[USF] [ALL][81mm mortar]

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Comments

  • #152
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    I disagree that rifles need a nerf, they don't, the mortar does, it's too powerful

  • #153
    3 years ago
    hsk9146hsk9146 Posts: 153

    I haven't heard anyone complain about RMs. Do people though? Either way mortar is broken and unusable tbh. They might need some indirect fire options.

  • #154
    3 years ago
    hsk9146hsk9146 Posts: 153

    is there a way to buff garrison dmg but not outside dmg lol

  • #155
    3 years ago
    newshatterhandnewshatte… Posts: 278
    edited July 2016

    OST and especially OKW now even lag behind somewhat in 2v2 and 4v4 win ratios this week. Might be because of the mortar, though I could also see the TD buff causing this. http://coh2chart.com/

  • #156
    3 years ago
    FiresparksFiresparks Posts: 373
    edited July 2016

    @captainjordy said:
    Literally the US mortar comes at the exact same time as the Wehrmacht's mortar. Think about it. Pioneers build the first building and then you build mortar and all that takes just about the exact same time as if you built a Riflemen squad then the 81mm. It even takes 280 MP then 240 MP vs. building the first building plus the mortar for 100 MP then 240 MP. I guess I agree with increasing the mortar's build time if they give it identical stats to the Ostheer's mortar.

    Compare the two. The 81mm mortar has bugged auto fire so it's better there but the range bug was fixed. But then the 80mm mortar still has better abilities and has much better barrage accuracy.

    I mean, I guess you CAN get the US mortar out first since it takes 100 MP and 10 seconds to build the Wehrmacht's first >building, but like if you want to buy the 81mm mortar before a Riflemen squad, be my guest.

    what wehr player is going to build mortar for his first unit?

    the US barrage fire faster than the wehr mortar, despite being less accurate.

    The US mortar vet 1 and vet 2 also enhance the scatter on the barrage. This means that the US barrage both fire faster and more accurately at vet1. By comparison, the wehr counter barrage is useless.

    This is ignoring the fact that the US mortar autofire is so overpowered the US doesn't even use the barrage ability.

  • #157
    3 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    what wehr player is going to build mortar for his first unit?

    the US barrage fire faster than the wehr mortar, despite being less accurate.

    The US mortar vet 1 and vet 2 also enhance the scatter on the barrage. This means that the US barrage both fire faster and more accurately at vet1. By comparison, the wehr counter barrage is useless.

    This is ignoring the fact that the US mortar autofire is so overpowered the US doesn't even use the barrage ability.

    First off, thanks to Relic being dumb, you cant use the barrage of the US mortar since it's so damn inaccurate until vet 1. Secondly, my exact point is that no one in their right mind are going to build a mortar as their first unit. Ever.

    Now, the Wehrmacht, and don't forget Soviets, have that exact same option of building a mortar as their first unit meaning it's really not that big of an advantage. Anyways this is why I suggested increasing the mortars cost to 280 and at that point there's no reason the mortar shouldn't have stats identical to the Wehrmacht's mortar (as well as adjusted veterancy).

  • #158
    3 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 730

    @Lazarus said:
    Riflemen need an appropriate nerf now that they aren't carrying the USF on their shoulders.

    I don't think nerfing Riflemen is the way to go.

    The faction is designed around them. It would be like nerfing MG42s or OST mortars. It would totally destroy the unique playstyle of the faction. The mortar should be made a rilemen support tool. Short range, reduced cost and worse auto attack. Give the USF a 60mm mortar with 60mm mortar stats.

  • #159
    3 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229

    This motor has way too much accuracy. It always hits its target,and guarantees one model loss on impact, unless under green cover. I have lost entire squads in one shot from the US motor in every game I played against Americans.

  • #160
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    @raulmagana121707 said:
    This motor has way too much accuracy. It always hits its target,and guarantees one model loss on impact, unless under green cover. I have lost entire squads in one shot from the US motor in every game I played against Americans.

    losing entire squads isnt really that hard as wehr only has 4 man squads. happens frequently with any given mortar, the question simply is, how high accuracy should it have.

    not more than Wehr mortar anyway.

  • #161
    3 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 730
    edited July 2016

    @Firesparks said:
    The US mortar vet 1 and vet 2 also enhance the scatter on the barrage. This means that the US barrage both fire faster and more accurately at vet1. By comparison, the wehr counter barrage is useless.

    You've obviously never used the 81mm before. The barrage is never more accurate than any other mortar no matter what vet you have. It is very inaccurate. It does fire much much faster in barrage than any other mortar but unless you get up really close the barrage is pointless to use against weapon teams.

