.

  • #40
    5 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    Kindly don't make several posts. Make one post. You're not the only one here on the forums And Relic shouldn't have to wade through several posts from the same fellow.

  • #41
    5 years ago

    I've played the mod for a couple hours (with my account and my friend's account) and I think 80% it's fine to me.

    I'm still thinking on penals because they get vet too fast and that it should be changed to make them more balanced against other infantry , but they're fine at all.
    I like the new SU-85 and T-34/76, now SU can deal with heavy and medium tanks like panther and tiger without fear. Finally we will see more SU tanks in the battlefield.

    I love the new volks, because they perform well as a good mainline infantry, without the shreks you have to use more strategic diversity to deal with tanks and infantry at the same time. Nothing more to say about OBK, all the other changes are fine to me.

    Nothing to say about this changes, I agree with all of this.

    I've not played with USF and UKF, I'm gonna test this factions and I will see if they are good.

  • #42
    5 years ago
    bingo12345bingo12345 Posts: 100
    edited April 2016

    @Meow said:

    I have played 3-4 matches as soviet and i can say penals are too strong , reduce their dmg per shot back to 8 and they will be fine. Right now they obliterate every other axis early game squad at any range.

    Their assault package should stay because Soviets don't have any infantry upgrades on their in tech tree and upgrade is not that overpowered.

    Axis early game squad have panzerfaust and rifle grenade. penal have only one skill. more expensive (300mp). don't compare with 250 mp(volks), 240 mp(gren) squad that have many ability and are cheap.

    if penals have innate AT snare ability like panzerfaust like gren and volks, it is reasonable that penals lose at 35 range combat against gren, volks. otherwise, penals should perform as stronger rifle man squad because of price.

  • #43
    5 years ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    @bingo12345 said:

    @Meow said:

    I have played 3-4 matches as soviet and i can say penals are too strong , reduce their dmg per shot back to 8 and they will be fine. Right now they obliterate every other axis early game squad at any range.

    Their assault package should stay because Soviets don't have any infantry upgrades on their in tech tree and upgrade is not that overpowered.

    Axis early game squad have panzerfaust and rifle grenade. penal have only one skill. more expensive (300mp). don't compare with 250 mp(volks), 240 mp(gren) squad that have many ability and are cheap.

    if penals have innate AT snare ability like panzerfaust like gren and volks, it is reasonable that penals lose at 35 range combat against gren, volks. otherwise, penals should perform as stronger rifle man squad because of price.

    Actually that all makes sense

  • #44
    5 years ago
    PolarLightsPolarLigh… Posts: 1
    edited April 2016
    1. Mines: Could use more quality of life adjustment in that having one model hit the mine results in all squad members takeing full 70 damage. As it stands, Axis models still clump together; so all models are hit for damage as opposed to far spaced Russian squads where only one unit is damaged. After watching a twitch stream of the mini tourney with top players, believe that a unit can still instant wipe from a mine due to negative covers damage bonus (which is what the mod is trying to stop!).

    2. Quality of life with "bad" Rng: Axis units clump and therefore still fall victim to "bad" squad wiping RNG. Such as a single tank shell wiping a full health squad. Fix this by increasing unit spacing.

    3. In buffing anti-tank penetration values. This was done to make it easier to kill Axis heavy armor. But the other effect is that it makes killing medium armor far easier as shots will bounce far less. Suggest that values be reverted and instead units be given additional penetration with the core mechanic of veterancy.

    4. Infantry spawn points: "Slightly speed up initial engagements" would be better done if each players side of the map was already capped at game start.

    5. OKW strategic Diversity: There is still none. You still build a bunch of volks as sturms are too expensive and it is not viable to build more than one kubel. Also sad face that kubel (the cheap capping unit) has no access to a mine sweeper so can still be done in by a simple mine. Only fix I can see is just doing away with all the factions building tiers. First 8 minutes of the game is just plain stale as its the same units doing the same things.

    6. OKW medic and mech tech changes: Its ok except for the very long build time of setting up the truck and then the massive build time of the medics. Results in you having to wait far too long for healing. Suggest making build time of medics/repair guys instant.

    7. OKW MG34: Can suppress for days but fails to pin units even when they are point blank in front of it. A unit can very well decap a point as it takes far too long for the pin to occur. Bring its pin time in line with other MG units. Also units can take two full bursts and not lose a single model. I am ok with the still terrible damage but a MG that does not pin is very worthless.

