GCS Balance Preview Feedback

#1
3 years ago
Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 484 admin

Please post all feedback directly related to the changes proposed in the GCS Balance Preview in this thread. Any feedback not related to these changes must be posted in a separate thread or ye shall suffer the consequences!

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Comments

  • #2
    3 years ago

    While one can be excited that the Maxim is getting changes, will this this in any way affect the Dshk 38? Or was it an oversight?

    That said, promising changes so far.

  • #3
    3 years ago
    No M10 spam/crush in scope then?

    Was hesitant seeing the CM Panther in there. Preliminary feelings are that it is fair and giving a trade off of increased accuracy/pen is good.

    One thing with maxim spam is it wouldn't get punished for being flanked so not sure about the wider arc - is that arc 50cal style? I like the assymetrical design of the factions. But it is cancer and am happy that these balance previews are a thing. Keep them coming throughout he year!
  • #4
    3 years ago
    bloberblober Posts: 13
    edited April 2017

    Indeed turret armor of the comet is raised (102mm) but if you don't nerf armor of the comet, the konigstiger has 180mm armor turret so he deserves a serious armor buff. Maybe not a serious armor buff but a small, if one takes into consideration the tanks of command which increases the armor.

  • #5
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Interesting direction, some innovative changes. Excited to see more!
  • #6
    3 years ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    I thought OKW was supposed to be "the few the brave"? Such an expensive unit like Command Panther needs to be powerful enough to work on its own, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the cost.
    I don't think it needs a CP raise in that regard. The changes to the Coordinated Fire ability looks fine, though.

  • #7
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    These are some excellent proposed changes, however the only thing i'm concerned about is the calliope not be included in the scope. I understand that its slightly rarer in the 1v1 meta, but it still has the potential to replace the current LM as the completely overdominant indirect fire option. It does need a solid nerf to balance it out.

  • #8
    3 years ago

    Hey mates.... I am afraid that I might be the bringer of bad news, but... I do not think that these changes will actually be coming or are meant for real.I mean.. it is all problems that we talked about for a while now, and they are addressed now?
    On the 1st of April? Aprils fools day?!
    As good as this balance patch looks like, I do doubt that this is an actual thing, but rather believe that good old Kyle is playing a joke on us. Even if that balance patch really looks interesting... sighs

  • #9
    3 years ago

    Can you remove the deflection damage of all AT-grenades? So they become more like the Faust? This is really annoying.

  • #10
    3 years ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270
    edited April 2017

    If comets and crowmwells have been nerf, I think 20pop is excessive, panthers can be spamables in team games. With so much nerf I think the costs are good, I do not see necessary increases price/pop

    Pls, add to the main thread:

    GCS Balance Preview Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895625217

  • #11
    3 years ago
    Hesky85Hesky85 Posts: 52
    edited April 2017

    Are these changes only for the tournament and not for the live version?

    It is 1st of April and i cant believe this changes... ;)
    But overall i'm very happy to see this really necessary changes!!!
    It's what im saying over years!

    Edit: But i think the high armor of the comet is another one of the big problems. My Panzer 4 had in in the last match a 1vs1 against the comet. 3/5 shots bounces of the comet frontal armor while every shot from the comet penetrates my P4! The comet killed my P4 and had 3/4 of its HP left.... that was very anoying. And i feel like that Faust shots often dont cause a engine damage... strange.

    Edit 2:
    The Wolverine is another tank that need to be adressed. Its too strong for the price of 90 fuel.

    Edit 3:
    Maybe the pershing needs a slightly adjustment. Overall its much better than the Tiger Tank.

  • #12
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    edited April 2017

    I almost feel sorry for brits players though.
    I'm also extremely disappointed that this will be focused exclusively on nerfs instead of buffs.
    @Mr_Smith Smith con love when? :(

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:
    While one can be excited that the Maxim is getting changes, will this this in any way affect the Dshk 38? Or was it an oversight?