    But as you say the barrage is not needed because the autofire is so accurate. The attack ground is the same way. IMO the attack ground on the USF mortar is better than the barrage on other mortars. That's how stupidly strong the USF mortar is.

  • #162
    3 years ago
    QuesocitoQuesocito Posts: 128

    @WunderKatze said:

    @Firesparks said:
    The US mortar vet 1 and vet 2 also enhance the scatter on the barrage. This means that the US barrage both fire faster and more accurately at vet1. By comparison, the wehr counter barrage is useless.

    You've obviously never used the 81mm before. The barrage is never more accurate than any other mortar no matter what vet you have. It is very inaccurate. It does fire much much faster in barrage than any other mortar but unless you get up really close the barrage is pointless to use against weapon teams.

    But as you say the barrage is not needed because the autofire is so accurate. The attack ground is the same way. IMO the attack ground on the USF mortar is better than the barrage on other mortars. That's how stupidly strong the USF mortar is.

    agreed. the single shots are the biggy not the barrage

  • #163
    3 years ago
    BobzenhoBobzenho Posts: 5

    @Kyle_RE said:
    The mortar was launched was some bugs that are making it over-perform. It is being looked into and will be patched this week.

    Any news about some update for the issue?

  • #164
    3 years ago
    ValkyrieValkyrie Posts: 2,132

    The mortar is a really nice addition. The USF needed it badly. The Axis factions have been allowed to dictate the terms of a fight since release - It's time to shake that up a little. The mortar does well to make Axis players react, instead of just putting up what they want, where they want, and then just sitting back.

  • #166
    3 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 730

    @Kyle_RE said:
    We have recently squashed some bugs with the USF mortar that will have an effect on it's current performance. We are currently in the process of testing these bug fixes to ensure stability and effectiveness of the changes. We anticipate launching these fixes sometime early next week and patch notes will be provided at that time.

    Garden yeah!

  • #167
    3 years ago
    KoenigKoenig Posts: 71

    How about, removing it first, then reintroduce it when you've fix the bugs, it's completely wrecking 1v1 game balance.

  • #168
    3 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    @Koenig said:
    How about, removing it first, then reintroduce it when you've fix the bugs, it's completely wrecking 1v1 game balance.

    Eh, they've left game breaking bugs in the game longer. Remember the Vickers range bug? That took like a week for them to fix.

  • #169
    3 years ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270

    Mortar fix the bug USF is good news, but I hope that others bugs are relevants:
    1. Stun nade bug
    2. JP4 phase-shifting camo bug

  • #170
    3 years ago
    KoenigKoenig Posts: 71

    @captainjordy said:

    @Koenig said:
    How about, removing it first, then reintroduce it when you've fix the bugs, it's completely wrecking 1v1 game balance.

    Eh, they've left game breaking bugs in the game longer. Remember the Vickers range bug? That took like a week for them to fix.

    True, but i dont think the brits would work without the vickers. USF can easily live without the mortar.

  • #171
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    @Koenig said:

    @captainjordy said:

    @Koenig said:
    How about, removing it first, then reintroduce it when you've fix the bugs, it's completely wrecking 1v1 game balance.

    Eh, they've left game breaking bugs in the game longer. Remember the Vickers range bug? That took like a week for them to fix.

    True, but i dont think the brits would work without the vickers. USF can easily live without the mortar.

    even if you say that, i bet the Brits could survive without vickers as well. people will find a way but that doesnt mean its a fun way of playing.

    playing USF before the mortar was just rifleman spam at the early game. that was boring and dull and meant you were forced to tech grenades early to deal with MGs.

  • #172
    3 years ago
    KoenigKoenig Posts: 71

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Koenig said:

    @captainjordy said:

    @Koenig said:
    How about, removing it first, then reintroduce it when you've fix the bugs, it's completely wrecking 1v1 game balance.

    Eh, they've left game breaking bugs in the game longer. Remember the Vickers range bug? That took like a week for them to fix.

    True, but i dont think the brits would work without the vickers. USF can easily live without the mortar.

    even if you say that, i bet the Brits could survive without vickers as well. people will find a way but that doesnt mean its a fun way of playing.

    playing USF before the mortar was just rifleman spam at the early game. that was boring and dull and meant you were forced to tech grenades early to deal with MGs.

    Now its mortar "spam" instead and exploiting the fact that it simply never misses a stationary target - I fail to see this to be an improvement.

    Not to mention the fact that the missing requirements for grenade tech now allows the Stuart to be fielded earlier - the best light tank in the game with the second lowest teching cost.

    Note: I'm very much in favor of giving the USF a mortar - even at tier 0, though I really think it should be accompanied of a removal of the rifleman smoke grenade.

