In your opinion, what is currently the main balance concern in COH2?

#1
3 years ago
Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin
edited October 2016 in Balance Feedback

In your opinion, what is currently the main balance concern in COH2? 372 votes

Light vehicles (such as the Stuart & T70) over performing
14% 55 votes
USF Mortar over performing
27% 101 votes
Lack of viable commanders for Soviet & Wehrmacht
21% 80 votes
Wehrmacht infantry not scaling in late game
16% 61 votes
Wehrmacht's lack of counters to light vehicles
2% 11 votes
Soviet Penals over performing
3% 13 votes
Soviet Guards Rifle over performing
2% 10 votes
Other
11% 41 votes
«13456789

Comments

  • #2
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,091

    If I have to pick one thing that needs immediate fixing it's the USFs mortar - though honestly it's a whole mishmash combination of things including the Stuart (capitalizing on the lead the mortar gave you) and Rifle vet 3 (meaning any squad wipes that are replaced have 0 chance to catch up).

    Welcome back from your vacation and thanks for asking the forum for its input.

  • #3
    3 years ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434
    edited October 2016

    You're making us choose just one!? I'm very glad they have all been picked up upon though. Thank you.

    If "Wehrmacht's lack of counters to light vehicles" means a new unit or two I'd try that first than nerf the allied light vehicles to oblivion. But in this instance I voted for USF MORTAR. It is very OP at the moment.

  • #4
    3 years ago
    RappyRappy Posts: 39

    Wow. Only pick one? What is that about?

  • #5
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855
    edited October 2016

    USF Mortar is a problem, that is, far and away the biggest problems, some of these aren't problems at all!
    Penals DEFINTIELY don't need a nerf, cause they get cut to ribbons by volks with assault rifles. Also, there are at least 2-3 good commanders for both soviet and wehrmacht, really more or about the same as for OKW now that there is no reason to ever get panzer fusiliers and there's really only one or two workable USF commanders too. And light vehicles, at least the 222, t70, and the AEC are finally performing about right, I don't know about the stuart as I don't really play USF.

  • #6
    3 years ago
    RappyRappy Posts: 39
    edited October 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    Penals DEFINTIELY don't need a nerf, cause they get cut to ribbons by volks with assault rifles.

    Right, that is simply NOT TRUE. Penals win at ALL ranges except extreme long range where its a toss up who will win. Try it in Cheatcommand Mod. In and out of cover, with or without flamer. Nothing could be more of an exaggeration to say Penals get cut to ribbons by Stg volks.

  • #7
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,822
    @rappy well thats not right, a 300MP AI only unit beating a 250MP generalist unit (complete with anti garrison/cover grenades and a snare)

    On topic I think usf mortar should be priority number one, then tuning the Stuart, then (when playing against the usf is a bit more bareable) take the time you need to reinvigorate the Ostheer like you did with the Soviet. And finally, once every army has a solid core (ive always said that you will have balance when all factions can square off without requiring a certain doctrine to be competitive) work on fixing the old crap shoot,hodge podge, designed to be micro transaction and not to be played commanders.
  • #8
    3 years ago

    Um... all of them?

  • #9
    3 years ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270

    The answers do not reflect all need balance.
    Most people playing coh2 is the axis. Therefore there will always vote and feedbacks for its majority. Whereby relic always be away from the balance.

    All this is based on 3v3 / 4v4
    -Bugs OKW/Brits. They are a lot of bugs, this should be a priority.
    -KT Wipe squads/ATguns allied in 1 or 1/2 shots very easily, now only has counters as tanks or arty/rockets/plans. When fixed they may be used many more tactics such as approaching a conscript and use ATnades or closed a simple Atgun.
    -Abandon Heavy vehicles. It is something common to see 1KT/Pershing extra or other heavy tank. Whatever the side to pick up this abandoned tank is a huge advantage, because it saves a lot of resources and also has an extra tank completely unbalances the game in favor of the collecting tank.
    -Arty/Rockets their pop should be increased as heavy tanks, because it is currently a festarty in 3v3 / 4v4
    -ForwardHQ (Brit, US, OKW) must be located in the base sector or near sector base, this would balance largely with the other 2 factions that do not use this advantage.

