[Wehr] Quality of Tanks

#1
3 years ago

The Ostheer tanks are falling short of their original design due to powercreep, and the fact the faction hasn't seen any significant adjustments in a long while. According to Relic's faction comparison, wehr is supposed to excel by late game, its design revolving around turtling up and slowly gaining traction to be rewarded late game where they are supposed to shine. Powercreep has driven that concept into the mud, as Ostheer armour falls short of its counterparts through poor moving accuracy, terrible pricing and lower stats, despite being a faction based around their end game roster.

Stug - The crutch unit for any Ostheer player, its far too good for its cost with excellent penetration and rate of fire.

Panzer 4 - Poor penetration, rubbish moving accuracy, slowest in its class and the most expensive bar the OKW version.

Ostwind - Low accuracy, large scatter and so fragile even infantry can force it back with most basic handheld at.

Panther - Ostheer's answer to lacking a non-doc tank destroyer. Well armoured and high mobility, but poor rate of fire, horrendous accuracy and obscene cost make it a highly unreliable pick for any player.

Brumbar - Excellent anti infantry, highly unreliable. Unless someone groups four squads on top of each other, it doesn't do enough consistent damage to force them off. Has targeting issues with many units.

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Comments

  • #3
    3 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Again, I'll repeat myself. The only units that need a buff are ostwind and P4, which need slightly more accuracy and slightly lower cost respectively. The rest is ok.

  • #4
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited November 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    Again, I'll repeat myself.

    Try to avoid repeating yourself again pls, if you have nothing to add simply do not post...

  • #5
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    i dont agree with this at all. well partly i do agree but not fully.

    for some reason in my 4v4 games my winrates flies up when playing as Wehr rather than playing as allies, and i feel like its because of the Wehr composition.

    in that composition the Panzer 4 is by far my favorite tank. i often get 2 of these just to smash T-34s, shermans and cromwells. sure it can be even sometimes, but the Wehr rooster just seem capable, and the Panzer 4 is definitly something i would NOT buff nor nerf in anyway. i really love this tank with all my heart.

    i feel like im getting a good tank for the price, where as buying a T-34 is more like "meh, i need two before this is viable at all". i get one Panzer 4 and i already feel more in control.

    The Ostwind however.. i used to come to the conclussion that it was fine but yea it isnt. it doesnt need more damage, just more accuracy.

    The Stug? honestly i never get it because it over all feels better to just go Panzer 4 so i dont know if that tank needs any buffs or not. but maybe the fact i never buy any of them is a testimony to the fact that it does need a buff. a big buff would put it closer to a late game Tank destroyer and whats the purpose of that? we have the Panther.

    The Brumbar is in my opinion not bad. sometimes it doesnt do a ton of damage because it misses, but it can also be a very very good tank at smashing things. it can smash infantry well but given that most allied armor is medium, its also rather capable of tank support and can reliably deal damage to tanks too. next to that yes as OP did mention however, it does not deal consistent damage so unless it hits you right in the face, you have no real reason to actually move, when using infantry.

    The Panther however, i would not change. people might think the Panther is expensive and weak for its cost in a 1v1 game but not team games at all. reaching a Panther or even two is not all that difficult in a 4v4 game and the Panther really excels at surviving and dishing out tank damage to other tanks. in fact panther spam without a british player is very annoying or reversed, very strong when using it oneself.

    the thing is for both the Panzer 4 and Panther in general, they are easy to keep alive. hell even a brumbar is easy to keep alive. soviet tanks are either made of paper, are slow, or have no turret, and american tanks are no different. this means that their low cost helps you to replace your tanks because odds are they wont live as long as german tanks.

    British and axis tanks are expensive, because they are generally easier to keep alive and perform better. it isnt difficult for me, anyway to keep alive a Panzer 4 even in a 4v4 game even to the point where i reach a Panther. Keeping a T-34 alive however? yea. thats not gonna stay alive for long.

  • #6
    3 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    I need tanks that do something more than "staying alive", and even t34/76 its better at doing something more.

    At least they are a good bait, most allies seem to go into a berserker frenzy went they spot a panther/tiger and become easier to bait into mines and paks.
  • #7
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @pablonano said:
    I need tanks that do something more than "staying alive", and even t34/76 its better at doing something more.

