Adding the Panzer 3 to Wehr

#1
2 years ago
SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 433
edited January 2017 in Wishlist

All other factions have some sort of light 'tank'. Wehrmacht do not; they spend their time only preparing for said allied tanks and it is boring. We already have the Panzer 2 in-game for OKW, T70 for Soviets, Stuart for USF and AEC for UKF. So any historical arguments against including it on the basis of strategical relevance in the latter end of the war is not relevant.

Arguments for and against are welcome. On the basis of fun and re-invigorating Wermacht, I am for its inclusion. Other factions have generally more than one light vehicle.

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Comments

  • #2
    2 years ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 929

    Panzer 3 isn't a light tank.

  • #3
    2 years ago

    That's relative. Classification of vehicles changed throughout the war due to progression. Great example is the Pershing, which got displaced quickly and had a short operational life-span - being classed as a medium.

    Regardless, in the game, it would have the similar armour values as the Stug E and mainly be an infantry support tank (but easily fend off and attack vehicles/light tanks too - bit like the valentine suppose to be (I don't know, never use it as I hear it is meh).

  • #4
    2 years ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 929

    The Panzer 3 never got changed to a Light tank.

    Pershing got changed due to the US bringing in a tank with a bigger gun. One of the only cases of it happening.

  • #5
    2 years ago

    maybe a Marder II could be added so it does overlap with puma. never going to happen but can only dream about it

  • #6
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,524
    Id like a p3 even doctrinally.
  • #7
    1 year ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    A faction should not a get a unit just because some other factions have it. Also, the Puma, while doctrinal, fills the role OP is looking for, plus would have the same firepower.

  • #8
    1 year ago

    Such hate against the P3. #savethepanzer3thatisn'tactuallyinthegamebutwishitwasforhistoricalimmersion/funpurposes

  • #9
    1 year ago

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    That's relative. Classification of vehicles changed throughout the war due to progression. Great example is the Pershing, which got displaced quickly and had a short operational life-span - being classed as a medium.

    Regardless, in the game, it would have the similar armour values as the Stug E and mainly be an infantry support tank (but easily fend off and attack vehicles/light tanks too - bit like the valentine suppose to be (I don't know, never use it as I hear it is meh).

    "That's Relative" you say
    Well relatively speaking the only thing that made the PzIII "less" of a tank than the PzIV was a slightly smaller gun size
    The PzIII/IV's weighed practically the same, and had the same speed

    THe only distinguishing feature of the PzIII vs. the PzIV was that it was designed with even all-round armor

    tl;dr, the PzIII was not a light tank

  • #10
    1 year ago
    Omid_HesamOmid_Hesam Islamic Republic of IRANPosts: 141

    I Think The Panzer III ausf J is necessary for wehrmacht's 1941 tow tech tree
    but in custom games I want it as a doctrinal unit!

  • #11
    1 year ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    It doesn't matter what the Panzer III is classed as, what matters is what it brings to the table. Which also demands a consideration of what Ostheer already brings to the table.

    Since OP's argument is JUST the fact that Ostheer has no light tank, there is pretty much no real argument for putting it in. No surprise then that there isn't much outcry for it.

    Label it hate all you want, it's the same for all irrelevant units. Isn't USF the best 1v1 faction despite having zero heavies? Pershing didn't even change much.

  • #12
    1 year ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549

    Pz3 was toughter than a pz4 and designed to be focused more on fighting tanks, but couldnt actually face a KV-1 succesfully.

    i guess in game it would be a not-much-thoughter pz4 with 0 anti-infantry and hit like a pak-40 or a Su-76.

  • #13
    1 year ago

    Panzer III ausf J is a good idea with 50mm long barrel gun (the same as a puma) and a little lighter armor than pz4 be a good early-middle AT unit with high penetration and light damage. Best place is a T2 Leichte Mechanized Kompanie and SdKfz 222 Scout Car move to T1 Infanterie Kompanie.

  • #14
    1 year ago

    But what you would get is basically non-doctrinal Puma and less reason to tech up to T3.

  • #15
    1 year ago
    Omid_HesamOmid_Hesam Islamic Republic of IRANPosts: 141

    @comrade_daelin said:
    But what you would get is basically non-doctrinal Puma and less reason to tech up to T3.

    The puma's armor is too weak against medium tanks and we already have a undoctrinal puma in okw's tech tree
    the panzer III ausf J is a good armored support for wehrmacht's infantry in early game

  • #16
    1 year ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 929

    @Omid_Hesam said:

    @comrade_daelin said:
    But what you would get is basically non-doctrinal Puma and less reason to tech up to T3.

    The puma's armor is too weak against medium tanks and we already have a undoctrinal puma in okw's tech tree
    the panzer III ausf J is a good armored support for wehrmacht's infantry in early game

    Then go for a P4.

  • #17
    1 year ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    Well relic will not model any new units in future.

  • #18
    1 year ago
    HuntsmanHuntsman Malton North YorkshirePosts: 72

    Panzer 38t would be a good light tank but the panzer 3 with a 5cm would also be nice say one for OKW and one for Wer

  • #19
    1 year ago
    Slapnut1207Slapnut12… Posts: 49
    edited July 2017

    I hope they would add the Panzer 3 in game. Hopefully the J1 variant.
    I want it, because it's iconic and a important tank to the war effort.
    (Also for fun as well.) Note: The cannon of the J1 was a upgrade for the Panzer 3, but it wasn't the best or that great against a T34.