  • #173
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited July 2016

    @Koenig said:

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Koenig said:

    @captainjordy said:

    @Koenig said:
    How about, removing it first, then reintroduce it when you've fix the bugs, it's completely wrecking 1v1 game balance.

    Eh, they've left game breaking bugs in the game longer. Remember the Vickers range bug? That took like a week for them to fix.

    True, but i dont think the brits would work without the vickers. USF can easily live without the mortar.

    even if you say that, i bet the Brits could survive without vickers as well. people will find a way but that doesnt mean its a fun way of playing.

    playing USF before the mortar was just rifleman spam at the early game. that was boring and dull and meant you were forced to tech grenades early to deal with MGs.

    Now its mortar "spam" instead and exploiting the fact that it simply never misses a stationary target - I fail to see this to be an improvement.

    Not to mention the fact that the missing requirements for grenade tech now allows the Stuart to be fielded earlier - the best light tank in the game with the second lowest teching cost.

    Note: I'm very much in favor of giving the USF a mortar - even at tier 0, though I really think it should be accompanied of a removal of the rifleman smoke grenade.

    why is this the second best light vehicle in the game? (and for that matter, what is the best one?) i get that it has nice abilities, but those abilities are centered around vehicle support, so use infantry or AT guns. if you panzerfaust it it becomes crippled and you need a total of maybe 3 fausts or something to kill it. Dealing with the stuart is easier for me when i play Wehr than it is to deal with an early Luch when i play soviets. at least fausts arent tech needed.

    Whether the Stuart is the most powerful or not depends on what faction its up against. Stuart is nothing compared to an early Luch when you went tier 1 as soviets.

    Furthermore what is this spam you refer to? in my games, people get 1 maybe 2 mortars and maybe 2 or 3 riflemen. how is that a spam? i agree the mortar performs too well but how is this actually a spam? the USF faction doesnt have an early game MG, meaning, they only have riflemen to stop your hordes from reaching the mortar. if you buy 2 mortars, you have only few riflemen left to actually defend the mortars due to the lack of MGs.

    again, im not saying the mortar isnt performing a bit over the edge, but no one spams this unit, and if he did, you have NO trouble just advancing your own soldiers to take em out, because nothing will stop you.

    whether riflemen should lose their smoke grenades is up for debate. i personally dont know what i think of this.

  • #174
    3 years ago
    KoenigKoenig Posts: 71

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Koenig said:

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Koenig said:

    @captainjordy said:

    @Koenig said:
    How about, removing it first, then reintroduce it when you've fix the bugs, it's completely wrecking 1v1 game balance.

    Eh, they've left game breaking bugs in the game longer. Remember the Vickers range bug? That took like a week for them to fix.

    True, but i dont think the brits would work without the vickers. USF can easily live without the mortar.

    even if you say that, i bet the Brits could survive without vickers as well. people will find a way but that doesnt mean its a fun way of playing.

    playing USF before the mortar was just rifleman spam at the early game. that was boring and dull and meant you were forced to tech grenades early to deal with MGs.

    Now its mortar "spam" instead and exploiting the fact that it simply never misses a stationary target - I fail to see this to be an improvement.

    Not to mention the fact that the missing requirements for grenade tech now allows the Stuart to be fielded earlier - the best light tank in the game with the second lowest teching cost.

    Note: I'm very much in favor of giving the USF a mortar - even at tier 0, though I really think it should be accompanied of a removal of the rifleman smoke grenade.

    why is this the second best light vehicle in the game? (and for that matter, what is the best one?) i get that it has nice abilities, but those abilities are centered around vehicle support, so use infantry or AT guns. if you panzerfaust it it becomes crippled and you need a total of maybe 3 fausts or something to kill it. Dealing with the stuart is easier for me when i play Wehr than it is to deal with an early Luch when i play soviets. at least fausts arent tech needed.

    Whether the Stuart is the most powerful or not depends on what faction its up against. Stuart is nothing compared to an early Luch when you went tier 1 as soviets.

    Furthermore what is this spam you refer to? in my games, people get 1 maybe 2 mortars and maybe 2 or 3 riflemen. how is that a spam? i agree the mortar performs too well but how is this actually a spam? the USF faction doesnt have an early game MG, meaning, they only have riflemen to stop your hordes from reaching the mortar. if you buy 2 mortars, you have only few riflemen left to actually defend the mortars due to the lack of MGs.

    again, im not saying the mortar isnt performing a bit over the edge, but no one spams this unit, and if he did, you have NO trouble just advancing your own soldiers to take em out, because nothing will stop you.

    whether riflemen should lose their smoke grenades is up for debate. i personally dont know what i think of this.

