[OKW] Goliath is UP

#1
2 years ago

Not terribly so against infantry of course. Just against emplacements, mediums/heavies etc. Haven't tried to see if it can bring down a building with an MG in it (can it?).

I quite like the Overwatch commander in the support role it occupies - nothing crazy standout but helpful abilities; for example no one bothers to minesweep the flared cp's etc and the Goliath is okay because people just do not expect it (a small consolation).

Anyway - I suggest to increase its damage (not radius as to not disturb its current ok'ness vs infantry). Either a bonus to UKF emplacements in brace etc or a general buff in damage. Reason being you should be rewarded for pulling it off.

Comments

  • #2
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588

    I have used the Overwatch commander once or twice after release, then never again. I don't know if anything has been change on that commander so far, but i always thought there are not much special in that doctrine.

    The whole doctrine is very ammo dependent. The flare ability is good, but i never liked the rest. If you want to use the strafe, you must save on munition... so its very unlikely to use strafe AND goliaths too. ForTheFatherland is good, but it provides speed and rec.accuracy bonus. Those are offensive bonuses, but the ability can be used only on friendly sectors.

    About the Goliath. I don't remember if i have ever used it against buildings or structures. I usually used it against infantry, and its pretty good against those. My only problem is with its noise. Its so laud, any player who is not deaf, can hear clearly where a Goliath is hiding.

    So i am sorry, but i don't think increased damage is whats needed there. I would rather make the whole doctrine more charming, by making FTF an offensive ability,, and decreasing the noise of Goliath.

  • #3
    2 years ago

    I agree with the damage increase because it is a expensive unit (100muni) and its quite hard to utilize properly so the damage increase would make this unit worth the buy.

  • #4
    2 years ago

    The noise gives this unit away. As soon as your opponent hears it, he will buy minesweepers. This commander is too risky, but does come with an awesome stuka strike. Goliath is only good for hitting retreating units. You need to approach from behind or use a smoke screen to cover it. With the smoke screen, it can knock out any non braced emplacements. This is not a pro commander in team games. You may use this commander for fun, but don't expect much in competitive.

  • #5
    2 years ago

    @RiCE Yeah I agree it is munitions intensive. I do use it in 4v4's where I find it works best for supporting team mates with constant recon essentially. And the munitions problem isn't present there of course. I use it in 1v1's too and get to use the underwehlming air strike once in late game. But the ForTheFatherland ability is really helpful when dealing with allied infantry tbf.

    Topic kinda morphed into the whole doctrine's viability; and on that subject it could get a decrease in some of the costs.

  • #6
    2 years ago

    It was once good, but that was when you could stack 3 movement speed bulletins.

  • #7
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588

    @company14u2 said:
    The noise gives this unit away. As soon as your opponent hears it, he will buy minesweepers. This commander is too risky, but does come with an awesome stuka strike. Goliath is only good for hitting retreating units. You need to approach from behind or use a smoke screen to cover it. With the smoke screen, it can knock out any non braced emplacements. This is not a pro commander in team games. You may use this commander for fun, but don't expect much in competitive.

    If LeIG would have a smoke ability, maybe... but at the moment, the only smoke ability i remember is the one that Puma has. Building a Puma to make Goliath useful against buildings... i might not be the best player, but for me its a bit complicated.

    I think its a relatively expensive mobile mine. It would be great against infantry in practice, if its noise would be reduced a bit. Tho i doubt fixing the goliath alone would make this commander more charming in smaller game modes (like 1v1 or 2v2).

  • #8
    2 years ago

    @RiCE said:

    Yea, you kinda need ostheer's stucka smoke or mortar smoke. The puma smoke will not work versus bofors. I only use goliaths when i am screwing around. I would even go so far as to deecrew an ostheer mortar if i am playing with randoms.
    My friends would yell at me if i tried using this normally.

  • #9
    2 years ago

    I would just reduce the cost some. 100 muns is rather expensive for a faction that requires STGs for their main infantry to scale, spamming grenades to kill Vickers and Maxims, Fausting shit constantly, Panzershrecks, etc. etc. I'd rather see it around 70-75 muns to make it more viable. It's risky...but if you can pull it off it's nice.

    The commander itself is useful. I swear a few times when the flare goes off sometimes it kills a model. And yes no one bothers to look for them with a minesweeper. The Sector Assault is nice and FTF is pretty good in a pinch. I actually like this commander despite its lackluster appearance.

  • #10
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,620

    @ExtraNapkins said:
    I would just reduce the cost some. 100 muns is rather expensive for a faction that requires STGs for their main infantry to scale, spamming grenades to kill Vickers and Maxims, Fausting shit constantly, Panzershrecks, etc. etc. I'd rather see it around 70-75 muns to make it more viable. It's risky...but if you can pull it off it's nice.

    The commander itself is useful. I swear a few times when the flare goes off sometimes it kills a model. And yes no one bothers to look for them with a minesweeper. The Sector Assault is nice and FTF is pretty good in a pinch. I actually like this commander despite its lackluster appearance.

