Lend Lease tactics revamp

#1
4 years ago

The Soviet lend lease tactics commander is really nice but some things in that commander I think need some tuning. Lemme start with a rundown of the commander itself and my solutions:

2 CP: DShK HMG - Very nice machine gun but lackluster vs vehicles. Now I know you might say "But its a machine gun, its meant to fight people!" True, but it is a .50 cal and has armor piercing rounds that dont really do anything. This makes it just a maxim on steroids.

My idea: Increase penetration to 6 and make its vet 1 armor piercing rounds give +25% damage along with +30% penetration and make the MG available at 0 CP at the Support Weapon Kampaneya.

4 CP: Allied Supply Drop - I rarely find myself using this. It's just unappealing and almost worthless. Sure, when its late game and we're crushing them and I have 600+ munitions I spam it as much as possible because Russians don't ever use munitions and hey, free fuel, why not? But 100 munitions for 30 fuel, not to mention the uber weakeness to AA (Schwerer, Ostwind, Scout car)? Not a good trade in my mind and I would much rather have an entirely different ability.

My idea: Replace it with a 4 CP recon loiter because it keeps the aircraft idea but it is also something that is very useful and I'll find myself using all throughout the game.

5 CP: Conscript Repair - Very nice ability, no changes necessary.

5 CP: M5 Half-Track Assault Group - It's a nice ability all around since its a call-in but the Guards troops it gives are just so awkward. I can't really classify them in a certain catagory. The rifles make them not an assault squad but with 6 PPShs then I would rather just have Shock troops.

My idea: Rename them Guards Assault Infantry and give them 6 SVTs with an upgrade for 3 PPShs for 40 mun and an RGD-33 grenade for 45 mun and tripwire flares at vet 1 and Oorah at vet 2

10 CP M4C Sherman - Amazing vehicle but has one flaw. The tech skipping. Now of course I love that I can skip tech and build time with a call-in but I feel like a tank that good against infantry and medium armor should be from a base. Also I would love the option of quick teching and getting it way before the 10 CP mark.

My idea: Make it available at 0 CP at the Mechanized Armor Kampaneya.

Comments

  • #2
    4 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    2 CP: DShK HMG - Very nice machine gun but lackluster vs vehicles. Now I know you might say "But its a machine gun, its meant to fight people!" True, but it is a .50 cal and has armor piercing rounds that dont really do anything. This makes it just a maxim on steroids.

    My idea: Increase penetration to 6 and make its vet 1 armor piercing rounds give +25% damage along with +30% penetration and make the MG available at 0 CP at the Support Weapon Kampaneya.

    The commander is 'Lend Lease' which means you get stuff from USA/UK without building them. I prefer DShK to be available at 1 CP with penetration as you suggested. But let it have passive armor piercing rounds and vet1 sprint as it is little more costly than maxims and arc ain't big either.

    4 CP: Allied Supply Drop - I rarely find myself using this. It's just unappealing and almost worthless. Sure, when its late game and we're crushing them and I have 600+ munitions I spam it as much as possible because Russians don't ever use munitions and hey, free fuel, why not? But 100 munitions for 30 fuel, not to mention the uber weakeness to AA (Schwerer, Ostwind, Scout car)? Not a good trade in my mind and I would much rather have an entirely different ability.

    My idea: Replace it with a 4 CP recon loiter because it keeps the aircraft idea but it is also something that is very useful and I'll find myself using all throughout the game.

    I suggest the same in Soviet Industry tactics... Recon flight is much useful than Allied supply drop.
    But my idea is.... USA light truck with .50 cal machine gun at 1 CP call in.... for 220 MP and 15 fuel.. (to justify Lend lease)

    @captainjordy said:

    10 CP M4C Sherman - Amazing vehicle but has one flaw. The tech skipping. Now of course I love that I can skip tech and build time with a call-in but I feel like a tank that good against infantry and medium armor should be from a base. Also I would love the option of quick teching and getting it way before the 10 CP mark.

    My idea: Make it available at 0 CP at the Mechanized Armor Kampaneya.

    I never skip T4 because of Shermans and I never spam Shermans. After getting 2 Shermans, I will go t4 and later get Ketyusha if the enemy is blobbing or SU85 if he's going tank heavy build. Shermans are costly, just do as much of that a T34 and after the recent buff for T34, I guess I prefer T34 more than Shermans. I prefer M4 Shermans call in to be moved to 9CP and some armor upgrade to it(either through purchase or by veterancy like a Stug or a P4). I suggest never go for more than 2 Sherman.. as it would just be like going more than 2 p4 and it will make the microing harder and Shermans are not so reliable. You may need a artillery or tank destroyers late game.

    Overall, the commander is OK. DShK needs some buff and should be moved down by 1 cp so does Sherman. Supply drop should be changed to some other commander ability.

