IMHO the Vet should be looked at. The MG feels fine now, also the cost increase was necessary, but the Vet requirements
are too damn high. You can make 5-10 kills now and still not gettin a star. Should be tweaked
In the spirit of strategic diversity, I wonder if having the MG42 be the replacement call in for OKW doctrines that used to have MG34s is a good change. Having a unit that can suppress in the core tech tree is healthy for the game, and can serve as a sort of checks and balances measure against toxic strategies.
However, the call-in MG doesn't seem as satisfying or rewarding now that its role has been filled in the core tech. Maybe some other unit with a passive or activatable ability that makes it feel somehow different from a core unit, and not necessarily another machine gun. As it is, the ability to get an HMG with slightly better stats with no build time at the trade-off of cost and doctrine selection doesn't seem like a strategically interesting decision to me.
With these changes in the patch, I want to draw attention to one important aspect:
OKW (panzerfaust):
You did the right thing by giving engineers a panzerschreck and improving the efficiency of the Puppchen. Now the presence of the panzerfaust seems completely superfluous. With these changes, OKW has too many means to combat with light enemy tanks in the initial stage of the game. I think the best solution is to remove the panzerfaust from volksgrenadiers equipment.
The panzerfaust is a weapon that can cause bad gaming experience for the Allies, against which the tool can be applied. I think so, because it is the weapon with a 100% probability disables the engine. If grenadier or volksgrenadier has time to take aim at the tank, it will in any case make a hit on the target. From the shot of a panzerfaust is impossible to dodge.
In either case, the panzerfaust is required for Wehrmacht, since it is one of the few means of combating the enemy armored vehicles at the beginning of the game. However, I repeat, for the OKW is better to avoid the use of the panzerfaust, because this weapon brings a negative experience for the players to play for the Allies. Especially now, you can get rid of the panzerfaust, because now the engineers have a panzerschreck.
I am more than pleased with the changes of the Allies.
Counter Battery
Solid change but CP also need to go up...The aiblity simply comes to early.
Land Mattress
CP change a bit too harsh better CP lvl around 7-6.
W.P. should probably become vet 1 ability.
Sexton
Buffed way to much Sexton fires very frequently especially with veterancy. It synergy with Valentine is still bad and valentine is under performing. A better way would be to fix the synergy (can give suggestions here.)
Firefly
Good changes but the combination of tulips and gamon bombs is deadly replace stun with another critical like slow or turret damage...
Infantry Section (Both variants)
Veternacy is fine flare are not. They have more range than grenades cost very little and comes too early...The price MU should go up or it could be replaced by smoke barrage....
Tank Hunter Infantry Section
Solid change but again the ability is too strong with Gamon bombs. AT grenades and Gamon should share the cooldown.
Sniper
Now the sniper will not risk anything since he can spot and use ability outside enemy range...How does it make a high risk ability???
Replace with smoke barrage or revert.
the new ranges for arty also make the doctrinal ability "concentration barrage" look pale by comparison.
The elimination of bazookas, makes useless captain and players will displace at build viable units as riflemen. Ergo has removed a part of the strategy, which is only going to build riflemen.
Given that the Sturm Shrek seems to be the most debated change, here are my thoughts after testing it.
Observations:
They are much more difficult to blob effectively than volks, given the increased manpower, smaller squads, and longer train times, overall their ability to be blobbed is far less troublesome than the old Volk blob, a step in the right direction.
They lose a significant amount of AI from upgrading to the shrek, which is good.
The Sturms Vet really quickly with the Shrek, this might need to be tweaked (reduced the amount of vet from hitting vehicles) Since Vet 5 Sturms are a bit more durable.
Forcing the OKW player between the Shrek or minesweeping upgrade would also be a solution.
Alternatively, my solution would be making the Shrek upgrade a two truck requirement, which gives the sturms a lategame role aside from repairing (since their combat value declines significantly late game) This still preserves the need for Volk/Racketten combo.
One thing I definitely need to air is my issue with infantry and team weapons spawning from buildings. Whilst this may provide new strategies, I have two major concerns :
1) What if I need my Obersoldaten or LEFG on the other side of the map to where my truck is positioned? Even if I set a rally point they STILL spawn from the truck, and in one instance I lost a squad because they carelessly wandered into an enemy emplacement blob.
2) More opinion based, but I think it spoils the authenticity of the battlefield when units just appear from thin air. It just looks corny to me, I very much preferred them arriving from off-map.
3) I also think this provides a big unfair advantage to OKW faction, as they are able to quickly spam infantry or team weapons from their frontline trucks.
So, suggestions:
1) Remove the feature altogether.
2) Make it rally-point specific. If my rally point is closer to homebase than the truck, it should deploy from my homebase/off-map.
3) make the feature optional in the truck menu.
