[UKF] [ALL] British Emplacement Counterplay

2456714

Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468
    edited December 2016

    https://media.giphy.com/media/qwl2InsJNEm88/giphy.gif

    How brace curretly performs.
    Gosh I loathe that ability. It definately needs to be beat down abit with the nerf stick. Figuratively of course.
    I'm all for doubling or even tripling the amount of damage it should take with flame-based weapons. Anything to put a stop to, "trololol, ill just use my invincibility button"

  • #33
    2 years ago
    I agree that brace should only provide a bonus defence to indirect fire as you are helpless against it being static but if you cant hold a line and the enemy breaks through you desirve to bleed. Flame weapons and certain big boomers (brummbar and sturmtiger for example) should not be reduced by brace these units are supposed to counter an entrenched position, neither the soviet nor the usf have any meaningful defensive options, a faction comes along perfect for these units and their purpose can be negated with the click of a button.

    Hell, an unbraced mortar pit has enough health to survive a sturmtiger rocket- as if that level of hand holding wasnt enough brace leaves it with over half health iirc

    Allow flame and big boomers to ignore brace but allow the vickers back inside to compensate if needed
  • #34
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    That's ridiculous, that would completely ruin the entire UKF faction because any two bit engineer unit could destroy a braced emplacement. USF and Soviets aren't supposed to be defensive-oriented factions, the UKF are, that's asymetric balance. Emplacements cannot more or retreat, without brace, they completely fall apart, brace in it's current form is 100% necessary for them to work.

  • #35
    2 years ago

    @MCMartel said:
    That's ridiculous, that would completely ruin the entire UKF faction because any two bit engineer unit could destroy a braced emplacement. USF and Soviets aren't supposed to be defensive-oriented factions, the UKF are, that's asymetric balance. Emplacements cannot more or retreat, without brace, they completely fall apart, brace in it's current form is 100% necessary for them to work.

    agreed. honestly i would rather have regular mortars than the mortar pit due to it not being able to move. Brace structure is the emplacement equivilent to retreat. this is a must on the emplacements because if not, they just get wrecked.

    i dont find the ability OP when using it, and i dont find the ability OP when fighting against it.

    if the british buys a BOFOS, use mortars. if he buys Mortars, run in with shreks or AT.

    he cant build both at once and getting both up takes a lot of manpower. due to this, he wont have much infantry if he wants to build both and lets throw in the forward assembly in the mix thats another manpower loss.

    the brace structure is absolutely vital.

  • #37
    2 years ago

    I will just be plain blunt here: Farra13 you got a point!

  • #39
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Yeah how ridiculous that defensive emplacements should need to...I dunno, defend things.

  • #40
    2 years ago
    If they nerf the survivability of emplacements they should become cheaper. They are quite an investment already. They cost fuel and popcap (mg42 bunker doesnt cost pop, or that has changed )

    I dont think certain units should get a damage buff vs emplacements. But if they do some allied units should as well vs flak hq ;)
  • #41
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,029

    @MCMartel said:
    Yeah how ridiculous that defensive emplacements should need to...I dunno, defend things.

    There's a difference between "defend" and "lock down this area at 7 minutes until 15 when a medium tank, mortar/artillery and an ATG are spare".

    Brace invalidating ALL kinds of damage as much as it does is just a crutch and its low cooldown limits available counterplay. Having dedicated counters isn't going to break the UKF. It's going to make them actually defend their emplacements.

    @TheLeveler83 apples to oranges. The OKWs flak HQ is a tech structure AND it doesn't have brace. At all. Allied units will do full damage to the Flak HQ 100% of the time they attack it, and it isn't more durable than a medium tank. This is exclusively a British emplacement issue.

  • #42
    2 years ago

    Just come across russian repair stations repairing ukf emplacements while in brace and using the commanders repair ability. Hahaha broken AF man.

  • #43
    2 years ago
    Flak hq durable as a meduim tank? That quite a meduim tank i geus.
    And a tech structure that can also lock down an area and negate planes, infantry play quite well. Sounds somewhat like an emplacement as well, just no control over the gun.

    This all while not costing popcap and and not sacrficing field precense.

    Only brace is the isseu with its cooldown and duration and the dedicated counters are not.
  • #45
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited December 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    That's ridiculous, that would completely ruin the entire UKF faction because any two bit engineer unit could destroy a braced emplacement. USF and Soviets aren't supposed to be defensive-oriented factions, the UKF are, that's asymetric balance. Emplacements cannot more or retreat, without brace, they completely fall apart, brace in it's current form is 100% necessary for them to work.

    Ruin what exactly... in its current form UKF is not a defensive faction, rather a one with great units + bonus stats when in cover making them even better + terminator emplacements...

