[all] Tanks

#1
2 months ago
GoYellowFoxGoYellowF… Posts: 17
edited March 13 in Balance Feedback

Problem :s

  1. Heavy machinery of the Vermacht Elite Forces Doctrine is developed incorrectly
  2. M26 Pershing too vulnerable
  3. IS-2 bad bonus for the veterans. Little doctrine with this tank
  4. The Commander Pantheris too strong
  5. Very weak КV1/t34-85/t34-76

Solution :)

  1. Royal Tiger would be much more suitable than Elite Tiger. If it costs 17 doctrine points with the price of 720 manpower 260gaz, it would be really unique elite tank. Also I offer to replace Royal Tiger with Obberkommando West ordinary Tiger and on the 4 and 5 lvl increase of health to 1200(cause he's got less armor than IS-2) and increase of shooooting range to 65 to increase firepower and to make more unique.
  2. Also I suggest to increase hp of M26 Pershing to 960 and make it Tier4.
  3. Soviet IS-2 suggest replacing 1 veteran from capturing a point with increased splash damage. Also add IS in the other doctrines.
  4. Also I suggest to forbid Commander Panther to deal more damage to marked targets itself
  5. Increase penetration of КV1 and t34-85/t34-76
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Comments

  • #2
    2 months ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    Tanks are fine way they are i would only agree on IS-2 , KV-1 , T-34 vet 1 ability
    Also KV-1 needs a damage buff , could be an MG buff or accuracy buff but either way its needed.
    Maybe buff t-34/85 pen but i don't know about that one.

  • #3
    2 months ago

    @Meow said:
    Also KV-1 needs a damage buff

    I agree

  • #4
    2 months ago

    It's better to increase KV-1's durability than it's AP potential. Level it's HP to 960 points and give the tank the ability to go stationary, similar to the one of KV-2, where it gets lowered inbound damage and shoots faster. Yeah, and move KV-1 to T4.

  • #5
    2 months ago
    ReFlikReFlik Posts: 1

    Good, I also thought about it. I agree

  • #6
    2 months ago

    I agree!

  • #7
    2 months ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 419

    If anything t34-85 is borderline op so leave that alone. So is pershing. It is a sniping machine with superior range and accuracy. It's not a Tiger. You need to support it with other armor or at least some at guns and zooks to make a head on assault with it. Its not a one man army like so many believe it to be. I can accept very small hp buff to persh only after locking it behind major.

  • #8
    2 months ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 472
    T34 85 is good, but op... not even close to being op.

    Please tell me why its is so op.
  • #9
    2 months ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,833

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    T34 85 is good, but op... not even close to being op.

    Please tell me why its is so op.

    Compare it to an Ost P4. For 30 MP and 5 fuel, you get a tank that's got 160 more HP, better pen, better AI since the MG buffs and slightly more mobility.

  • #10
    2 months ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    @_Aqua_ said:

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    T34 85 is good, but op... not even close to being op.

    Please tell me why its is so op.

    Compare it to an Ost P4. For 30 MP and 5 fuel, you get a tank that's got 160 more HP, better pen, better AI since the MG buffs and slightly more mobility.

    Its doctrinal tank , has less armor than PZ4 , has worse vet stats , useless vet 1 unlike blitzkrieg on pz4.

  • #11
    2 months ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 472
    Like i said its good but a doctrinal tank being better then a non doc p4 does not make it op.

    People forget that t34 76 is the worst medium but priced as such. Soviets only have acces to good mediums via doctrines. Why bother if those are also worse the a p4?
  • #12
    2 months ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,833
    edited March 14

    Being doctrinal has never been a valid argument for a unit performing above its price. The extra 160 HP is far more reliable than the extra 20 armor and significantly better against high-pen units. Its only inferior stat with vet is armor, its still a faster, harder hitting tank that still winds up situationally winning out in durability. Its fine that it outperforms a P4, but not for the pricepoint. Something like 20mp and 10 fuel and removing Cap Territory for something useful and it would be fine.

    Science Time: Just pit vet 3 P4 versus vet 3 T34/85s in ten fights together at max range using US smoke pop so they both found and fired at the same time. Of the ten fights, the P4 won a grand total of 2.