I suppose you realize that I often play for OKW and I now it seems that playing for this side too easy in the middle stage of the game. I see that my opponent often can not cope with my blobs volks with stg-44 (yes, there is such a sin). I can say, after more than 10 victories (almost one after the other) in the battles 2 vs 2 from OKW, the German stg at the volks cause too much damage infantry allies. Currently volks exceed US soldiers, as well the British and Soviet soldiers. Volksgrenadiers should not be more effective than the Allied infantry or Eastern Wehrmacht in terms of balance and historicity.
You recently increased attack power rifles at the volks from 8 to 10 points of damage. At that time it was the right improvement. Now the soldiers have stg, and this means that they have become many times more powerful. It seems to me that you should return parameter rifles damage to 8 points. In this case, the optimal performance will be achieved for by this unit.
I hope that many will agree with me.
Relic always the need to make the best game OKW: /
1) Because they stretched the line of sight of AT? and the AT of okw is the best in the game, can get into homes, it becomes invisible, you can be retreat and do not need any technology to remove it (which gives more advantage because the other factions have to worry about having AT always some hand), I have been testing, and destroys tanks much faster than aT USF, then something is terribly wrong. I suggest moving the invisibility to vet 2 and move the AT to Mechanized Regiment.
2) No need for Sturmpioneer have Panzershrek, the OKW learn to live without Panzershrek, as do the Soviets and UKF players who think estretegias to destroy tanks, do not give it that easy.
@javabal said:
Relic always the need to make the best game OKW: /
1) Because they stretched the line of sight of AT? and the AT of okw is the best in the game, can get into homes, it becomes invisible, you can be retreat and do not need any technology to remove it (which gives more advantage because the other factions have to worry about having AT always some hand), I have been testing, and destroys tanks much faster than aT USF, then something is terribly wrong. I suggest moving the invisibility to vet 2 and move the AT to Mechanized Regiment.
2) No need for Sturmpioneer have Panzershrek, the OKW learn to live without Panzershrek, as do the Soviets and UKF players who think estretegias to destroy tanks, do not give it that easy.
To the AT, I'm in agreement that it has some of the best DPM, stealth and a retreat in the game while also being able to garrison. It's firing arc is fine as it was. Either revert the arc or remove the panzershreks from the strum. Because honestly now, the OKW are the only faction in the game with a unit that can act as AT, Anti-Infantry, build fortifications, repair, lay mines, and sweep for mines.
It's completely over the top how many roles they serve now, might as well use them as core infantry instead.
Sturmpioners&Penals
After the initial design and small balances for so long with each faction has acquired its role:
-US. Weak tanks and lack of hard tanks what this occupy the bazookas
-UK. Medium Inf, emplazaments y good tanks.
-SOV and WER. Combined arms
-OKW. Heavy tanks, variety of elite inf and VET4-5.
+Knowing this, Why add Panzershrecks to Sturmpioneers for a faction with the best tanks of the all game?
+Why sturmpios have a high DPS in early game when you haven´t a clear counter?
+PPSH Penals have reverted, Why your DPS?
When lack of unities (maxim or buff penals) in early game SP continue their harassment going to the first engagement and forget capture. DPS would have to lower them or move to the next truck (perhaps as mg34 works being necessary to unlock). Although I prefer that no high dps in early game: Early sturmpios high DPS
Comets
If nerf the armour rear there must be a price adjustment with Comet, because Panther has better stats and is more cheaper:
Panther-175FU
Comet--185 FU Panther&Comet
Universal Carrier
In CE MOD has been decreased from 260 to 240. Perhaps because it's easy kill him with faust
I don't know how to say this but... I have been playing for maybe... 15 hours this mod or more?
Well...Let me say something:
I play as OBK and SOVIET
OBK:
It's feel too easy win with volks and their stg against infantry units, they do a lot of damage to infantry in my opinion. It need some touches. But good change.
Sturm (as a guy said before) now have a lot of roles in the game Anti-Infantry, build fortifications, repair, lay mines, and sweep for mines. Too much for an Engineer unit and now is the only unit in the game with all of these. They're more spammable because it comes on early.
All the other changes are fine too me.
SOV:
Well... I think almost all is good right now but actually the soviet players have hard times to deal with Volks and their Stg, Why?
Because they do not have a non-doctrinal unit with a assault rifle package or something like that, penals was a good counterpart for volks with their ppsh, but now they dont have it, Why (again)? because some players said "penals are overperforming", they didnt, NEVER.
I have some balance issues in the OKW/Russian matchup.
I wrote my point of view here:
I forgot to write that okw is also better in the very early game due to sturmpios which can cause less fuel income early on.
I am NOT a pro player but im not bad either. I think this problem is not dependent on my or anyones skill. Its simply a problem by the numbers (fuel cost).
Sorry for bad english and spelling mistakes.
Thanks
edit: small mistakes, T3 costs 20 manpower less, SU78 = SU76
I feel the StG 44 Package is too low priced and its costs much less than the BAR of the USF, same cost but for 2 weapons and its basically does the same job maybe u should make the the stg 44 package cost more or make the OKW upgrade volks twice for the price of 60 for each weapon or make the package 120 munitions.
in my opinion it makes the OKW core units really effective in close combat with low priced upgrades and you got 2 units Sturmpioneers and volks charging and killing everthing in their path with their STGs while all allies have weaker close range infantry in the begining of the match
I think that Schreck should be moved to Obers and Obers should be moved to Medic HQ.
