War Spoils Feedback

135

Comments

  • #62
    4 years ago
    SteillSteill Posts: 4
    edited May 2016

    @Mr_Ruin said:

    @Serious said:

    Well if those bulletins bring rapid fire mortars, heavily armored light tanks, and "much cheaper AT?" then those bulletins should be changed. I am also pretty sure 15% armor on a light vehicle is not much more at all considering they dont have much armor. Also how much cheaper is the AT?

    If it isn't such an increase why are you so loathe to let it go?

    12% faster le.IG 18 makes it quite deadlier cause it is already a strong weapon.
    T-70 is already a menace, if 15% means it can take another punch without exploding it quite improves its staying power with it's self repair.
    Or Puma with 12% more armor penetration or faster reload. Even as it is it can destroy a tank with some luck.
    Former Grim reaper's tool meant 15% cheaper Shrecks, on a blob it means another Schreck.
    18% cheaper or 30% faster building of mines for Soviets which already are mine happy?
    30% less supression for Volks?

    And this is only Soviets and OKW, list goes on.

    Bulletins were intended as several percent increase, not to change entire balance. And while it seems like a small thing, even several percent more accuracy on mortar is difference between shaving some health and killing a model.

    Yeah, its an example of bulletins that impact perfomance greatly, but most of them will not be equipped by anyone. How about panzerfaust cost reduction by 1 mun? I never saw anyone with that. Or bulletins that affects ussr M42 gun? Do you even know that ussr have M42? Also oshteer have sniper bulletin that increases...his armor. ARMOR? If your sniper under fire u doing it wrong already. And how about cooldown reduction of UKF AVRE call-in by 10% if only one AVRE can be in battle? Does it means "waste this 140f as fast as u can and call another"?
    Theres useful and theres useless stuff. Obviously everyone wanna more useful and less useless, but its impossible due to bulletins mechanic: theres units we always use in combat , units that we use sometimes and units that we probably never gonna use except one suitable situation that gonna happen 1 time per 100 matches.
    Another problem is obvious too: one bulletin have almost zero impact on game but three of them can be devastating.

    Thats why we ever begin that discussion: Let us salvage whatever we want so we can get rid of stuff that noone gonna use and either rework bulletins so stacking wont be requred, either leave stacking as is since someone too lazy to balance out those bulletins.

  • #63
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited May 2016

    I am a bit confused. According to information drop obtained by "farming" will be deleted. drops delete by the player will be refunded.

    A)What consist "farming"?
    B)Since there is no way of player to know what if an item in his inventory was "farmed" or "rightful earned" how is he to know what he can or should had deleted?
    C) Does that mean that If player deleted a "legitimate" item and now has a "farmed" he will be left without the item?
    D) Why is it that Relic that, as far as I know has never clearly stated that "farming" is prohibited, now see fit to delete "farmed" items?

  • #64
    4 years ago
    RamaseesRamasees Posts: 2

    I'm having trouble playing te beta. Everytime I search for a game (both Vs AI and other players) there is nobody else searching (I am the 100% Ax/Allies searching).
    Here in ther UK, I have all options open for 1v1 all the way up to 4v4, open to public.

    Any ideas?

  • #65
    4 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited May 2016

    @Ramasees said:
    Any ideas?

    create an "open" custom game and wait for people to join or search for in the public game list...

  • #66
    4 years ago
    RamaseesRamasees Posts: 2

    @Vipper said:

    create an "open" custom game and wait for people to join or search for in the public game list...

    Yeah public game list is empty, but playing against AI in custom game gets match points.. so when the bar gets full (10k match points?) How many loot points do you get?

  • #67
    4 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    So. Match validation. Are there any rules for this ? Had a match, and got nothing out of it because the match failed validation. That's kind of a bummer when you won it.

  • #68
    4 years ago
    illequineillequine DublinPosts: 51

    Played a few more games this evening - it feels like a massive grind tbh. The warspoils themselves should imo be split into two categories. Commanders and Bulletins. Ideally i'd like to see the bulletins awarded after every match, and a commander awarded as a warspoil reward after reaching a specific amount of points with the new system.

