[Allies]Uber blob USF/UK

#1
2 years ago
ArdanotusArdanotus Posts: 21
edited June 2016 in Balance Feedback

since USF has been added to the game it has been the worst Blob faction in game, especially mid game when it they get bar and zook upgrades they become this unstopable blob of dead.. WE NEED A HUGE NERf for this, [removed] and apply something as negative cover for 3+ squads when they blob. Also riflemen and Section should only be able to upgrade 1 type of wp either at or AI..

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Comments

  • #2
    2 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498
    edited June 2016

    Blobs cannot be dealt with period. It's an unfixable part of the game. The only possible way I think this can be fixed is removing weapon racks.

    Edit: I definitely don't think blobs are op at all I just am trying to say that the nature of blobbing in itself is unfixable. Blobs however are easily dealt with with different tactics and strategies. I personally don't like the strategy of blobbing because it's really cheesy and doesn't really yield much benefit for either side.

  • #3
    2 years ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 526

    yeah but OKW blob more OP

  • #4
    2 years ago
    ArdanotusArdanotus Posts: 21

    @omar_emp said:
    yeah but OKW blob more OP

    dude that will be fixed with the next update where volks dont have shrecks anymore

  • #5
    2 years ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 526
    edited June 2016

    @Ardanotus said:

    @omar_emp said:
    yeah but OKW blob more OP

    dude that will be fixed with the next update where volks dont have shrecks anymore

    @Ardanotus said:

    @omar_emp said:
    yeah but OKW blob more OP

    dude that will be fixed with the next update where volks dont have shrecks anymore

    well, u can spam volks panzerfuast

    also whermacht can blob

  • #6
    2 years ago
    ArdanotusArdanotus Posts: 21
    edited June 2016

    @omar_emp said:

    @Ardanotus said:

    @omar_emp said:
    yeah but OKW blob more OP

    dude that will be fixed with the next update where volks dont have shrecks anymore

    @Ardanotus said:

    @omar_emp said:
    yeah but OKW blob more OP

    dude that will be fixed with the next update where volks dont have shrecks anymore

    well, u can spam volks panzerfuast

    also whermacht can blob

    a typical _omar_answer..... allies atleast have TNT charge, and a german blob cant get near a UK/USF blobs with upgrades

  • #7
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855
    1. OKW blobs are way more OP
    2. USF blobs are a problem
    3. I have no idea how you can get a UKF blob with their expensive units that are focused on defense.
  • #8
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,778
    Usf blobs are problem
    Ukf infantry too expensive
    *checks prices*
    Ummm
    *checks poster*
    Ah makes sense now...

    All blobs are a problem, the mg change will help but I think reducing the effectiveness of units when together via an exponential function would be great
    That way 2-3 units are slightly less effective but 4-5 are mostly meat instead of firepower

    This can be rationalized by not wanting to shot your comrade in the back while 57 men volley fire their way through all opposition
  • #9
    2 years ago
    ArdanotusArdanotus Posts: 21

    @thedarkarmadillo said:

    All blobs are a problem, the mg change will help but I think reducing the effectiveness of units when together via an exponential function would be great
    That way 2-3 units are slightly less effective but 4-5 are mostly meat instead of firepower

    This can be rationalized by not wanting to shot your comrade in the back while 57 men volley fire their way through all opposition

    true, but ppl have told relic about a fix like this since the start, i think the devs simply dont want to fix the game, mark my words this game will be free to play soon and support will be stopped by then will slowly bleed to dead like coh 1

  • #10
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,017
    Only real problem child is riflemen with AT nades and a bazooka. Otherwiiiise... MGs will mostly get you out of the jam. Mostly.
  • #11
    2 years ago
    VutherVuther Posts: 2,129
    edited June 2016

    Rifles could probably do with a small long-range DPS nerf now that they won't be have the excuse of needing to carry USF alone until they can tier up, and maybe another 5% off their received accuracy from vet 3.

    Only real problem with USF blobs themselves, other factors is stuff like Ostwind missing a little something for its price or 251/17 AA HT definitely needing a decent buff (I heard claims it actually doesn't actually have AoE suppression, which would probably be a good start). Grens leading HMG42s with PGs for backstopping Rifles approach behind smoke do the job fine for Wehr, if being quite one-dimensional for Wehr since the Ostwind is a bit under par - hopefully the T4 change should make Brummbars a more common sight. OKW should have no trouble with Rifle blobs next patch with HMG34s and an AI upgrade for Volks being newly at their disposal in addition to Luchs, Walking Stukas, Obers (which admittedly could use a reduction to MP cost and an increase to Muni cost).

