[UKF, OST][ALL modes] Comet armor

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  • #32
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    Game is not balanced for 2v2+ it's balanced for 1v1. Where a comet is 1 off, at best you might see 2 in a game. So can we please stop this.

    ...makes paks and stugs obsolete...and Panthers overpriced, specalized lackluster Tanks (TD)

    You ppl have no objectivity.

    Its clear, but you refuse to accept it because you enjoy sealclubbing.

    A faction with superior double bren tommy blobs, land matress, great area denial emplacements, cromwells, AT guns, etc. does not need a tank that crushes and obliterates 4 man infantry squads even more than they are already been crushed.
    To add insult to injury NOT ONE OST non doctrinal AFV can come close to AI capabilities USF, or UK AFVs have.

    In the last War painting chamopionship, OST had abysmall win ratio versus western Allies.
    I think its more than obvious who is gettiing the short end of the stick.

  • #33
    2 years ago

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @Kurfürst said:
    So we all agree that the Panther AoE needs to be buffed to Comet levels, right? Since its fine with the Comet, it will be fine with the Panther.

    This logic is not great. You gonna add 30 armor to the comet as well and sync their reload times?

    What's the point here, that the panther isn't as good? So what? Is their a rule that axis needs to have the best tanks >always?

    Relic's design. Its says Strong mid-late game for OST. Meaning their T3 and T4 tanks, which are supposed to carry Wehr from defense to offense. It works the exact opposite now. OST have a glorified "tank hunter" that can do only one job, and even not very good at that and needs a myriad of expensive support units and teching to function.

    UKF is supposed to be defensive faction with lots of emphasis on defense and it gets... an easier to tech and excellent-vs-all-and highly survivable generalist tank with excellent abilities.

    The EXACT same reason why Relic decided to make Panther an anti-tank tank. It could be spammed late game and as long as it was fast, highly protected and highly effective against tanks and infantry alike, SOV players did not stand much of a chance late game once there's more than just one.

    Which is exactly why the nerf baton needs to hit the Comet, and hit it hard.

    Don't think so, the comet costs more and requires a side-tech. It should be better than the panther.

    Its actually cheaper to tech then the OST Panther and is only marginally more expensive for having strong AI and strong AT, WP shells, flanking speed, and throwing mills bombs. The only way to get a Panther earlier is to rely exclusively on Pios and MG42s for about 25 minutes. Good luck with that as Wehr.

    @Kurfürst said:
    The others simply lack the penentration power required, since StuG and PaK has too low Pen to penetrate the 290 frontal armor, and the Comet will usually destroy them well before they can wipe the Comet. TWP consumes munition but can't kill the Comet since it can just backpedal for another a run after repairs.

    What? The pak40 has a 66% chance of penetrating a comet at max range. By comparison, a zis gun has a 56% chance of > penetrating a a panther, and the Brit AT gun has a 59%.

    Does the PaK 40 has a six men crew like the Zis? Does the Panther have mills bombs, WP, flanking speed and equal AoE to the Panzer IV? No. Does it face myriad of potent TDs that easily wreck it and have to help out a faction in the downtime

    Your comparison is just neglected a 'couple' of factors. It doesn't matter if the Panther is slightly

    I'm not sure what your complaint about TWP is here, you can stun-lock tanks with your AT gun (and btw the AT guns > penetration goes up to 400 when you use that ability). That's pretty damn great.

    TWP is just a muni bleed against comets since it no longer stops the tank in its tracks like it used to be and thus can't kill it unless the Comet decides to sit in front of a PaK for about 30 secs. Sure, you lock its gun, burn some muni. It backpedals, comes back a minute later with vengence and WP shells, fully, repaired.

    Two comets cost an asston of fuel and take a while to get to. If you're allowing comets to get to "critical mass" you're losing the fuel battle.... badly.

    In a faction that can easily sit on its ass behind mortar pits and bofors, build 3 ISs and call it a day handling OST mainline it's ass all day. And as if amassing Comets would be such a huge challange, its very easy to keep the first one alive while it keeps bleeding everything, and the second one will arive about 6-7 minutes later.

    By the way, I wouldn't attack people's reading comprehension when you give them 5 paragraphs to read. We're not getting graded or paid here so don't expect people to put in the effort to read a full post of that size.

    They teach people to read for free nowadays and neither it is compulsory to participate in balance threads you did not read in the first place.

  • #34
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @MCMartel said:
    Game is not balanced for 2v2+ it's balanced for 1v1. Where a comet is 1 off, at best you might see 2 in a game. So can we please stop this.