    That said, promising changes so far.

    There is no such thing as DSHK spam, so why would it be affected in any way?

    @Widerstreit said:
    Can you remove the deflection damage of all AT-grenades? So they become more like the Faust? This is really annoying.

    Faust have exactly same deflection damage as anyone else.

  • #13
    3 years ago
    MeowMeow Posts: 165

    I like changes a lot but still think infantry effectiveness needs to be balanced.

    Also 20 pop for comet seems overnerf 18 would be better.

  • #14
    3 years ago
    Make_love_not_warMake_love… Posts: 166
    edited April 2017

    Most changes feel right, especially turning ratio and movement accuracy reduction at Comet/Cromwell. This will really help to bring match-up PzIV vs Cromwell and Panther vs Comet inline.

    But with this changes it makes absolutely no sense to raise Comet population to 20(!). One population below Kingtiger and Jagdtiger? I personally feel it should be 18 and so should Panther which is to cheap for 16 population too. So Panther and Comet to 18 would be quite fair.

    And please buff Churchill in return to make amboss more interesting. Thx.

  • #15
    3 years ago
    ScottishNomad1988ScottishN… Posts: 35
    edited April 2017

    @Katitof said:
    I almost feel sorry for brits players though.
    I'm also extremely disappointed that this will be focused exclusively on nerfs instead of buffs.
    @Mr_Smith Smith con love when? :(

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:
    While one can be excited that the Maxim is getting changes, will this this in any way affect the Dshk 38? Or was it an oversight?

    That said, promising changes so far.

    There is no such thing as DSHK spam, so why would it be affected in any way?

    @Widerstreit said:
    Can you remove the deflection damage of all AT-grenades? So they become more like the Faust? This is really annoying.

    Faust have exactly same deflection damage as anyone else.

    Not saying there's a balance issue with them pre se. Just that things are now inconsistent. Maxim now seems more appealing than the originally more powerful and doctrinal Dshk 38 because of the increased arc. Regardless of less suppression, not having to micro the Maxim's arc as much makes the Dshk 38 less enjoyable to use in comparison.

  • #16
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:

    @Katitof said:
    I almost feel sorry for brits players though.
    I'm also extremely disappointed that this will be focused exclusively on nerfs instead of buffs.
    @Mr_Smith Smith con love when? :(

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:
    While one can be excited that the Maxim is getting changes, will this this in any way affect the Dshk 38? Or was it an oversight?

    That said, promising changes so far.

    There is no such thing as DSHK spam, so why would it be affected in any way?

    @Widerstreit said:
    Can you remove the deflection damage of all AT-grenades? So they become more like the Faust? This is really annoying.

    Faust have exactly same deflection damage as anyone else.

    Not saying there's a balance issue with them pre se. Just that things are now inconsistent. Maxim now seems more appealing than the originally more powerful and doctrinal Dshk 38 because of the increased arc. Regardless of less suppression, not having to micro the Maxim's arc as much makes the Dshk 38 less enjoyable to use in comparison.

    DSHK still supplements perfectly T1 builds and MG that isn't capable of suppressing effectively isn't appealing at all.

  • #17
    3 years ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 418
    edited April 2017

    i think panther and comet should have higher accuracy than medium tank on the move (0.65), it seems the big reason to go for them now it their armor because you'll need to be static when firing. Also as pointed out, either put panther and comet at 18 or leave it as it is, 20 is too much. Not a bad change tho so we'll see.

    For the call in, increasing the cooldown doesn't solve one of the big issue with vehicule call in and specially the heavy ones (pershing, tigers, is2, churchill etc): when you destroy them they can be instantly build back. Imo it would be better to put building time on call-in so loosing them would matter for few seconds/minutes.

    You should allow more to be changed or change more things like Changes to UKF could see some other changes with them as well (stock churchill, centaur).
    I would really love to see the wbp reverted changes to be placed in this patch, it's not big things.

