Relic Balance Preview Mod Feedback

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Comments

  • #62
    4 years ago

    The removal of the panzershrek upgrade from volksgrenadier was an enormous mistake. I'm sure the goal was to discourage volks "blobs" and help diversify the units used in the OKW roster, but volks were fielded in large numbers only by necessity. With the option of only one AT weapon/squad (the only unit I can think of that suffers this bizarre design choice), to do the work of a single panzergrenadier you were forced to build 2 volks. If you want to encourage diversity in the OKW roster, by all means keep the new stg-44 upgrade option (which I may point out effectively makes volks sturmpioneer that can't fix things) but ALSO keep the panzershrek option, maybe even allow volks to gasp purchase the AT upgrade twice! This would put them in a similar space to grenadiers from the first CoH. I would bet good money you'd see fewer blobs of volks, as the upgrades (though expensive) allow individual squads to become specialized to any one battlefield role and this frees up manpower for players to use on support units. If you have to take away the panzerfaust ability to keep it balanced, be my guest.

  • #63
    4 years ago
    JuggerJugger ZürichPosts: 1

    So here are my thoughts on the patch. the problem with the VG was never that they could get a shrek, it was much more the fact that only one unit in the game is worse than it namely con. VG were also the only unit that was cost effective in the arsenal of okw, and had no real role. only the best of the unit was brought out at the end, a cheap occurring in masses units which alone possessed no real fighting force. but this compensated by their mass. I myself think it would be better wen VG unit would be a proper anti vehicle so that can be translated later no t0 unit, rather a t1 unit 2 shreck gets, and little harm soldiers. This unit must of course cost more 360 mp and 30 fuel or 120 ammo. so the unit would no longer be built in masses and would not force the storm pio in a strange role.

  • #64
    4 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    @godemperor69 said:
    The removal of the panzershrek upgrade from volksgrenadier was an enormous mistake. I'm sure the goal was to discourage volks "blobs" and help diversify the units used in the OKW roster, but volks were fielded in large numbers only by necessity. With the option of only one AT weapon/squad (the only unit I can think of that suffers this bizarre design choice), to do the work of a single panzergrenadier you were forced to build 2 volks. If you want to encourage diversity in the OKW roster, by all means keep the new stg-44 upgrade option (which I may point out effectively makes volks sturmpioneer that can't fix things) but ALSO keep the panzershrek option, maybe even allow volks to gasp purchase the AT upgrade twice!

    You do have a point, if reverse psychology is used, giving Volks more AT might cut down on blobbing. I'd happily trade durability for increased AT firepower.

  • #65
    4 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    (Apologies for not having read the post rules closely enough)
    1. For strategic diversity, shrek removal has been great, I'm finding myself actually using raketenwerfers, which is practically a first in many months.
    2. 60mm mortar has accuracy issues to the point where it cannot hit MG teams or bunkers, negating much of it's usefulness in promoting strategic diversity
    3. Penals are finally having a job in the game, that's working great, I don't know what people are t alking about though, they don't overperform as they are still very fragile.
    4. I don't think the decrease in flamethrower cost to the halftrack is enough of a buff, I still haven't bothered using it more than once, and that was to test the flamethrower.
    5. Land mattress seems to be spammed less, and features a little less in the infantry heavy earlier game, so that fix seems fine.
    6. UC buffs have been great, I, for basically the first time, found myself using the vickers upgrade, and using the UC more often, great increase to strategic diversity.
    7. I, again for the first time in months, found myself building an M2, now I can finally hold a point without feeling like I've completely wasted a unit build, and AP rounds really go a long way to helping with AT for that tech tier, which was way too vulnerable to light vehicles.
    8. I found myself building SU-85's when I haven't for quite sometime, that unit works now, before I'd only used su-76's and doctrinal vehicles for AT purposes.
    9. I used t-34/76's a bit more as the machinegun seems to help, and the lowered mp cost helps some too, so I think that worked.
    10. The decrease in power of bazookas and shreks against infantry has been great, I'm no longer being RNG sniped by supposed AT squads.
    11. This has come up less than i'd though,but, so far, the strategy of grenading an MG while under supression has substantially dropped off, so that worked.
    12. Infantry spawning at their buildings has definitely helped speed up early game, which was pretty dull before.
    13. I used major artillery for what I think is the first time ever, the cost was far too high before so that definitely helped.