    At least they are a good bait, most allies seem to go into a berserker frenzy went they spot a panther/tiger and become easier to bait into mines and paks.

    you need something more than staying alive? well good because the Panzer 4 and Panther provides exactly that.

    the T-34 is cheap and provides nothing at all. it couldnt even hit the broad side of a barn even less so when its moving. The T34 is the Conscripts of tanks.

    i dont understand what the fuss is about when talking about the Panzer 4 or the Panther. i think they're great tanks and its pretty hard to get them killed.

  • #8
    3 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    Ostwind is a horrible POS, its common to see it fire a whole clip into the middle of an enemy squad without ANY effect, except some "Twilight vampire sparkling"...

    Biggest problem of OSt tanks...complete lack of accuracy and shots fired get absorbed by any garbage (looking at you STUG).

    Compare the practical accuracy of Shermans to panzer 4s, even when static...laughable....

  • #9
    3 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    Pz4 vs t34 its an rng fest, while the t34/76 its inferior, the chances to win the engagement are there, and this tank is way less sluggy, i often see pz4 derping in ways that no t34 has done ever, and when suporting infantry T-34 and pz4 will miss most of the shots, but since t34/76 mg is worth of mention now it will overall do better. This without considering the fact that lossing a pz4 can make the match really hard, while lossing a t34 isnt that bad.

    Panther is a turet, onve it moves lose at hope, and its always going to move because everything outranges or outdamages it from behind (really, if a t34 gets on the rear you better run, because it has superior dps), its only good if your enemy goes full medium armor or Kv-1/churchill, if there is a jackson/furefly/SU-85 you stand no chance in a proper front line, you will be at the defensive permanently hand over panzer tactician. Even i found rather frustrating to pay so much to get the tank and se a low cost efficiency that only gets half "reasonable" with the duravility of the tank. And now you look back to cromwell, almost the same stats but having perfect aiming, grenades and incendiary barrage with the range of a jadgtiger, and costs 15 less than okw one and only 10 more than Osthern one.

    And there is Ram, that if i told what i found the skill gets pretty much deleted fro the game because op.
  • #10
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Beardedragon said:
    the T-34 is cheap and provides nothing at all. it couldnt even hit the broad side of a barn even less so when its moving.

    The number say a different story T-34/76 an PZ-IV have the same accuracy and the same moving accuracy,

  • #11
    3 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    The only non doc AFV for ost worth is the Stug followed by panzer 4 (barely) ...everything else is unusable rubbish

  • #12
    3 years ago

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    the T-34 is cheap and provides nothing at all. it couldnt even hit the broad side of a barn even less so when its moving.

    The number say a different story T-34/76 an PZ-IV have the same accuracy and the same moving accuracy,

    and what about things such as speed, armor, hp, vision range, hit range etc. does the Panzer 4 fall short on these?

  • #13
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @Beardedragon

    you need something more than staying alive? well good because the Panzer 4 and Panther provides exactly that.

    Yes. Both Axis factions require their tanks to be effective at fighting, not just being able to take hits. Their survivability has never been in question, its their awful damage potential.

    Panzer 4 is the most expensive medium in its class, costing 350 mp and 125 fuel. It has the second lowest penetration at 110, only 50% moving accuracy, the lowest turret rotation and is the slowest, its only redeeming quality is an extra 20 armour.

    The OKW version has the same stats but with 74 extra armour and an additional 25 fuel cost.

    The T-34 is the cheapest by comparison at 300mp and 80 fuel. It has 100 penetration, the same moving accuracy as the P4 and lower armour. However its can shred infantry with its impressive hull mounted mgs and due to cost will always outnumber its counterparts. Its ability to disable other tanks through by ramming can be taken into account too.

    The Sherman costs 340 mp and 110 fuel. It has 120 penetration, 75% moving accuracy, excellent speed and acceleration. It can have its crew exit to perform in-field repairs, non-doc smoke, its able to switch between HE and AP rounds making it highly effective at sniping infantry.

    The Cromwell costs the same as the Sherman, with the same Pen, moving accuracy and armour. However its considerably faster, easier to tech to, has similar non doc smoke, excellent at crushing infantry and can have the brit tank commander upgrade for even more accuracy, vision and the abiltity to spot camo units.

    This is without taking into account the cost of tech. So summed up the wehr P4 is the worst of the mediums for cost, as the OKW version has huge potential through vet.

    The Panther meanwhile is the Wehr replacement to a dedicated tank destroyer. It's supposed to be a tank hunter, but fails at its role. As despite having great penetration, armour and speed, it can't put out much in the way of damage with poor moving accuracy (the same as the p4) and a 7.5 second reload. So it cannot chase tanks as it will either miss or be unable to put enough shots on a target with 160 damage coupled with such a slow firing gun before being forced off or snared.