  • #3
    4 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498
    edited July 2016

    @Sri_vaka said:
    The commander is 'Lend Lease' which means you get stuff from USA/UK without building them. I prefer DShK to be available at 1 CP with penetration as you suggested. But let it have passive armor piercing rounds and vet1 sprint as it is little more costly than maxims and arc ain't big either.

    Well, first off you still get stuff from the USA w/out build times (M5 half-track) and secondly the DShK isn't from USA it's purely Russian. Also having AP rounds at vet 1 is fine since it also increases damage by 25%.

    @Sri_vaka said:
    But my idea is.... USA light truck with .50 cal machine gun at 1 CP call in.... for 220 MP and 15 fuel.. (to justify Lend lease)

    That's literally the Scout car from the Special Rifle Command...

    @Sri_vaka said:
    I never skip T4 because of Shermans and I never spam Shermans. After getting 2 Shermans, I will go t4 and later get Ketyusha if the enemy is blobbing or SU85 if he's going tank heavy build. Shermans are costly, just do as much of that a T34 and after the recent buff for T34, I guess I prefer T34 more than Shermans. I prefer M4 Shermans call in to be moved to 9CP and some armor upgrade to it(either through purchase or by veterancy like a Stug or a P4). I suggest never go for more than 2 Sherman.. as it would just be like going more than 2 p4 and it will make the microing harder and Shermans are not so reliable. You may need a artillery or tank destroyers late game.

    "Never skipping T4 because of Shermans" is the point. Now you'll tech to T4 and have Shermans right as you finish the building, before the 10 CP mark and have SU85s and Katyushas AND T-34s available with them.

    By the way, Shermans have better stats than any medium tank besides the Easy 8 (and possibly the T-34/85) so I don't know why you keep saying Shermans are unreliable. I've played the commander many times and found them to be better than T-34s against infantry and tanks.

    @Sri_vaka said:
    Overall, the commander is OK. DShK needs some buff and should be moved down by 1 cp so does Sherman. Supply drop should be changed to some other commander ability.

    I guess the DShK should be a 1 CP call-in but I like Sherman at 0 CP so you can get it out faster.

  • #4
    4 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    @captainjordy said:

    @Sri_vaka said:
    But my idea is.... USA light truck with .50 cal machine gun at 1 CP call in.... for 220 MP and 15 fuel.. (to justify Lend lease)

    That's literally the Scout car from the Special Rifle Command...

    Well.. you can skip T1 when you have this in your commander and you can put flamer in it and harass MG in buildings.

  • #5
    4 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    @Sri_vaka said:
    Well.. you can skip T1 when you have this in your commander and you can put flamer in it and harass MG in buildings.

    That's really not necessary since there is only 5 commander abilities and I would much prefer having all of the listed commander abilities. DShK, Recon run, cons repair, etc.

  • #6
    4 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    @captainjordy said:
    2 CP: DShK HMG - Very nice machine gun but lackluster vs vehicles. Now I know you might say "But its a machine gun, its meant to fight people!" True, but it is a .50 cal and has armor piercing rounds that dont really do anything. This makes it just a maxim on steroids.

    My idea: Increase penetration to 6 and make its vet 1 armor piercing rounds give +25% damage along with +30% penetration and make the MG available at 0 CP at the Support Weapon Kampaneya.

    I too think Dshk is a bit of a strange unit idea. It's basically more expensive and often not better than Maxim, so the only real benefit is you can call it in a bit early and either skip T2 or be focused with getting mortar or AT Gun instead. If it performed a different role, like being better against light vehicles and not as against infantry I'd think the unit would work better: it would sort of bridge the Maxim/ AT Gun gap a bit while not being great in either role. As-is, it's just Maxim clone with arguably same-ish stats, plus you'd just use it like the Maxim, so there's no tactical differences. Which means when you encounter an opponent with Dshk, you don't think "OMFG that's not Maxim gotta change tactics", instead you think "Oh he's gone X commander, so I'll choose another commander".
    If the role of the Dshk is changed to include a greater AT but lesser AI role then that would not happen, in the same way you don't look at the Raketen43 as just OKW's Pak40, it's something that can be put inside buildings and be cloaked, so you act differently; but none of that happens with the Dshk.

    @captainjordy said:
    4 CP: Allied Supply Drop - I rarely find myself using this. It's just unappealing and almost worthless. Sure, when its late game and we're crushing them and I have 600+ munitions I spam it as much as possible because Russians don't ever use munitions and hey, free fuel, why not? But 100 munitions for 30 fuel, not to mention the uber weakeness to AA (Schwerer, Ostwind, Scout car)? Not a good trade in my mind and I would much rather have an entirely different ability.

    My idea: Replace it with a 4 CP recon loiter because it keeps the aircraft idea but it is also something that is very useful and I'll find myself using all throughout the game.