  • #66
    4 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    Moving shrecks to a unit would totally prevent volks blobbing. Since there is zero handheld AT, the only other option is aggressive infantry gameplay...which will require volks blobbing, and the StG upgrade fills this nicely. While we're glad that volksblobbing with shrecks is gone, it is simply replaced by volksblob with StGs, and with lower munitions cost as well as improved AI, this means the problem may actually worsen. Not so much change in strategic diversity but simply making one strategy attractive while making another unattractive. Unfortunately, what's not changed at all is the Volks blob, certainly not since you can just spam fausts. I find Volks blobbing just as easy or effective as I've tried it before, and with identical drawbacks. As far as I am concerned, nothing good came out of the change.
    Moving Panzerscrehck to a different unit or even just making it a T3 unlock, hence two trucks instead of one, may well solve the problem- until then you got vanilla volks running around not being very effective in anything except meatshield and salvage. There is no point blobbing if you cannot have effective weapons for them, this was why they are so effective before and why they are still effective now. Schrecks for Volks was the symptom, but not the illness.
    I find Racketenwerfers rather perform very poorly and far more fragile than I expected, but I don't know if it's due to bug or not, they'd just stare at a tank straight in its face and naturally get ripped, and if you lose the crew you do not have the Soviets' advantage of merging squads, at least that's one advantage Conscripts offer to make up for lack of handheld AT (in addition to halftracks to provide mobile reinforcement).

  • #67
    4 years ago
    ColonelRadecColonelRa… Posts: 52
    edited May 2016

    Hello world!
    Here is my feedback of the patch.

    OKW

    -Volks: I love the change, like most of the people, but comes with problems. Stgs are cool and fun to use, however they are over performing in anti-inf. I did 15k of damage only against inf and vs humans players(which were decent players) they had bars and brens and still the volks were better. They are very effective in mid and close range.

    Solution: I suggest reducing the damage of the stgs(either the burst duration) or adjust the vet bonuses like the 5, that increases the rate of fire. Remember that this unit is really good without them, since their rifles have really high damage and the vet bonuses. Also they should only take 1 weapon space(if you guys decide to leave em op, well forget this then).

    -MG34: Its a great addition, nevertheless needs adjustment. Like someone said it needs to pin inf. Maybe a slower rate than the 42.

    -MG42: I find it kinda of unnecessary, since now we have the 34 as standard. Also scares me that they can spam em(34 and 42s all over the place!). Replace them with a combat package to the volks, an option to pick something else other than the stgs, like 1 lmg 34 or 2 g43s rifles. An alternative can also be given to them like the ability to repair.

    -AT: Well the only option you have is to steal an allied AT since with all honesty the raketen is really bad. It has bad range, survivabilty, clumsy, the list goes on. The other option would be to make a puma which isn't a bad idea, but it means you are going to need more than one. Because its expensive to make mechanize hq and a long wait for t4.

    Solution: The raketen needs a buff, i recommend to increase its range, aim time decreased, remove cloak, add it back to vet 1 and remove the ability to move faster while cloak. Also when retreating to be instant. Some dude suggested to move the stuka from t3 and exchange it for the JP in t4, on paper it doesn't sound so bad.

    Soviets

    -Penals: The new terminators, the only ones that can kill the volks with stgs. They needed the buff, on the other hand now they excel. Sure they are squishy but now they wipe everything without the package. I think you should revert the damage of the rifles. Also reduce slightly the buff of accuracy, since now they have the new ability and the bonus they get from vet.

    -T34: I advice to tone down a little the buffs and add a slight increase in AP when near. The soviets already have a lot of anti-inf.

    -Is2 & SU85: Both adjustments are sweet.

    -Sniper: It wasn't needed, they are already hard to kill since they have camouflage and they are 2.

    Werh

    Now the brummbar can see some use, still the faction needs adjustment(like the scout car price).

    USF

    The new changes are great, i honestly think the captain doesn't need the bazooka(smgs and bazookas don't mix). Overall the changes are very good, now their problem is with the tech tree, its kinda weird. I still think that the HMG and AT should be on the same tree.

    UKF

    -Firefly: Axis tanks worst nightmare. The stun effect of the tulips is way too effective, lost a panther in seconds. 2 fireflies hit me and then they send AT to finish it off, i cant react since I'm stunned, easy kill. My recommendation is to revert the tulips, honestly they were fine, you could react to them, they weren't instant killers. The decrease in reload is nice so leave it be.

