[OKW][ALL] Sturmpios' schreck is too awkward

#1
3 years ago

I think schreck on sturmpios in the current state isn't good and feels awkward and here are the problems with it.
In combat you need to keep AT squads safe at long range so they won't get focused. Because of that AT weapons work well only on long ranged troops so they can stay at long range and do some damage vs infantry until a vehicle shows.
The first problem with schreck on sturmpios is that this squad is only good up close. So you either run up close, do some damage and get forced away or you stay at range and be useless vs infantry. You can say "What about pgrens and sappers?". The reason that AT upgrade works well on them is because they get 2 weapons as opposed to 1 and can be used as dedicated AT. You just don't send them vs infantry unless you have an edge in the engagement.

The second problem is that sturmpios is a 4 man squad so schreck cuts a lot of AI dps. So sturmpios are neither good vs AT because they have only 1 shreck or vs AI because the dps is too limited.

I see 2 solutions for this. The first is that sturmpios should be able to unequip schreck similar to the minesweeper. That way they can still be good vs infantry while keeping the ability to fend off a vehicle.

The second solution is give them 2 schrecks. This can work too though I don't like this too much because sturmpios would be a better version of AT pgrens.

Also cold immunity should be removed from the upgrade and its price should be reduced to 60-70.

Comments

  • #2
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    I agree with the idea of SP'S being able to put away their shreks. It would keep nicely in tune with their overall great utility and make them sort of a unit you can custumize into whatever purpose you'd like. It also wouldn't make them too powerful imo. Just more customisable. :)

    I don't agree with them having two shreks though. As you say, it would simply make them better pgrens and lord knows we have enough units from the OH, that the newer factions does better.
    Also, you'd still be faced with the shite situation of losing your muni and mp heavy squad to some random bullcrap, just like the pgrens, which is always a bummer. :(
  • #3
    3 years ago

    nah, i disagree with putting them away. When units carry weapons, you can see that and react to that. Now, they can sort of just pop them out of nowhere. Example, i see 2 sturm squads and i use a clown car to slowly pick them off. All of a sudden 2 shrecks pop up and my unit(50% chance?) and vehicle get wiped. Not a fan to hidden weapons.

  • #4
    3 years ago
    SlyzorSlyzor Posts: 51
    edited September 2016

    @whitesky00 said:
    nah, i disagree with putting them away. When units carry weapons, you can see that and react to that. Now, they can sort of just pop them out of nowhere. Example, i see 2 sturm squads and i use a clown car to slowly pick them off. All of a sudden 2 shrecks pop up and my unit(50% chance?) and vehicle get wiped. Not a fan to hidden weapons.

    The icon can stay I think. Not sure if relic is capable to program that though. But even if they don't you can just assume that Sturms have shreck similar to how you assume that conscripts have AT nades. And I'm not sure if you clown car would survive to the point when there are 2 sturm squads with schrecks.

  • #5
    3 years ago
    Im against it. There is no precedent for putting away AT weapons except the hilariously OP AA rangers. It removes the weakness of getting AT which is not something we want.
  • #6
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    If Ardennes Assault has taught me anything, it's that strong mid range units that can equip/stow AT weaponry at will makes a fantastic blob unit. For that reason I'm gonna have to say no to the idea.

  • #7
    3 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    Only change the Schrek needs is to remove mutual exclusivity with the minesweeper and maybe a cost reduction.

  • #8
    3 years ago
    If you can get sweepers and shreks I think the bonus repair speed needs to go away.
  • #9
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    It wasn't an issue for the last 4 years with PGs, its not an issue with SPs really.

  • #10
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    @Katitof
    Well, I think it's two different tastes of potato-mash to really compare them tbh.
    The SP's are a weird bunch carrying around the shrek I think. They feel more squishy than the pgrens and they pay more for their shrek-upgrade than them too.
    Plus they have shite AT support to have a synergy with. The Rak are too cost-inefficient to really boost their overall AT power and the OKW PIV comes too late and cost too much for what it does. At least the pgrens have the PaK40 backing them up.