    Being balanced around 1vs1 does not mean being broken in other modes. And why stop this thread? I someone think that the Comet over-perform one should be able to express his opinion in a thread about Comets....

    Finally try "field recovery operation" and see how one can have multiple Comets

    yes well Panthers can roll out faster than Comets can for Wehrmacht, sitting on a price of 175 fuel in a 4v4 game, and stalling is something Wehr and OKW does together pretty well.

    so yea the game is balanced for 1v1 where people complain about Panthers, but for 4v4 they work just fine, in fact, its very easy to get Panthers in a 4v4 game. Panthers can seem expensive and underwhelming in 1v1, but in 4v4 they are beasts roaming in packs.

    vice versa does the Comet work very well and is well balanced in 1v1 games, but can be too easy to get in 4v4 games.

    Neither tank is broken in 4v4, and both tanks are expensive to get in 1v1.

    besides, in a 4v4 game you can support the big panther with even bigger stuff like king tigers or elephants if you went such a doctrine. The brits cant really support their comets with something bigger.

  • #35
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Yes mister, just accuse me of being nonobjective. You can buy 2 stugs for the price of one comet, not including the substantial tech cost for a comet. Panther's do fine versus comets with their massive armor, super speed, and excellent pen, sorry but your point doesn't hold water and a sampling of a handful of games during a single tournament is hardly a reasonable measure. And I play most often as ost, not as UKF, so I'm not "seal clubbing" I hardly ever have trouble with armor, OST's at is fine.

  • #36
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    we where talking about 2vs2 actually read before responding pls

  • #37
    2 years ago
    MisterBastardMisterBas… Posts: 285
    edited November 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    Yes mister, just accuse me of being nonobjective. You can buy 2 stugs for the price of one comet, not including the substantial tech cost for a comet. Panther's do fine versus comets with their massive armor, super speed, and excellent pen, sorry but your point doesn't hold water and a sampling of a handful of games during a single tournament is hardly a reasonable measure. And I play most often as ost, not as UKF, so I'm not "seal clubbing" I hardly ever have trouble with armor, OST's at is fine.

    As is said, lack of objectivity, you refuse to accept anything you dislike

    "sampling of a handful of games "

    If those guys cant make it work than something is wrong----

    "You can buy 2 stugs for the price of one comet"

    And loose them without doing much facing a Comet as they lack range, armor, penetration, and most importantly, good infatry support to hold the enemy at range...

    "Panther's do fine versus comets with their massive armor, super speed, and excellent pen"

    Panthers penn is almost the same, while it has a horrible ROF and miserable 50 % accuracy on the move ...among other things...

    "Massive armor" that gets penned by SU 76s frontally at max range lol...

  • #38
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @MCMartel said:
    Game is not balanced for 2v2+ it's balanced for 1v1. Where a comet is 1 off, at best you might see 2 in a game. So can we please stop this.

    Being balanced around 1vs1 does not mean being broken in other modes. And why stop this thread? I someone think that the Comet over-perform one should be able to express his opinion in a thread about Comets....

    Finally try "field recovery operation" and see how one can have multiple Comets

    this is what you wrote. where does it state this refered to 2v2 only? McMartel said 2v2+ that includes 3v3 and 4v4.

    so please learn to read yourself before responding.

    my point was entirely valid.

    some talk about 2v2 but not everyone, nor is the thread itself about 2v2 but all modes. so again, my point is valid from a 4v4 point of view.

  • #39
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited November 2016

    @Beardedragon said:
    some talk about 2v2 but not everyone, nor is the thread itself about 2v2 but all modes. so again, my point is valid from a 4v4 point of view.

    As always you right just keep telling yourself that...

    First of all what you need to understand is that Comet is medium tank and Panther is hybrid. It is tank with main gun of tank destroyer so the 2 vehicles do not fill the roles...

    The second thing you need to understand that the forum is not place to prove that you right but place to contribute in a positive manner.

  • #40
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    some talk about 2v2 but not everyone, nor is the thread itself about 2v2 but all modes. so again, my point is valid from a 4v4 point of view.

    As always you right just keep telling yourself that...

    First of all what you need to understand is that Comet is medium tank and Panther is hybrid. It is tank with main gun of tank destroyer so the 2 vehicles do not fill the roles...

