[SOV] SU76 is way too effective - it needs a nerf.

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Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    @MCMartel said:
    Except that an su-85 has substantially more range/sight and so can snipe/kite a tiger much more effectively than su-76's can, and bouncing 40% of shots is hardly reliable.

    Su-85 has exactly the same range with the SU-76 and a vet 1 ability that allow it to spot at 70 and take full advantage of the full range 60 range. Pls check stats before posting.

    Su-76 has (x)150% more chance to penetrate than to bounce that in my books is reliably. Maybe you can explain what reliably is in your books and then we can start communicating...

  • #33
    2 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,282 mod

    The barrage now costs 15 munitions to activate.

  • #34
    2 years ago

    @le12ro said:
    The barrage now costs 15 munitions to activate.

    cries

  • #35
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    @Beardedragon said:

    @le12ro said:
    The barrage now costs 15 munitions to activate.

    cries

    Yep, cuz thats gonna brake the soviets state munition bank....haahaha

    @Vipper said:

    Su-76 has (x)150% more chance to penetrate than to bounce that in my books is reliably. Maybe you can explain what reliably is in your books and then we can start communicating...

    Probably 10 out of 10, but that just says more about the state of mind and privileges enjoyed by non axis factions...

  • #36
    2 years ago

    The SU 76 needs to be looked at with proper stats reflecting its cost.

    It's far to powerful at the moment , it's penetration and range are to much and when this unit is spammed it really negates the entire point of fielding anything else.

  • #37
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,567

    @le12ro said:
    The barrage now costs 15 munitions to activate.

    SU-76 nerfed, move along people, nothing more to see here, thread has ended Kappa.

  • #38
    2 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 1,977
    Yeah, right, because those token 15 mun are going to change its performance vs tanks at long range, which was the main complaint in this thread. I'd say the barrage should cost the same amount as the ZiS one does.
  • #39
    2 years ago

    Barrage cost is better than nothing. The multiple unlimited barrages reckt my mg, which was sad. Soviets always have a munitions float so I don't really see it being too noticeable.

  • #40
    2 years ago

    Barrage isn't that much of a problem, sniper range on a dirt cheap TD is.

    Though giving the barrage a bit of muni costs may make it at least have some cosueqence if one keeps going on SU 76 spam.

  • #41
    2 years ago

    RIP Su76.

  • #42
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2016

    @Hingie said:
    Yeah, right, because those token 15 mun are going to change its performance vs tanks at long range, which was the main complaint in this thread. I'd say the barrage should cost the same amount as the ZiS one does.

    it used to be as expensive as the Zis barrage, as far as i can remember, and no one used it.

    no one even used the tank in general back then.

    talk about barrages you know what no one else uses either? the Zis Barrage.

    the barrage is too innaccurate and does too little for the insane cost it has.

  • #43
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,852

    I think this is a pretty fair compromise, seems basically fixed now.

  • #44
    2 years ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 1,977

    @Beardedragon said:
    it used to be as expensive as the Zis barrage, as far as i can remember, and no one used it.

    no one even used the tank in general back then.

    talk about barrages you know what no one else uses either? the Zis Barrage.

    the barrage is too innaccurate and does too little for the insane cost it has.

    As far as I can remember, its been a very, very long time since this thing had a munitions cost attached to its barrage, must've been even prior to WFA when they removed it. No one used it back then because the meta was SU-85 spam. For a very long time.

    The barrage is actually quite reasonbly placed as it gives an AT unit a reasonable AI potential. It basically makes your AT gun into a mini-howitzer for a short time. I'd consider that to be quite the boon. Its like giving the Panther an ability to not suck at shooting on the move. Or shooting in general.

  • #45
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,006

    I would have gone with 30 muni and slightly tightened up the long range scatter. Still, 15s a good starting point if we're not putting in any stat changes. We'll see how it goes.