Sturmpio's are doing way too much jobs now, with early aggressiveness, repairing, sometimes healing, searching for mines and hunting tanks all being put in their lap.
Removing Faust from Volks is a bad idea imo. Every other side has some form of AT at their core unit, but OKW shouldn't have it at all?
Did I see correctly that Penals again only have SVT 40's and a flamer? Close combat Satchel and flamer put on a unit armed with rifles suited to medium range is kinda silly to me, they should get PPSh's again.
And no, imo they are most certainly not OP, they are expensive, squishy, without smoke (what most assault units have), and cannot run before rank 2. Also that upgrade being 30 mun costlier will make you think should you get it.
@champ19444 said:
I feel the StG 44 Package is too low priced and its costs much less than the BAR of the USF, same cost but for 2 weapons and its basically does the same job maybe u should make the the stg 44 package cost more or make the OKW upgrade volks twice for the price of 60 for each weapon or make the package 120 munitions.
in my opinion it makes the OKW core units really effective in close combat with low priced upgrades and you got 2 units Sturmpioneers and volks charging and killing everthing in their path with their STGs while all allies have weaker close range infantry in the begining of the match
But you need to run into close range with a unit without speed boost or smoke. Suppress them with a HMG or Rear echelon. Use Penals against them.
Also BAR is quite potent at long range. STG's are somewhat also but not as much.
Maybe some increase to 80 or something would be ok, but 120? Too much.
In general I really like this balance mod, and i think it is a major step in the right direction. It is a refreshing change from how things were. I mostly play Soviets and OKW, but i play a decent amount of Britts and Whermacht too. So Americans are basically the only faction I'm not going to comment on.
Whermacht: I think the changes to the whermacht are very nice.
The reduced cost of buildings was a nice touch that makes it easier to field the vehicles that you need. I think the pricing is just right now.
The Brumbar is better now, slightly easier to use and more worth the resources. I did notice that when using it to attack a Bofors, that even with front armor facing it, the brumbar lost almost a third of its health in the time it took to shoot two or three times. However given that ive seen a few threads from the comunity, saying that the bofores has too much penetration, so i think it has more to do with that, than with the brumbar not being able to do its job well.
Britts: Again i think that the changes are some very nice fine tunings of the faction.
The infantry section vet feel good now. Previously they did seem to vet up strangely fast for basic infantry squad.
The range changes for the artillery flare also feel pretty good. They are useful and risky, but not too dangerous either.
Emplacement damage from goliaths are fine with me, I think if any player spends the micro time and attention to get his goliath to my emplacement safely, then he deserves to do a ton of damage to it.
OKW: I think most of the changes are a step in the right direction, but i do have some concerns.
I think the removal of panzershrecks on volks is a very good decision. I also think that the stg upgrade is a nice one too that lets them scale into the late game better, and also greatly rewards unit preservation. It may perhaps come a bit too early and it might be good to require two trucks to be bought. Also the addition of the panzerfaust is a nice change, it encourages more combined arms which is very nice.
The addition of panzershrecks on sturmpioneers I am unconvinced about. I dont really belive that there will be problems with blobing them, but the number of things sturms can do is quite staggering. In addition Im even unconvinced that the OKW even need any handheld AT. Between a relatively cheap AT gun that can retreat and be put into garisons, and the puma, and lastly the jagpanzer IV, I think they can handle vehicles quite well. I can see the devs reasoning of the OKW cant get the puma or jagpanzer IV out if they are very much behind, but with the same reasoning, the soviets wouldn't be able to do that either. They have to rely on doctrinal infantry(if they have it), snares and their more expensive and less maneuverable AT gun. So i dont see why OKW cant be expected to just buy Two Racketens (or possibly more) and just use micro with a snare to try and come back from being behind there. If anything maybe reduce the cost of a raketen to make that more viable, but i dont think handheld AT is necissary.
Needing to buy the medics and the engineers at the trucks I think are a fine change. It just creates more choices for the player to make and i dont think it is necessarily detrimental either way they choose. There are positives and negitives whether they upgrade or not.
Soviets: Again very good changes but im unconvinced on some of them.
I think penal troops are in a nice place right now, they are useful and can do a lot of damage, but they are not so powerful that im going to start only making penal troops. It is a nice place that make it more viable to build teir one instead of teir two. My one comment however would be to possibly allow them to buy one AT rifle. My reasoning is that it provides a low level of defense against light vehicles and it comes directly from the devs reasoning for the assault package that has since been revoked. Teir one for soviets has a severe lack of AT in any form, so instead of giving them mre anti infantry to make up for the problem, possibly add some light non doctrinal AT. I think one might be the right amount just so they dont encroach too much on guards and they also are less likely to be spammed because the damage output of one would be relatively low. Just an idea though.