    All the adjustment in the faction are awesome, yet the UKF still has problem in early and mid versus mobile armor(specially the scout car dilemma). Because if you don't pick AEC or tank hunters, well your done for against pro players who exploit this. Sure you have bofors(most players ignore them or use mortars, making this one a very risky choice), PIATs(good look hitting a moving target), pro players ignore your defenses and head for the caps, leaving you with no ammo for mines(they explode with inf, so not a high chance to hit the armor) and the AT gun is expensive.Mortars and snipers are deadly versus this faction considering they weren't design to be mobile. Sincerely for me they are still one of the factions with most exploits.

    Conclusion

    All the update is really good, its a step in the right direction. But like i said there are still issues that need a look at. I know with time we will have a solid balanced game if you guys keep doing this events with the community. I hope this feed will be helpful.

  • #68
    4 years ago
    Cpt_Killsteal24Cpt_Kills… Posts: 5
    edited May 2016

    I've only been playing the USF so far, and I love most of the changes. The mortar is a nice counter to German arty, and the armor piercing rounds for the HMG have been fantastic. My only complaint about the changes is that the Captain has no bazookas without purchasing them. While I do agree that 2 bazookas was overpowered and countered the early armor too easily (Taking out a Luchs with only a Captain is just a bit OP), I think that by taking away the bazooka, it takes away from the necessity of keeping the Captain alive. Most USF players that I've met, and myself included, always purchase the grenade upgrade at the start of the match, and ignore the bazooka upgrade because it slows you down too much at the beginning of the game (40 fuel for both upgrades is a large setback). For this reason, I would rely on the Captain to provide mobile support against lighter vehicles (i.e. Scout Cars, Halftracks, etc.), and use the AT gun for heavier tanks. But not having the bazookas already, would make me only want to get my Captain for the AT guns, and after that I couldn't care less if he died. That being said, I believe that replacing one of the bazookas with another Thompson would make him more of a well rounded unit, without being too strong against light tanks. The bazooka gives you support against light armor, while an anti-infantry/air tank like the Luchs would still destroy you. The extra Thompson would make the unit slightly more powerful against infantry, but hard hitting units like the Sturmpioneer would still defeat you relatively quickly. I believe that doing this would be a much better change to the Captain, rather than removing the bazooka all together. It would balance out the Captain much more, and make him a more viable unit in the end.

  • #69
    4 years ago
    VonManteuffelVonManteu… Posts: 159

    Don't know if anybody already said that, but those feedbacks are way too long for my short and very important time :#

    • Stg44 for Volks are great; finally a good way to deal with GI and IS blobs
    • Panzerfaust feels also fine; OKW has a snare at last
    • all ally tweaks feel great so far; one of the best balance updates (Thank you miragefla!)

    BUT:

    • Panzershrek is missing; Puppies are too inaccurate versus light vehicles (50% miss) and Panzerfaust range is too short; OKW needs an infantry anti tank unit, especially in late game now with heavy SU85 and better Firefly; Püppchen are also too fragile versus AOE and flame weapons

    SUGGESTION:

    • Give Sturmpios a Panzershrek upgrade; Sturmpios are not that important anymore for short/mid range due to Volks; in late game Sturmpios are always used to repair cause their worse AI capability in comparrison to Volks or Obers; So a Shrek upgrade would make them very usefull in mid and especially in late game; theyre very expensive (300mp) and not spam-able;

    So where is the problem? ;)

  • #70
    4 years ago
    VokilVokil Posts: 4
    edited May 2016

    @VonManteuffel said:
    Don't know if anybody already said that, but those feedbacks are way too long for my short and very important time :#

    • Stg44 for Volks are great; finally a good way to deal with GI and IS blobs
    • Panzerfaust feels also fine; OKW has a snare at last
    • all ally tweaks feel great so far; one of the best balance updates (Thank you miragefla!)

    BUT:

    • Panzershrek is missing; Puppies are too inaccurate versus light vehicles (50% miss) and Panzerfaust range is too short; OKW needs an infantry anti tank unit, especially in late game now with heavy SU85 and better Firefly; Püppchen are also too fragile versus AOE and flame weapons

    SUGGESTION:

    • Give Sturmpios a Panzershrek upgrade; Sturmpios are not that important anymore for short/mid range due to Volks; in late game Sturmpios are always used to repair cause their worse AI capability in comparrison to Volks or Obers; So a Shrek upgrade would make them very usefull in mid and especially in late game; theyre very expensive (300mp) and not spam-able;

    So where is the problem? ;)