    Hence why most Wehr players use 2-3 stugs isntead for reliable At, as the cost of tech to panthers and their individual price is massive. I hope this sums up why many feel they fall short of expectations and when put side by side with their counterparts.

  • #14
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Beardedragon said:
    and what about things such as speed, armor, hp, vision range, hit range etc. does the Panzer 4 fall short on these?

    PLS you can check the stat yourself here
    http://www.stat.coh2.hu

  • #15
    3 years ago
    Worth mentioning is that stats.hu only shows mid range pen, this doesnt show pen profiles. For example yes the mid pen for the t34 is 100 while the 04 is 110 but this is because the t34 only has 80 pen at max range whereas the p4 has 100.

    (Not disagreeing with points made, but stats.hu isnt telling the whole story)
  • #16
    3 years ago

    It's pretty much go Tiger or go bust. Survive the mid-late game with Stugs and P4s, ignore tier 4 and get a Tiger.

  • #17
    3 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 2,006
    The fact that the T-34 is comparable to the Pz IV at all is already insane. The only edge the Pz IV has is armour and a bit of pen. And for these tiny advantages you pay substantially more fuel. The Pz IV is a disgrace. Even with the Pintle mount the T-34 beats it in AI.
  • #18
    3 years ago
    KopiGKopiG Posts: 72

    @Hingie said:
    The fact that the T-34 is comparable to the Pz IV at all is already insane. The only edge the Pz IV has is armour and a bit of pen. And for these tiny advantages you pay substantially more fuel. The Pz IV is a disgrace. Even with the Pintle mount the T-34 beats it in AI.

    Exactly, also for which you have to pay 50 munitions. Pz IV without MG :D

  • #19
    3 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    @Hingie said:
    The fact that the T-34 is comparable to the Pz IV at all is already insane. The only edge the Pz IV has is armour and a bit of pen. And for these tiny advantages you pay substantially more fuel. The Pz IV is a disgrace. Even with the Pintle mount the T-34 beats it in AI.

    All you need to compare when watching any game replay, is time a vehicle spent in combat/shots fired, to its kill number...OST pz 4 tanks clearly come on the bottom of effectivenss for AI, and are are hardly impressive in AT department for their cost.

  • #20
    3 years ago
    iA3 - HHiA3 - HH IRANPosts: 288

    panzer 4 need buff, this tank is totally useless and ****

  • #21
    3 years ago
    VutherVuther Posts: 2,129
    edited November 2016

    Nerfs to Shermans, 34-85s, Cromwells and Comets are more important. Power creep needs to be cut down, not continued. PIV maybe could use a small increase at long-range effectiveness to further cement its purpose, Ostwind really just needs Hold Fire and Reload buttons so it can actually micro its speed advantage effectively, Panther needs a reload decrease but T4's stuff particularly needs a reduction to the cost of the tier. 99% of the problem is the stuff I mentioned in the first sentence overperforming, though (aside from Ostwinds).

  • #22
    3 years ago

    The problem with Axis in general is that they are such reactive factions because Allies NEVER have to react what Axis does. I'm struggling to get Stugs out to not get overrun by vehicle cheese or spamming Scout Cars because I have no choice. It's never "OH MAN HE HAS A P4, I NEED MORE AT!" The only Axis option for this is a surprise Luchs. That's about it.

    By the time you get Flaktracks they have an AEC. If you have Scout Cars, they have Stuarts. If you have a Luchs, they have a Sherman/Cromwell. You are always behind in what you can put out because WFA and Sovs to a lesser extent are too efficient for what they cost and their timing is stupid. Axis AT is really unreliable that early in the game, and I've been finding myself relying too much on luck with Tellers to deal with light vehicle cheese.

    But yeah if you can afford any Tier 4 units in quantity it's because you're trolling your opponent. P4 are bad for their cost, STUGs are the only reliable tank killers that are good for cost. And quite often you may have to save up for a Tiger to gamble on a late game match.

    But the facts remain...