    Having literally 600+ bulletins and a lot of them being multiple duplicate bulletins in the standard game myself, the way they are being awarded right now and in the beta is a really tough grind considering the game has been out around 3 years or so. if the idea here is to attract new players, i dont see the harm in giving away bulletins after each match, provided it meets whatever criteria, like "win" over 10 minutes long, units killed, built etc.. But the warspoils should again imo, as commanders only - keep them random and use whatever rarity system they have to limit which ones drop more frequently but keep in mind, at this point i've played over a thousand hours of this game, i have some decent commanders, i bought some and others i got through the current warspoils system. If i was brand new to the game i'd be thinking, this is too difficult and random to actually get a commander i want through the warspoils, and i'm not paying for them, so i'll play something else instead.

    So like i say, quality should be the keyword here.

    1 random quality commander drop per warspoil
    give the bulletins a flashy animation on a win - you recieve 1-3 depending on RNG, great you get something just for the win anyway, you also get people who want to play to win instead of dragging out a 20 minute game into an hour long drudge to hell.

    I dunno, to me that would make sense, but i'm just a guy playing the game not developing it.

    btw - i do love the balance changes and the changes to the ai - it's pretty challenging on normal even!

  • #69
    4 years ago
    OrcaOrca Posts: 74 admin

    @ImperialDane said:
    So. Match validation. Are there any rules for this ? Had a match, and got nothing out of it because the match failed validation. That's kind of a bummer when you won it.

    Hey Dane,
    I'm looking at your match histories and some of those games are under 5 mins long. One of the ones you lost was under 1 minute long.

    We're trying to tune the validation now but generally if your match is super short then that's probably why.

  • #70
    4 years ago
    SAS CommanderSAS Comma… Rule Britannia Posts: 55

    so how will it tell that a warspoil is farmed? I havent farmed for a day in my life, but I am curious as how it would tell

  • #71
    4 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,197 mod

    @Orca said:

    @ImperialDane said:
    So. Match validation. Are there any rules for this ? Had a match, and got nothing out of it because the match failed validation. That's kind of a bummer when you won it.

    Hey Dane,
    I'm looking at your match histories and some of those games are under 5 mins long. One of the ones you lost was under 1 minute long.

    We're trying to tune the validation now but generally if your match is super short then that's probably why.

    Haven't had much chance to play yet, tricky to get matches. The one with the less than a minute was because my teammate dropped right off the bat. And the other one. Well. My opponent was't on my level and i had the poor sod cornered in a very short amount of time.

    I can understand why you have the match validation, otherwise the system will just get farmed.

  • #72
    4 years ago

    It should be possible to get War Spoils from games with mods.

  • #73
    4 years ago
    PaiéPaié BrazilPosts: 13

    First forgive my English, you guys can improve a little more the War Spoiler System, because the currently metod give us ramdom bulletins and sometimes commanders and until there it's everything right.
    The point is: I play with UFK faction and recieve bulletins from WEH, maybe you guys can set that Loot bar to each faction separately, by this way people how play will receive bulletins according the faction who often play more.

  • #74
    4 years ago
    Mr_RuinMr_Ruin Posts: 92

    @Paié said:
    First forgive my English, you guys can improve a little more the War Spoiler System, because the currently metod give us ramdom bulletins and sometimes commanders and until there it's everything right.
    The point is: I play with UFK faction and recieve bulletins from WEH, maybe you guys can set that Loot bar to each faction separately, by this way people how play will receive bulletins according the faction who often play more.

    You will get spoils just for factions you own, also a lot of times you get points, so just buy what you need.

  • #75
    4 years ago
    OrcaOrca Posts: 74 admin

    @Marcel_Davis88 said:
    It should be possible to get War Spoils from games with mods.

    You can. If you don't get loot points after a modded game then it's either a bug, or you've played more than 12 games with a mod that day. (very unlikely)

  • #76
    4 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    @ElizLestrad said:
    Seeing as from a technical standpoint none of the communities issues were addressed, I'd like to request that bulletins and victory strikes be purchasable with real money for those of us who have clocked over 800+ hours and still do not have all our bulletins thanks to the god awful existence of duplicate drops.

    You get like 500 loot points per drop, and a bulletin cost 1000 points. That's like six winning games worth of time, and only if you start with zero points.

    And mind you, if the new feature comes live, all your duplicates are salvaged for points, which of course means if you've clocked 800+ hours there's no way you have all those duplicates salvaged and STILL not have enough for the remaining ones...and even if you do, you still only need six games' worth to get another 1000 points to spend on one of your desire.

    The only remaining RNG is if you get duplicate drops or a new drop that delays getting points. The former doesn't really delay, though I do not know how many points it gives from salvage, cannot test due to nature of the game, and the latter will ensure the next drop is either a new item or supply. Duplicates = supply in the beta, unlike now where duplicates = slap in the face.