    This is good idea and fair for all factions. Still some changes to the Panzerschreck upgrade can be implemented:
    1. Let Sturmpioneers be able to upgrade with package of 2 Panzerschrecks for 180 munitions. This will result in delay of those capabilities and let only one squad have them while the game is in early phase. This will give variety to OKW and not leave this faction in situation where they can't respond adequately to light vehicle spam. Also 2 Panzerschrecks will decrease the AI abilities of this unit thus forcing the player to decide - SP for AT or AI and do I need Panzerschreck or I will use only Panzerfausts+Rakettenwerfer because the munitions can't be enough for everything.
    2. Make it so always when the SP squad gets to one model a Panzerschreck is dropped. This will result in less aggressive play with the unit as AT asset and be viable only versus light vehicles which is the whole point of Panzerschreck anyway. This will add variety also because you may decide not to upgrade your Volksgrenadiers (less AI) in order to obtain lost Panzerschreks or you will upgrade them but be unable to retrieve those weapons and in 1v1 this will mean the enemy will have them. SP will be able to buy 2nd Panzerschreck again for 90 munitions. Losing the squad will result only in 1 Panzerschreck being dropped.
    3. Sturmpioneers are squad of 4 models and their survivability is much lower than that of Volksgrenadiers. Still if those changes are implemented they may have price increase to 320 MP thus making spam utterly unviable. In certain situations you may upgrade two such units and try to ambush tank destroyers but one Katyusha or AVRE will lead to the loss of 640 MP 360 Munitions and 2 Panzerschrecks taken by the enemy.

    The above is based on playing the mod for several hours and also watching games between players using the same mod which shows serious weakness of OKW to deal with light vehicles. Also implementing such changes will add diversity while at the same time discourage overproduction of certain unit.

    Please excuse me if my English is not perfect but this is not my mother tongue.

  • #71
    4 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,333 mod

    Please do not start a historical debate in this thread. I cleared up a few posts.

  • #72
    4 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    Not sure if a bug, but I noticed in one game where my Raketen just stared at a tank that was rather close to its position: for almost 30 seconds the tank twisted and turned while remaining in arc of fire, but the Raketen did not shoot. Eventually the tank zeroed its turret and wiped the crew.

    I'm not sure if its a bug since I've seen some other instances where the Rak performed normally, re it shoots. But it wasn't like the crewmen were stuck somewhere or anything, they just stared at the tank like it was some bellydancer

  • #73
    4 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    The massive hissy fit that OKW people have been throwing is proof that shrek removal was needed for strategic diversity, for a faction with so many great AT options (tier 0 at gun, puma, panther, the best TD in the game and stock heavies) the fact that everyone relied on shrek spam shows that this was needed for any kind of strategic diversity.

  • #74
    4 years ago
    Vinyl41Vinyl41 PolandPosts: 18
    edited May 2016

    posting some observations
    new mines are not that great - they feel unreliable and not so rewarding
    okw withour shreks got huge problems vs fast vehicles and no the raketen wont cut it if the target is smt more then a stuart ( lacks range and damage, and it wont sometimes shoot at the target by itself even with vehicle priority, and it tends to hit ground often - elevation problems )
    okw tech feels unrewarding now - going med hq leaves you stuck with a medicore mg,an option to dump some fuel for healing >_> and leaves you wide open to agresive vehicle plays cause you have rakatens only ... that sucks often, mech feels like the go to tech, puma is a godsend so often sadly it sucks vs tanks unless in pairs but then it got this wonderful pathfinding where it will keep spinning most of the time and 2 pumas mean no tank till very late game
    now to the alies
    the ally blobs are still there ..... , ally arty spam still is a pain to deal with, emplacement play still broken on keypoints
    on a side note - nerf volks to 4 man and keep the upgrades separate ( stg+ snare and shrek and no snare ) maybe slap some 10-20mp cost extra

  • #75
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited May 2016

    USF
    57mm ATG

    The penetration is fine if the Take aim change stays, but imo the "take aim" change is a bad one. Now 57mm has to spend mu 2 times abilities to effective and that is actually a nerf since opponet will simply withdreaw for the duration of the abilites and attack during cooldown leaving the 57mm weaker...

    The accuracy change is unnecessary with a Range of 70 having 100% change to hit most axis heavier at that range is not needed.

    M2HB HMG Team
    Penetration increase is fine but AP round at vet 0 is not. The MH2B has already one of the highest DPS so +25% damage turns it into a killer of infantries and there is actually no need for 2 abilities for the gun. AP round can become a vet 1 ability increasing penetration only (or suppression also) there is no need for more DMG...