  • #18
    3 years ago

    @Katitof said:

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:

    @Katitof said:
    I almost feel sorry for brits players though.
    I'm also extremely disappointed that this will be focused exclusively on nerfs instead of buffs.
    @Mr_Smith Smith con love when? :(

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:
    While one can be excited that the Maxim is getting changes, will this this in any way affect the Dshk 38? Or was it an oversight?

    That said, promising changes so far.

    There is no such thing as DSHK spam, so why would it be affected in any way?

    @Widerstreit said:
    Can you remove the deflection damage of all AT-grenades? So they become more like the Faust? This is really annoying.

    Faust have exactly same deflection damage as anyone else.

    Not saying there's a balance issue with them pre se. Just that things are now inconsistent. Maxim now seems more appealing than the originally more powerful and doctrinal Dshk 38 because of the increased arc. Regardless of less suppression, not having to micro the Maxim's arc as much makes the Dshk 38 less enjoyable to use in comparison.

    DSHK still supplements perfectly T1 builds and MG that isn't capable of suppressing effectively isn't appealing at all.

    @Katitof said:

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:

    @Katitof said:
    I almost feel sorry for brits players though.
    I'm also extremely disappointed that this will be focused exclusively on nerfs instead of buffs.
    @Mr_Smith Smith con love when? :(

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:
    While one can be excited that the Maxim is getting changes, will this this in any way affect the Dshk 38? Or was it an oversight?

    That said, promising changes so far.

    There is no such thing as DSHK spam, so why would it be affected in any way?

    @Widerstreit said:
    Can you remove the deflection damage of all AT-grenades? So they become more like the Faust? This is really annoying.

    Faust have exactly same deflection damage as anyone else.

    Not saying there's a balance issue with them pre se. Just that things are now inconsistent. Maxim now seems more appealing than the originally more powerful and doctrinal Dshk 38 because of the increased arc. Regardless of less suppression, not having to micro the Maxim's arc as much makes the Dshk 38 less enjoyable to use in comparison.

    DSHK still supplements perfectly T1 builds and MG that isn't capable of suppressing effectively isn't appealing at all.

    Things will become clear as time passes. Just had to give my initial impressions. That's what this preview is for after all. :)

  • #19
    3 years ago

    Hey,

    great patch notes so far. Especially the Comet, Command Panther and Mattress nerf. But you forgot one really high important balance issue:

    • British Vickers HMG super range at Vet 1

      It's just ridiculous how far this gun can shoot. My suggestion:

    • switch Vet 1 range increase with sight increase.

    So the Vickers won't be able to shoot over the whole map, but will be prepared if somebody crosses its way.

  • #20
    3 years ago

    This was our last game til : The team formats and Allies (2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4) are respected.

    The Axis have better unit in each categories.

    The OKW's walking Stuka destroy everything in all city maps and nearly everywhere.

    The Axis armors are way better overall.

    Now the Axis infantry are (ass gren) dominate everything.

    Axis off map and in map arties are more then excellent.

    It's seem like that only Axis can have excellent unit (list too long..), and not the Allies.

    And You still nerf Allies HMG,Tanks,our best inf (bar)...

    It's like the balance envisioned by the game creators has been stupid.

    Now you have nerfed my friends and me, (We love Allied side, but it's not playable anymore)

    We won't play anymore til some big corrections are implemented.

    Have fun playing 1vs1, if the game it's balanced, the rest is now nearly garbage.

    I hope all the champions will seriously think of the future of the game...

    I'm very very sad to have to post this as COH2 was our favorite game.

    Bye.

  • #21
    3 years ago

    This was our last game til : The team formats and Allies (2vs2, 3vs3, 4vs4) are respected.

    The Axis have better unit in each categories.

    The OKW's walking Stuka destroy everything in all city maps and nearly everywhere.

    The Axis armors are way better overall.