  • #77
    4 years ago
    Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin

    @Paié said:
    First forgive my English, you guys can improve a little more the War Spoiler System, because the currently metod give us ramdom bulletins and sometimes commanders and until there it's everything right.
    The point is: I play with UFK faction and recieve bulletins from WEH, maybe you guys can set that Loot bar to each faction separately, by this way people how play will receive bulletins according the faction who often play more.

    The new system will ensure you only receive items in War Spoils drops from factions that you own.

  • #78
    4 years ago
    Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin

    @ElizLestrad said:
    Seeing as from a technical standpoint none of the communities issues were addressed, I'd like to request that bulletins and victory strikes be purchasable with real money for those of us who have clocked over 800+ hours and still do not have all our bulletins thanks to the god awful existence of duplicate drops.

    Frankly, I'd rather just pay cash and complete my loadouts rather than deal with this mess. Reading what's included, the "fix" is even worse than the broken system we have now.

    Do not confuse your issues with that of the community as a whole. The option to purchase bulletins and victory strikes with real money is not something the majority (or even very many community members) have asked for.

    Not to mention, as Comrade_Daelin has pointed out, these items have a low Supply cost and if you've clocked as many hours as you say you have you will have accumulated more than enough duplicates to earn the Supply needed to purchase the bulletins you desire.

  • #79
    4 years ago
    Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin
    edited May 2016

    @Vipper said:
    I am a bit confused. According to information drop obtained by "farming" will be deleted. drops delete by the player will be refunded.

    A)What consist "farming"?
    B)Since there is no way of player to know what if an item in his inventory was "farmed" or "rightful earned" how is he to know what he can or should had deleted?
    C) Does that mean that If player deleted a "legitimate" item and now has a "farmed" he will be left without the item?
    D) Why is it that Relic that, as far as I know has never clearly stated that "farming" is prohibited, now see fit to delete "farmed" items?

    A ) Farming is using a mod designed to farm War Spoils. There are few mods in circulation that were designed to specifically exploit this system. Duplicates obtained through the use of these mods will not be salvaged into Supply.
    B ) If you didn't use these mods then you don't have to worry about it.
    C ) Yes, but ^
    D ) Abusing exploits are prohibited. Mods that were designed to exploit the War Spoils system fall into this category.

  • #80
    4 years ago

    @Kyle_RE said:

    @Paié said:
    First forgive my English, you guys can improve a little more the War Spoiler System, because the currently metod give us ramdom bulletins and sometimes commanders and until there it's everything right.
    The point is: I play with UFK faction and recieve bulletins from WEH, maybe you guys can set that Loot bar to each faction separately, by this way people how play will receive bulletins according the faction who often play more.

    The new system will ensure you only receive items in War Spoils drops from factions that you own.

    How about from the faction you last played (this makes the most sense) . If I don't play Americans or OKW then I'm getting war spoils that I can NEVER use and can NEVER salvage. This makes me sad :(
    I love the game but I don't have time to learn all the armies and play them so I'd like to turn in spoils for factions I don't play for the ones I do. That's all :)

  • #81
    4 years ago
    Warlock546Warlock546 Posts: 3

    Getting things you want takes WAY too long. Relic knows this; they want war spoils to be as inefficient as possible in order to encourage us to buy the commanders with $. They said as much in the most recent post.

    The problem with that buisness strategy is that it wont get any new players into the game, it's simply designed to milk the shrinking playerbase. Please don't make that mistake relic! I enjoy this game, and I don't want to see it die because of this.

  • #82
    4 years ago
    Warlock546Warlock546 Posts: 3
    edited May 2016

    @Kyle_RE said:
    The new system will ensure you only receive items in War Spoils drops from factions that you own.

    He was saying you should recieve war spoils only for the faction you were playing, not for factions you OWN but never PLAY.

    So if I play OKW, I should uninstall wermacht and soviets in order to increase my chances to get drops for the factions that I actually play?

  • #83
    4 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    @Kyle_RE said:
    A ) Farming is using a mod designed to farm War Spoils. There are few mods in circulation that were designed to specifically exploit this system. Duplicates obtained through the use of these mods will not be salvaged into Supply.
    B ) If you didn't use these mods then you don't have to worry about it.
    C ) Yes, but ^
    D ) Abusing exploits are prohibited. Mods that were designed to exploit the War Spoils system fall into this category.