  • #46
    2 years ago
    Its still got the super long cooldown so i think the cost is fine. I wouldnt buff the barrage either personally because imo the barrage is already such a huge advantage
  • #47
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,567

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Hingie said:
    Yeah, right, because those token 15 mun are going to change its performance vs tanks at long range, which was the main complaint in this thread. I'd say the barrage should cost the same amount as the ZiS one does.

    it used to be as expensive as the Zis barrage, as far as i can remember, and no one used it.

    no one even used the tank in general back then.

    talk about barrages you know what no one else uses either? the Zis Barrage.

    the barrage is too innaccurate and does too little for the insane cost it has.

    You remember wrong.
    It was free since day 1.
    Its balance factor was cooldown, which is 3x longer then that of ZiS, which could be spammed.
    Its also more inaccurate then ZiS barrage.

  • #48
    2 years ago

    For how cheap it is/how early you can bring it out, it does slightly overperform at its max range (60), which imo is the only problem with it now that the barrage is no longer free.

  • #49
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,852

    I think it's fine. It's nice gun and speed is compensated for by the fact that it's made of paper.

  • #50
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 679
    edited December 2016
    Maybe a small nerf at long range pen? It pens heavys a bit to often.

    I needs to stay effective as a med tank destroyer, and also be mobile because how fragile it is.
  • #51
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited December 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    I think it's fine. It's nice gun and speed is compensated for by the fact that it's made of paper.

    Better range then the STUG, better penn, has arty barrage...oh and the stug is also paper... try having it face even a T34 76 and see how fast its HP drops...and you will far more due to lower range...

    The su 76 also comes earlier... no, its not "fine" (i seriously started to hate that word)

    Nerf to range, or nerf to penn...personally the penn is a bigger issue it has no right to go and neuter even panthers at max range upfront...

  • #52
    2 years ago

    @MisterBastard said:

    @MCMartel said:
    I think it's fine. It's nice gun and speed is compensated for by the fact that it's made of paper.

    Better range then the STUG, better penn, has arty barrage...oh and the stug is also paper... try having it face even a T34 76 and see how fast its HP drops...and you will far more due to lower range...

    The su 76 also comes earlier... no, its not "fine" (i seriously started to hate that word)

    Nerf to range, or nerf to penn...personally the penn is a bigger issue it has no right to go and neuter even panthers at max range upfront...

    the stug isnt paper it has more hp than the su76 but less than the t34. it also has an MG to kill infantry as it backpedals, the su76 doesnt.

    and the su76 does not reliably penetrate panthers front armor at max range. most shots will bounce.

  • #53
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    @Beardedragon said:
    and the su76 does not reliably penetrate panthers front armor at max range. most shots will bounce.

    Man seriously stop writing things without checking Stats...

  • #54
    2 years ago
    What about using target tables to reduce su76 damage vs big cats? 80 damage default 100 at vet3. Then you need an ass pile of them to snowball but they can still fuck up mediums as intended. This would also push for a real use for the panther (big cat status)
  • #55
    2 years ago

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    and the su76 does not reliably penetrate panthers front armor at max range. most shots will bounce.

    Man seriously stop writing things without checking Stats...

    ill change it to many shots will bounce instead then.

    and the su76 dont deal a ton of damage.

  • #56
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721
    edited December 2016

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    What about using target tables to reduce su76 damage vs big cats?...

    There is little reason both stug and SU-76 penetrate medium nearly 100% at max range. Their max range penetration needs to go down...

    @Beardedragon said:

    ill change it to many shots will bounce instead then.

    If I may offer my advice, try writing less post of higher quality. If you spend more time actually checking what you have written people might stat paying more attention to what you write.

    And no, you do not have to respond to this post simply take it or leave it...

  • #57
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    What about using target tables to reduce su76 damage vs big cats?...

    There is little reason both stug and SU-76 penetrate medium nearly 100% at max range. Their max range penetration needs to go down...

    @Beardedragon said:

    ill change it to many shots will bounce instead then.

    If I may offer my advice, try writing less post of higher quality. If you spend more time actually checking what you have written people might stat paying more attention to what you write.