    M36 Jackson
    As pointed out by firesparks this change will make the unit over perform especially in vet 2 when it will be able to spot, hit and penetrate axis armor out side of their range. (Panther 50, stug 50, tiger king tiger 45...). Thing become even worse when using the "combined arms" ability with the M-36 acting like a scout vehicles rather than a TD, with t total sight range 451.31.35=79 and a range of 65.

    M8 Motor Carriage
    As pointed out by firesparks the AOE increase seem to be to much. The problem with the current changes are that M-36 will be able to spot and protect the M8 while the M8 will be able to counter paks with 80 units range the only stock unit that can much the range of the M-36...Otheer and OKW not using JP will be out ranged and outsighted...

    Major
    The major artillery has been simply over buffed. For a cheap stock unit it perform better than doctrinal artillery that require a unit like the I&R and the elite armor artillery while being cheap.

    In addition with a recon plane and a range of 60 major can use this arty without coming into range of enemy weapons.

    Lastly the cheap price to replace the major can lead into "kamikaze" major attacks.

    Having a stock unit that can call in off map artillery with little counters is actually bad design.

    Captain
    I would suggest to try coming with 1 bazooka first.
    On me is a solid change
    The captain as squad is not worth 320 MP if it comes with no weapon and the price to replace him should go down.

    60mm Mortar
    Adding a no tech mortar to USF is actually bad imo. USF riflemen are balanced because they have to be aggressive. If USF get a mortar with no tech cost they will be able to defend their position and wait for the mortar to work while axis early infantry is simply designed to fight against riflemen in cover in mid to close ranges.

    If USF actually need a mortar it should come with some tech cost. The unit also seem to over perform since am able to get it to vet 3 early in most of the games I play.

    One approach would be to reduce the price of the grenades upgrade to 150 15, remove smoke grenades for USF riflemen and replace it with the unlock for the mortar.

  • #76
    4 years ago
    SAS CommanderSAS Comma… Rule Britannia Posts: 55

    I play the brits heavily

    The land mattress CANNOT have that late a game entry, it is a slow moving long reloading item that is meant as you guys said yourselves 'a counter for blobs'
    at 8 CP into a game, blobs have either already dominated and won the game, or there are tanks instead. Leave it at 5 CP, thats what its meant to be at, so leave it....

    I also dislike the veterancy increased need. The infantry section is notoriously weak and only gets good after it starts to get veterancy, you are eliminating this and making them even weaker, either buff their accuracy/survival or leave them as they were.

    Firefly, sexton, universal carrier I am happy with.
    Snipers okay and the tank hunting section is a welcome improvement.

    To all whom say 'brits are OP' and cry constantly about it, they are almost hopeless at offence, but are amazing at defense, which is their whole purpose, man up and try a tactic that works, throwing infantry at them just makes them stronger

  • #77
    4 years ago
    Mr_RuinMr_Ruin Posts: 92

    60mm mortar is a very good addition, it could use more accuracy, but I really like the idea.

    Volks no matter what you do with them will be problematic. I like the new Stg improvement, it breaks former no need for any other AT except them and later tanks, but now other two non doctrinal units are mostly useless.
    Sturmers are good for repairing and pack quite a punch at beginning of the match but later turn into a drain of manpower if you lose them, and Obers are way too late and why buy them if you can just overrun everything with Volks.

    Having MG34 in base is great cause you are not shoehorned into some commander who gets them on CP1. ome aprox at time of first CP so I think that is good.

    Penals are close combat beasts, but costly, so you cannot just spam them, so I like them a lot.

    Brits are much faster out of the gate, maybe will be a problem with their first unit being quite potent, but it seems ok.

    All around a good patch, imo.

  • #78
    4 years ago
    KamowaKamowa Posts: 1

    I don't like that stacking is going away, it was one of the main reasons i keep playing, which was to earn triple stacking and intentionally use certian units in a specific match. I would like to see more bullitins and even ones that work together (like the unique sets in Diablo). The strategic aspect of strong bullitins can be planned for as you know what each player is bringing into the match so you can plan you in game strategy accordingly.

    summary:
    1. keep stacking
    2. more bullitins
    3. bullitins have more impact so they effect gameplay and create dynamic play (same reasoning as taking away panzershreks from okw, to create dynamic builds and play)

  • #79
    4 years ago
    TheBorgTheBorg Posts: 3

    @PolarLights said:
    Removal of panzershreck leaves a gaping hole in Okw vs any sort of armor. Raketenwerfer suffers from line of sight/setup/lack of range/accuracy/no protection from tank fire. A single burst from the British Centaur can decrew the gun. It was heartening to see tourney pros lose Raks, then immediately have them stolen as once you grab them; you just hit the retreat button for the easy steal (I was wondering if I was just terrible, but nope its the Raks!)
    Removing shrecks did not stop volk blobbing for the mere reason there is no compelling infantry to complement volks. Strums and Obers both still suffer from massive durability/manpower bleed/timing/utility problems (sturms have to do far too much and obers can do far too little).