    We don't know what these mods are. You might as well publish an "official blacklist" for certain mods we shouldn't use to discourage farming. This is like tell everyone that doing X action results in going to jail, but also have a policy to refuse to explain what X action consists of. Reeks of bad faith.

  • #84
    4 years ago
    TredBobekTredBobek Posts: 7

    @Kyle_RE said:
    A ) Farming is using a mod designed to farm War Spoils. There are few mods in circulation that were designed to specifically exploit this system. Duplicates obtained through the use of these mods will not be salvaged into Supply.
    B ) If you didn't use these mods then you don't have to worry about it.
    C ) Yes, but ^
    D ) Abusing exploits are prohibited. Mods that were designed to exploit the War Spoils system fall into this category.

    So from now on Relic will check every mod, search for farm mods? Because this can't be automated, and I don't think it takes much of an effort to change a farm mod just a bit (change a few lines, the name of the mod etc., so it can hide from the hunters), and I have a feeling there's no capacity to do this searching.

    Fighting against farming seems futile.

  • #85
    4 years ago
    Hugo_AgogoHugo_Agogo Posts: 1

    I have to come clean and admit I was never a fan of War Spoils. I've played CoH2 since its release and I still love it. By the time War Spoils were first introduced, I already had all the Russian and Wehrmacht bulletins. Even now, I only occasionally play the USF, OKW or British. There's nothing wrong with them, it's just my choice. So, the fact that I get little from War Spoils is, largely, my own fault.

    Having tested the new system - to a minor degree - I can see only one significant difference. The uncertainty has been removed, with regard to timing. I now know I will get a drop after winning three games. The content of that drop will, very likely, be a duplicate for me, if I play either of my usual factions (I know there have been a few new bulletins added since I had to earn them the old-fashioned way).

    I don't mind that. It makes little difference. I can't actually remember the last time I got a new bulletin and thought "That's a perk worth using.". That's likely just me, though. I may not represent many other players but I don't usually play modded games; though I do like to use community maps. I've never stacked bulletins and I only use a certain combination of them, along with commanders that suit my style of play. Mostly, it works; so, I very rarely vary it.

    If the new system is going to allow players to trade whatever duplicate (or otherwise unwanted) bulletins for points to get bulletins they'd rather have, great. However, if all your traded points can get you is a random bulletin you may have just discarded; why bother? To be fair to Relic, having read other posts about this, I'm not sure what's actually being proposed. Hopefully, something that makes sense.

    Overall, I think the new system is an improvement; but not a huge one. It's not going to break the game. It's offering more to newer players but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It'll be a bit like prayer; no real evidence it's improving things but it won't do any harm, either.

  • #86
    4 years ago
    Mac50Mac50 Posts: 3

    So I would like to add my support for actually deducting points for people that join a game but do nothing, or continually drop. I am for anything that will reduce these behaviors.

  • #87
    4 years ago
    namelesswalnutnamelessw… USAPosts: 1
    edited May 2016

    I played 3 games with the new war spoil system and found it lacking in 3 major things:

    1. There is no modifier for difficulty. People can simply spam games with one easy bot to get the same amount of points compared to a game against normal, hard, etc.

    2. Activity and time modifier/ bonus. To avoid a scenario where you an expert bot to your team and an easy bot on the other to win games for you, add a system that monitors player activity.

    3. Play time bonus. It would bum me out to get 2000 points after a hard fought 8 hour game (I have had a game like that) Add a modifier that gives you extra points for the time you play. Perhaps +(x1.00) points/ minute of gameplay.

    These are EXTREMELY important and are in my mind. They should be required to prevent system abuse, and to reward players accordingly.

  • #88
    4 years ago
    Mr_RuinMr_Ruin Posts: 92

    @namelesswalnut said:
    I played 3 games with the new war spoil system and found it lacking in 3 major things:

    1. There is no modifier for difficulty. People can simply spam games with one easy bot to get the same amount of points compared to a game against normal, hard, etc.

    2. Activity and time modifier/ bonus. To avoid a scenario where you an expert bot to your team and an easy bot on the other to win games for you, add a system that monitors player activity.

    3. Play time bonus. It would bum me out to get 2000 points after a hard fought 8 hour game (I have had a game like that) Add a modifier that gives you extra points for the time you play. Perhaps +(x1.00) points/ minute of gameplay.