  • #13
    2 months ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 472
    edited March 14
    Its in a few doctrines. the soviets dont have decent stock mediums, axis get 2. calling t34 85 op is just wrong imo.
  • #14
    2 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,636
    Meh, its the best tank the soviet can get (bar is-2 obviously) and it requires the highest tech the soviet can muster.
    And while its only a small armour difference at first we need to account for the huge armour bonus the p4 gets via vet.
    The 85 gets a cool 25% off its reload and a great +50% turret rotation, but 30% more armour and 40% rotation for the p4 making the p4 far more reliable, bouncing even AT gun shells.
    Does the p4 need a buff? Damn straight it does, but that doesnt make the 85 op, if you want to compare tanks at costs take a look at the e8 vs 85 (both doctrinal, full tech mediums) youll see a far larger discrepancy
  • #15
    2 months ago
    vasa171960vasa171960 Posts: 76
    1. Idea to fix tiger ass are not worse, its many ideas about it.
    2. No, maybe its need buff hp, but not add at tier 4.
    3. Is-2 need change, its heavy tank so maybe et 1 can be change, but vet1 its not main him problem.
    4. Com panther need nerf.
    5. t-34-85 and 76 are fine. Kv-1 need another change. Maybe like Miragefla do it or add more hp with CP up.
  • #16
    2 months ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    @_Aqua_ said:
    Being doctrinal has never been a valid argument for a unit performing above its price. The extra 160 HP is far more reliable than the extra 20 armor and significantly better against high-pen units. Its only inferior stat with vet is armor, its still a faster, harder hitting tank that still winds up situationally winning out in durability. Its fine that it outperforms a P4, but not for the pricepoint. Something like 20mp and 10 fuel and removing Cap Territory for something useful and it would be fine.

    Science Time: Just pit vet 3 P4 versus vet 3 T34/85s in ten fights together at max range using US smoke pop so they both found and fired at the same time. Of the ten fights, the P4 won a grand total of 2.

    Cons vs Volks , volks cost 10mp more , win vs cons much more , have faster nades , better at snare , can upgrade guns , get better vet.
    Why can't it be same with tanks but only sometimes when you choose doctrine?
    And sometimes tanks won't even face each other so that stats don't matter.
    But volks vs cons always will , its present from early game to the late game.

  • #17
    2 months ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 472
    And cons need extra tech 250 mp and 40 fuel just to get even at vet zero.

    If you get 3 cons that would be 323mp invested per squad (both techs) And still everything but pios beat them easy.

    Hell even pios can stand up them now after buff lol.
  • #18
    2 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,636
    @TheLeveler83 and that doesnt include any teching nor the only healing the soviet have access to. But anyways were getting of topic here
  • #19
    2 months ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,833

    @Meow said:

    Cons vs Volks , volks cost 10mp more , win vs cons much more , have faster nades , better at snare , can upgrade guns , get better vet.
    Why can't it be same with tanks but only sometimes when you choose doctrine?
    And sometimes tanks won't even face each other so that stats don't matter.
    But volks vs cons always will , its present from early game to the late game.

    Nobody in their right mind thinks that cons are performing for cost right now, nor that volks are acceptable.

    And yeah, those stats do matter. Just because they "might not face eachother" doesn't mean that one piece of generalist medium armor should so heavily outperform another piece of generalist medium armor for such a tiny gap in cost.

  • #20
    2 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,636
    Keep in mind rhe real tank you need to compare the 85 to: the t34/76. The 85 is 50 fuel more expensive than the 76mm and offers more pen, a hit more health and 10 armour. Really, for the cost difference of an okw p4 to an okw panther thats not a whole hell of a lot. The issue is that the p4 is UP not that the 85 is OP. Additonally t34s are supposed to fuel efficient, thus the light tank priced medium tank, if the 85 isnt going to be a meaningful upgrade it wont be used.
  • #21
    2 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 1,520
    edited March 15

    The penetration of the 34/85 does not need to be better, it's plenty good and it's very mobile so there's no need to buff it. KV-1 could be a little better, but its cost should go up with a buff just to give it better performance at least. I think the pershing should have a little more health, but something else about it should go down slightly as a trade. It does die a little quick, but it is the best offensive tank in the game without question.

    Just in the spirit of a discussion titled "tanks" can all tanks get hold fire back? Like in addition to prio? Seems weird to give us less control of our tanks. I hate when firing another shot at a vehicle causes sight to return and gets my fleeing tank killed.

  • #22
    2 months ago

    As I understand, we agree on the problem
    The difference is only in our solutions
    The main thing is that developers deal with the problem

  • #23
    2 months ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,833

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Keep in mind rhe real tank you need to compare the 85 to: the t34/76...

    True, but it does still beat the P4 handily. As I said, I think a small cost increase and giving it a vet one that's actually useful would make everyone happy. Maybe a cheap timed ability that increases turret rotation and firing accuracy?

    As to OP's other requests:
    -Swapping Tigers seems unnecessary.

    -Pershing could doesn't really need anything, but allowing it self-repair T70 style with some sort of received damage penalty. It would probably have to lose a little AoE or something though, its already a no-brainer choice as-is.

    -KV-1 needs a vet overhaul. Vet 1 Canister Shot or Engine Shot would mean you can't just ignore it while granting it 960 HP at vet 2 would make it into the meatshield its supposed to be.

    -Cmd Panther's Mark Target should be an accuracy buff. Locking it (and all other tanks) behind tech would also help prevent it from showing up time and time again.'

    -OP didn't mention it, but KV-2. OP Capture Territory, OP driveby vet and precision accuracy so stronk it needs to be nerfed immediately for risk of runing the game.