T34/76, I think is a good step in the right direction. While the initial changes were a bit too powerful, I think that the current strength of the MGs are too low. My suggestion is to go halfway for that damage of the coax mg, so that should be 6 damage (if i remember correctly, they dropped it from 8 to 4, but increased the accuracy a bit). The reason I think it needs to be improved is that with the powerful machine guns the T34/76 can act as a strong infantry support tank. it actually becomes a viable option as the mid game develops because it can accel at something. As it was before it was more or less a distraction for their AT and a tank that can ram right before it dies anyway. I think with a little bit more power than it is at right now it would be able to shine and be a useful investment. In addition From my experience i have heard very very few people saying anything positive about the secure mode on most Russian tanks. If Relic wants to defend their initial design decisions then i think they need to consider bringing the T34 closer to what it was at the beginning of this balance preview. As I see it the unique use of the secure mode ability is that it enables you to field a force comprised of significantly more vehicles and less infantry, and possibly even only vehicles if someone chooses, because it give the tanks the ability to capture. I think that is a very strong and unique ability, but only if the vehicles are good enough to actually replace infantry, and as it is in the actual game right now I would pick another guards squad over a t34 because they are better against infantry, can capture while firing, and if given enough time can do the same amount of damage as a t34 does to an enemy tank before they all die.
The SU85 I think is in a nice place right now. Personally I'm going to miss the fire rate of the old one, but I think the much more reliable penetration is an okay trade off. If this change is not implemented then I think that a decrease in the veterancy requirements is needed for it so that way the increased fire rate is much more attainable without devoting all of your micro to your SU85. Then I think people would like the old version better if they saw their SU85 get to vet 2 and 3 more frequently, because it can be quite impressive and very useful once it has that bonus fire rate.
Lastly are the tripwire flares. I'm not a big fan of this change. My experience with it is just dissatisfaction. It all works fine, but I get no sense that it was actually worth the resources invested. I understand that players were upset that they would have squads wiped by these and by regular mines (especially when people placed them at doorways), but im not sure the solution used is the right one.
I have always liked tripwire flares even when many many people have made suggestions involving removing this ability from most soviet infantry, But that was when i could easily justify the cost. Before it was 10 munitions to kill off one or two models (or more if they were very clumped) as well as give vision of enemies nearby them. But that was a noticeable, definitive effect. even if you don't see it happen the effect is there by the fact that it reduces the damage output of the squad by 1/4 or 1/6. It caused a model to drop and reduced squad damage as well as requiring the enemy to invest another 30 or so manpower to reinforce. That is a good trade for 10 munitions. Now that it does a specific amount of damage it may be able to wound a squad to the equivalent of loosing one model, but there is basically no visual for the user to see and be satisfied, and there is not necissarily a actual gain from it. . Now there is a chance that you hit the entire squad with it, so it does 80 to 100 damage to the squad overall, but first of all there are a number of axis unit that can heal in the field with vet, so before they even reach combat, the damage from the 10 munitions used could be removed, on top of that, even if they retreat, there is no actual cost besides time to heal them (theoretically the bunker or the medics have a cost but that would be purchased regardless of the tripwire flare so is not directly a cost caused by the flare itself.) Therefore the only way to guarantee that you can actually get a cost benefit out of the expended resources is to immediately attack the squad and try to use the lowered health to your advantage and maybe kill some models faster or force a sooner retreat.
My solution for creating something that is fair for all players is that the flare kills one model in the first squad to walk over it. Maybe you could add a very low chance crit that can kill 2 models instead of one. But this way there is very little rng deciding the fate of a squad, and you actually get what you pay for. No squad wipes, but also a satisfying experience for those who use the tripwire flares.
Hopefully you find this useful relic, Overall though I would like to say that this balance mod is definitely a good step in the right direction, I hope there are more solid improvements to come. And i think making big update previews with taking in community input may be a solid way of balancing the game for many different players skill levels.
Well having played more and observed more i am definately convinced that the American mortar needs to be looked into. In part due to it's veterancy which at vet 2 allows it to be very potent. Probably consider exchanging the vet 1 ability with something else so it has less of an unerring accuracy.
Otherwise in terms of strategic diversity this has been more of a success for the allies so far than the axis. As the allies have had a lot more options opened up for them. Axis ? less so really. And i'd argue there needs to be some looking into that with the next few updates to the balance preview.
I think adding to sturmpios shrecks is the worst thing you have done. The problem of OKW is blobbing and if you move shrek to a starter unit to another the blob problem is not solved. You should add it to Obersoldaten, so OKW players must have a micromanagement for manpower for calling anti tank infantry. Because if you put shrecks in a starter unit ALL OKW players have one tactic: spam infantry at the begin and when shrecks are unlocked equp them. So you have to contrast at least 5 units with shrecks in 10 minutes of the game, making light vehicles almost useless.