    1. No light tanks for Ost.
    2. All armor killers are behind Tier 3.
    3. Their vehicles are cheaper and better.
    4. Panthers are wickedly expensive, unreliable, and arrive too late. You basically have to rush to get one and spend no fuel.
    5. Allied early game and mid game are stronger across the board so you may be hurting for fuel to afford your shitty tanks.
    6. Bazooka and Royal Engineer AT blobs are fearless against tanks.
    7. P4 accuracy sucks shit for 350/125/50 muns tank whereas an M10 can immediately run over a Pgren squad, repair itself and keep driving.
    8. Blob control Brummbar arrives super late and is against more/better armor.
    9. WFA are a joke to play as. They are easy mode and are made easier if you pick their cheesy OP commanders there is no reason to lose.
  • #23
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    you do realize that 2-3 scout cars can take out a stuart yes? fuel wise thats even cheaper than what he spends on that stuart. but also the T70 or AECs. or you can buy an AT gun which is unlocked as you tech up playing as Wehr, something that isnt unecessarily unlocked playing as soviets or USF if you didnt go that specific tier.
    the Luch also comes out earlier than the sherman/cromwell.

    Panthers are not unreliable.

    and yes allies do have to react to what wehrmacht throws out. stop making it out like playing allies is just a walk in the park. Im saying this as someone that plays mostly soviets and wehrmacht.

    there is one point in which the Panzer 4 really shines and that is at what its fighting against, which i think is a very important aspect which i think counts towards the price as well. at some point, a sherman starts being less useful, but the Panzer 4 has uses against anything a USF/soviet player can throw out by stock.

    the Panzer 4 cost more than the core tank allied trio, t34/sherman/cromwell, yet gets more armor in return (and i think more pen? im uncertain about that), meaning when it meets these tanks, it will always have the edge unless bad RNG happens. however it also has a wider array of tanks its useful against.

    what i mean is that if we for one moment take the british out of this, then all the Wehr player ever faces by stock, are medium tanks. all of which the Panzer 4 is pretty much capable of 1v1 and win against, or at least, all of which it can reliably penetrate. it will face Shermans, jacksons, T34s, SU76s and SU-85s.

    there is not a single heavy tank in the USF/soviet rooster by stock. now if we add the british back in to this that would add the cromwell, firefly and centaur, + churchill/comet.

    only really at the last two tanks is something greater than a Panzer 4 needed, and thats where you can use Panthers. now, using Panthers in general can be very helpful in the late game as they outright have more defense and dont really have many shortcomings, which is great considering how the allied faction works with their TDs.

    all tank destroyers on the allied force lacks one thing or the other.

    SU-85, slow, got no turret.
    Jackson, made of paper
    Firefly, super slow turret rotation.

    sure we can add heavy tank call ins back in to this but by the time anyone can get a pershing or IS-2, by all means, you should be able to recruit panthers by then.

    im not saying i mind that allied tank destroyers have short comings because i dont, im just saying that the Panther really dont have many short comings. it has speed, defense, damage, turret rotation speed. everything it really needs, hell it even has MGs to deal with small squads of infantry, which no allied TD has. and untill you can field Panthers, your Panzer 4s can deal well with the allied tank trio always having the highest chance of winning, but it can also deal with su85s, or jacksons, or even fireflies.

    in return, neither the T34, cromwell or sherman are ever going to be destroying panthers without any form of support, meaning they start being less useful when panthers roll out. Panzer 4s are actually useful against most things allied nations can even recruit.

  • #24
    3 years ago

    The Panther is locked behind hugely expensive tech, and while it can survive, its RoF (7,38 secs at base) is so lackluster, combined with OSTPanther's 0.5 moving accuracy that it cannot be relied on on kill anything. Especially since that in any realistic scenario, you can't YOLO chase of the other tank to fire at it every 8 seconds - a keep missing - and get snared or fired on by TDs which are always present, while Allied meds the Panther is supposed to counter never are. And building Panthers with a faction basically leaves you without capping power, since its a faction that's infantry vanishes by the presence of super cost efficient AI units. Panther can't make up for that, its AI is just barely there even with upgrades.

    Its only worth it if there is a UKF player, because they start to spam Comets after the 20 minute mark against which only the Panther is a solution - the other Wehr stuff can't penetrate it reliably. And the Comet sh*ts on the Panther otherwise. Its only realistic counter with OST is the Panther (Paks/Stugs bounce often and will be circled, PzIV has far too low pen) has faster RoF and superb AI, even without any upgrade.

  • #25
    3 years ago

    @Beardedragon

    Why do people always focus on only fuel costs? 3 scout cars is a staggering 630 MP for a largely reactive disposal unit that takes a lot of damage from infantry fire. That is NOT a cheap investment for a unit that has a small window of use. AEC and Stuart take 0 damage from infantry small arms. Also the Soviets and USF don't need heavy tanks but if they do have them they are still better options than the KT and Tiger. The Pershing is probably the best heavy for cost and on a ridiculously good commander, the IS-2s are on ridiculously good commanders so it's not like it is a total hassle to have them at your disposal in the first place.

