[OKW][All modes] Issues with camouflage of raketenwerfer43

#1
2 years ago

Raketenwerfer is an excellent unit that performers on par with other AT guns despite being lower cost and its availability in t0. I feel it's over performing in the following issues.

Problem:
1. Reketenwerfer comes from t0 and is very cheap compared to Zis/Pak gun and can be retreated.
2. Camouflage from the beginning is kinda little op as multiple of them can cause a surprise to very low armor Soviet tanks.
3. Vet1 gives it no movement penality when camouflaged makes it even more troublesome as it requires no micro.

Solution
1. Make the cost to 300 MP and make the camo work only in cover. (Or move it to Battlegroup HQ and move the Infantry support gun to Command HQ without changing the cost of Rwerfer)
2. When vet1, give it camo out of cover too. This will force players to micro well during the fights.
3. Vet3 removes the movement penalty while in camo. This will force player to play safe and preserve the unit well.

Comments

  • #2
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited January 2017

    I think the camo movement penalty getting scrapped at vet 1 is a very bad idea. Maybe later in vet like you suggest, but I don't think much else is wrong with the unit. I don't think its cost should go up, as I disagree that its on par with other AT guns. It has 10 shorter range than all of em.

    It costs the same as the US AT gun which seems just about right. US AT gun has worse pen but better reload and range.

  • #3
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    The movement penalty isnt completely scrapped, its reduced by like 90% but not scrapped. Also i agree with skys that the unit isnt on par with other AT guns, thats why its cheaper. It needs to be used in pairs or not at all due to needing to be so close to the fight
  • #4
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,024

    It's nowhere near on par to other AT guns (without camo). It has shorter range, no natural green cover (hooray it can run away! Big fucking whoop, that doesn't help it fight at all), is fighting units with better AI power... As a straight up AT gun, even the 57mm is a better option - which is exactly why it isn't a straight up AT gun.

    Split the camo movement increase up between vet 1, 2 and 3 evenly but that's about the only change to make.

  • #5
    2 years ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 254

    Agree, no excuse for this unit to be this cheap where it is placed right now

    not to foget mention:

    • it can garrison buildings
    • it got fastet routating speed than any other at
  • #6
    2 years ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 418

    Solution 4: GG's way > remove it and replace it by pak40.
    For my part i think it's the best thing to do.

  • #7
    2 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    The movement penalty isnt completely scrapped, its reduced by like 90% but not scrapped. Also i agree with skys that the unit isnt on par with other AT guns, thats why its cheaper. It needs to be used in pairs or not at all due to needing to be so close to the fight

    I am pretty sure the movement penalty is scrapped. What you perceive as movement penalty are the terrain traverse penalties (e.g., going over craters). I have never compared this for the various anti-tank guns, but I know it's there!

  • #8
    2 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    OKW has got 2 units that can deal with armor from t0. Volks with there Pshreck can damage engine and Rwerfer can do the rest of the job. While we talk about assigning roles to Soviet infantry about being AT squads or AI squads, OKW player have access to both from early on. I would suggest moving Rwerfer to Battlegroup HQ. This will make OKW player to actually struggle a bit early armor. Just to compensate this, reduce the cost of Puma to like 280 MP so that he can safely get a hard hitter even after skipping battlegroup HQ early on.
    Late game he'll anyway get all the buildings in order to go for KT, thus having access to AT gun squads.

  • #9
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495

    @Sri_vaka said:
    OKW has got 2 units that can deal with armor from t0. Volks with there Pshreck can damage engine and Rwerfer can do the rest of the job. While we talk about assigning roles to Soviet infantry about being AT squads or AI squads, OKW player have access to both from early on. I would suggest moving Rwerfer to Battlegroup HQ. This will make OKW player to actually struggle a bit early armor. Just to compensate this, reduce the cost of Puma to like 280 MP so that he can safely get a hard hitter even after skipping battlegroup HQ early on.
    Late game he'll anyway get all the buildings in order to go for KT, thus having access to AT gun squads.

    sturms with their panzershreks.*

  • #10
    2 years ago

    Actually, this idea has a point.
    I strongly disagree, that rektten is OP at current game version, accuracy of this unit is meh and OKW vehicles usually come after small allied wipers like clown-car, T70 or Stuart. But real problem was that Volks now havent got a pfaust without any HQ fielded.
    At WBP ver. 1.4 volks gains a pfaust when sWS is just builded and came to battlefield, so there is a point to counter small vehicles before u have builded an HQ. So rektten is not needed so much at start of the game.
    But OKW has another problem to couter. Soviet maxim spam and british garrisoning is very easy way to get OKW out from most strategic points on closed maps with a whole of buildings. Same problem USF had and received a mortar at T0.
    If support-gun will be awaliable at T0 this problem is done, but then rwerfer needs better accuracy.