    At least the shrek-upgrade should be reduced to 60 muni's imho.
  • #11
    3 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    If you can get sweepers and shreks I think the bonus repair speed needs to go away.

    Definitely, the higher base value + sweeper bonus + vet bonus would be insane otherwise.

  • #12
    3 years ago

    @Katitof said:
    It wasn't an issue for the last 4 years with PGs, its not an issue with SPs really.

    But pgrens get 2 schrecks. SPs are a different story.

  • #14
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    @Slyzor said:

    @Katitof said:
    It wasn't an issue for the last 4 years with PGs, its not an issue with SPs really.

    But pgrens get 2 schrecks. SPs are a different story.

    And spios are starting, free squad.
    Different story indeed.

  • #15
    3 years ago

    @Katitof said:
    And spios are starting, free squad.
    Different story indeed.

    Well that doesn't mean that okw should get bad infanry based AT. It's not like raketen is good too.

  • #16
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    @Slyzor said:

    @Katitof said:
    And spios are starting, free squad.
    Different story indeed.

    Well that doesn't mean that okw should get bad infanry based AT. It's not like raketen is good too.

    Its not bad.

    It just can't be used as stand alone AT.

    And raks are amazing from vet1 onward especially now, that volks got faust.
    They are more micro intensive then standard ATG, but also more flexible then one, you can actually "push" with them and retreat them when needed to preserve vet, something other ATGs can't do.

  • #17
    3 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,331 mod

    Raketen are brilliant early game, especially when cameo, or in buildings. It's a T0 unit, don't demand too much out of it.

  • #18
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    edited September 2016
    @le12ro
    I wouldn't say that we demand too much of it really. Just some kinda increase in cost-efficiency honestly.
    The thing is T0, true. It's the cheapest stock AT-gun, double true and it's got some nice abilities attached to its usage, triple true. BUT...

    You don't NEED it to be T0. You could push it back to T1, without too much hassle.
    It's still 270mp.
    And it's abilities quickly get overshadowed when it death-loops endlessly, don't want to hit anything above grass-level, has trouble pen'ning the bigger tanks and dies if if you use harsh language at it. All of which are problems most other stock AT-guns don't have.
  • #19
    3 years ago
    If you push the rak to t1 it means losing a building possibly leaves no at available. Having no AT AT all until teching is a huge disadvantage...
  • #20
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    @thedarkarmadillo
    Which is why the cost of the SP's shreks should go down to 60 muni's to compensate. Nobody will spam them even at 60 muni's, because they are on a high risk squad, as opposed to the Volks.
  • #21
    3 years ago
    hsk9146hsk9146 Posts: 153
    Talking about munitions pfusillier g43 overpriced?
  • #22
    3 years ago
    GrittleGrittle Posts: 993

    @Baálthazor said:
    @thedarkarmadillo
    Which is why the cost of the SP's shreks should go down to 60 muni's to compensate. Nobody will spam them even at 60 muni's, because they are on a high risk squad, as opposed to the Volks.

    That doesn't make sense

    If I were to choose between spio shrek or rackten, most of the time I would choose the rackten.

    What should happen is that spio shrecks get reduced to 80, maybe 75 muni.

    But in my personal fanboi opinion, Shrecks could be ~60 muni. but you'll have to Remove Volk Panzerfaust and move it to fortifications doctrine

  • #23
    3 years ago

    @hsk9146 said:
    Talking about munitions pfusillier g43 overpriced?

    Of course. And G43s that you get are weaker than wehr g43s so I'm not sure why the price is so high.

  • #24
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,674

    @Slyzor said:

    @hsk9146 said:
    Talking about munitions pfusillier g43 overpriced?

    Of course. And G43s that you get are weaker than wehr g43s so I'm not sure why the price is so high.

    You get sight increase as well and the whole squad is pretty much superior in every single way to grens, short for durability per model.

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