  • #20
    1 year ago

    I would want the Panzer 3 J1 to be a cheap unit for the Oberkommando West. It's also historically Accurate.
    Since some Panzer 3 J1s and other mid to late Variants fought in Normandy and the Italian Front.

  • #21
    1 year ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 929

    @Slapnut1207 said:
    I would want the Panzer 3 J1 to be a cheap unit for the Oberkommando West. It's also historically Accurate.
    Since some Panzer 3 J1s and other mid to late Variants fought in Normandy and the Italian Front.

    OKW don't cover Normandy or Italian front, they are the German forces in the Battle of the Bulge.

  • #22
    1 year ago

    @Vegna said:

    @Slapnut1207 said:
    I would want the Panzer 3 J1 to be a cheap unit for the Oberkommando West. It's also historically Accurate.
    Since some Panzer 3 J1s and other mid to late Variants fought in Normandy and the Italian Front.

    OKW don't cover Normandy or Italian front, they are the German forces in the Battle of the Bulge.

    In my Opinion, they should really cover everything in the late Western Front. I still think Relic
    should add the Panzer J1 as a cheap option since tanks for the OKW really are expensive. Plus
    who said it only covers the battle of the bulge?

  • #23
    1 year ago
    Slapnut1207Slapnut12… Posts: 49
    edited August 2017

    Also if it's only about the Battle of the Bulge, it should be called the battle of the bulge armies really just to make sense.

  • #24
    1 year ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 929

    @Slapnut1207 said:

    @Vegna said:

    @Slapnut1207 said:
    I would want the Panzer 3 J1 to be a cheap unit for the Oberkommando West. It's also historically Accurate.
    Since some Panzer 3 J1s and other mid to late Variants fought in Normandy and the Italian Front.

    OKW don't cover Normandy or Italian front, they are the German forces in the Battle of the Bulge.

    In my Opinion, they should really cover everything in the late Western Front. I still think Relic
    should add the Panzer J1 as a cheap option since tanks for the OKW really are expensive. Plus
    who said it only covers the battle of the bulge?

    They did during the press release for it, why both the US and German forces have those designs, the high fuel cost and cheap manpower with starter unit being able to salvage. Along with the maps that came with them being for BotB.

    Entire point of the OKW is that they have expensive tanks. Also I've always read that by 44 all the Panzer 3s had been recalled to be used for training and conversion in to Stugs.

  • #25
    1 year ago
    Slapnut1207Slapnut12… Posts: 49
    edited August 2017

    Some sources do say that Late Panzer 3s in a small number fought in Normandy and other regions in the start of the invasion. But hopefully they at least release it for the Ost heer. Also, some Panzer 3s that were used as training tanks might have been recalled to the front lines in 1945.

  • #26
    1 year ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    Panzer III was very rarely used, due to the fact that T-34s had to much armor for them to be useful. Also, the Panzer III is basically a Panzer IV, but weaker, and is a medium tank.

  • #27
    1 year ago
    Slapnut1207Slapnut12… Posts: 49
    edited August 2017

    @gydh56 said:
    Panzer III was very rarely used, due to the fact that T-34s had to much armor for them to be useful. Also, the Panzer III is basically a Panzer IV, but weaker, and is a medium tank.

    They were not rare in each front. Many Panzer 3s served in Africa, the west and in Operation Barbarossa. In the start and later parts of Barbarossa, many Panzer 3s served along with the early support
    and late anti tank Panzer IVs.

  • #28
    1 year ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 929

    @Slapnut1207 said:

    @gydh56 said:
    Panzer III was very rarely used, due to the fact that T-34s had to much armor for them to be useful. Also, the Panzer III is basically a Panzer IV, but weaker, and is a medium tank.

    They were not rare in each front. Many Panzer 3s served in Africa, the west and in Operation Barbarossa. In the start and later parts of Barbarossa, many Panzer 3s served along with the early support
    and late anti tank Panzer IVs.

    Problem is they are all long before the games multiplayer takes part.

  • #29
    1 year ago
    Slapnut1207Slapnut12… Posts: 49
    edited August 2017

    Um, the Ostheer is in 1942 to 1945. The OKW is historically 1940 to 1945 but in 1944 to 1945 in game.

  • #30
    1 year ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 929

    @Slapnut1207 said:
    Um, the Ostheer is in 1942 to 1945. The OKW is historically 1940 to 1945 but in 1944 to 1945 in game.

    In the campaign and ToW it is. In multiplayer it's 44-45. Hense having the Ostwind and Panther in the basic lineup.

  • #31
    1 year ago
    Slapnut1207Slapnut12… Posts: 49
    edited August 2017

    @Vegna said:

    @Slapnut1207 said:
    Um, the Ostheer (Campaign) is in 1942 to 1945. The OKW is historically 1940 to 1945 but in 1944 to 1945 in game.

    In the campaign and ToW it is. In multiplayer it's 44-45. Hense having the Ostwind and Panther in the basic lineup.

    What I meant is the Ostheer. I really want the Ostheer to have the Panzer 3 J1 since it's 1942 to 1945 in the campaign and has earlier vehicles. The Ostheer is suppose to be represent the Eastern German Army of the Eastern Front throughout the years of the war. In multiplayer, the Ost Heer can have the Panzer 3 J1 since it's based around 1943 to 1944.

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