    And no, you do not have to respond to this post simply take it or leave it...

    then heres my "quality" post based on my own observations from having played a lot of soviet and wehrmacht from a 4v4 point of view.

    the SU76 does not need to be nerfed and if it does, it needs to be in baby steps. it already gets the munitions cost now, lets start with that and see how it goes. People dont only buy this tank for its AT capabilities, but for its utility also.

    And no matter how powerful you guys make this tank out to be, i have yet to see any of my 4v4 game with a swarm of su76s. Why? because even though it might have good stats for a 75 fuel unit, its still, in general, better to use the SU85 in the late game. thereby the su76 doesnt overlap with the su85, people still use the su85.

    2 SU85s would have the power of what? 4 SU76s? lets mix that micro action in to the fact that the soviet as whole is a micro fest already with MGs with a low firing arc and tank destroyers that have no turret, and you have yourself a coctail of APM that rises beyond stress level.

    2 SU85s will in most cases always benefit you more than 4 su76s because you can focus a little more on something else. its not easy to control 4x su76s thats made of paper when they also dont have a turret.

    thats about that part, but what about when the su76 comes out directly? why does it need to be so good? i think it needs to be good because it carries more weight. a soviet player going tier 1 to 3 wont have any AT at all by stock, so i think the su76 needs to be good to make up for the fact that its basically the first AT unit those soviet player types get.

    what weight does the Stug carry? not insanely much. you can just get an AT gun if you want, its not a tier you can forgo in any possible way, unlike the soviets.

    im writing these things both as someone who play soviet a lot, but also as someone who plays wehrmacht a lot. i dont understand peoples need to nerf the su76. i never really have any problems fighting against this thing, and ive never seen people pick su76 spam over su85s in anyway in the late game. im writing the part about the SU85 because OP was talking about how the 85 version became obsolete, which i disagree with.

    is the SU76 cost efficient? yes it is, much of the soviet infantry and tanks are. is it TOO cost efficient? i dont think so. because if it was, people would buy them over the 85 version, and again, ive never seen people do that in the late game.

    the munitions cost on the su76 is fine, or at least a fine start. lets see what happens from there. there is also the other point of the change to the T70. no one used this unit (like ever) in 4v4 games due to its low hp. now that it was changed to do less damage to infantry but got more hp in return, i think we're gonna see this unit in action a lot more than before. the su76 will probably be used less now more so than before, because of the T70 change, at least in 4v4 games.

  • #58
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    @Beardedragon said:
    then heres my "quality" post based on my own observations from having played a lot of soviet and wehrmacht from a 4v4 point of view.

    PLS read this before anymore "quality" post
    https://www.coh2.org/topic/56469/tank-destroyer-time-to-kill-stats

  • #59
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    then heres my "quality" post based on my own observations from having played a lot of soviet and wehrmacht from a 4v4 point of view.

    PLS read this before anymore "quality" post
    https://www.coh2.org/topic/56469/tank-destroyer-time-to-kill-stats

    do i suddenly need your approval to make a comment based on my observations in the game? im playing mid skill, so if you have a different view of the su76 in a high ranked game, good for you.

    i dont agree with you in general and i dont have to.

    besides what am i supposed to look at with that chart?

    if i get it right, it takes an SU76 between 111-132 sec to kill a Kingtiger where it takes a Stug 64-81.

    whats the problem?

    even when killing tigers the su76 got a longer time before the tiger dies than the stug if i read it correctly.

    what exactly am i looking at that makes the su76 so op?

  • #60
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    @Beardedragon said:
    do i suddenly need your approval to make a comment based on my observations in the game? im playing mid skill, so if you have a different view of the su76 in a high ranked game, good for you.

    I never said that and you don't. You have the right to right thing that are simply wrong and express ill-informed opinions. You also have the right to read relative material and improve you knowledge on the subjects. The Choice is your.

    I am choosing not to bother reading poor quality misinformed views of people to refuse to improve their klowdge and spam post one after the other.

    So pls as favor stop quoting me because is don't want to have to check my notification for post I will not read...

  • #61
    2 years ago

    Beard has a point, numbers are not everthing. there is chance in the game wich i realy like about it.

    but if the su 76 is so OP then the stug is a worse offender. but i never see some one calling it op.

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