[SOVIETS][ALL] Maxims poor performance

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Comments

  • #92
    3 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    I always wanted the western factions to fall in line with the eastern factions but it seems Relic doesn't care at all. It's quite obvious that while OKW, USF and UKF are duking it out, Ost and SU are crying in the corner. The most one sided 1v1 matchups are SU vs OKW with SU struggling and Ost vs USF with Ost struggling. OKW started this whole mess with excellent infantry then western allies needed double upgrades to keep up, but the eastern factions were completely ignored in the power creep until just recently when SU got its penal buffs.

    I totally agree to this. OKW has too much variance in it's infantry and AT capabilities and so is USF. If anything needs fix, these factions are to be considered first!

    It is so frustrating for Soviet player to play against OKW with their infantry having so much utility even though they come from T0 (except Obersoldot). People complain when they give PTRS to penals, where as OKW T0 has so many AT options. Just too many.

  • #93
    3 years ago
    Ace.

    Penals are really the only squad that is good (maybe a lil to good) in the early game. cons dont fight and dont scale well. Maxims only good when spammed and a moved and quite expensive.

    From the 3 units that can be used in a opening 1 is good 1 is meh and 1 is meh or spam.
    Still forcing doctrine choices imo, other factions dont force doctrine choices.
  • #94
    3 years ago
    ElSlayerElSlayer Posts: 230

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Sri_vaka said:
    Maxims at present are performing very poorly and I guess everyone will accept this. The arc is too small, late suppression, low damage and high setup time and higher cost too (need teching unlike mg42) makes it very less attractive.

    Possible solutions

    1. Move maxims to T0, make it 280 MP, revert setup time and increase damage little bit. OR
    2. Move it to T1 and move scout car to T2. Revert set-up time. This is better as Soviet player cannot access Zis if he goes Maxim + Penal spam and bleeds MP heavily. Also Scout car+ Penal spam can be eliminated.

    Other suggestions are also welcomed.

    I strongly believe that maxims should be buffed to make soviets little strong early on. They are anyway weak late game (AI wise) compared to Axis counterparts.

    why would you want the scout car in tier 2? no units spawning from there can get in to it.

    But you can always pick commander with Shock Troops. I've heard that "Shocks in M3" are great! (:pqumsieh:)

  • #95
    3 years ago
    @Sri_vaka OKW has too much variance in it's infantry and AT capabilities?
    OKW is supposed to be the late war western front german army, agressive and powerful with very specialized units but very limited in numbers. At the moment the most versatile and powerful unit is sturmpios that can equip one panzerschreck which you wont have more than 2 squads of those and the raketen? Well it can come early (only useful to counter clowncar) but it is rubbish for the most part. So in my oppinion OKW doesnt have variance in it's AT capabilities, if you lose the first tank it's pretty hard to comeback versus a decent player.
  • #96
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    You guys do realise that OKW is the Axis faction that really suffers agaisnt SOV mainly due to the penals op live version completely dominating the early game? OST has the mg-42 as a backbone supression platform allowing any half decent player to lock down early penals, that coupled with the early 222/flametrack meant that most games penals weren't really able to get any hits in until guards and 120mm mortar smoke was available to cover their weaknesses.

    OKW on the other hand has neither the ability to have a light vehicle at the 5min mark nor a decent supression platform as the flaktrack and mg34 are crap. Hence why Sov has been steamrolling them since the last patch that updated penals, as OKW has nothing to stop them really prior the schwerer and obers.

  • #97
    3 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    @Farra13 said:
    You guys do realise that OKW is the Axis faction that really suffers agaisnt SOV mainly due to the penals op live version completely dominating the early game? OST has the mg-42 as a backbone supression platform allowing any half decent player to lock down early penals, that coupled with the early 222/flametrack meant that most games penals weren't really able to get any hits in until guards and 120mm mortar smoke was available to cover their weaknesses.

    OKW on the other hand has neither the ability to have a light vehicle at the 5min mark nor a decent supression platform as the flaktrack and mg34 are crap. Hence why Sov has been steamrolling them since the last patch that updated penals, as OKW has nothing to stop them really prior the schwerer and obers.

    If played properly, OKW player can get AI Flak half-track by 6 min mark that will beat the s**t out of penals. It insta suppresses them and Soviet player will not have access to Zis field gum.

  • #99
    3 years ago

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    If penals didnt dominate the early game it would have to be maxims. Somehow being 300mp AI specialist inst a good enough reason to stomp the competition but for a whole 10 mp more than cons you get volks who will beat cons mercilessly, will get their snare for 10 fuel cheaper and both the snare and the superior molitov will be part of tech, which also grants access to a handy non doc dps upgrade... Not bad for 10 mp,

    This point has been beaten home like a dead horse. Because it is SOOOO true. Ever since volks got their stgs, 250 has been too cheap of a price for a unit like volks.