  • #10
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    edited October 2016
    It's very difficult to only pick one in this setup, because just as there are synergies between units in-game, there are also synergies between overperforming/underperforming stuff in-game.

    Squishy OH infantry, hyper firing USF mortar, NASCAR light tanks, T-800 riflemen, call-in guards meta, ect, ect. It ALL ties into each other and fixing one without the other would be like taking aspirin for Ebola.
  • #11
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343
    edited October 2016
    1. Nerf bugs
    2. USF mortar is an easy and fast fix that will make a world of difference in the game
    3. Commander call-in units need to be integrated into the tech tree, like how it was done with Easy8 and T34/85's
    4. Light vehicles need a fix so that they are not such no-brainers

    First two are obvious.

    Last two (light vehicle rush followed by no-tech call-in spam) have been a thorn in 1v1 for a year or more, and have been killing strategic diversity in their game, ever since their inception.

    Fix them, and 1v1 will stop being the 1-strat, copy-paste snoozefest that it currently is.

    Once you've fixed the call-in commanders (all of them), and reigned in light-vehicle rushes, then immediately:

    • OST doesn't need a counter to light vehicles so urgently
    • OST can invest in a bit more AI to counter penals
    • A significantly larger portion of commanders become more attractive

    Basically, by addressing those two issues, you are, indirectly, addressing more than half of the issues you put up in the poll.

    Glossary

    Call-in commanders:

    • Anything that can spawn a vehicle on demand (i.e., instantly, and with no tech requirements) that is stronger or equal to a Puma or Stug-E
      (just integrate the call-in vehicles into the tech tree. Heavy tanks should require that all tiers be built)

    Light vehicles:

    • T70
    • Stuart
    • AEC
    • Luchs
    • Puma
    • 222
      (you need to nerf all of them at the same time, or none at all)

    Light vehicle meta and Call-in meta should be fixed at the same time:

    • Ostheer currently relies on call-in units to survive the light-vehicle war
    • However, if any player picks a call-in doctrine, the other must also pick the call-in doctrine, otherwise they become completely disadvantaged

    (this is like the prisoner's dilemma, in terms of game enjoyment)

  • #12
    3 years ago
    CnoHcop_KBHCnoHcop_K… Posts: 3
    edited October 2016

    It's ok points to choose in this vote (can't stop laughing about ''Soviet Guards Rifle over performing''), but please do something with SU:

    1) Advanced warfare tactics - IL-2 in this doctrine costs to much, deals no damage to vehicle, cooldowns 1 min or more for 3 sec yellow supression at infantry (?!) - absolute useless. This commander is totaly dead now. Reduce it cost and cooldown or change it to rocket il-2.

    2) Please, give conscripts new life or role or smf. Give more pph43 in doctrins, not at 2 battle stage, but in late game. Also PTRS should be used by them not only at "tank hunter tactics''. At least make two granade upgrades as one.
    Many players outraged by anti-tank partisans. But there is no way to stop light vehicle at early game. Zis? Only crustaceans can't kill 1 stand zis with luchs. Cons? No way they can run close enough. Mines? ok.. it's the only way we have. It will be fair enough, to make partisans spawn with granade at cooldown, but cons need ability to buy PTRS at headquartes.

    3) SU has the only anti-air gun - M5 quad. And it is totaly useless against enemy planes. Please, compare it's perfomance to another AA guns.

    4) Look to ''urban defense tactics''. Headquarters cost 60 fuel and couters with 1 mortar, 1 flamefrower or 2 grenades. Too expensive. Please, reduce it fuel cost, and give retreat point upgrade.