    These are EXTREMELY important and are in my mind. They should be required to prevent system abuse, and to reward players accordingly.

    1. So ppl who are not adept in this game should be penalized? Yes, I can defeat Expert comp every time, but there are ppl who cannot. So he will get less points cause he is not as skilled as me? System can be abused, but longevity of the game does not vary too much so playing against a weaker AI than you can is in most cases just plain boring. So if someone wants to be bored, let them be.
      Also, sometimes games against Easy if won too fast won't be acknowledged and you don't get points.

    2. New system checks are you AFK or not. So same applies, if you would rather sit aimlessly waiting for something to drip to you, knock yourself out. You have to be there anyway so you could actually play the game instead of waiting for AI to win it for you ...

    3. Well ok, maybe, but as someone from the developer team said you can have fun in both a long and short match. Also it would probably be abused as much as possible with just boxing opponent in his base and waiting to get as much points as possible.
      Maybe give 4000 points for 1h+ games? That way you don't feel cheated cause you get 2000 points as if you played a 7min match and yet still isn't farming.

  • #89
    4 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    @namelesswalnut said:
    I played 3 games with the new war spoil system and found it lacking in 3 major things:

    1. There is no modifier for difficulty. People can simply spam games with one easy bot to get the same amount of points compared to a game against normal, hard, etc.

    2. Activity and time modifier/ bonus. To avoid a scenario where you an expert bot to your team and an easy bot on the other to win games for you, add a system that monitors player activity.

    3. Play time bonus. It would bum me out to get 2000 points after a hard fought 8 hour game (I have had a game like that) Add a modifier that gives you extra points for the time you play. Perhaps +(x1.00) points/ minute of gameplay.

    These are EXTREMELY important and are in my mind. They should be required to prevent system abuse, and to reward players accordingly.

    1) While I believe there should be a modifier, there is the fact that people can just mod the games to abuse the system. Conversely, the mods I play tend to make the AI harder as they up the resource income and popcap, meaning they are more liable to spam units in higher difficulties, and in Expert they can call in multiple heavy tanks like Tigers, which is cheating by all accounts. Even standard AI playing as Soviets can throw AT grenades with units that are not Conscripts.
    Unmodified automatch versus AI, however, should implement a supply point modifier though, since the matches don't utilize any custom settings. I would say 0 bonus for Easy, 25 for Standard, 50 for Hard, and 100 for Expert. Not a lot to push people to try on difficulties beyond their capabilities, and the extra points barely equate to skipping over custom settings which always grant zero.
    As for spamming games, I would personally find it a waste of time to just sit around slugging easy AI when I can almost do the same with Standard, and perhaps a bit longer on Hard. Expert settings cheat with extra income and no heavy tank limits, so I don't consider them a legitimate level.

    2) I don't know how they can implement an effective time and activity modifier, and certianly shouldn't be a bonus to it. I also recall that in most games I play, the AI never goes into enemy HQ sector so that you have to finish them off (at least in Annihilation mode; this also tends to actually make the game harder, especially on larger map settings because the AI can quickly call in units that can wear down your men. An automated system would be very hard to perfect because it has to somehow decide that the mouse clicks you order are made by a human and not by propping your mouse onto something. I rather keep it simple and not get modifiers out of it. The game pauses if you alt-tab in a skirmish with AI anyways.

    3) Not possible since you can abuse it b just drawing out the time by being AFK. Matches are meant to be played and ended, not drawn out for extra points. While longer matches can bring about lots of fun, it could also be the result of a grinding match or a match where everyone's frustrated. It would just encourage the wrong type of gameplay, especially when one player decides to draw it out for more points but other players prefer to end it quickly.

    None of your ideas actually prevent player abuse, in fact I'd say they'd end up encouraging it. While I do prefer a more dynamic system that gives more or less XP based on X and Y, the game simply doesn't have the capability to make that possible. There is also the issue of supply point cost: bulletins cost a "measly" 1000 points, whereas commanders cost well over 10k.

  • #90
    4 years ago
    TimotheosTimotheos Posts: 2
    edited May 2016

    Alright I like the system but so far most of my drops have been for a faction I wasn't playing at the time, and I have not recieved any supply at all yet, it seems like new players will have a hard time getting what they want without grinding their lives away, anyone else experienced this yet?

    side note, is anyone still testing, I can only play custom games cause if I go automatch it just says 100% the faction I'm playing, is anyone else playing?

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