    Actually the simplest and most practical solution is to just make the plane invincible, just like the Ostheer equivalent, which is more versatile because it costs manpower and can be dropped as either munitions or fuel. Making it recon is kind of okay, but I think as a unique ability it should stay and be tweaked to address existing problems, which are very simple ones.

    @captainjordy said:
    5 CP: M5 Half-Track Assault Group - It's a nice ability all around since its a call-in but the Guards troops it gives are just so awkward. I can't really classify them in a certain catagory. The rifles make them not an assault squad but with 6 PPShs then I would rather just have Shock troops.

    My idea: Rename them Guards Assault Infantry and give them 6 SVTs with an upgrade for 3 PPShs for 40 mun and an RGD-33 grenade for 45 mun and tripwire flares at vet 1 and Oorah at vet 2

    I suppose the idea is that if they're Shocks they're too powerful, but with Conscripts or Penals the ability is just two stock units put together, so they cobbled this up as a compromise. It's weird but I think operationally speaking it's fine.
    Seeing as the vehicle is stock, I'd just suggest removing the halftrack altogether and have it as either classic Guards/ Shocks, or a modified Guards where they come only with DP-28 with upgrade for Ppsh. You get a doctrinal unit that acts a bit differently than other Guards, and have the versatility of upgrades.
    Or if you want to keep the Lend-Lease theme, they spawn rifles but can upgrade to Thompsons: the Soviets used them in WW2, albeit very limited in time and amount.

    @captainjordy said:
    10 CP M4C Sherman - Amazing vehicle but has one flaw. The tech skipping. Now of course I love that I can skip tech and build time with a call-in but I feel like a tank that good against infantry and medium armor should be from a base. Also I would love the option of quick teching and getting it way before the 10 CP mark.

    My idea: Make it available at 0 CP at the Mechanized Armor Kampaneya.

    Yeah I'm a bit confused about this one: many medium call-in tanks were relegated to T3-4 unlocks, but not the M4C. The closest comparison is USF's Easy Eight. If it's a call-in then at 10CP it comes a bit late, and at least blitzing to T4 allows you to get them a bit earlier. But I'm a bit ambivalent on this one.

  • #7
    4 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498
    edited July 2016

    @comrade_daelin said:

    @captainjordy said:
    5 CP: M5 Half-Track Assault Group - It's a nice ability all around since its a call-in but the Guards troops it gives are just so awkward. I can't really classify them in a certain catagory. The rifles make them not an assault squad but with 6 PPShs then I would rather just have Shock troops.

    My idea: Rename them Guards Assault Infantry and give them 6 SVTs with an upgrade for 3 PPShs for 40 mun and an RGD-33 grenade for 45 mun and tripwire flares at vet 1 and Oorah at vet 2

    I suppose the idea is that if they're Shocks they're too powerful, but with Conscripts or Penals the ability is just two stock units put together, so they cobbled this up as a compromise. It's weird but I think operationally speaking it's fine.
    Seeing as the vehicle is stock, I'd just suggest removing the halftrack altogether and have it as either classic Guards/ Shocks, or a modified Guards where they come only with DP-28 with upgrade for Ppsh. You get a doctrinal unit that acts a bit differently than other Guards, and have the versatility of upgrades.
    Or if you want to keep the Lend-Lease theme, they spawn rifles but can upgrade to Thompsons: the Soviets used them in WW2, albeit very limited in time and amount.

    Yes, that was another thing that bothered me about this ability was that the M5 half-track was a stock unit and since I've never skipped building that building before, that part of the ability was pretty useless. I was thinking about suggesting they change the ability altogether with Guards or Shocks.

  • #8
    4 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824

    swap DSHK with an actual .50cal and crew, keep at 2 cp
    fueldrop should be multiple planes each carrying a set amount a fuel, they COULD be shot down, but its no longer an all or nothing type ability
    con repair is golden
    arm assault guards with garands with a muni upgrade for 2 thompsons
    m4c is fine

  • #9
    4 years ago
    YoghurtYoghurt Posts: 77

    @thedarkarmadillo I like the fueldrop idea. It would be a great improvement. But I love to use the DSHK, and it's only in this commander (excluding defensive tactics).
    It is ridiculously good, so if you were to buff its AP then you should probably tone it down in another way. My suggestion is to lower the aoe suppression a bit. The gun has a comparatively low rpm so it can't cover a larger area in a hail of bullets like an MG42 can. For compensation, the penetration gets a buff and the AP rounds ability should last 40 secs instead of 30. You lose a few seconds to the loading and set up anyway.

    A necessary change for the halftrack is to make it available much sooner. At 5CP it's way too late. It should be at 3CP when you usually hit T3.

  • #10
    4 years ago
    ADMADM Posts: 35
    edited September 2016

    Pretty good suggestions here.

    DSHk 38 should be nondoctrinal MG since it was standart machine gun in WW2. There is not a single consctructive reason why it should be doctrinal. Make it nondoctrinal aviable to be build in T2 building for increased cost (minimum 300mp).

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