T 34/76
Why you revert the increased damage of his machine gun? Soviets doesn't have a decent anti-infantry tank (except KV 8 but you can recruit it only with some doctrines) why you revert the only thing that can give a sense to call t 34/76?.
Improved healing of OKW
Just a question: why OKW can heal faster than others?
MY OPINION
This patch could be the best you have done since last summer, it finally could give a balanced gameplay, because at the moment OKW is overpower (just my opinion) but with that changes i think it will be another patch that make stronger OKW.
Comments
Aha! That's where you are wrong, my friend! One word! Smoke!
Keeps saying my steamid at the end is in in an invalid format. Definitely my correct steamid though
Not many OKW units can lay an offensive smoke screen...so unless you have Ostheer teammate it a bit tricky...
Same problem. Has anyone managed to submit successfully?
I couldn't enter my steam ID.... It always said: Wrong format, but it absolutely was my Steam64ID :-/
But at all, absolutely great balance patch!! Best so far
Steam ID seems fixed, try again
edit: feel free to delete this and my previous post now that the issue is solved so they don't clutter the topic.
@MG34:
are too damn high. You can make 5-10 kills now and still not gettin a star. Should be tweaked
In the spirit of strategic diversity, I wonder if having the MG42 be the replacement call in for OKW doctrines that used to have MG34s is a good change. Having a unit that can suppress in the core tech tree is healthy for the game, and can serve as a sort of checks and balances measure against toxic strategies.
However, the call-in MG doesn't seem as satisfying or rewarding now that its role has been filled in the core tech. Maybe some other unit with a passive or activatable ability that makes it feel somehow different from a core unit, and not necessarily another machine gun. As it is, the ability to get an HMG with slightly better stats with no build time at the trade-off of cost and doctrine selection doesn't seem like a strategically interesting decision to me.
With these changes in the patch, I want to draw attention to one important aspect:
OKW (panzerfaust):
You did the right thing by giving engineers a panzerschreck and improving the efficiency of the Puppchen. Now the presence of the panzerfaust seems completely superfluous. With these changes, OKW has too many means to combat with light enemy tanks in the initial stage of the game. I think the best solution is to remove the panzerfaust from volksgrenadiers equipment.
The panzerfaust is a weapon that can cause bad gaming experience for the Allies, against which the tool can be applied. I think so, because it is the weapon with a 100% probability disables the engine. If grenadier or volksgrenadier has time to take aim at the tank, it will in any case make a hit on the target. From the shot of a panzerfaust is impossible to dodge.
In either case, the panzerfaust is required for Wehrmacht, since it is one of the few means of combating the enemy armored vehicles at the beginning of the game. However, I repeat, for the OKW is better to avoid the use of the panzerfaust, because this weapon brings a negative experience for the players to play for the Allies. Especially now, you can get rid of the panzerfaust, because now the engineers have a panzerschreck.
I am more than pleased with the changes of the Allies.
BRITISH FORCES
Starting Resources
Solid change
Universal Carrier
Solid change
Counter Battery
Solid change but CP also need to go up...The aiblity simply comes to early.
Land Mattress
CP change a bit too harsh better CP lvl around 7-6.
W.P. should probably become vet 1 ability.
Sexton
Buffed way to much Sexton fires very frequently especially with veterancy. It synergy with Valentine is still bad and valentine is under performing. A better way would be to fix the synergy (can give suggestions here.)
Firefly
Good changes but the combination of tulips and gamon bombs is deadly replace stun with another critical like slow or turret damage...
Infantry Section (Both variants)
Veternacy is fine flare are not. They have more range than grenades cost very little and comes too early...The price MU should go up or it could be replaced by smoke barrage....
Tank Hunter Infantry Section
Solid change but again the ability is too strong with Gamon bombs. AT grenades and Gamon should share the cooldown.
Sniper
Now the sniper will not risk anything since he can spot and use ability outside enemy range...How does it make a high risk ability???
Replace with smoke barrage or revert.
the new ranges for arty also make the doctrinal ability "concentration barrage" look pale by comparison.
In regards to Rak43, I noticed that unlike other AT Guns it doesn't have a reverse (hotkey T) button. Bug or deliberate?
The elimination of bazookas, makes useless captain and players will displace at build viable units as riflemen. Ergo has removed a part of the strategy, which is only going to build riflemen.
Please only discuss the specific changes. Otherwise make a thread of your own.
Given that the Sturm Shrek seems to be the most debated change, here are my thoughts after testing it.
Observations:
Taken the survey,
One thing I definitely need to air is my issue with infantry and team weapons spawning from buildings. Whilst this may provide new strategies, I have two major concerns :
1) What if I need my Obersoldaten or LEFG on the other side of the map to where my truck is positioned? Even if I set a rally point they STILL spawn from the truck, and in one instance I lost a squad because they carelessly wandered into an enemy emplacement blob.
2) More opinion based, but I think it spoils the authenticity of the battlefield when units just appear from thin air. It just looks corny to me, I very much preferred them arriving from off-map.