    TDs are a moot point in how much they are made of paper because they outrange everything in the Axis arsenal so enemy tanks will (or at least shouldn't) even be in a position to damage them in the first place. Because if you're losing TDs to tanks then you are playing wrong. Not to mention they will penetrate virtually every time against pretty much everything except maybe a lucky KT due to recent buffs. I'd rather have more shots that PENETRATE rather than just ROF. And now they just dominate the field because two tank destroyers make tank investments a total waste. That's why you see Rifles and Jacksons just running over everything because it is literally the only two units USF needs to win a game.

    The vanilla P4 is severely lackluster because it costs more, is slower than the Cromwell, can't repair or have the utility of the Sherman, and are wildly inconsistent to killing infantry. Jacksons will kite them all day, SU-85s will always have more than enough support protecting them, and Fireflies are so wickedly dangerous at shutting down any type of aggressive mobile play.

    Also transitioning to P4s and Panthers is easier said than done without being completely overrun. The Panther can be very good in at least survival aspects but its mobile accuracy and reload are absolutely HORRIBLE. Also it's very mediocre against infantry. As far as medium tanks vs. Panthers good luck finding an opponent stupid enough to only send one medium tank at a time against one. Odds are if you teched that high to Panthers your opponent will probably have 2-3 mediums for every Panther you put out there.

    200 FU is a serious investment for OKW especially because that means you're basically playing all game with ZERO vehicles and no possibility of caches to somewhat alleviate the cost if you have spare MP.

  • #26
    3 years ago
    PrincessBubblegumPrincessB… Posts: 110
    edited November 2016

    @Beardedragon написал:
    you do realize that 2-3 scout cars can take out a stuart yes? fuel wise thats even cheaper than what he spends on that stuart. but also the T70 or AECs. or you can buy an AT gun which is unlocked as you tech up playing as Wehr, something that isnt unecessarily unlocked playing as soviets or USF if you didnt go that specific tier.

    Do u realize that this movement slows all tech for wehr for a few minutes? U just sayed that u play wehr and soviets, but after this ur speech about wehr is too retarded.

    the Luch also comes out earlier than the sherman/cromwell.

    But they dont need M4 to counter luchs, they have a stuart and AT gun what comes EARLIER than pak40 and BETTER in stock, what is ridiculous.

    and yes allies do have to react to what wehrmacht throws out. stop making it out like playing allies is just a walk in the park. Im saying this as someone that plays mostly soviets and wehrmacht.

    For now it is just a walk in the park with shooting someone. Especially soviets and USF are too good for comeback even without fuel and have too good counter of anything.

    there is one point in which the Panzer 4 really shines and that is at what its fighting against, which i think is a very important aspect which i think counts towards the price as well. at some point, a sherman starts being less useful, but the Panzer 4 has uses against anything a USF/soviet player can throw out by stock.

    U speak about tank with effectivity of a slow T34 with cost like SU-85, what can easily be beaten by SU-76 with 75 fuel cost only because PIVs are too blind.

    the Panzer 4 cost more than the core tank allied trio, t34/sherman/cromwell, yet gets more armor in return (and i think more pen? im uncertain about that), meaning when it meets these tanks, it will always have the edge unless bad RNG happens. however it also has a wider array of tanks its useful against.

    Medium tank like PIV or cromwell does not rly need armour, but needs good weapon and movement stats. Yes, pgrens easily beat cromwell by pschrecks, but so what, if half of squad can easily be beaten from one shot? And what about smoke shells what disables german AT guns, huh?

    what i mean is that if we for one moment take the british out of this, then all the Wehr player ever faces by stock, are medium tanks. all of which the Panzer 4 is pretty much capable of 1v1 and win against, or at least, all of which it can reliably penetrate. it will face Shermans, jacksons, T34s, SU76s and SU-85s.

    there is not a single heavy tank in the USF/soviet rooster by stock. now if we add the british back in to this that would add the cromwell, firefly and centaur, + churchill/comet.

    only really at the last two tanks is something greater than a Panzer 4 needed, and thats where you can use Panthers. now, using Panthers in general can be very helpful in the late game as they outright have more defense and dont really have many shortcomings, which is great considering how the allied faction works with their TDs.

