[USF] [ALL][81mm mortar]

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Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    whitesky00whitesky00 Posts: 407

    relic has spoken! balancing the mortar to proper stats. hoorah!

  • #33
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,728

    i think the usf are in a position now that ruifles can be toned down a bit. the mortar absolutly needs to be fixed (i read it has 120mm range? really?)
    strong frontline infantry backed by powerful (hell even AVERAGE if it was nerfed to that level) indirect makes a VERY uphill battle for the likes of the wehr, worse than before because usf had to delay teching to combat the mg42 effectively, no longer.

  • #34
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    The USF had no MG42 counter besides massive rifle spam, the mortar is necessary, and rifles are the core of the USF, nerf them and the USF falls apart. You just need a slight nerf or two to the mortar.

  • #35
    2 years ago
    hectichectic Posts: 132

    I'm so glad I found this topic, because I thought it was just my impression how accurate and lethal this mortar is. This game turned into a mortar spam and overall I don't like how this patch turned so far after few games I've played.

  • #36
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 701
    edited June 2016

    @Vipper said:
    It also mess with faction design.

    Weaker support weapons isn't part of their faction design. But yeah, with the bugs it's pretty broken.

  • #37
    2 years ago
    kingdun3284kingdun32… Posts: 1,090

    @WunderKatze said:

    @Vipper said:
    It also mess with faction design.

    Weaker support weapons isn't part of their faction design. But yeah, with the bugs it's pretty broken.

    Yeah, it's pretty broken, because that's how broken a vet 3 ost mortar is.

  • #38
    2 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    @MCMartel said:
    The USF had no MG42 counter besides massive rifle spam, the mortar is necessary, and rifles are the core of the USF, nerf them and the USF falls apart. You just need a slight nerf or two to the mortar.

    "Massive rifle spam" more like 1 smoke + frags.

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    i think the usf are in a position now that ruifles can be toned down a bit. the mortar absolutly needs to be fixed (i read it has 120mm range? really?)
    strong frontline infantry backed by powerful (hell even AVERAGE if it was nerfed to that level) indirect makes a VERY uphill battle for the likes of the wehr, worse than before because usf had to delay teching to combat the mg42 effectively, no longer.

    The mortar is not supposed to have that much range it's a bug. Riflemen are in no need of nerf since they're supposed to be strong as being the factions' only infantry besides Rangers (or if you're so bold then you could say Paratroopers) like what mcmartel said.

    I do think the mortar was a little ambitious of a change. I would've been fine with them giving USF a cheap and crappy 60mm mortar instead.

  • #39
    2 years ago
    LeoLeo Posts: 74

    Rifleman needs some nerf with this mortar a*s hitting everything that I can use to stop the massive blob. Even P4 cant stand zooks blob. Please Relic, USF is over over over performing right now.

  • #40
    2 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    @Leo said:
    Rifleman needs some nerf with this mortar a*s hitting everything that I can use to stop the massive blob. Even P4 cant stand zooks blob. Please Relic, USF is over over over performing right now.

    Eh, all mortars hit everything ever. That's coh2 all right. But 'zook blobs aren't really the problem. Bazookas are really weak as is and P4s definitely should be countered by zook blobs.

  • #41
    2 years ago
    LeoLeo Posts: 74
    edited June 2016

    @captainjordy said:

    @Leo said:
    Rifleman needs some nerf with this mortar a*s hitting everything that I can use to stop the massive blob. Even P4 cant stand zooks blob. Please Relic, USF is over over over performing right now.

    Eh, all mortars hit everything ever. That's coh2 all right. But 'zook blobs aren't really the problem. Bazookas are really weak as is and P4s definitely should be countered by zook blobs.

    3 rifleman can beat 3 grens every time. If you get mg42 to hold the blob, 2 usf mortar with range and accuracy can kill them. 4 models of mg42 get wiped in 2 shots. Late game, rifleman get much stronger with weapon racks upgrade and no armor unit can stand upto them. So instead of game providing counter vis counter for things, it is one faction having everything to win over other faction. Earlier rifleman were the best rifle units in the game because they lacked any counter to MG42 and mortar but now they can not only smoke but a blob of 4 rifleman with 2 mortars can pretty much dominate any axis unit early game. Get a stuart to counter light tanks and then sherman/m36.

    I would recommend nerf to rifleman to tone them down to match gren squad so that game is decided by skills instead. Reduce the price of rifleman and nerf them.