    5) Every conscript and penal in our Motherland dreams about comrade commissar, who can lead them infront to enemy mg42. Wermaht has officer. OKB has officer. US has officer. UK has officer. What about commissar?!

    6) At 1941-1943 SU solders, and citizes complete lots and lots km of tranches, deploy awesome numders of mines. Please, give tranches/tanktranches to engineer squad, or mg position or smth. I understand, what SU here is offensive fraction, but we need another ways to play, not only rushing with 4xT34 or 4xCONS or smth.

    7) Zis-3 gun at some doctrines can use ambush ability. I think it should be more usefull. Ambush fails, if enemy infanry seen by zis crew - they start fireing with mosin rifles. Also, ambush need some bonuses, as i know, now it is accuracy at 1st shot. What about damage and penetration? Just like raketenwerfer 43 has at some vet. Anti-tank guns ambushes was significant tactic SU at WW2.

    8) Katusha must be more usefull when used ability (which costs ammunition).

  • #13
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited October 2016

    The number one issue imo is vet bonuses and vet abilities. The game has seen dramatic changes, yet these variables have not seen changes almost since the game was released. Almost all EFA units vet the same and get the same abilities even though they have completely different roles.

    As I have pointed out in other threads simple changes in veterancy bonuses and abilities can help in balance and in building more than one type of unit.

    For instance conscript would not been used at all if Penal when available they did not provide the AT grenade. So it is extra utility (that could come form a vet ability also) that makes them more appealing.

  • #14
    3 years ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 129

    Change of commanders at the tips. From PPSH-41 to DP-28. PPSH-41 should have already as the Germans, US and British troops.

  • #15
    3 years ago

    Everything is ideal, fix only bugs and then everything will be good

  • #16
    3 years ago

    @Vipper said:
    The number one issue imo is vet bonuses and vet abilities. The game has seen dramatic changes, yet these variables have not seen changes almost since the game was released. Almost all EFA units vet the same and get the same abilities even though they have completely different roles.

    This.

  • #17
    3 years ago

    222 imba ©GoYellowFox top 2

  • #18
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343
    edited October 2016

    @Mr_Smith said:
    1. Nerf bugs
    2. USF mortar is an easy and fast fix that will make a world of difference in the game
    3. Commander call-in units need to be integrated into the tech tree, like how it was done with Easy8 and T34/85's
    4. Light vehicles need a fix so that they are not such no-brainers

    I forgot to mention the following:
    5. Improve squad formations

    Give every single infantry squad in the game (including Soviet snipers) the Tommy squad formation. That will already go a long way to fixing things.

    You can further improve formations by:

    • Making the 6-th man of a 6-man formation be situated towards the mid. Currently he's sitting right on top of another model.
    • Changing 4-man formation so that there's 2 people in the left flank, 1 person in the core, 1 person in the right flank

    All of these changes will make it easier for your squad to spread out when you issue a move command in the opposite direction.

    This is the leading cause of squad wipes due to AoE:

    • Normally when the enemy fires a mortar at you, you have to jerk your squads around
    • if, at any point, you issue a command to move backwards, most of the models in the squad will clump up in a single location, making a lucky hit extremely devastating.

    (e.g., 3-men riflemen squads will literally bunch up to a single model if you tell them to move back)

    Tommy formation isn't perfect. However, it is, by a long-shot, consistently better than other existing formations in the game.

  • #19
    3 years ago
    vasa171960vasa171960 Posts: 92
    edited October 2016

    1) USF mortar and that fact that USF and brits infatry can have for 2 brens/bars/1919 its really killing infatry battles, coz with axis you dont have chance to give answer like this.
    2) Fot me t-70 are fine (his time when he arrive), but stuart and luchs come to early, if nerf this like write Mr.Smith its need nerf all of them.
    3)And ye, Ostheer and Soviet have so many docs, but most part of them are bad (all popular docs are with callins units), need fix them to bring more opeinings into the game.
    4)Vermaht infatry are fine in late game, the main proble for them its 2 bars/brens/1919 and brits trench.
    5) Need fix tonns of bugs and some callins or there time of arrive (like com panther), need nerf comets, buff b4 (20 popcap so bad), shocks, nerf shtuka dive bomb.
    6) And maps, maps need fix or give more veto. Coz some maps in 2v2 are not for 2v2, thay are to big or to small or ugly or just bad or bad north/cutoff sides.