    The second thing you need to understand that the forum is not place to prove that you right but place to contribute in a positive manner.

    you say that yet you wrote to me: we where talking about 2vs2 actually read before responding pls".

    which in itself is a shitty thing to say.

    so get down from your high horse. you were wrong when you said it was about 2v2 when it fact it was not. so im telling you to read before responding, like you told me.

    i tried to make my contribution and you decided to shoot it down with something that WASNT even related to the topic, by saying i need to read before responding.

    so im sorry vipper, but i respectfully disagree with your crap to the "second of all part".

  • #41
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited November 2016

    @Beardedragon said:
    you were wrong. thats all.

    I will respond only if you have something remotely relevant to the topic at hand, enjoy having the last word as usual. Have a nice day and bb.

  • #42
    2 years ago

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    you were wrong. thats all.

    I will respond only if you have something remotely relevant to the topic at hand bb.

    i did have something relevant and i posted it. you decided to tell me to learn to read before responding. how is that relevant? at all?

    it isnt. so take your own advice.

  • #43
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    thread says all modes so i can bloody well talk about 4v4 if i want, just like some talk about 1v1 and 2v2.

    One is an expensive tank destroyer, the other is an expensive all round tank.

    both are expensive to get in 1v1.

    both are easy to get in 4v4.

    in team games both axis factions can get Panthers, where only the Brits gets the comet. these "op" comets wont come in big numbers unless everyone picks brits, where as panthers comes in high numbers regardless of faction. the wehrmacht Panther even cost 175 fuel only where as the Comet cost more. not only that but the wehr panther has more armor than the Comet.

    also, as far as i recall at least the Wehr AT gun has the highest pen of all AT guns, so it, mixed with lower comet armor means higher pen chance. thats a bit more problematic for allied AT guns versus a panther with more armor. by that im guessing one comet + AT gun has a lower chance of winning than a Panther with an AT gun.

    in 1v1 i doubt comets are a huge problem.

    and in 4v4? they really aint either.

  • #44
    2 years ago

    A team game thread disguised as a 1v1 thread to get more attention. Hardly anyone used Brits in last tournament. If you are talking about 2v2s and beyond, axis has a small unnoticeable lead in those games modes. After next patch, axis will have a huge lead over allies again in those games modes. Soviets will not be viable in team games if the patch remains like this.

  • #45
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Beardedragon said:
    also, as far as i recall at least the Wehr AT gun has the highest pen of all AT guns,...

    It does not the Pak40 and 6 Pounder have the exact same penetration.

  • #46
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited November 2016

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    also, as far as i recall at least the Wehr AT gun has the highest pen of all AT guns,...

    It does not the Pak40 and 6 Pounder have the exact same penetration.

    so i did make a mistake. fair point.

    but that doesnt change that comets really dont feel like a problem in 4v4 at all and i play wehr as much as soviets.

    reading what others have read i doubt they pose much of a problem in 1v1, or at least not more so than a regular panther either.

  • #47
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,032

    @Katitof said:

    @Lazarus said:
    The Brits don't need an uber generalist tank. There's just no call for it.

    They actually do.
    Brits were made from the scratch to match axis late game armor in every way.

    Okay... and no Axis tank, barring the doctrinal Tigers, is anything remotely close to as strong a generalist tank as the Comet is. I know you do use a little hyperbole, but the Axis don't have anything anywhere near a Croc either so that would never be non-doc...

    So I mean - yeah if we think it should be a Tiger, put the limit on it like the Tiger it's emulating.

    Or don't and bring it in line with the stock tanks it's matching - which are generally garbage at one thing, excellent at another.

  • #48
    2 years ago

    OST have snares, so i wouldent say that the comet can just run in mindless i get away with it. I guess theres plenty of options to stop comets for OST. One is easy stoped if you are prepeared for it (whish use to arrive pretty late), if the game has going on for too long and you expect two, well then you have: At guns, PG with doubble schreks "hurts as hell" Panthers, Tiger. You should be able to at least have one each of those units which would sertanly force the comets to retreat or snare it to easy take it out. If the enemy gets 3, well blame youre self for not taking enought control of the fuel..

  • #49
    2 years ago
    newshatterhandnewshatte… Posts: 278
    edited November 2016

    Yeah commet is a bit too good at everything. And panther is a bit weak against infantery while AI is needed for axis because their infantery is mostly worse at AI than allied inf. Also panther has to deal with better TDs. So slight nerf for commet and small buff panther is due I think.

    @MisterBastard said:
    When you use HMGs and paks as abackbone of OST staying power (and everyone loves to repeat that BS) this happens...

    This kind of cheese "AOE off map death" is easy to avoid even by the most inept player blobbing Tommys...static units just dont cut it.