    8. OKW Volks: StG 44 needs increased on the move accuracy. Running down a retreating unit with the upgrade is futile as so many shots will miss (or perhaps the damage is just on the low side?). Also it seems like it is far too easy to gun down retreating okw units (possible bug??).
      Removal of panzershreck leaves a gaping hole in Okw vs any sort of armor. Raketenwerfer suffers from line of sight/setup/lack of range/accuracy/no protection from tank fire. A single burst from the British Centaur can decrew the gun. It was heartening to see tourney pros lose Raks, then immediately have them stolen as once you grab them; you just hit the retreat button for the easy steal (I was wondering if I was just terrible, but nope its the Raks!)
      Removing shrecks did not stop volk blobbing for the mere reason there is no compelling infantry to complement volks. Strums and Obers both still suffer from massive durability/manpower bleed/timing/utility problems (sturms have to do far too much and obers can do far too little).

    9. Land mattress: As good or better than a stuka but only costs 40 fuel. Increase fuel cost to 100 in order to bring it in line with other such units.

    10. Penal Battalion: Their power level is over 9,000.

    Played a bunch of games with the mod and watched the mini tourney with elites like Jove.
    Was hoping this would make the game a bit more fun.
    After a couple days my reaction is a lukewarm "meh".
    It has totally upset me to the point where I just had to give feedback.
    Talking about "Bad RNG" and not improving Axis unit spacing just leaves me so annoyed.

  • #45
    5 years ago
    YandereCMYandereCM Posts: 5

    Played couple of hours and have some comments about VG...
    For consistency with USF's thompson, VG's two StG44 package should actually cost 1 weapon slot, instead of two slots as it does now. Their stats are comparable, StG44 is slightly worse actually, unlike its infrared version.

  • #46
    5 years ago

    @YandereCM said:
    Played couple of hours and have some comments about VG...
    For consistency with USF's thompson, VG's two StG44 package should actually cost 1 weapon slot, instead of two slots as it does now. Their stats are comparable, StG44 is slightly worse actually, unlike its infrared version.

    I would agree with this, Its frustrating not being able to pick up a leftover Bar or Bazooka with your mainline infantry after upgrading.

  • #47
    5 years ago
    Vinyl41Vinyl41 PolandPosts: 18
    edited May 2016

    STG volks are good ( maybe to good for the price ) and that might be a problem cause right now playing as okw you lack handheld AT, which sucks cause the raketens tend to get decrewed rather often, and as the mini tournament shown okw still can run the game with volks only ( volks shrek spam turned into stg volks spam - where is that diversity change? )
    to add some salt to the injury new volks kinda make okw elite inf obsolete - volks are cheap, tanky and get a solid upgrade ( thats kinda alot of goodies for a baseline inf )
    about the spawn mechanics change i personaly dont like it
    now to soviets, penals are wow rly good ( propably to cheap now ) and the t34/76 woah thats some nasty monster vs inf ( gl coutering that with raketens only ), but its t4 so it should be more or less balanced

  • #48
    5 years ago
    MikeHaggarMikeHaggar Posts: 635
    edited May 2016

    I only play against the AI and I'm not sure if anyone at Relic cares about feedback about playing against the AI, but I'll give my two cents.

    General thoughts: infantry and vehicles are squishier in this patch and die easily. In general the AI felt a bit less ruthless than usual, it spammed a lot of minor units but waited too long to put out tanks. I just want to say that playing against the AI as of the latest official patch has been amazing, the AI plays tough but fair, and I hope there aren't any plans to weaken the AI.

    Thoughts on changes for the US:

    • the Captain's bazookas change is the only questionable US change for me. Usually the AI likes to spam Panzer II's and especially Pumas early on, making a bazooka Captain vital, and making T2 almost completely useless because you at least need the Captain's bazookas to hold the line, and the T3 AT guns to push them back. In the games I played today the AI was slower to pump out armor, and buying bazookas was cheap enough. It might work but a lack of AT support for the US needs to be balanced, I have been disappointed for a while at how useless T2 is due to it having zero AT weapons.

    Thoughts on changes for OKW:

    • I am not really digging the sturm volks. I get that something needed to be done about schreck spam blobs, but now Volks are basically serving the exact same offensive combat role as sturmpioneers. I don't really think they need any weapon upgrade, at 235 manpower or whatever they are ridiculously cheap, and once they vet up they are pretty good. Now they have a flame grenade and panzerfausts which makes them pretty well rounded.
    • I am also not really digging the volks panzerfausts because the AI spams them all day long. Ost Grens abuse them too and something needed to be done about the AI's endless munitions a while ago.