    I see no issue with UKF Tommies what so ever, RoyEs are a separate issue (like being very likely to beat Axis rifle Infantry at close-range for 10 MP over Pioneers while the latter can only hope to maybe break about even MP-wise after retreating against Allied rifle infantry in close-combat or RoyEs reinforcing for half of the cost at vet 3 in addition to 0.66 RA).

  • #12
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 702
    edited June 2016

    @Lazarus said:
    Only real problem child is riflemen with AT nades and a bazooka. Otherwiiiise... MGs will mostly get you out of the jam. Mostly.

    The bazooka is overrated. Has only the a 50% chance to pen most vehicles and only does 80 damage.

    They are 99% less cheesy then PIATs (which have the stupid fucking deflection damage) and Panzershcieks which do 120 damage and have 170 (which is a near-guarantee pen on a lot of allied mediums) pen and take 5 hits to kill a tank (which is just two panzergren squads plus some luck).

    @Vuther said:
    Rifles could probably do with a small long-range DPS nerf now that they won't be have the excuse of needing to carry USF alone until they can tier up, and maybe another 5% off their received accuracy from vet 3.

    There's a reason that the patch barely touches any core infantry units. You change the core infantry of a faction the entire faction changes.

    Unknown to most riflemen actually rely on there long range DPS, without it Sturms and Assault grens (and later Pgrens) would be significantly harder to deal with. Both of which are early game units that the motor won't help against because they don't sit still.

    Add you have to remember the grenade range reduction under suppression change effects riflemen. They will be significantly less independent because of that alone.

    USF doesn't have a up tier infantry like axis factions which explains the strong mainline infantry.

  • #13
    2 years ago
    VutherVuther Posts: 2,129
    edited June 2016

    @WunderKatze said:
    There's a reason that the patch barely touches any core infantry units. You change the core infantry of a faction the entire faction changes.

    Unknown to most riflemen actually rely on there long range DPS, without it Sturms and Assault grens (and later Pgrens) would be significantly harder to deal with. Both of which are early game units that the motor won't help against because they don't sit still.

    Add you have to remember the grenade range change under suppression change effects riflemen. They will be significantly less independent because of that change alone.

    USF doesn't have a up tier infantry like axis factions which explains the strong mainline infantry.

    While true, I don't think Rifles will really need it to handle those units. They beat them as those units foolishly charge toward their cover efficiently and lose the same when they are ambushed at close-range. As none of these units have any chance at far-range, they must close in to the mid-range that Riflemen are also good at - there, only PGs have a chance, and their timing gives Rifles the opportunity to gain vet and a BAR beforehand to even up the equation.

    Additionally, the new changes will greatly improve the viability of an M2HB supporting the Riflemen anyway, and Captain tier doesn't lack options for heavy-duty anti-infantry.

    But you do make a good point that definitely should not be simply ignored, and if it does turn out to be an issue, upping Riflemen's mid-range DPS could be the right place to alleviate it - highlighting the Riflemen unit's specialty would hardly be a bad thing.

    Another good place to fix the potential issue of "Riflemen can't hold off close-range infantry effectively" would be to fix up Rear Echelon's Volley Fire ability without AI weapons, which is clearly made to help with something like that, but as we all know, people only use the ability once before never again. :p

  • #14
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 702
    edited June 2016

    @Vuther said:

    Additionally, the new changes will greatly improve the viability of an M2HB supporting the Riflemen anyway, and Captain tier doesn't lack options for heavy-duty anti-infantry.

    The M2HB is getting a utility change. That's all it's getting, it's not going to change anything in pure infantry+team weapon combat.

    It's just getting a penetration buff to soft counter the 222. It's AP bullets active does give slightly increased damage but that really won't change much considering not many people choose to sit in MG fire.

    Also activating it against infantry is like asking for the 222. to come and wreck your MG.

    Captain tier only has the Pak Howitzer in terms of AI which is not getting changed so it'll be the same as before. The Stuart is good against infantry but it's 70FU cost means it comes at the trade off of getting tanks later which can be a very dangerous trade off against Germans. You can't afford to just get one every time you need to combat german infantry.

    @Vuther said:
    But you do make a good point that definitely should not be simply ignored, and if it does turn out to be an issue, upping Riflemen's mid-range DPS could be the right place to alleviate it - highlighting the Riflemen unit's specialty would hardly be a bad thing.

    I don't think riflemen need changes.

    They actually don't have a specialty in mid range combat they just have decent DPS at all ranges which allows a USF player to engage enemy squads at whatever specific range they are weakest at. USF relies on this because they don't have specialized infantry for close quarters and long ranges.

    Riflemen are versatile like they are meant to be, they have good long range damage but not as good as Grens and good short range damage but not as good as Pgrens.