    Blah-blah-blah. Even for guaranteed cromwell destroying u need a panther. Stop talking junk and play faction about u are speaking.

    all tank destroyers on the allied force lacks one thing or the other.

    SU-85, slow, got no turret.
    Jackson, made of paper
    Firefly, super slow turret rotation.

    SU-85 got the best sight of range, what it must not have, it needs nerf.
    Jackson is made of paper, but have too much HP.
    Firefly? Why the hell his rockets are not doctrinal? It is op without that, it has better gun than every german tank. Also UKF donr need fireflies, cos they can easily spam better comets.

    im not saying i mind that allied tank destroyers have short comings because i dont, im just saying that the Panther really dont have many short comings. it has speed, defense, damage, turret rotation speed. everything it really needs, hell it even has MGs to deal with small squads of infantry, which no allied TD has. and untill you can field Panthers, your Panzer 4s can deal well with the allied tank trio always having the highest chance of winning, but it can also deal with su85s, or jacksons, or even fireflies.

    Panther is OK only when get good vet3 like Comet have ("yellow" blob-suppression for example), good AI like Comet have (like a half of squad from one shot) and good sight of range or when Axis get more commanders with scopes, what are 1 from 4 or 5 wehr-commander abilities, what are realy necessary, coz else is just junk.

    in return, neither the T34, cromwell or sherman are ever going to be destroying panthers without any form of support, meaning they start being less useful when panthers roll out. Panzer 4s are actually useful against most things allied nations can even recruit.

    They just can spam more in case of overpowered land-lease ability what soviets have and very cheap tanks like T34. May be u beat a wave or two, but after it u will fall in 8 from 10 tank rushes just because allies tanks are better than axis as AI.

    Stop talking shit about "OK wehr". Wehr obviosly needs big up.

  • #27
    3 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    so.. buying 3 222s worth of 30 fuel slows down Wehr teching? rofl you fool. buying ANY vehicle for ANY faction delays the factions teching. you dont think buying a 70 fuel t70 delays soviets?

    "stop talking junk", this conversation is pretty much over mr. i have 4 posts written so im a big shot suddenly. i dont converse with idiots that insults others for no apparent reason.

    @ExtraNapkins true fuel isnt everything, however, fuel is what delays your teching, mp usually isnt. though it does reduce your field presence if your 222s dies, but thats how it is with all units you know.

    besides, 3x 222s wont get destroyed by infantry with no AT. 3x 222s deal a huge amount of AI damage and will shred penals, riflemen and tommies if they are not equipped with AT weapons or have AT guns to support. and no the AEC does actually take damage from small fire arms, something which will be changed in the next patch which you can read about somewhere on the forum.

    it shouldnt take damage so im glad they change it. and why shouldnt they? it cost 60 fuel to make an AEC and a handfull to even be allowed to build it through the upgrade. the stuart takes even more.

    the 222 takes 10 fuel. of course its not gonna be a mini tank. for 10 fuel you cant expect a unit not to take small arms damage.

    im not really looking at this through OKW vision, and yes 200 fuel for panthers is a lot that much i will agree on.

    but 175 for the wehr one? seems fine to me. the whole tier 4 is a bit weird for wehr, sure, but if the game drags out long enough, going for tier 4 isnt a bad choice for panthers or panzerwerfers.

    in team games anyway, everyone goes for panthers, and they're very strong there. less so in 1v1 games though.

  • #28
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    Fuel cost of 222 is up to 30, move on...

  • #29
    3 years ago

    @Vipper said:
    Fuel cost of 222 is up to 30, move on...

    not untill the balance mod is out it isnt dude. its 10 now.

  • #30
    3 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,331 mod

    It's still an interesting perspective to take into account, despite the change not being final yet. I am uncertain though how other changes may impact on the viability of the scout car.

  • #31
    3 years ago

    @le12ro said:
    It's still an interesting perspective to take into account, despite the change not being final yet. I am uncertain though how other changes may impact on the viability of the scout car.

    well i for one really welcomes them. i dislike spamming scout cars (right now i dont even use them out of principal). a single scout car is bad, 2 is good, 3 is insane and that is not how it should be.

    i hope that these new changes will somehow help this unit.

    also i totally dig the T70 changes. i once asked for a buff similar, with lower gun damage and higher hp but apparently that idea was shot down by ppl on the forums. im glad others have seen the light.

    who the hell wants a 70 fuel tank to die in 2 AT hits lol

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