    Tommys are offensive

    Engineers are super cheap and effective

    Cromwell beats panzer 4

    Also Comet, brit arty, commandos, land matress, Firefly, list goes on...they for sure are NOT defensive ......

  • #46
    2 years ago

    @MCMartel said:
    Yeah how ridiculous that defensive emplacements should need to...I dunno, defend things.

    Yes, defending; an act in which the player, uses to skill to control his units to defend an area in combination with his built defensive structures. This includes using micro-management, displacing of units carefully as to not leave structures unsupported.

    Near invulnerability requires; No skill.

    brace in it's current form is 100% necessary for them to work.

    No sir, the damage they put out is very, very effective. On top of that, their normal amount of durability is quite respectable.
    Every other faction that can build forward emplacements, allied and axis included, has to work in combination with thier structures. In other words, you have to put this thing called "effort" in defending with your structures, not having them defend you. Invulnerability is as armadillo put it is, "hand holding".

  • #47
    2 years ago

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Your missing the point. A late game antistructure unit should be the answer to... Structures. Is immobility a good enough reason for a 400mp structure to require 2 hits from a sturm tiger without you actually intervening? If brace is "retreat" what is the "more health than a medium tank" feature compinsating for? Is the bofors so weak it needs 1000 hp without accounting for brace? Thats 7 shots from standard tank damage, meaning if i had 2 paks you could survive 3 volleys unbraced, or if i parked a medium tank infront of your bofors you could kill the medium tank with an at gun faster than the tank would kill the bofors unbraced (add brace for guaranteed save)

    Keeping an emplacment alive is EZ even into the late game. You shouldnt need an all out assault with literally everything you have in order to kill one, because that means a single bad engagment puts you on the back foot and its possible for emplacments to go full on stage 4 cancer. There is no reason a brummbar shouldnt surpass brace ( at which point it will STILL need 7 shots amounting to almost a minute (56 seconds using a flat 8 second reload, but reload is actually slightly greater than 8 seconds)

    name 1 reason why a brummbar shouldnt be able to reliably kill a bofors within 60 seconds. I cant think of a single one myself...

    how do you counter a BOFOS pit? with 2 mortars. if you place it too far on the front line, it gets killed fast, if you place it too far away from the frontline, it becomes useless for the remainder of the battle.

    the Mortar pit cost 400 yet like any mortar crew cant shoot in front of it. the british are not known for having a huge infantry army by the start of the game, so this mortar pit wont be placed with a huge army backing it. beat that army and you can literally just run up to the mortar pit.

    further more the brits dont even have a defense against early game mortars given that they need to tech up first and THEN get engineers, and THEN buy a 400 mp mortar pit. as wehrmacht its not a horrible strategy to get 1 MG (maybe 2), 2 grens, 2 mortars, in the early game, and then rush out a flamehalf track sa the brits dont even have AT nades.

    with this you can smash his bofos with your mortars, and you can smash his mortar pit with a flame halftrack. if they brace so your mortars have issues versus the BOFOS, by all means, keep shooting. eventually you start hitting his engineers so they have to retreat. and if he starts shooting in to the air with the bofos, well by all means, move your mortars like 5 feet to the right and you're good to go. it takes a while from when you first hear its shooting sound in to the air, till the shells actually land.

    the mortar/bofos is only really insanely strong when placed near each other. individually? they have some very big exploits to use.

    it can feel overpowered when they brace and have the commander that can heal em without engineers, but thats a problem related to that specific commander, not brace structure. and yea the bofos could tone down its damage a bit. even against retreating units will it eat them for breakfast.

    but the brace structure itself is needed.

  • #48
    2 years ago
    Im not talking about early game, in talking late game cancer. You will notice me talking about specifically the brummbar. Thats not early game. And even without brace it will take a whole minute to kill a bofors with brace it takes much longer. This is what i am saying. There is no conceivable reason the brum shouldnt pierce the brace, same with the sturm tiger. Its not like either of these unit will be able to kill your emplacments before you can click on the map but they will still hurt you, as they rightfully should
  • #49
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,029

    1 MG, 2 Grens and 2 Mortars? Yeah... they're going to get rolled by 2 I.Sections and 2 Sappers (because seriously that first tech for the Brits is so laughably easy to achieve).

    Off the top of my head, what is BP 1 - not the building, just the phase. 40 fuel? Or am I including the building in that mental math... Either way, Brit tech is 30 fuel, so even IF Brits started with 0 fuel AND Wehr started with T1 + 2 researched and pre-built for them, Brits would STILL have unlocked AT Guns by the time a halftrack (30 fuel) hit the field.

    It really is just brace that's the issue - not its combination with other abilities. It's literally a get out of jail free button. It might as well be the same technology as the JagdPanzers camo for all the difference it makes. It's one button invincibility. At the absolute barest minimum there needs to be a much longer cooldown on brace, and the emplacement should not return to active firing the second brace ends. Give them like a 10 second transition period from Brace finishing to going back to shooting.