    And a blob of Zooks is very effective. Cost only 50 and each squad (5 models) can get 2 (so less wipe) compare to 90 that you pay for a single shrek that can only be equipped by 4 models sturmpios.

    PS- I play all 5 factions and I feel soviet/brits are fine now and penals though are little op but nothing you can't handle with light vehicle rush. But USF is OP right now.

  • #42
    2 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    Riflemen are supposed to be the best infantry at close range and Grens win at long range that's the reason why Grens have MG42s; to make them better at what they are supposed to do, fight at long range. Ostheer has Panzergrens to do the close range fighting. AT guns, panzerschrecks, and panzerfausts counter Stuarts. Mortars are given to USF to make it so building only riflemen early is not your only option.

    Riflemen dont need nerfs. If the game was decided by "skill only" then you would use Grens in cover at long range to fight Riflemen like how they're designed to.

    Bazookas don't pen heavy tanks unlike the Panzerschreck, and do less damage. With RNG on your side then maybe you can effectively unleash cancer on the world. And we all know RNG is on nobody's side.

    And yes, Sturmpioneers' schreck should be 60 munitions.

  • #43
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    @kingdun3284 said:
    Yeah, it's pretty broken, because that's how broken a vet 3 ost mortar is.

    Once more USF mortar is better at Vet 0 than Wer mortar and it is even better at vet 3.

  • #44
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    why are we still having this discussion open, it was just mentioned by a relic employee that the unit was launched with bugs that makes it over-perform. these things needs fixing and will get fixed.

    let us have this discussion again after its been fixed.

  • #45
    2 years ago
    whitesky00whitesky00 Posts: 407

    @Leo said:

    @captainjordy said:

    @Leo said:
    Rifleman needs some nerf with this mortar a*s hitting everything that I can use to stop the massive blob. Even P4 cant stand zooks blob. Please Relic, USF is over over over performing right now.

    Eh, all mortars hit everything ever. That's coh2 all right. But 'zook blobs aren't really the problem. Bazookas are really weak as is and P4s definitely should be countered by zook blobs.

    3 rifleman can beat 3 grens every time. If you get mg42 to hold the blob, 2 usf mortar with range and accuracy can kill them. 4 models of mg42 get wiped in 2 shots. Late game, rifleman get much stronger with weapon racks upgrade and no armor unit can stand upto them. So instead of game providing counter vis counter for things, it is one faction having everything to win over other faction. Earlier rifleman were the best rifle units in the game because they lacked any counter to MG42 and mortar but now they can not only smoke but a blob of 4 rifleman with 2 mortars can pretty much dominate any axis unit early game. Get a stuart to counter light tanks and then sherman/m36.

    I would recommend nerf to rifleman to tone them down to match gren squad so that game is decided by skills instead. Reduce the price of rifleman and nerf them.

    And a blob of Zooks is very effective. Cost only 50 and each squad (5 models) can get 2 (so less wipe) compare to 90 that you pay for a single shrek that can only be equipped by 4 models sturmpios.

    PS- I play all 5 factions and I feel soviet/brits are fine now and penals though are little op but nothing you can't handle with light vehicle rush. But USF is OP right now.

    Selective argument. Riflemen>Grens. Why don't you use those new sandbags to give your grens an advantage? Why don't you use a mortar and sniper to kill those pinned riflemen squads? They're all available to you. The USF mortar is OP because of a bug. Mid-late game, you have pgrens, bunkers, flamer halftrack, p4, mortar halftrack, ostwind, brumbar, instant pin pwerfer, and contrary to belief the 3 mgs of a panther are effective at killing infantry.

    And why can't you light vehicle rush USF? They don't have 2 zooks on their captain anymore. zook unlock requires travel back to base, no muni for grenades, and diminishes AI capability of riflemen in which grens and snipers are more than enough to handle riflemen.

  • #46
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Yeah, the mortar bugs are the problem, not riflemen. And I can't imagine the train of logic where a 280 mp infantry with multuiple fuel-heavy upgrades shouldn't be a 240mp infantry with no fuel investment required.

  • #47
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 701

    @Leo said:
    3 rifleman can beat 3 grens every time.

    You realize that riflemen are more expensive right? The 3 riflemen are 120MP more than the Grens.

    You know... OST has a higher win ratio than USF in every game mode except 1v1 at this moment.

  • #48
    2 years ago
    LeoLeo Posts: 74
    edited June 2016

    @WunderKatze said:

    @Leo said:
    3 rifleman can beat 3 grens every time.