  • #20
    3 years ago
    GuooffGuooff Posts: 2

    The game has a problem with AutoFill. On balance there are no special problems. People just used to playing through a single button.

  • #21
    3 years ago
    To my mind, usf mortar is the most problematic right now. But axis has some very imbalance things too. Command panther is a beast. It has a very powerfull ability. Its too good. Plus it has aura. To my mind it must be nerfed or cost increase. Light veicheles on the right spot. Maybe we can nerf stun shot of stuart, but thats about it. Guards are okay. Penals dunno. If we nerf them, they would be useleth again. Maybe we can remove flamethrower from them.
  • #22
    3 years ago
    WalkiWalki MunichPosts: 18

    How about giving Wehrmacht/Ostheer an elite infantry unit? Knight's Cross Holders like in CoH1, something that can take on commandos or shocktroops. So far there's nothing doctrinal nor non doctrinal that can compete. You always have to play a combination of MG + Panzer/Grenadiers to even remotely counter them.

  • #23
    3 years ago

    USF And USSR Don`t have non-doctrine tanks to fight Panthers :с

  • #24
    3 years ago
    LeodotLeodot Posts: 6

    @Mr_Smith said:

    @Mr_Smith said:
    1. Nerf bugs
    2. USF mortar is an easy and fast fix that will make a world of difference in the game
    3. Commander call-in units need to be integrated into the tech tree, like how it was done with Easy8 and T34/85's
    4. Light vehicles need a fix so that they are not such no-brainers

    I forgot to mention the following:
    5. Improve squad formations

    Give every single infantry squad in the game (including Soviet snipers) the Tommy squad formation. That will already go a long way to fixing things.

    You can further improve formations by:

    • Making the 6-th man of a 6-man formation be situated towards the mid. Currently he's sitting right on top of another model.
    • Changing 4-man formation so that there's 2 people in the left flank, 1 person in the core, 1 person in the right flank

    All of these changes will make it easier for your squad to spread out when you issue a move command in the opposite direction.

    (e.g., 3-men riflemen squads will literally bunch up to a single model if you tell them to move back)

    Do just what Mr_Smith said. Please!!! (1 to 5)

  • #25
    3 years ago
    0ld_Shatterhand0ld_Shatt… GERMANYPosts: 5

    Just copy Mr Smiths Mod, so that most of the bugs are fixed, when we can look further into balance.

  • #26
    3 years ago
    PhyPhy Posts: 6

    Really? We need to choose from a list of things which need to be fixed? Why there's nothing about OKW raketen underperforming, sidetech too expensive or mg34 being pure crap?

  • #27
    3 years ago
    bloberblober Posts: 13

    Hello Kyle, comet surpasses the panther or churchill endures more than king tiger, in reality it's just not possible.

  • #28
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Frankly, Penals perform fine, guards peform fine, UKF is underpowered and needs help (their win rate is below everyone's but ost), it's conscripts and grens that need help! Also the USF mortar.

  • #29
    3 years ago
    dmsdms UKPosts: 531

    Light vehicles but this includes the OST flamer HT and 222 coming at 1 cp well before guards, any tank hunters, brit ATG or first piat for example. Mortars inc the wher one are just too easy and accurate to use.

  • #30
    3 years ago

    I don't think Kyle is asking for how-to guys, but for priority. Honestly, for me it's like relying on community advise is the very last thing the balance team for a RTS game needs.

  • #31
    3 years ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 122
    edited October 2016
This discussion has been closed.

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