    Don't place all the static weapons at the same location and retreat mgs if you see red smoke from offmap artillery. This kind of static weapon placement is imo just as bad as the Tommy blobs you refer to.

  • #50
    2 years ago
    Even "balanced" around being a one off id take the comet over any (and i mean any) tank in the game for any job. That says alot. Its the ak47 of the game- when you absolutely positively need to kill every mother fucker on field accept no substitute
  • #51
    2 years ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434
    edited December 2016
    Nerf its armour a bit. It had no more than a Cromwell (which all it essentially is is a nicely buffed Cromwell - similar to the T34-85 from the T34-76 in terms of succession) but in-game it has the same as a non-vetted panther. Going along the lines of the recent patch mod "giving units clear roles" etc etc like what they did to the puma/aec they too can reduce its ai potency. In context it helps balance in also distinguishing itself from the Churchill heavy infantry tank. But any buffs to the Panther would have to be light as not to bake it OP.

    Comet really acts as a Tiger on steroids though. People have to also consider balance for all skilled players, fun and team games. Of which more play the latter. USF mortar was a much bigger problem in team games; hence it being number 1 for the nerf bat. Balance for team works for 1v1 and vice versa if done correctly. And the current modders doing the patch understand this from watching the Relic stream last night.
  • #52
    2 years ago
    MCMartelMCMartel Posts: 1,855

    Nerf it like they nerfed the churchill into uselessness? No way. If the panther needs a buff (arguable, but certainly not ridiculous) buff it, but don't insist that a tank that functions like the t-34/85 or ez8 be limited to 1.

  • #53
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,032
    edited December 2016

    @MCMartel said:
    Nerf it like they nerfed the churchill into uselessness? No way. If the panther needs a buff (arguable, but certainly not ridiculous) buff it, but don't insist that a tank that functions like the t-34/85 or ez8 be limited to 1.

    Come on, at vet 3 (not unreasonable, given the stupid buffs from the auto-buy tank commander) this thing performs worlds beyond the E8/T34-85 before you even consider warspeed, WP shells and the grenades (both auto-lobbed and targeted)

  • #54
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,640

    @MisterBastard said:
    When you use HMGs and paks as abackbone of OST staying power (and everyone loves to repeat that BS) this happens...

    This kind of cheese "AOE off map death" is easy to avoid even by the most inept player blobbing Tommys...static units just dont cut it.

    Whaaat?
    If you blob on very tight space, you're being punished for that with a single off-map?
    AMIGAWD IMBLANCE!

  • #55
    2 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    The grenades are insane, i once saw one get in the middle of a blob and throw 6 simultaneous grenades
  • #56
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,640

    @pablonano said:
    The grenades are insane, i once saw one get in the middle of a blob and throw 6 simultaneous grenades

    So you've seen a bug and are pretending its actual mechanic.
    Nice.

  • #57
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @Katitof said:

    If you blob on very tight space, you're being punished for that with a single off-map?

    Actually there is a very deadly Off map combo, the "white phosphorous barrage" that slow down units and the "incendiary artillery barrage". You might want to actually take a look at video before commenting on it.

  • #58
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,640

    @Vipper said:

    @Katitof said:

    If you blob on very tight space, you're being punished for that with a single off-map?

    Actually there is a very deadly Off map combo, the "white phosphorous barrage" that slow down units and the "incendiary artillery barrage". You might want to actually take a look at video before commenting on it.

    God forbid there is any synergy in game.
    Can't see how that is any worse then timed stuka+reckon on retreating troops in base sector-and you don't even need 2 different factions for that.

  • #59
    2 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    I just say what i saw, if its a bug or a mecanic i dont know, since as you understand i dont see too many comets rushing blobs, specially those that manage to get vet 2
  • #60
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited December 2016

    @Katitof said:
    God forbid there is any synergy in game.

    Consider understanding what other write before responding. I pointed out that your description of what is shown in the video is inaccurate. I also characterized the combo a deadly because it simply is, but I never claimed that it should nerfed.

    You on the other responded to something that I never claimed. It is actually simpler to admit that you where inaccurate or that you did not actually see the video...

    Can't see how that is any worse then timed stuka+reckon on retreating troops in base sector-and you don't even need 2 different factions for that.

    You should try reading that patch notes or playing the mod because you would then know that the "Stuka bombing strike" can no longer been used in base....

  • #61
    2 years ago
    Hmm the combo in that video is marvellously clever. I quite like doing something similar with ober poison smoke and bundled nades vs american player (was going to say american blobber but we all know its redundant)
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