    Can we at the very least agree that it's a god damned joke that a Sturm Tiger rocket doesn't kill these things?

  • #50
    2 years ago

    It would be nice if Bofors need some micro, like changing Ammunition. Anti-Air or explosive etc.

  • #51
    2 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,306 mod
    edited December 2016
    I'd like the bofor to have a cone of attack, like a pak or mg but wider, and it can be rotated by player interaction.
  • #52
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2016

    @le12ro said:
    I'd like the bofor to have a cone of attack, like a pak or mg but wider, and it can be rotated by player interaction.

    that sounds interesting actually. because the bofos can be very strong.

    i dont feel like brace structure is an actual problem though. at least, i dont find emplacements that op when im fighting against it.
    @Lazarus why should a sturmtiger be able to destroy the emplacements?

    you dont think its enough it one shots a wide array of tanks and destroys grouped together infantry? it also needs to be a one button win versus emplacements?

    there wouldnt be a single game where OKW wouldnt pick this unit then. not in team games at least.

    @thedarkarmadillo i really dont see the problem late game with emplacements, unless you were already losing the game and the brits are just snowballing. when you start getting tanks out, just bum rushing the emplacements start becoming an actual viable strategy you couldnt do with your infantry. panzerwerfer or stuka to smash infantry that are stationed nearby.

    so durbility wise i dont see the issue. i think their durbility is just fine. i do, however, see a problem with the damage output of the BOFOS, and the low durbility of wehrmacht units makes em die like flies versus the mortar pit, but those things are being looked in to, at least the latter.

    the emplacements are where the british draw a battle line. unless they pick hammer tactics or a commander that focuses on offense it will be difficult to get back the lost land, without your emplacements after you were pushed back. the lack of artillery that can soften up enemy infantry is quite apparent playing as the brits, and if your mortar pit is also gone? thats tough.

  • #53
    2 years ago

    @Beardedragon said:

    i dont feel like brace structure is an actual problem though. at least, i dont find emplacements that op when im fighting against it.

    Countless times i penetrated/routed Brtis defensive lines... going for the mortar pit... only to see the UKF player press "brace" reinforce all of his retreated units in the base and push again without giving a slight f/ck...this becomes even worse early game when you have no tanks or AFVs...sometimes i asked myself why even bother...

    you dont think its enough it one shots a wide array of tanks and destroys grouped together infantry? it also needs to be a one button win versus emplacements?

    Still more balanced than a bloody bofors locking down a portion of a map for infantry untill you get tanks out...

  • #54
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Emplacements late game are a death-trap if you're struggling against late game emplacements as axis, you're hopeless. 2 rocket artillery wipes emplacements, brace or no brace, or did you all forget that stuka en fus exist? Bofors can be taken out by mortars, ATG's , heck even rocket infantry with an unlucky brace. And people claming the UKF isn't a defensive facton is just complete nonsense with it's defensive infantry, emplacements, virtual complete lack of light vehicle play, I am not sure how they could make it more defensive. Frankly, it's pretty clear here people are just looking at the UKF, which is balance, and insisting it's OP, when all the stats indicate that's utter nonsense.

  • #55
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2016

    @MisterBastard said:

    @Beardedragon said:

    i dont feel like brace structure is an actual problem though. at least, i dont find emplacements that op when im fighting against it.

    Countless times i penetrated/routed Brtis defensive lines... going for the mortar pit... only to see the UKF player press "brace" reinforce all of his retreated units in the base and push again without giving a slight f/ck...this becomes even worse early game when you have no tanks or AFVs...sometimes i asked myself why even bother...

    you dont think its enough it one shots a wide array of tanks and destroys grouped together infantry? it also needs to be a one button win versus emplacements?

    Still more balanced than a bloody bofors locking down a portion of a map for infantry untill you get tanks out...

    Because the bofos totally counter mortars/LeiGs.

    oh wait, it doesnt. even if you say it can hit them with its barrage, it takes time from you first hear it shoot till the barrage lands. furthermore you can just move out of it and continue shooting.

    if you cant defeat a bofos when he has nothing else and you can get mortars, you're doing something wrong. depending on the faction, if you get the flamehalftrack it can also shoot through walls.

  • #56
    2 years ago

    @MCMartel do you only play 3vs3 or 4vs4? If there are so many enemy Panzerwerfer etc. shooting at one emplacement, then it has to die. 

  • #57
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    No, I mostly play 1v1, on which the game is balanced.

  • #58
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited December 2016

    @Beardedragon said:

    Because the bofos totally counter mortars/LeiGs.

    oh wait, it doesnt. even if you say it can hit them with its barrage, it takes time from you first hear it shoot till the barrage lands. furthermore you can just move out of it and continue shooting.