    Sooo you think mobile demo charge should cost considerably less then immobile one?
    Yeah.
    No.
    Not going to happen.

    You're not supposed to use goliath as a tank and just rush it in, you're supposed to hide it somewhere where enemy might be coming from or retreating through.

    Don't expect to just drive it into the blob and kill everything.

    Regarding its damage, again, its mobile demo charge which almost one shots emplacements. It doesn't need to be anymore stronger then that.

  • #11
    2 years ago

    @Katitof of On a specialty commander that is nearly useless? Yeah that's a pretty fair trade. USF can get Terminator Blobs for only 10 munitions more for a BAR on certain commanders and a quasi-rigged one, why not a discounted demo charge on a shitty OKW one? It's a severe economic choice because of how OKW bleeds out munitions for abilities.

  • #12
    2 years ago

    OKW is muni starved. That's the problem.

    Miss Golia is fine.

  • #13
    2 years ago
    If you have a smoke happy american (blobber) goliath is a hilarious way to make that backfire but aside from that its rather meh...
  • #14
    2 years ago

    Do camo changes affect Goliath also?

  • #15
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,620

    @JoeyPhillips said:
    OKW is muni starved. That's the problem.

    Miss Golia is fine.

    All factions who dump all their muni into weapon upgrades are muni starved.
    If you won't get StGs for volks, you won't be muni starved at all.

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    Do camo changes affect Goliath also?

    Do Goliath shoot a rifle? :expressionless:

    @ExtraNapkins said:
    @Katitof of On a specialty commander that is nearly useless? Yeah that's a pretty fair trade. USF can get Terminator Blobs for only 10 munitions more for a BAR on certain commanders and a quasi-rigged one, why not a discounted demo charge on a shitty OKW one? It's a severe economic choice because of how OKW bleeds out munitions for abilities.

    That's irrelevant on which commander it is.
    There is plenty of commanders who have one or two good abilities only.
    If you play to support that commander, its not nearly useless.
    If you play meta BO while using non meta commander, I don't know what you expect.

    And why OKW should have better cost-effective options, just because you disregard a commander as free.
    I believe soviet urban defence commander is shitty one, yet I don't see anyone making M-42 a 100mp unit or FHQ 20 fuel. That too are severe economic choices for sov.

    Again, if you want to play non meta commander, you need to rethink your BO, upgrades and abilities.

  • #16
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,029

    @Katitof said:
    Do Goliath shoot a rifle? :expressionless:

    They can be considered in combat though, right? It's not just firing a rifle that triggers revealing anymore. It's a fair enough question though frankly the commander is so far out of meta that they could disable Goliath camo completely and nobody would notice.

  • #17
    2 years ago
    GrittleGrittle Posts: 993

    I believe the Goliath is fine by itself

    the problem lies in the fact that OKW has no good smoke or any other tactic that synergizes with it

    If for the fatherland provide off map smoke to all allied frontline sector --even crappy smoke like assault arty-- the goliath would see much more use as smoke bursting

    I also have a problem of the OKW announcer guy not saying "Goliath Online" or any other SCII related quote concerning the goliath.

  • #18
    2 years ago
    ZiomekZiomek Posts: 21

    iirc it did get a buff against emplacements. Making it effective against heavy armour would be too OP imo. I use it a lot and I personally like it how it is right now.

  • #19
    2 years ago

    The only thing it needs for sure it to PLEASE FIX THE WHEELIE IT DOES :D It looks ridiculous!

  • #20
    2 years ago

    It is really hard to use and the pathing is pretty bad. Why go goliath when you can get a sturm tiger?

  • #21
    2 years ago
    @company14u2 because the goliath does bonus damage vs emplacments and the 380mm rocket advertised as fortification breaking does not.
  • #22
    2 years ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited December 2016
    Why was Goliath good in CoH1? He was nearly indestructibly by normal infantry weapons, so you were allowed to get in a blob and use it more aggressively. Bridges were a oneklick too and a Sherman only needed two of them to be destroyed. Mobility don't make it better than stationary bombs, it becomes a much easier target.

    Goliath's explosion should get a smaller range but the hole thing should get more armor and more damage versus all buildings and vehicles and more speed (with a engine damage like a mine). Maps are bugged for such small things, it need more advantage.

    Edit: And to be used versus emplacements leIG18 NEEDS smoke. OKW needs that.
  • #23
    2 years ago
    AceOfTitaniumAceOfTita… Posts: 195
    edited December 2016
    It would be good if it had an ability to cloak by sacrificing 60% mobility.
  • #24
    2 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    It already has a x4 bonus damage agains emplacements, but good look getting near one...
  • #25
    2 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    IMO, engine noise should vanish while idling, proper cover indicators should be used like with infantry, rotation should be upped so its pathing isn't as painful and it shouldn't self spot.

  • #26
    2 years ago
    I agree entirely with aqua
  • #27
    2 years ago
    The unit has no sense... it needs some more love. Better take a Sturmtiger, no muni bleed and better blob-killer.
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