    Why does a fixation sit on the OKW Shrek removal? Dozens of posts that think that they have absolutely no chance against armor. If I remember correctly the the OKW faction comes with a tier 0 at gun, one of the cheapest in the game, with the ability to penetrate almost all the armor in the game. It can also camouflage. Russians don't get anti-tank infantry unless it is a callin, and they are arguably the best preforming allied faction in the patch now.

    OKW gets the heaviest armor in the game, the cheapest and most spamable AT gun (On spawn truck) and has the easiest time getting out one of two of the light tanks in the game before the match hits the eight minute mark.

    Suggesting that the PanzerShreks be given to the strumpioneers is also completely insane, the unit already has so many utilities and abilities, adding AT to the list would make it the /most/ versatile unit in the game when no other unit holds the crown so far as a Engineer squad.

    No, no. I think the new patch works just fine in fixing quite a few problems, first being that anti-tank infantry isn't a necessity if you have mainline infantry that can destroy engines and a AT gun that can finish it off. It just sounds like a learn to play issue.

  • #80
    4 years ago

    Play a couple of matches ran into a bug (I hope) where the volks lost the ability to use the panzerfaust.....not sure why it may have something to do with the squad member dying while firing I'm pouring over my replay to check

  • #81
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited May 2016

    WEHRMACHT
    251 Flame Half-Track

    The changes in aim time and veterancy 3 are solid. Upgrade only necessary if the flamer upgrade is delayed.

    Support Armour Korp
    Instead of making 4 buildings built more affordable allowing T3 or T4 built would increase "diversity". That can be achieved my moving Brummbar to T3 and Ostwind to T4.

    Brummbar
    Reload veterancy and heavy crush are good changes.

    AOE increase probably to much. Cost decrease neutral.

    The unit will probably be a worse spot than it was before because it lost stun on deflection can be completely shut down m35 and Su-85.

    The unit has to little range and is too slow to be used offensively...out ranged by 20 from ATG, M36 SU-85 has to move 20+20=40 to come in range to fire...
    Suggestions:
    The unit needs to be able to fire so it needs one or more of the following: more range, better mobility/speed, more HP, more frontal armor, coming earlier, a vet 0 barrage ability.

    In addition the it should have some bonus vs fortifications and act a counter to UKF emplacements.

    Heavy Panzer Korp
    This will probably lead people to skip T3 for T4...

    Panzer IV Command Tank
    Decent change on aura, but the unit need different vet bonuses. The aura should start weaker and progress with the veterancy.

    Pioneers
    sandbags is solid change.

  • #82
    4 years ago
    UeshibaUeshiba Posts: 3

    I played this mod for a while, to me the OKW need just a better way to obtain more FUEL, VS all other faction you'll miss AT power due to this, not for the "noMoreVolksSpam" thing.

    Today i did a game against a British friend, there was no way to counter his tanks, Raketen does not penetrate most of the time and in late game you do not have enough tanks to counter him, even if you had the map controll ever since.

    Recycle is not enough to fill that gap.

    Also, Obersoldaten are still useless to me, 400mp + upgrade and they feel weak as hell even on longrange.

    As Soviet against OKW you feel way more confortable and you can now abuse t34 to map controll, not for t34 OPness, but for the lack of OKW counters, you'll end have more t34 than his Raketen.

    Penal Battalion now are a good viable option to t2, paired with Guard Rifles squads, but prolly just a little OP on vet3 compared to cost

    As USF i still feel overall good against every faction, just TOO GOOD against OKW.

  • #83
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    Is it possible to have a separate thread with all the changes that are currently in affect in the patch? Going thru the changes to figure out what currently is valid is bit confusing...