3) I also think this provides a big unfair advantage to OKW faction, as they are able to quickly spam infantry or team weapons from their frontline trucks.
So, suggestions:
1) Remove the feature altogether.
2) Make it rally-point specific. If my rally point is closer to homebase than the truck, it should deploy from my homebase/off-map.
3) make the feature optional in the truck menu.
Volksgrenadiers
I suppose you realize that I often play for OKW and I now it seems that playing for this side too easy in the middle stage of the game. I see that my opponent often can not cope with my blobs volks with stg-44 (yes, there is such a sin). I can say, after more than 10 victories (almost one after the other) in the battles 2 vs 2 from OKW, the German stg at the volks cause too much damage infantry allies. Currently volks exceed US soldiers, as well the British and Soviet soldiers. Volksgrenadiers should not be more effective than the Allied infantry or Eastern Wehrmacht in terms of balance and historicity.
You recently increased attack power rifles at the volks from 8 to 10 points of damage. At that time it was the right improvement. Now the soldiers have stg, and this means that they have become many times more powerful. It seems to me that you should return parameter rifles damage to 8 points. In this case, the optimal performance will be achieved for by this unit.
I hope that many will agree with me.
Volks rifles are bolt action and do more damage but fire slower. they do 12 damage per shot.
Relic always the need to make the best game OKW: /
1) Because they stretched the line of sight of AT? and the AT of okw is the best in the game, can get into homes, it becomes invisible, you can be retreat and do not need any technology to remove it (which gives more advantage because the other factions have to worry about having AT always some hand), I have been testing, and destroys tanks much faster than aT USF, then something is terribly wrong. I suggest moving the invisibility to vet 2 and move the AT to Mechanized Regiment.
2) No need for Sturmpioneer have Panzershrek, the OKW learn to live without Panzershrek, as do the Soviets and UKF players who think estretegias to destroy tanks, do not give it that easy.
To the AT, I'm in agreement that it has some of the best DPM, stealth and a retreat in the game while also being able to garrison. It's firing arc is fine as it was. Either revert the arc or remove the panzershreks from the strum. Because honestly now, the OKW are the only faction in the game with a unit that can act as AT, Anti-Infantry, build fortifications, repair, lay mines, and sweep for mines.
It's completely over the top how many roles they serve now, might as well use them as core infantry instead.
Sturmpioners&Penals
After the initial design and small balances for so long with each faction has acquired its role:
-US. Weak tanks and lack of hard tanks what this occupy the bazookas
-UK. Medium Inf, emplazaments y good tanks.
-SOV and WER. Combined arms
-OKW. Heavy tanks, variety of elite inf and VET4-5.
+Knowing this, Why add Panzershrecks to Sturmpioneers for a faction with the best tanks of the all game?
+Why sturmpios have a high DPS in early game when you haven´t a clear counter?
+PPSH Penals have reverted, Why your DPS?
When lack of unities (maxim or buff penals) in early game SP continue their harassment going to the first engagement and forget capture. DPS would have to lower them or move to the next truck (perhaps as mg34 works being necessary to unlock). Although I prefer that no high dps in early game:
Early sturmpios high DPS
Comets
If nerf the armour rear there must be a price adjustment with Comet, because Panther has better stats and is more cheaper:
Panther-175FU
Comet--185 FU
Panther&Comet
Universal Carrier
In CE MOD has been decreased from 260 to 240. Perhaps because it's easy kill him with faust
sorry my english
I don't know how to say this but... I have been playing for maybe... 15 hours this mod or more?
Well...Let me say something:
I play as OBK and SOVIET
OBK:
It's feel too easy win with volks and their stg against infantry units, they do a lot of damage to infantry in my opinion. It need some touches. But good change.
Sturm (as a guy said before) now have a lot of roles in the game Anti-Infantry, build fortifications, repair, lay mines, and sweep for mines. Too much for an Engineer unit and now is the only unit in the game with all of these. They're more spammable because it comes on early.
All the other changes are fine too me.
SOV:
Well... I think almost all is good right now but actually the soviet players have hard times to deal with Volks and their Stg, Why?
Because they do not have a non-doctrinal unit with a assault rifle package or something like that, penals was a good counterpart for volks with their ppsh, but now they dont have it, Why (again)? because some players said "penals are overperforming", they didnt, NEVER.
Thanks for all!
I have some balance issues in the OKW/Russian matchup.
I wrote my point of view here:
I forgot to write that okw is also better in the very early game due to sturmpios which can cause less fuel income early on.
I am NOT a pro player but im not bad either. I think this problem is not dependent on my or anyones skill. Its simply a problem by the numbers (fuel cost).
Sorry for bad english and spelling mistakes.