    This works only if the brit player never uses brace and never reacts to mortars, either through direct attack, or with its own mortar pit...voila you just spent 480 on 2 mortars as OST while doing nothing...brit still holds and projects power over a section of a map while pressing the other part ...

    if you cant defeat a bofos when he has nothing else and you can get mortars, you're doing something wrong. depending on the faction, if you get the flamehalftrack it can also shoot through walls.

    Lets not pretend the maps are that huge and help cant come fast enough...virtually impossible if brace is used...also again mortar pit...

    @MCMartel said:
    Emplacements late game are a death-trap if you're struggling against late game emplacements as axis, you're hopeless.

    the issue of pits and bofors is the fact they lock a portion of the map early game before the arrival of tanks...and even late game tehy are damn resistant to stuff like the brummbar...

  • #59
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2016

    @MisterBastard said:

    @Beardedragon said:

    Because the bofos totally counter mortars/LeiGs.

    oh wait, it doesnt. even if you say it can hit them with its barrage, it takes time from you first hear it shoot till the barrage lands. furthermore you can just move out of it and continue shooting.

    This works only if the brit player never uses brace and never reacts to mortars, either through direct attack, or with its own mortar pit...voila you just spent 480 on 2 mortars as OST while doing nothing...brit still holds and projects power over a section of a map while pressing the other part ...

    if you cant defeat a bofos when he has nothing else and you can get mortars, you're doing something wrong. depending on the faction, if you get the flamehalftrack it can also shoot through walls.

    Lets not pretend the maps are that huge and help cant come fast enough...virtually impossible if brace is used...also again mortar pit...

    @MCMartel said:
    Emplacements late game are a death-trap if you're struggling against late game emplacements as axis, you're hopeless.

    the issue of pits and bofors is the fact they lock a portion of the map early game before the arrival of tanks...and even late game tehy are damn resistant to stuff like the brummbar...

    and how much manpower is mortar pit + engineer to build emplacements + BOFOS emplacement? (+ the bofos upgrade)

    you complained about the BOFOS earlier, now you complain about it + mortar pit working together.

    they offset each others weaknesses, and if you allow a BOFOS AND a 400 manpower mortar pit to be thrown down without you even remotely intervening, then you deserve to be wrecked. that doesnt mean you will lose, you're just gonna have to gear up for tanks.

    this works only if he reacts? well excuse me but you've invested more manpower in to infantry than he has if he buys a bofos, so you have a bigger army to defend your mortars shooting at his. if you lose, your army composition or micro is wrong. you SHOULD be able to keep your mortars alive.

    and dont be silly dude, you can buy your first mortar before he even lays down a BOFOS. You dont need to buy 2 mortars WHEN he already has his bofos, get the first before hand.. and considering the brits only have mortar support if they spend 400 manpower on an emplacement, getting at least one mortar unit as Wehrmacht is a pretty damn good choice.

    that means when you see his bofos you only need to buy one aditional. its honestly not even a must, you can just use one.

    if you in turn have also allowed him to get a mortar pit down then i guess you were outplayed.

    are you even talking 1v1 or team games?

  • #60
    2 years ago
    GrittleGrittle Posts: 993

    @eonfigure said:

    @MCMartel said:
    Yeah how ridiculous that defensive emplacements should need to...I dunno, defend things.

    Yes, defending; an act in which the player, uses to skill to control his units to defend an area in combination with his built defensive structures. This includes using micro-management, displacing of units carefully as to not leave structures unsupported.

    Near invulnerability requires; No skill.

    That's were your wrong kiddo

    I and gleefully argue that brace does have skill involved and you'll be mad when it happens

    Timing is very important element for this "skill", moving your army before or just after an artillery strike a completely different scenarios with very different outcomes

    Same goes for brace, using brace all willy nilly = dead emplacement = no brace = gg no re. There are very specific times to use brace for maximum effect.

    But lets ignore everything I just said because you are probably frothing with anger and still cling on to this dumbfounded belief that Brace = no skill and call me, a majority Ostheer Player, a UKF fanboy.

    If by your definition, the act of clicking a button and good stuff happening, is NOT skill. Then clicking an off-map arty barrage on TOP of that emplacement also = no skill. as you did very little input yet you are able to either

    A: Destroy the investment of an emplacement

    or

    B: rendered it useless for about 90 seconds

    If B happens, and you failed to even MAKE a dent on the defensive line. maybe the part of this entire notion where no skill is involved is not the innocent little buttons, but maybe yourself!

  • #61
    2 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468
    edited December 2016

    @Grittle

    I respect your post, i respect your opinion on the matter and how you view skill.

    But don't you dare call me kiddo again.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

  • © SEGA. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Relic Entertainment, the Relic Entertainment logo, Company of Heroes and the Company of Heroes logo are either trademarks or registered trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.