[SOV] SU76 is way too effective - it needs a nerf.

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Comments

  • #392
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @AceOfTitanium They won't reliably pen shot after shot against a tiger/panther unless they close in and can take return fire, at max range is just won't be consistent, therefore if they close in to be able to pen, they will recieve countefire and be destroyed. The other side of the argument is that the tiger is underwhelming, speed being its biggest weakness, if its caught unsupported it will likely die, at leas the panther can escape.

  • #393
    2 years ago

    @Farra13 I had a game that I almost lost because the sov player had 3 su-76's and a t-70 giving them vision and my tanks couldnt even return fire, had to retreat them all the way back to base with a sliver of health and eventually lost them. Btw I had a tiger, a pz4 and an ostwind supported my a pak, one panzergrenadier with panzerschreck's, 2 hmg's and infantry. Still I lost my heavy and medium tanks versus 3 light tanks... PS: This was on the WBP v1.7.

  • #394
    2 years ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    Reduce penetration to 150 , problem solved vs heavy armor , making su-85 even more appealing.

  • #395
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 687
    edited January 2017

    @Meow said:
    Reduce penetration to 150 , problem solved vs heavy armor , making su-85 even more appealing.

    Then it cant really counter the panther anymore (wich is a medium tank with very heavy armour) wich the su76 is supposed to counter somewhat effectively with its role as a medium td. The su76 is ony that potent in packs and die really fast.

    The su85 is to slow to kill a panther mostly imo, but it does fantastic vs heavys ass intended.

    imo if med tds get pen nerf vs heavys and the panther keeps its heavy armour, we will have one td that cant pen it and the other td that lacks the dps to deal with it.

    The panther can get a dps increase at cost of armour to compentsate the su76 nerf imo, its already one of the fastest tanks in the game so getting away from harm shoudnt be a problem.

    That my opinion in the matter that the panthers heavy armour kinda forces the high pen on the su76.

  • #396
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @AceOfTitanium I can't account for all situations like that, and yes I know the t-70 sight is excellent (despite many wanting to nerf the spotting scope even though that doesn't even work on the move), but why not just leave the pack up front? The SU-76's won't go near it.

    As I said its more a problem of Tiger mobility completely hamstringing it, rather than SU-76 being really OP, at the end of the day it is a "glass cannon", just timing an offensive right and they shatter under one good engagement.

  • #397
    2 years ago
    AceOfTitaniumAceOfTita… Posts: 195
    edited January 2017

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    Then it cant really counter the panther anymore (wich is a medium tank with very heavy armour) wich the su76 is supposed to counter somewhat effectively with its role as a medium td. The su76 is ony that potent in packs and die really fast.

    See that's a misconception, the panther is actually a heavy tank but the germans called it a medium tank. That is why you see in the unit name 'medium'. The su-76 would counter the panther but not frontally and this would force the soviet player to use different tactics with the su-76 or get the su-85.

    The su76 is ony that potent in packs and die really fast.

    It should be potent in flanking too, using it's speed to get in and out of combat.

    imo if med tds get pen nerf vs heavys and the panther keeps its heavy armour, we will have one td that cant pen it and the other td that lacks any dps to deal with it.

    But the su-76 is a "light tank" not a medium tank and the su-85 a "medium tank".

    That my opinion in the matter that the panthers heavy armour kinda forces the high pen on the su76.

    The su-76 is supposed to counter light and medium tanks not heavy tanks (with the exception of a good flank).

    (...) but why not just leave the pack up front? The SU-76's won't go near it.

    I positioned my hmg's covering my pak which was in the front line and the tiger behind the pak was still getting rekt...

  • #398
    2 years ago

    @AceOfTitanium said:

    See that's a misconception, the panther is actually a heavy tank but the germans called it a medium tank. That is why you see in the unit name 'medium'. The su-76 would counter the panther but not frontally and this would force the soviet player to use different tactics with the su-76 or get the su-85.

    If the panter is a heavy then it needs speed of a heavy and not be the fastests meduim in the game. its needs to be a medium or a heavy not this weird mix of both. The su76 has range as the advantidge and rof.
    Flanking with a turretless td is not something you do easily and mostly results in a loss of at least one su76.

    But the su-76 is a "light tank" not a medium tank and the su-85 a "medium tank".

    times change the su76 is a medium td on a light platform, the su85 is a heavy td on a medium platform.

    The su-76 is supposed to counter light and medium tanks not heavy tanks (with the exception of a good flank).

    that whas the role way back when the howitsers served as heavy tank counters, remember back then? soviet at completely unreliable. su76 only counterd the 221 and 251, you needed to get a awfull lot to just take on a single p4, the su85 fired duds at panthers and above. German armour rofl stomping with no counters, ring a bell?

    back then the soiviet at stopped working after vet2 p4 and panthers, you needed to beat them before a p4 got vet2 or before panther. right now axis need to be carefull with tanks vs soviets as they should.