  • #11
    2 years ago

    For all its gimmicks it's incredibly frustrating to use. Very weak if the enemy gets close to it and it hits the ground a lot. The WBP at least fixes the retarded set up time problem.

  • #12
    2 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    @CartoonVillain OKW T0 has too much AT imo. Pgrens with faust, Sturm Pios with upgrades and finally Rwerfer. Giving too much AT capabilities is a bit overwhelming, that too when Soviets tanks armor is not that great. I would prefer Rwerfer in med truck so that OKW player find it hard for teching. A lot of OKW players are getting around 3 Rwerfers and sending them for scouting in camouflage behind the enemy lines. Imo camo should be given at vet3 and to compaste that, increase the range of Rwerfer.

  • #13
    2 years ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited January 2017

    I see some OKW players using the camo on raketens to scout. Then when you catch them, they just hit retreat and your infantry can't wipe them fast enough. Free scouting from OKW on a unit that shouldn't be at the front lines goes unpunished. I want to see the camo on raketens nerfed considerably and I think the patch is addressing that but I'm not sure how significant of a nerf it will be.

    Yes the raketen has the worst range, but it has the fastest turning rate and the fact that volks have fausts now, in fact they will basically have access to the faust right as a truck is produced, rak can stand to have th e detection radius of the camo nerfed. Yes T70 can clear raks with relative ease but live T70 is two hit kill, its very risky because the OKW player could have another rak or schrecks, fausts etc. Where Ostheer has mgs and pios that are vulnerable to light vehicles, OKW doesn't have any inf that is defenseless vs lights as early schrecks are quite typical. It makes light vehicle micro more difficult vs OKW but at the same time essential especially as Soviets because conscripts can't get shit done in the mid and late game.

  • #14
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 693
    edited January 2017
    Camo should cancel out retreat or a cooldown timer on it? and movement speed under camo at vet changed/removed?

    Sending out 2 sniping unaware lights scouting between enemy units stealth sight and at support for panther/jpz4.

    Becoming a cheesy play imo.
  • #15
    2 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    The camo on raketen is allowing OKW players to use it very aggressively to the extent that people cap points with it despite enemy being very near. When things go wrong, they simply retreat it but can get it back soon if he positions his med truck close. This is so wrong since an AT gun is supposed to be used defensively. Just imagine what would happen if there is retreat button on Pak40/Zis/Pounder etc. People would spam them early on (at least 2) and light vehicle suffers a lot due to this. Not to mention that mg34 has armor penetrating shots ar vet1, T0 of OKW has too much AT power.
    I would like to see an increase in detection range and/or removal of retreat on it. This will make player to have more attention on it and will use it more defensively.

  • #16
    2 years ago

    Best way to nerf the rak is to make it easier to spot with infantry when in camo so you don't have to be insanely close. Many times, you can push the entire OKW force off of an area. You think everything retreats but the camo rak did not. Then when you think its clear, you drive your vehicle in and get ambushed. Raketen has its shortcomings such as poor range but fast rotation, RoF and setup as well as the retreat and garrison features, cheap price more than make up for it. THe unit doesn't require excellent camo to be effective. As mentioned before the raketen camo creep is a cheese play. If the camo has to stay, 270 mp certainly doesn't reflect the value of the raketen and all its features.

  • #17
    2 years ago
    newshatterhandnewshatte… Posts: 278
    edited March 2017

    I agree that the stealth can be a bit cheese. Though rakketten hitting terrain and often getting oneshotted by explosives makes it kinda bad and very unreliable.

    I think it would be a good idea to:
    -buff the rakketten by letting it provide green cover.
    -make its projectile arc steeper and maybe start at a higher point to avoid terrain collisions.
    -increase the range from which it is spotted.

  • #18
    2 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 693
    edited March 2017
    I would reduce the speed buff they get with vet when camoed. In exchange for the green cover.
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