  • #84
    4 years ago
    rshunter313rshunter3… Posts: 10
    edited May 2016
    • t-34 - MP change wasn't needed, the coax reduction was a good change. Increase near pen slightly might make it more viable late game.
    • Jackson - change was a fair change 10/10
    • Goliath - may be over performing vs emplacements. I mean I feel like there are already so many counters. + the 5x damage seems a little over the top and unforgiving.
    • Battlegroup - meds seem a little over the top. Maybe an equal balance would be at 6-7. Would rather see forward HQ mixed with medics for a 250mp cost with reduced healing at 6.
    • Landmattress 8 CP's still seem a little high 7 would be a good equal ground
    • Volks STGs might need toned down slightly.
  • #85
    4 years ago
    SAS CommanderSAS Comma… Rule Britannia Posts: 55

    @rshunter313 said:

    • t-34 - MP change wasn't needed, the coax reduction was a good change. Increase near pen slightly might make it more viable late game.
    • Jackson - change was a fair change 10/10
    • Goliath - may be over performing vs emplacements. I mean I feel like there are already so many counters. + the 5x damage seems a little over the top and unforgiving.
    • Battlegroup - meds seem a little over the top. Maybe an equal balance would be at 6-7. Would rather see forward HQ mixed with medics for a 250mp cost with reduced healing at 6.
    • Landmattress 8 CP's still seem a little high 7 would be a good equal ground
    • Volks STGs might need toned down slightly.

    on landmatress's 7 is still too late, its meant to counter blobs, its barely arrives at the last minute of that, it needs to remain as it was

  • #86
    4 years ago
    GeneralsGentlemenGeneralsG… Perth, AustraliaPosts: 17
    edited May 2016

    It's nice that OKW are getting some form of infantry-based AT back, but the Sturmpioneer doesn't seem like a good option choice since they will now be overburdened with too much utility. Sturmpioneers already are close combat infantry, repairers, salvagers, mine sweepers, can plant mines and lay barbed wire and fortifications. Throw in Panzershreks on top of that and it's too much for a single squad. I assume it's going to be a single Panzershrek, which isn't enough to really achieve much. The single Panzer Shrek worked (And then was a problem) on Volks because you would get 3-4 of them and were easily spammable until critical mass because Volks are cheap, durable 5 man squads, whilst Shreks wasn't much of a damage nerf against infantry because of how often they would wipe a model. (which is now nerfed)

    Giving Sturmpioneers a single Shrek is going to be underwhelming, they're an expensive and fragile squad for a single Shrek, dealing with Light vehicles in the mid game isn't neccesarily a problem because of Panzerfausts on Volks for the snare combined and the buffed Raketen is strong, (maybe just needs more durable crew), just like Wehrmacht deal with light vehicles with Grenadier Fausts and Paks. Then a single shrek on Sturmpioners won't have enough firepower for the cost and durability to scale into late game against tank destroyers and medium tanks. Alternatively, giving Sturmpioneers double shreks would probably be too potent for a 300mp squad with all that utility.

    I think a much better implementation would be to give Obersoldaten the option to upgrade to Double Shreks instead of the LMG. They are expensive 4 man squads, that would lack anti infantry with no LMG and only 2 rifles, so they're certainly not going to be over powered, just like Panzer Grenadiers, but it'll give OKW a mobile and yet potent Infantry Based AT to deal with the newly buffed Allied Tank Destroyers, which is where OKW can suffer from without Shreks. It could even be a good idea to move Obers onto the Battlegroup HQ, but then lock the LMG upgrade behind the Panzer Headquarters. That way the double Shreks would be accessible sooner and would give more flexibility in terms of unit compositions and strategy.

    Ultimately, giving a Shrek to Sturmpioneers will be piling on far too much utility for a single squad, compared to Obers which are a one dimensional unit that would definitely benefit from the utility, whilst providing a platform with double Shreks that would be better balanced and have better scaling against Allied Tank Destroyers.

    -Edit: Would need to adjust the suppressive fire at vet 4 on Obers. But that's an awful bonus that shouldn't exist anyway in favour of something else.

  • #87
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited May 2016

    Since the M-36 sight bonus has been nerfed a similar change should imo apply to SU-85. With the increased accuracy and penetration the combination of trucking and "focus sight" increases the sight of vehicles to a spotting scope Elephant.

    Suggestion:
    Replace the ability trucking with something else. Imo one can tone down the accuracy and penetration at vet 0, make "focus sight" a vet 1 ability that apart from sight changes increases accuracy and penetration. Alternatively town down accuracy and penetration and introduce "HEAT" shell that do 50% deflection damage even when not penetrating.