  • #100
    3 years ago
    Sri_vakaSri_vaka India Posts: 45

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    This point has been beaten home like a dead horse. Because it is SOOOO true. Ever since volks got their stgs, 250 has been too cheap of a price for a unit like volks.

    Volks would still lose to cons in the mid range if microed properly. But the issue here is with the tech-free incendiary grenade and WBP Pfaust buff. Molotovs upgrade is ,imo as useless as "Trip wire flare" vet1. I hope they give cons/Penals molotovs when you research medics.

  • #101
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824

    @Sri_vaka said:
    Volks would still lose to cons in the mid range if microed properly.

    until STGs become available that is, basicly for 10mp more you get infinitly better scaling and no additional costs either

    the stand out issue is, has been and until it changes always will be that the soviet "backbone" has all the integrity of a wet noodle, if the maxim is trash the soviet will use penals, if penals suck too the soviet will hold on for a doctrinal replacement.

    the lone unit that SHOULD be spammed from a lore and design stand point, isnt able to be, they are the most punished by supression ontop of delaying armour to be brought up to standard (well, substandard) considering the additional costs cons should be beating volks at every turn, they should be needing the stgs to get on par, not widen the gap further

    and as long as volks are LITERALLY better conscripts in every nearly every way there will never be a need/reliance on conscripts which means something else HAS to be "mainline" infantry

    in the end WFAllies need nerfed, so volks can be nerfed, so penals can be brough from REQUIRED WFA standards and back to propper EFA levels. all problems come from there....

    bit off topic for maxim but i think it all ties in...

  • #102
    3 years ago
    Yup soviet dont have many decent options left after nerfing maxims and soon the guards also cons dot pull the weight they should considering how much more effective volks are for just 10mp more and no side tech on a faction wich floats mp mostly.

    I agree with the notion that the western factions mainline inf need toning down. Other wise grens and cons will forever be behind.
  • #103
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    Not that I am disagreeing that volks don't need nerfs, but didn't they used to cost more to reinforce per vet level? That would probably be a good way to reduce just how cost effective they are over the course of the game.

    Maxims with spacing and death loop changes would form a good baseline to see how viable vet affects their performance, after that its simply take away their sight so they can't be used independently and probably revert the triple nerf.

  • #104
    3 years ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 696
    edited January 2017
    Just tone down wfa inf and cons can protect maxims instead of another maxim.

    Imo reducing sight is not the way. 6 men seeing less then 4 men?
    The triple nerf woudnt have happend if soviet had more decent options in early game instead of spam or loose and then there is forced doctrine issue.

    Guards being spammed is also in part because of this and they fill a gap in t1 atm. But again triple nerf incoming and no real compensation for it.
  • #105
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647
    edited January 2017

    If they have limited sight, they cannot be used independently. Hence not spammable. That way you can buff the maxim and know that it still requires other units with it too work, otherwise you will have to change the entire design as an incredibly mobile, assualt mg thats available at t1 and doesn't require support.

    Guards needed their AI toned down, they were outrading nearly every axis squad in firefights with massive PTRS burst damage, they are supposed to be jack of all trades and masters of none. The cost nerf was only part I disagreed with.

  • #106
    3 years ago
    Their sector would need to widend as well. Other wise it wil be yet another stat worse then other mgs.
  • #107
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    .... you don't understand. If you nerf its sight. It cannot be used alone. If it cannot be used standalone, it cannot be spammed as it requires a spotter unit to work like the mg-42 for example.

    If it can't be spammed, it can be buffed. You can fix its cone, setup time etc. It will just require other units with it to work. That's how it should have been designed in the first place.

  • #108
    3 years ago
    Maybe i need to see it. But right now it feels strange to me, the mg 42 has normal sight already and pios got a sight buff to support them
  • #109
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647
    edited January 2017

    The mg-42 doesn't have full sight of its own cone, it requires a second unit (like the pios) to spot for it. It cannot work on its own.

    The maxim should do the same, as currently having an mg that self spots, setups very quickly and is rather durable is a bad combo, as it allows it to work independently hence the spam. But the reason its spammed is because it isn't effective on its own, but multiple maxims are and since they don't need any other unit to work with them. Well... we all see the results of that.

  • #110
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    While reducing los would be nice, its effects would be limited. The INSTANT another squad sees the maxim itll start shooting ans so the maxim will return fire. Also the maxim problem is attack moving multiple, so even if you manage to sneak up on 1 the 2-4 behind it will be happy to make you eat dirt
  • #111
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Holy fuck people we are over thinking this.
    What about treating it like the old kuble? Needs to be stationary for a few seconds before it cam supress.
    Now it cam deal support dps and if set up before an attack can supress. This would mean it cant speed racer spin and supress threats either, hurt them yea, but not put them out of the fight...
  • #112
    3 years ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549
    edited January 2017
    Maybe making it suppress less when set up and adding more and more suppresion the longer it is deployed would be a good buff-nerf, adding some arc of fire aswell
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