  • #24
    2 months ago

    Speaking of the T-35-85, it's main problem is: it's not felt like a new-level-of-quality-tank. For instance, the difference between the Cromwell and the Comet is fairly sensible, so is the difference between the Pz4 and the Panther, while T-34-85 is basically similar to the 76 mod, with only exception, that it can withstand 5 shots. The penetration bonus is a joke, the tanks speed is inferior to that of the 76 tank and the Panther. IMO, it'd better revamp the 85 mod, either by increasing penetration of it's main gun along with the price of the tank or decreasing it's cost, because it's really odd, that such a tiny improvement of effectivness costs as much as 50 more fuel.

  • #25
    2 months ago
    HingieHingie Posts: 1,888
    The last thing the Pershing needs is a buff. Like the Calliope, it's a unit that shouldn't exist. US arebuilt to function without a heavy-esque tank and without rocket artillery. And yet, they got both, leading to these units complementing an army which was built with several perks as to outdo the lack of these units... same goes for the Mortar, BTW. Also, buffing the T-34/76 is out of question. It costs 80 fuel. That 2/3 of a Pz IV. The 85 on the other hand greatly outperforms the Pz IV for a pittance more cost. So buffing it is out of the question too. The KV1 could get some more durability.
  • #26
    2 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,319
    edited March 17

    1) To go from Cromwell to Comet one requires additional tech cost while T-34/85 does not.

    2) To go from Ostheer PzIV to Panther one requires additional tech and the 2 vehicles have different roles.

    3) Penetration superiority is X1.33 X1.4 X1.5 and that is hardly a "Joke".

    4) Comparing the fuel cost of the T-34/85 and T-34/76 is misleading because the T-34/76 has a very low Fuel cost. If you compare the T-34/85 with the Ostheer PzIV you will see it superior for very little price difference.

    T34/85 is very cost efficient tank it does not need a buff.

  • #27
    2 months ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 552

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    Just in the spirit of a discussion titled "tanks" can all tanks get hold fire back? Like in addition to prio? Seems weird to give us less control of our tanks. I hate when firing another shot at a vehicle causes sight to return and gets my fleeing tank killed.

    I honestly hope the Mod team does look into this as a QoL perk, that and the ability to reload mgs manually would go a long way in crushing some long standing greviances.

  • #28
    2 months ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    40% more pen is not a joke , T-34 85 is so much better vs vehicles , pens 40% more shots , can survive 1 more shot (25% more) , kills infantry faster.
    Pz4 - up for price , firepower , armor , mobility combination compared to cromwell , sherman
    T34 , t34 85 are fine way they are.
    KV-1 clearly UP , t34 85 would be a better choice all the time hell even T-34 , its accuracy is bad , mgs are weak , armor is pretty good but with this firepower not worth money
    Panther - too much investment for not clear role , comet is far better premium med , with little worse AT has phenomenal AI
    Panther would need a small buff to AI or reload / range buff for AT i would personaly like to go with range to 60 so it can fight TDs from long range something that whermacht clearly lacks atm , those jacksons , su85s , fireflys demolish stugs from a range when it is possible.
    If we choose to reduce reload it becomes brawling tank for offensive pushes , use your armor and fast reload to take out tds in close range , this already has counterplay - mines , securing flanks.

  • #29
    2 months ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 492

    I still believe that the Pershing has too low of a health pool in general for a tank its cost. 300 armor is a lot but 800 health is not enough to keep it alive through engagements without constant repairs. Obviously this would require tweaks and changes in other areas.

  • #30
    2 months ago
    MakcumMakcum Posts: 68

    I agree with this post but also need increase damage ISU-152

  • #31
    2 months ago
    Boris_yeltsinBoris_yel… Posts: 65
    edited March 18

    @Meow
    If you want a better cooldwon for the Panther (even considering the fact, that it's penetration is higher than the IS-2's) then why don't you use the Hull Down ability? It boosts range of fire by 25% and reloading speed by 20% and is ABSOLUTELY FREE. 40% penetration bonus for the T-34-85 sounds really good, but in fact it's a joke. It's current price is comparable to the price of the Easy Eight which effectivness is way higher. The 85 mod's firepower is really mediocre all the way up the veterancy levels, while the OKW Panzer becomes a real threat even at the second vet. level. One can say the doctrine with guards 120 mm mortars is good enough even without T-34s, but in fact the Advanced Warfare Tactic is based on them, not to say they make it unique. If the T-35-85 is to be left like it is now, then it's price should be decreased. Speaking of the armor icrease of the 85 mod comparing to the 76 mod - it's even a bigger joke. 20 additional points of armor don't make difference at all. Look at the Easy Eight - it gets at least 45 more armor, which is considerably good. If you compare the M4 and the Easy Eight, you can feel the difference, while T-34-85 is basically a more than one and a half times more expansive T-34 version without noticible ups. And I'm not even mentioning all those Axis abilities, that weaken T-34-85 even more.

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