  • #88
    4 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    Remember to only discuss the changes made to the balance preview. Anythign beyond that and you'll have to make your own thread.

  • #89
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited May 2016

    OKW

    Battlegroup Headquarters
    Mechanized Headquarters

    Change to Mechanized is solid, the change to B.H. is not. With a total cost for 100 (15)+200 (25)+ 100(15) = 400 (55) healing for OKW becomes the most expensive healing in game...add to this 300 for FRP and the truck cost 700 (55) which makes risking a T1 with a frontal positioning not worth it.

    Suggestion:
    1)Make all set up trucks have less HP and armor with the 100 (15) upgrade buffing their HP armor. This changes allows the player to decided how much he want to invest to forward positioning. The AA gun of the T3 can be toned down and buffed when the truck is upgraded.
    2)Combine FRP and medics in one upgrade costing 300 (15). This change aims to make the upgrade to make more sense since medic without FRP and vice versa make little sense.
    3)Allow medics to purchased at base for 100 (15), if need unlocked only after T1 has been built. This changes aims to make replacing a lost T1 unnecessary since the cost for getting healing for OKW is simply too high.

    Faster healing my not be necessary if this changes go thru.

    Volksgrenadier
    The decision to remove P.S. might work but the StG 44 implementation is bad for the same reason the Penal implimation is bad. Having units stock units with lots of HP and a rather flat DPS profile make relative positioning less effective and upset the asymmetrical balance of OKW/Werh being good at long range and SU/USF being good at mid to close. That becomes even worse with the introduction of HMG-34. A HMG-34 supported by ST VG will be allot harder to counter even when flanked because the VG has enough close/mid DPS too counter the flanking unit. If VG need a upgrade that should be a weapon that increase the long range DPS.

    MG34 HMG Team
    The increased price makes sense with the new stats, but the introduction of HMG is questionable especially combined with the ST 44 for volks as explained previously.

    MG 42 HMG Team
    Little point in the HMG42 that need a new voice when called in.
    Suggestion:
    Replace with a doctrinal mortar.

    Goliath
    Although the change is not bad I doubt that a Goliath can drive to an emplacement without being blown up from small arm fire.
    Suggestion:
    Completely redesigning from an anti blob tool to an anti fortification device. Make it faster, more durable to small arm fire, remove the cloak and tone the damage vs infantry. Increase damage vs garrison buildings and emplacements.

    Raketenwerfer
    The change to RW is good but probably not enough. The unit take too long to fire especially when in garrison, vet bonuses or focuses only to cloaked RW, UKF tank commanders negate cloak, takes to long to turn and retreat, can be pinned.

    Suggestions:
    Since the it can be pinned RW should become more effective when in garrison or trench.
    1)Improve time to fire when in garrison so it is harder to circle strafe with impunity
    2)give trench 360 firing for RW
    3)increase range when in garrison, via veterancy if needed.
    4) give vet bonuses to RW in garrison.
    5)Fix retreat plan...

    Sturmpioneers
    PS to S.P. is bad for the same reason weapon upgrades to R.E. and RO.E are bad. Engineer type unit have to much utility and should not replace mainline infantry. In addition with the high veterancy they can repair tank too fast allowing them to return in the field too fast...Imo SP should be redesigned if this is to work.

    Suggestions:
    1) Replace 2 STG with 2 K98 and decrease price to 280. This change aim to lower the AI of the unit so that is it can not perform all the roles.
    2) Remove the ability to repair from the unit or greatly decrease repair speed, but keep building options and allow them to cut wire, since it still a engineer type unit. This change aim at reducing the utility of the unit. Change vet 2 vet bonuses and vet 5 vet bonuses with combat stat.
    3) Offer 2 stock upgrade (minesweepers, PS) and 1 doctrinal (flamer) that are mutually exclusive and replace 1 of the ST 44. Minesweepers now allow SP to repair, adds the live veterancy bonuses and give a small amount of experience when the unit repairs. This change aim at creating to 2 different paths for SP either the role of a fighting unit with a weapon upgrade or the role of repair unit.

    Without these change SP will simply have too much utility and will be spammed.

  • #90
    4 years ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 531

    as i tried the IS-2 tank i feel it needs a bit of buff in reload speed or damage or range i dont know whats for sure but needs a bit of buff

  • #91
    4 years ago
    Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin

    A Balance Preview Mod survey was just released to gather data on player's feedback.

    Take the survey now: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/BalancePreview

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