    I've played several games against usf where 2 mortars hit the field even before the first level of teching - Spam was not to be taken literally (hence the double quotes). Charging the mortars may work with OKW, but the ostheer need to keep riflemen at range, and their weapon upgrades demand that they remain stationary. Get a few BAR's out and even panzergrenadiers have to keep their distance as well.

    I don't see see why faust are any better at dealing with tanks than at-grenades - oraah definitly makes flanking easier, which is really what is required against a well microed tank. The stuart comparatively does better damage at max range than the luchs (my assumption it that this is contributed to better AOE).

  • #175
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited July 2016

    Fausts arent better than AT grenades (i think) but requires no teching, and when you tech up as Wehr, you DO have access to an AT gun, something which tier 1 soviets do not. hence why early Luchs for soviets who went tier 1 is a complete ***** to deal with.

    besides if he goes heavy mortar, then save your munitions on your grens to buy a flame halftrack as fast as possible. the price was even reduced to 90 munitions.

    its usually my strategy and it works like a charm every time. it comes out before the stuart so you wont have to worry about it being taken out by that, and the enemy has minimum AT at the time. he can carry bars for all i care, the flame halftrack still wins big time. just keep out of AT riflegrenade range.

    but all of this doesnt really matter if they just go ahead and be reasonable about the mortar, and nerf it a little to regular Wehr standard.

    that should be fine imo rather than how it works now.

  • #176
    3 years ago
    QuesocitoQuesocito Posts: 128
    edited July 2016

    Mortar needs an accuracy nerf. When im losing to OST i go morts, when im losing to US, i steal a mort.. When im winning vs US its coz i stole a mort.

    As much as i love to us the 81mm it needs a nerf.

    I feel that fausts have a lower wind up time than US AT nades and are the same as SOV? Just feels like SOV range is also lower, but theyre probably all the same.

    SOV is really hard up vs OKW or OST if they make 1 tech mistake.. everyone else is much more leniant.

    Also cant u get a Capt as quickly as OST can get a flame track? Lots of enemies have sent flame tracks at me and i always have a lazy Capt lying around and its so quick to get a zook to chase the track away. Maybe its coz i delay tech on the weapons rack... Cozii prefer micro to blobbing ubermensch riflemen :D

  • #177
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    well. one captain does not really counter the flame halftrack. if anything you can attack ground while driving backwards so all your captain ends up doing is burning while running.

    with some clever play a flamehalftrack has only vehicles and mines as enemies. well that and AT guns standing, also cleverly.

  • #178
    3 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    @Quesocito said:
    Mortar needs an accuracy nerf. When im losing to OST i go morts, when im losing to US, i steal a mort.. When im winning vs US its coz i stole a mort.

    The US's mortar isn't even that much more accurate than the OST's mortar and its barrage accuracy is like half of the OST's mortar. Once it gets bug fixed later it'll be fine. They already increased its cost to 260 MP.

  • #179
    3 years ago
    ofieldofield Posts: 630

    @captainjordy schrieb:

    The US's mortar isn't even that much more accurate than the OST's mortar and its barrage accuracy is like half of the OST's mortar. Once it gets bug fixed later it'll be fine. They already increased its cost to 260 MP.

    Yes and no, it's way more accurate on auto fire(5 vs 8 scatter), but less accurate when using the barrage ability. (7 vs 8). In any case it has 20-25% faster RoF. Also i still see a problem with the pack howi (currently costs ridiculous 11 popcap), which is rendered obsolete by the mortar.

    i think that the mortar is a much needed tool for the usf early game, but i don't like it in its current form.

  • #180
    3 years ago
    QuesocitoQuesocito Posts: 128
    edited July 2016

    @Beardedragon said:
    well. one captain does not really counter the flame halftrack. if anything you can attack ground while driving backwards so all your captain ends up doing is burning while running.

    with some clever play a flamehalftrack has only vehicles and mines as enemies. well that and AT guns standing, also cleverly.

    i think ive just been fortunate enough to only play against people that werent able to micro the track that well. i myself havent used it in ages since i find it becomes obsolete too quickly. or that 1 capt and a lucky AT nade means the end of it.\

    @captainjordy as @ofield stated, on auto fire, or attack ground its very accurate. ive seen it for myself, i dont need stats to tell me. i attack ground on specific models and it almost always hits. definitely had theo most squad wipes per shot using it

  • #181
    3 years ago

    I think the issue is with axis as well. The mortar needs a slight nerf but axis needs a buff. Even if the USF mortar is nerfed to oblivion, soviet still has a 63% winrate over axis in 1v1.

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