    You realize that riflemen are more expensive right? The 3 riflemen are 120MP more than the Grens.

    You know... OST has a higher win ratio than USF in every game mode except 1v1 at this moment.

    Yes and that's why you need MG to pin them but right now bugged mortars kill mg42 in no time. That's why I said counter vis counter is destroyed by USF mortar. But now the hotfix is coming out, let's see what impact will it have on the actual game. So cannot comment now since I have not played the game after the hotfix.

    And I really hate this cost comparison thing. Please don't use it, since there are many units (Infantry + armor) that cost more but get owned by low cost units.

  • #49
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 701

    @Leo said:
    Yes and that's why you need MG to pin them but right now bugged mortars kill mg42 in no time. That's why I said counter vis counter is destroyed by USF mortar.

    Well, axis has been doing that to allied MGs since day one.

    All I can say is .222s and Panzergrens.

    @Leo said:
    And I really hate this cost comparison thing. Please don't use it, since there are many units (Infantry + armor) that cost more but get owned by low cost units.

    You're the one who started the comparisons...

  • #50
    2 years ago

    Played 2 games after the hotfix as us 4vs4. Axis couldn't stand a chance vs vickers+81mm with rifles swamming in. Still easy wipes for mortar cause of 4 man axis squads.
    Is it just me that find allies now even more easier than before the patch?

  • #51
    2 years ago
    LeoLeo Posts: 74
    edited June 2016

    @HellgateGuru said:
    Played 2 games after the hotfix as us 4vs4. Axis couldn't stand a chance vs vickers+81mm with rifles swamming in. Still easy wipes for mortar cause of 4 man axis squads.
    Is it just me that find allies now even more easier than before the patch?

    You are not the only one. Sadly Lelic have a tendency of doing this. From faction release to commanders...they take extreme steps to fix one thing which results in breaking the other.

  • #52
    2 years ago
    whitesky00whitesky00 Posts: 407

    I think it's just you and Axis players haven't gotten used to new build orders of OKW

  • #53
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721
    edited June 2016

    June 23 Hotfix

    Fixed a bug where the auto-fire range on the USF 81mm mortar was more than the barrage.

    Fixed a bug where some veterancy bonuses on the USF 81mm mortar wasn’t applying to the barrage and smoke barrage abilities.

    The 81mm mortar remains the most cost efficient "mortar" type weapon.

    That means that USF now not only have the most cost efficient mainline infantry but also the most cost efficient mortar being able to counter both the HMGs and mortars. In addition they have some of the most cost efficient light vehicles.

    That make the faction very strong at the open mid game.

    Imo the faction either need a less powerful mortar or weaker riflemen or weaker abilities/utility.

    For instance:
    Riflemen should have less DPS far even if their price goes down a bit.
    USF do not need smoke on their mainline infantry anymore.
    USF weapon upgrades should come later.
    Ambulance should become less effective or come later.

  • #54
    2 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    That US have smoke on their line inf is their main design. Only mortar needs much more nerfs.

    Less range and longer reload times.
  • #55
    2 years ago
    ofieldofield Posts: 630
    edited June 2016

    Even with the bugfix the usf mortar has still a significant higher rof for an insignificant higher cost. The 60mm preview mortar was alright. The 81mm renders the pack howi totally obsolete.

  • #56
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,014

    T0 mortar is ungodly. Leave it in the Barracks but lock it behind LT/Capt. At least delay the Jesus mortar

  • #58
    2 years ago
    GenObiGenObi Posts: 1,368
    yeah iam actually a little suprise, I though mortar was going to be along the lines of the preview mod
  • #59
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Returning it to balance preview levels with a slight accuracy increase (it couldn't hit the broad side of a barn in the balance preview, making it useless for hitting, well, basically anything)

  • #60
    2 years ago

    Currently at vet 3 that thing fires like a machine gun. It's popping mortars all day long, it requires a nerf

  • #61
    2 years ago
    hsk9146hsk9146 Posts: 153

    I've been playing a few games against USF and it seems that the mortar is way too accurate. it would kill way too many infantrymen making every engagement tip to their favor.

    Now, I just saw the 2v2 tourney and apparenty the mortar did like 1200% efficiency, doing 5600 dmg to infantry and having around 60 kills.

    I think that this is way too much anti infantry power. they have bars and rangers and m1919s.

    please balance the mortars accordingly

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