Thanks
edit: small mistakes, T3 costs 20 manpower less, SU78 = SU76
I feel the StG 44 Package is too low priced and its costs much less than the BAR of the USF, same cost but for 2 weapons and its basically does the same job maybe u should make the the stg 44 package cost more or make the OKW upgrade volks twice for the price of 60 for each weapon or make the package 120 munitions.
in my opinion it makes the OKW core units really effective in close combat with low priced upgrades and you got 2 units Sturmpioneers and volks charging and killing everthing in their path with their STGs while all allies have weaker close range infantry in the begining of the match
Sturmpio's are doing way too much jobs now, with early aggressiveness, repairing, sometimes healing, searching for mines and hunting tanks all being put in their lap.
Removing Faust from Volks is a bad idea imo. Every other side has some form of AT at their core unit, but OKW shouldn't have it at all?
And no, imo they are most certainly not OP, they are expensive, squishy, without smoke (what most assault units have), and cannot run before rank 2. Also that upgrade being 30 mun costlier will make you think should you get it.
But you need to run into close range with a unit without speed boost or smoke. Suppress them with a HMG or Rear echelon. Use Penals against them.
Also BAR is quite potent at long range. STG's are somewhat also but not as much.
Maybe some increase to 80 or something would be ok, but 120? Too much.
Kindly refrain from doubleposting, IE making more posts to make more comments. Do it in one post or don't do it at all.
IF you feel the need to make things more distinct. Learn some formatting. Don't flood the threads.
In general I really like this balance mod, and i think it is a major step in the right direction. It is a refreshing change from how things were. I mostly play Soviets and OKW, but i play a decent amount of Britts and Whermacht too. So Americans are basically the only faction I'm not going to comment on.
Whermacht: I think the changes to the whermacht are very nice.
The reduced cost of buildings was a nice touch that makes it easier to field the vehicles that you need. I think the pricing is just right now.
The Brumbar is better now, slightly easier to use and more worth the resources. I did notice that when using it to attack a Bofors, that even with front armor facing it, the brumbar lost almost a third of its health in the time it took to shoot two or three times. However given that ive seen a few threads from the comunity, saying that the bofores has too much penetration, so i think it has more to do with that, than with the brumbar not being able to do its job well.
Britts: Again i think that the changes are some very nice fine tunings of the faction.
The infantry section vet feel good now. Previously they did seem to vet up strangely fast for basic infantry squad.
The range changes for the artillery flare also feel pretty good. They are useful and risky, but not too dangerous either.
Emplacement damage from goliaths are fine with me, I think if any player spends the micro time and attention to get his goliath to my emplacement safely, then he deserves to do a ton of damage to it.
OKW: I think most of the changes are a step in the right direction, but i do have some concerns.
I think the removal of panzershrecks on volks is a very good decision. I also think that the stg upgrade is a nice one too that lets them scale into the late game better, and also greatly rewards unit preservation. It may perhaps come a bit too early and it might be good to require two trucks to be bought. Also the addition of the panzerfaust is a nice change, it encourages more combined arms which is very nice.
The addition of panzershrecks on sturmpioneers I am unconvinced about. I dont really belive that there will be problems with blobing them, but the number of things sturms can do is quite staggering. In addition Im even unconvinced that the OKW even need any handheld AT. Between a relatively cheap AT gun that can retreat and be put into garisons, and the puma, and lastly the jagpanzer IV, I think they can handle vehicles quite well. I can see the devs reasoning of the OKW cant get the puma or jagpanzer IV out if they are very much behind, but with the same reasoning, the soviets wouldn't be able to do that either. They have to rely on doctrinal infantry(if they have it), snares and their more expensive and less maneuverable AT gun. So i dont see why OKW cant be expected to just buy Two Racketens (or possibly more) and just use micro with a snare to try and come back from being behind there. If anything maybe reduce the cost of a raketen to make that more viable, but i dont think handheld AT is necissary.
Needing to buy the medics and the engineers at the trucks I think are a fine change. It just creates more choices for the player to make and i dont think it is necessarily detrimental either way they choose. There are positives and negitives whether they upgrade or not.
Soviets: Again very good changes but im unconvinced on some of them.
I think penal troops are in a nice place right now, they are useful and can do a lot of damage, but they are not so powerful that im going to start only making penal troops. It is a nice place that make it more viable to build teir one instead of teir two. My one comment however would be to possibly allow them to buy one AT rifle. My reasoning is that it provides a low level of defense against light vehicles and it comes directly from the devs reasoning for the assault package that has since been revoked. Teir one for soviets has a severe lack of AT in any form, so instead of giving them mre anti infantry to make up for the problem, possibly add some light non doctrinal AT. I think one might be the right amount just so they dont encroach too much on guards and they also are less likely to be spammed because the damage output of one would be relatively low. Just an idea though.