  • #399
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721
    edited January 2017

    There is no need for Su-76 (a Tier 3 280/75 unit) to be able to counter a Panther (especially at range 60) (a T4 490/175 unit) that is a role for the SU-85.

  • #400
    2 years ago
    @Vipper exactly, if the su-76 counters heavy tanks why should I go for a su-85 unless I lose my 76's? Not to mention that the panther is more expensive and requires more tech.
  • #401
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647
    edited January 2017

    @TheLeveler83 said:

    If the panter is a heavy then it needs speed of a heavy and not be the fastests meduim in the game. its needs to be a medium or a heavy not this weird mix of both. The su76 has range as the advantidge and rof.

    Except it isn't a traditional medium nor is it the "fastest medium in the game", Comet and Cromwell are both faster.
    It's a tank hunter, therefore it trades shot damage and range for armour and speed. There is nothing wrong with that combo, well except when its combined with its abysmal combat performance and outrageous cost...

    I'm sure its more of a case of OST tanks underperforming in general (Tiger speed and the fact the Panther is basically toothless) that allows the SU-76 to appear OP, if the tiger could actually catch it and the Panther was capable of not only hitting it, but then maybe if the RNG god is feeling benevolent, hitting it a second time and then if the stars align and the third shot... well, then things probably wouldn't look quite so dire.

    That said if you were to knock 10-15-20 pen off, would its performance really be affected against anything less than a 300 armour tank at max range?

  • #402
    2 years ago
    It already bounces at max range vs panthers quite a lot from my experience.

    The panther pens everything with ease, i dont mind it missing on the move, a form of balance imo.

    But still 1 su76 is no real threat, 2 are getting there, 3 is the magic number.
  • #403
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,592

    @Meow said:
    Reduce penetration to 150 , problem solved vs heavy armor , making su-85 even more appealing.

    It had it before.
    No one ever used it, because there was no reason to.

    And it would go back to that state.

  • #404
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @TheLeveler83 said:

    The panther pens everything with ease, i dont mind it missing on the move, a form of balance imo.

    Not being able to shoot on the move is what makes it so crap.... how is mobile alternative tank destroyer with an excessive reload time supposed to kill anything when it either misses when shooting on the move, or stops and hits but its target is able to continue backpedalling away and the panther is then unable to catch up?

    Its a damn premium unit costing the price (in purchase and tech) of two stock mediums... it should be capable of shooting on the move as its role calls for. Knock its moving accuracy up to 0.65-0.75 and shave a second of its reload and it would be viable, until then its just stug spam.

    As for the SU-76 I have no problems with it, but if alot of people start reporting its potency against heavies for its price is too good, lowring its pen so it can't pick at them at 60 range would be the best way to go.

  • #405
    2 years ago
    AceOfTitaniumAceOfTita… Posts: 195
    edited January 2017

    @Katitof said:
    It had it before.
    No one ever used it, because there was no reason to.

    And it would go back to that state.

    What was the price to get the su-76? The same as it is now?

  • #406
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,592

    @AceOfTitanium said:

    @Katitof said:
    It had it before.
    No one ever used it, because there was no reason to.

    And it would go back to that state.

    What was the price to get the su-76? The same as it is now?

    Lower.

  • #407
    2 years ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    @Katitof said:

    It had it before.
    No one ever used it, because there was no reason to.

    And it would go back to that state.

    It seems we have a problem in unit design both units can't be viable it's either su-76 too effective for price or not enough worth trouble.

  • #408
    2 years ago
    AceOfTitaniumAceOfTita… Posts: 195
    edited January 2017
    @Meow There is no problem with unit design. I dont see how no one would use a unit that is cheaper and comes earlier than any axis medium tank and yet would be a counter to those same mediums. Eventually if the enemy were to get bigger tanks like a panther or a king tiger, again, you would want to get one medium tank that would be cheaper to get with good range and would counter those heavy tanks.
    The idea of the soviet faction is that if unit X is a counter to unit Y, the unit X would be cheaper and able to counter that unit Y but would be frigile. If the enemy gets a bigger unit you have the same principle.
    PS: This would also add to the factions interactions, making players try to guess what the other would bring to the battlefield.
  • #409
    2 years ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    I was referring to similarities of su-76 and su-85. They are to similar so 1 that is more cost effective is used most of the time.
    Also they have some advantages and disadvantages when compared. So its up to some personal value when choosing which one you need or want.

    2 su-76 counter panther , 1 is just not enough. 2 su-76 are cheap that's true but their dedicated role is to destroy tanks.
    They rip apart tanks only because you get more than 1 of them , 3 is critical mass , their dps gets too high at that moment.

  • #410
    2 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    People obviously doesnt remember that when SU-76 had the same penetration as a zis-3 its was considered one of the worst units on the game and a complete waste of resources
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