    I just played as Soviets and they were fun for the first time in quite a while, mainly just because Penals are now worth a damn and can last into the later game, and the T-34 combined with a SU-76 can push back infantry and tanks now.

    Other than that I like some of the ideas in the patch, but for now I find the current official patch more enjoyable simply because the AI is better.

  • #49
    5 years ago
    DarkSnipaDarkSnipa Posts: 1

    Having played the balance preview mod for couple of hours and tested the performance of some changed units in CCM, here are my thought towards parts of the balance mod with my reasons:

    General Change - Heavy Tanks rear armour

    It’s a understandable change where I agree with developer where some heavy tanks rear armour are too strong, however from the release patch notes I have noticed not all heavy tanks have its rear armour reduced, such as Wehrmacht’s Brummbar, Soviet’s ISU152,KV1,KV8 and British Churchill heavy tank’s rear armour remain unchanged. For me despite the fact some of these units are either weak from the start or nerfed to the ground thanks to earlier patches, however if this change is intend to balance all heavy tanks rear armour with slight differences due to varying cost then I would like to ask why some heavies are being ignored? Especially those which aren’t commander’s units and if it is meant to bring strategic diversity to every faction.

    Also after nerfing all heavies rear armour, what about the rear armour of British Comet tank? A medium tank like Panther with even better rear armour than most heavy tanks? Is this even intended or being selectively ignored? If this is unintentional please reduce the rear armour of Comet in line with other premier medium tanks/heavy tanks.

    General Change – Snipers – Soviet Sniper

    Again no objection here if its intend to bring more risks from using snipers, but I am sure some players like me would notice out of these changes Soviet sniper squad is the only sniper unit that received a health boost in this balance mod which contradicts with this change, despite the fact Soviet sniper squad has the longest weapon cooldown than its Wehr and British counterparts, but they are compensated with better survivability than other two sniper squads thanks to its 2men nature that allows more rooms for mistakes, I know some might argue that both British and Wehr snipers have 82 hp per model where they don’t get wiped from one mortar shell at full health, but looking at overall health of the squad Soviet sniper squad still has the highest overall health of 96 before mod is implemented, so I suggest Soviet Sniper health remain unchanged.

    Soviet – Penal Battalion
    As a dedicated Wehrmacht player I am in fact happy to see if the change the penal battalion would bring changes towards Soviet build orders and gameplays, however after a few games and tested their performance against both german and allies infantries which perform the similar roles as the Penal Battalion, I must say the change is not a little more radical, it is too radical and too revolutionary. As a 6 men anti-infantry squad which was originally designed to excel at medium to close range, with this balanced mod enabled now its able to:

    • Annihilate OKW Obersoldaten Squad w/o upgrade at long range when both are vet3; Tried to put both squad at close range with upgrades (Ober with stg44) Penal squad still won. Please note Obersoldaten squad takes 10 popcap, 400mp and tech to be deployable;
    • Reap OKW Fallschirmjager at long range when both are vet 3. Fallschirmjager will surely win when both units are fresh recruits but given the time Fallschirmjager is deployable in a real game Penal Battalion would be already vet1 or vet2;
    • Obliterate its friendly US Paratroopers at long range w/o upgrade when both are fresh recruits or max vet, given that US Paratroopers takes 9 pop, 380mp and it’s a commander unit who performs the same role as Penal Battalion when player has 3CP available;
    • Dominate all Wehrmacht core infantries since long range with or w/o vets due to the squishy squad size of Wehrmacht infantries has;
    • Perform similar role as the Shocktroops with no grenades and less durability, however Penal squad is not restricted to commanders nor CP and when upgraded it performs well against garrisoned units like or even better than Shocktroops, making Shocktroops less useful.