    If anything I think that the later tier German infantry needs a buff. Pgrens come in easy wipe four man squads which means they tend to die before really getting to shoot (restricting them to a sort of ambushing role) and obes are locked behind tier 3 and they suck at front line combat for various reasons.

  • #15
    2 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498
    edited June 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    1. OKW blobs are way more OP
    2. USF blobs are a problem
    3. I have no idea how you can get a UKF blob with their expensive units that are focused on defense.

    PIATs are reeeeallly strong because if they deal damage even without penetration and are really cheap and long range. Plus with IS's and Sappers durability, British can blob pretty easily.

    Bazooka is trash the only way its good is with like at least 4 squads with 2 bazookas each, and even then the bazooka cant really pen a heavier German tank from the front more than 20% of the time.

    Oh, and OKW blobs? Have you even heard of the May Balance Preview?

  • #16
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855
    1. Piats are garbage man, they almost never hit and the UKF can't blob easily sappers are weak and easily killed. IS's are super expensive and require 3 seperate expensive upgrades to be any good.
    2. Yes I have, the thing that hasn't been implemented yet? Yeah I know of it.
  • #17
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,017

    @WunderKatze said:

    @Lazarus said:
    Only real problem child is riflemen with AT nades and a bazooka. Otherwiiiise... MGs will mostly get you out of the jam. Mostly.

    The bazooka is overrated. Has only the a 50% chance to pen most vehicles and only does 80 damage.

    They are 99% less cheesy then PIATs (which have the stupid fucking deflection damage) and Panzershcieks which do 120 damage and have 170 (which is a near-guarantee pen on a lot of allied mediums) pen and take 5 hits to kill a tank (which is just two panzergren squads plus some luck).

    It's not JUST the bazooka though. It's the Bazooka and the AT Grenade on the same unit non-doctrinally. The whole point of "mediums can't be engine damaged above 75% hp" was to stop a single squad being able to gimp mediums. Riflemen still can, and once they do cripple it they can pose adequate threat as well. It also has a pretty decent RoF that shouldn't be ignored.

  • #18
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,587
    edited June 2016

    @Vuther said:
    Rifles could probably do with a small long-range DPS nerf now that they won't be have the excuse of needing to carry USF alone until they can tier up, and maybe another 5% off their received accuracy from vet 3.

    You think that why exactly?
    Mortar=less rifles on field=even more reason to keep rifles strong for infantry presence.
    .50 cal still arrives way too late to change anything for them.

    @Lazarus said:
    It's not JUST the bazooka though. It's the Bazooka and the AT Grenade on the same unit non-doctrinally. The whole point of "mediums can't be engine damaged above 75% hp" was to stop a single squad being able to gimp mediums. Riflemen still can, and once they do cripple it they can pose adequate threat as well. It also has a pretty decent RoF that shouldn't be ignored.

    Wrong, the whole point was to stop NON AT SQUADS from crippling tanks and getting away with it.

    Rifles with zooks are AT squad.
    Just like AT partisans, who carry shreck and AT nades, or PTRS cons or tank hunter IS.

    RoF on zooka isn't that much relevant as it still deals 50% less damage and then shreck and have much lower penetration, its effective only if you drop 300 muni worth of zooks on your units, but that significantly lowers AI, so use your AI inf to mow them down.

  • #19
    2 years ago
    omar_empomar_emp United Arab EmiratesPosts: 526

    @captainjordy said:

    @MCMartel said:
    1. OKW blobs are way more OP
    2. USF blobs are a problem
    3. I have no idea how you can get a UKF blob with their expensive units that are focused on defense.

    PIATs are reeeeallly strong because if they deal damage even without penetration and are really cheap and long range. Plus with IS's and Sappers durability, British can blob pretty easily.

    Bazooka is trash the only way its good is with like at least 4 squads with 2 bazookas each, and even then the bazooka cant really pen a heavier German tank from the front more than 20% of the time.

    Oh, and OKW blobs? Have you even heard of the May Balance Preview?

    paits cant hit fast moving vehicles which OKW and whermacht spam in early game

  • #20
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,778
    Build a mine if you fear 222/ luchs. They move much slower when their engine pops
  • #21
    2 years ago

    I've noticed that sappers require you to get a lot closer to tanks before they will fire their PIAT, even when attacking ground (which is always what I do with PIATS). The only way this would be effective is 3 x IS only with 2 PIATS each, 5 man squads. Way too expensive/risky play.

  • #22
    2 years ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 2,993 mod

    Locking this thread as it doesn't quite follow the balance forum guidelines. Feel free to provide feedback, but do try to be civil about it.

This discussion has been closed.

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