T34/76, I think is a good step in the right direction. While the initial changes were a bit too powerful, I think that the current strength of the MGs are too low. My suggestion is to go halfway for that damage of the coax mg, so that should be 6 damage (if i remember correctly, they dropped it from 8 to 4, but increased the accuracy a bit). The reason I think it needs to be improved is that with the powerful machine guns the T34/76 can act as a strong infantry support tank. it actually becomes a viable option as the mid game develops because it can accel at something. As it was before it was more or less a distraction for their AT and a tank that can ram right before it dies anyway. I think with a little bit more power than it is at right now it would be able to shine and be a useful investment. In addition From my experience i have heard very very few people saying anything positive about the secure mode on most Russian tanks. If Relic wants to defend their initial design decisions then i think they need to consider bringing the T34 closer to what it was at the beginning of this balance preview. As I see it the unique use of the secure mode ability is that it enables you to field a force comprised of significantly more vehicles and less infantry, and possibly even only vehicles if someone chooses, because it give the tanks the ability to capture. I think that is a very strong and unique ability, but only if the vehicles are good enough to actually replace infantry, and as it is in the actual game right now I would pick another guards squad over a t34 because they are better against infantry, can capture while firing, and if given enough time can do the same amount of damage as a t34 does to an enemy tank before they all die.
The SU85 I think is in a nice place right now. Personally I'm going to miss the fire rate of the old one, but I think the much more reliable penetration is an okay trade off. If this change is not implemented then I think that a decrease in the veterancy requirements is needed for it so that way the increased fire rate is much more attainable without devoting all of your micro to your SU85. Then I think people would like the old version better if they saw their SU85 get to vet 2 and 3 more frequently, because it can be quite impressive and very useful once it has that bonus fire rate.
Lastly are the tripwire flares. I'm not a big fan of this change. My experience with it is just dissatisfaction. It all works fine, but I get no sense that it was actually worth the resources invested. I understand that players were upset that they would have squads wiped by these and by regular mines (especially when people placed them at doorways), but im not sure the solution used is the right one.
I have always liked tripwire flares even when many many people have made suggestions involving removing this ability from most soviet infantry, But that was when i could easily justify the cost. Before it was 10 munitions to kill off one or two models (or more if they were very clumped) as well as give vision of enemies nearby them. But that was a noticeable, definitive effect. even if you don't see it happen the effect is there by the fact that it reduces the damage output of the squad by 1/4 or 1/6. It caused a model to drop and reduced squad damage as well as requiring the enemy to invest another 30 or so manpower to reinforce. That is a good trade for 10 munitions. Now that it does a specific amount of damage it may be able to wound a squad to the equivalent of loosing one model, but there is basically no visual for the user to see and be satisfied, and there is not necissarily a actual gain from it. . Now there is a chance that you hit the entire squad with it, so it does 80 to 100 damage to the squad overall, but first of all there are a number of axis unit that can heal in the field with vet, so before they even reach combat, the damage from the 10 munitions used could be removed, on top of that, even if they retreat, there is no actual cost besides time to heal them (theoretically the bunker or the medics have a cost but that would be purchased regardless of the tripwire flare so is not directly a cost caused by the flare itself.) Therefore the only way to guarantee that you can actually get a cost benefit out of the expended resources is to immediately attack the squad and try to use the lowered health to your advantage and maybe kill some models faster or force a sooner retreat.
My solution for creating something that is fair for all players is that the flare kills one model in the first squad to walk over it. Maybe you could add a very low chance crit that can kill 2 models instead of one. But this way there is very little rng deciding the fate of a squad, and you actually get what you pay for. No squad wipes, but also a satisfying experience for those who use the tripwire flares.
Hopefully you find this useful relic, Overall though I would like to say that this balance mod is definitely a good step in the right direction, I hope there are more solid improvements to come. And i think making big update previews with taking in community input may be a solid way of balancing the game for many different players skill levels.
Well having played more and observed more i am definately convinced that the American mortar needs to be looked into. In part due to it's veterancy which at vet 2 allows it to be very potent. Probably consider exchanging the vet 1 ability with something else so it has less of an unerring accuracy.
Otherwise in terms of strategic diversity this has been more of a success for the allies so far than the axis. As the allies have had a lot more options opened up for them. Axis ? less so really. And i'd argue there needs to be some looking into that with the next few updates to the balance preview.
# REVERT CHANGES
STURMPIONEERS PANZERSHRECK
I think adding to sturmpios shrecks is the worst thing you have done. The problem of OKW is blobbing and if you move shrek to a starter unit to another the blob problem is not solved. You should add it to Obersoldaten, so OKW players must have a micromanagement for manpower for calling anti tank infantry. Because if you put shrecks in a starter unit ALL OKW players have one tactic: spam infantry at the begin and when shrecks are unlocked equp them. So you have to contrast at least 5 units with shrecks in 10 minutes of the game, making light vehicles almost useless.
T 34/76
Why you revert the increased damage of his machine gun? Soviets doesn't have a decent anti-infantry tank (except KV 8 but you can recruit it only with some doctrines) why you revert the only thing that can give a sense to call t 34/76?.
Improved healing of OKW
Just a question: why OKW can heal faster than others?
MY OPINION
This patch could be the best you have done since last summer, it finally could give a balanced gameplay, because at the moment OKW is overpower (just my opinion) but with that changes i think it will be another patch that make stronger OKW.