    The list goes on……

    Some of these results are ones I have tried myself using CCM and some the ones I found throughout different balance discussion in various sites. Don’t get me wrong Penal needs to be buffed since previously it was not doing its job well even at medium range, but judging from the current state, Penal troop’s stat should be readjusted to prevent it from over performing against infantries which have the same role, especially those which cost significantly more mp,popcap and restricted to commanders like the paratroopers I mentioned above. My suggestions to this matter are:
    • Readjust the bonus stat Penal Battalion receives from ‘Last man standing’ Ability, like reduced accuracy bonus from 4% to 3% since Penal Battalion already has one of the highest veteran bonus in accuracy among all infantries and received accuracy from 3% to 2% to make it less durable due to its increased damage output from its svt rifles;
    • Tweak the weapon accuracy from .7/.65/.45 to like .7/.6/.4 to prevent it from over performing against infantries who excel in long range;
    • Increase Vet requirements, especially between vet2 and vet 3 since +60% accuracy for an unit with semi-automatic weapon and high base accuracy is too strong, other units using semi-automatic weapons like rifleman receives far less accuracy bonus from vet up or grenadiers with g43s which only get at best 40% accuracy bonus.
    • Rework on Penal Squad’s veteran bonus, preferably reducing its accuracy bonus from vet 2 and 3.

    OKW – Volksgrenadier upgrade

    As someone who is used to grenadier without Panzerschrecks I am fine with the removal of Panzershrecks from Volksgrenadiers since Wehrmacht will only get panzershrecks with Panzergrenadiers who is an elite infantry squad, but what I found with this change isn’t going to solve the volks blob or the strategic diversity problem with OKW, only the shreck blobs players been complaining about though. Here are my opinions and suggestions towards the change:

    • Despite the fact OKW starts with a mobile AT gun even with removal of Shrecks, but problem with rakenwerfer is the fact its slow targeting speed and short targeting range when ungarrisoned makes it hit fast moving allied armor a difficult job with poor reliability when even using it as a followup. One can always argue Volksgrenadier now gets panzerfaust in return to snare armor so stop whining but you see the issue with panzerfaust is like Wehr Grenadiers you need to get close enough to fire at those armors, but the cold reality is most of the time you either managed to fire a panzerfaust at the armor with great manpower bleed and only being realised you been baited or not managed to fire one and being kited to death by enemy armor. If someone is gonna say Allies Conscript AT grenade is like that too then please do yourself a favour check that conscript has oorah to speed up the process while Volksgrenadier has to walk all the way to fire one.

    • OKW is lacking specialised infantries with a role of anti armor, whether within the current tech tree or commander abilities,for me it seemed Volksgrenadier was made up to cover such weakness with the Panzershrecks at the cost of 90 muntions and its durability. However Allies players often complained about Panzershrecks overperforming compare to Allies bazookas where it will take 2 bazookas to have similar or slightly better performance of one shrecks and lose more anti infantry power in process, so ok for me a removal of Panzershreck upgrade is fair enough. To make things short though I personally prefer Volksgrenadier receive an alternative anti armor upgrade where they obtain 2 panzerbusche 39 at rifles at the cost of 70-80 muntions which have better penetration than other at rifles but less potency against enemy personnel compare to its counterparts would be great. Yes the volks blobs problem didn’t get solved in my suggestion but to be honest allies blobs are far stronger than axis blobs since they eventually come with dual lmgs in each squad.

    • Stg44 upgrade package is a great addition to Volksgrenadiers anti infantry capacities and now my Volks don’t get raped by allies infantry at close range, however stg44 held by Volks are taking inventory space like infrared stg44, I personally prefer stg44 doesn’t take inventory space or like others have suggested- only take 0.5 slot like Thompson. Alternatively Volksgrenadiers receive the mg34 lmg upgrade like Ober does for 70-80 munitons with weapon damage in line with other allies lmg (4-5) so Volksgrenadier is actually an infantry unit excel at long range combat than a unit which is trying to compete with rifleman at medium range.

    US – Captain and Major

    Change to Captain’s On me and Major are nice, but it is possible to make sure they can only use their skills when the captain and major are not dead like axis officers? Also Captain with no bazookas is too much of a nerf, instead of getting 2 bazookas Captain should just receive one for anti light armor purpose and the 2nd one can be acquired from weapon racks, like how lieutenant carries only one BAR now.

  • #50
    5 years ago
    Mr. TiMr. Ti Posts: 5
    edited May 2016

    Thank you for the patch! I am very pleased to see the long-awaited changes.
    I only have a few complaints about the OKW. I will be brief:

    • You removed panzerschreck and it's just amazing! But on the other hand OKW has now become difficult to cope with the technique of the Allies in the middle of the game. Bundle "puphen + panzerfaust" does not work well against fast medium tanks. However, this does not mean that volksgrenadiers should be returned panzerschreck.

    My suggestion:

    • Give the players for OKW means to deal with enemy tanks in the middle of the game. I propose to move yagdpanzer in T3 and Stuka zu Fuß put in its place in the T4.

    That's all from me)

  • #51
    5 years ago
    az244az244 Cracow, PolandPosts: 17
    edited May 2016

    What you think about upgrade for OKW's Mechanized Headquarters which would give to this HQ an ability of exchanging resources? This upgrade could be like retreat point upgrade of Battlegroup HQ, and it would make getting anti tank units easier. It also would make Mechanized Headquarters more attractive.

  • #52
    5 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    I'd think at LEAST that would have to be a doctrinal unlock. If not, then it should be T3.

  • #53
    5 years ago
    Vinyl41Vinyl41 PolandPosts: 18

    if relic created some sort of side tech for okw med and mech HQ moving the jp4 and p4 might be a fun idea - totaly dislike that currently all your armed units are stuck in flak HQ

  • #54
    5 years ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270
    edited May 2016

    I test firefly and lost power, maybe some small buff in acceleration/deceleration, but soon, perhaps more testings, can comment better.

    As the captain; the axis has atnades and grenades in their tech. USF has not atnades and has cost the investigation of grenades. Captain loses its identity without bazoocas, you should remain at the base, at least could do something with 2 bazoocas against the new HTflame.
    edit: revert changes on captain and give 2 bazookas

  • #55
    5 years ago
    javabaljavabal Posts: 88

    I played a lot and the patch, and I have two questions:
    1) Captain no longer useful at USF, I think you should give some weapon to be useful, perhaps a thompson, to be good short range.
    2) I worry a bit how expensive it is still unlock the Captain, as he now does not have bazzokas, it might be cheaper (because what unlocking is not very relevant), a serious part a way that the USF obtain an AT more early in the game.

  • #56
    5 years ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434

    Rear armour nerfs are a bit much. Especially when some allied tanks have not been affected at all... At the moment it's just a nerf for axis players.

  • #57
    5 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855
    1. Penal buff works well
    2. Volks are now anti-infantry beasts, I hope that balances ok, probably over with the penal buffs
    3. 17pdr really needs a pop decrease
    4. The 60mm mortar is so innacurate it cannot reliably hit bunkers or MG teams, which really limits usefulness.
    5. buffed UC works great
    6. Churchill needs a buff as it's still pretty useless.
  • #58
    5 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    @MCMartel said:
    1. Penal buff works well
    2. Volks are now anti-infantry beasts, I hope that balances ok, probably over with the penal buffs
    3. 17pdr really needs a pop decrease
    4. The 60mm mortar is so innacurate it cannot reliably hit bunkers or MG teams, which really limits usefulness.
    5. buffed UC works great
    6. Churchill needs a buff as it's still pretty useless.

    Kindly stick to what is being changed. It is where specifically laid out in the rules for the thread.

  • #59
    5 years ago
    bingo12345bingo12345 Posts: 100
    edited May 2016
    1. penal's vet need to be adjusted (effectiveness and experience cap). this makes penal somewhat overperform.
    2. penals base weapon stats are fine with this mod. penal is stronger rifle man squad now as 300 mp cost and tech cost and timing.

    do not nerf penals base weapon, only their vet need adjustment. if you nerf penal's base weapon, penals would be expensive and useless unit.

  • #60
    5 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    Please follow the rules of the thread.

  • #61
    5 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948
    edited May 2016

    Volks' StGs take up both weapon slots, which sort of makes the upgrade unattractive if you want them to be more versatile. Making it take up zero slots like Panzerfusiliers and Jaegers would be nice.
    There's a workaround on this in that you just pick up two weapons before you upgrade, but that's either a big or an exploit. IMO they should just not take up slots, the only OKW unit that has droppable weapons is Obers so there is literally zero change for an OKW player to get AT infantry without trying to hunt down bazooka men or tailing an Ostheer ally's Panzergrenadiers.
    Is the idea behind the change is to not give OKW any handheld AT? Because that's the real consequence. If the issue was Volksblob then maybe Volks just need to have vet/ stats nerfed more?

    EDIT: Correction, the workaround mentioned only works if you pick up one weapon; picking up a second locks out the StG upgrade. Likely a bug, but it also exacerbates the issue.

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