    Now the Axis infantry are (ass gren) dominate everything.

    Axis off map and in map arties are more then excellent.

    It's seem like that only Axis can have excellent unit (list too long..), and not the Allies.

    And You still nerf Allies HMG,Tanks,our best inf (bar)...

    It's like the balance envisioned by the game creators has been stupid.

    Now you have nerfed my friends and me, (We love Allied side, but it's not playable anymore)

    We won't play anymore til some big corrections are implemented.

    Have fun playing 1vs1, if the game it's balanced, the rest is now nearly garbage.

    I hope all the champions will seriously think of the future of the game...

    I'm very very sad to have to post this as COH2 was our favorite game.

    Bye.

  • #22
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited April 2017

    UKF
    Tank Commander Upgrade

    Allow the upgrade to be available to Centaur, AEC and Churchill.

    I see not reason that this units do not have access to this ability. If the problem has to animation just change the name of the ability to something like "Tank officer" and add the upgrade without a commander for these units (although Centaur already has one)

    Emergency Warspeed

    Make this ability work different according to vehicles classification.
    Unit like UC, AEC get more ou of it, Cromwell and Comet less and Churchill (doctrinal) even less that will bring the ability inline with Ostheer "blitzkrieg".

    Cromwell/Comet Smoke Shell/White Phosphorus

    Simply more WP to Churchill Comet already its too good against ATG and infantry it does not need the WP shot.

    About Crushing:
    There are 2 more units with very high turn rate M10 and valentine that should be looked at.

  • #23
    3 years ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270

    I thought that someday all the "speed boost" would be fixed, but not in this way, because relic is creating trools and fustrations in allied players.
    And If the image is correct BRITS has less power with respect to the axis, that is a faction against two factions that has those superpowers:

    The axis has better 'speed boost' is more dangerous in urban maps where it has supremacy over Soviet tanks that do not have turret or paper tanks like the US forces.

    Relic should look in the past when thousands of post were opened on 'speed boost' and smoke axis. Open your eyes!

  • #24
    3 years ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited April 2017

    Absolutely LOVE the changes. Thank you Relic for at least trying these changes out. I feel if the cromwell has a cost increase in addition to quite a few nerfs, it should be ok to give the tank it's 0.75 accuracy back at vet 2 or 3 to give it some better late game scaling if the tank is kept alive. Love the changes to maxims. Maybe a cost decrease to 240 would make it fair since the reinforce is becoming more expensive and the crew on SU support weapons do next to no damage. I think the reinforce cost increase will properly punish maxim spamming but an original price decrease will suit the cheap units theme of SU.

  • #25
    3 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited April 2017

    Comet pop should remain. The rest seems fine. At least Panther will have a chance now.

    Maxim increase arc is not good. Right now yes it pins very fast, but the suppression nerf is too high, maybe decrease by just 25% with a 25% shorter arc. Also make it more suspect to mortar and indirect fire. Maxim is mobile assault MG so it should attack. Increase arc just make it another lazy defensive unit...

    Why Brit cant build emplacement in base?

    Warspeed needs to repair, means you waste 1 engineer squad. Dont think need nerf...

    WBP make Allies weaker.
    Now CGS make Allies even weaker?

    After WBP, i see automatch Axis players 80% for 1v1 and 2v2...back to the boring days.

  • #26
    3 years ago

    @Hesky85 said:

    Edit: But i think the high armor of the comet is another one of the big problems. My Panzer 4 had in in the last match a 1vs1 against the comet. 3/5 shots bounces of the comet frontal armor while every shot from the comet penetrates my P4! The comet killed my P4 and had 3/4 of its HP left.... that was very anoying. And i feel like that Faust shots often dont cause a engine damage... strange.

    I believe the comet is op but if you're using a p4 in a frontal engagement vs a comet, that's your problem. You shouldn't have your p4 anywhere near the comet, if you're a beginner player. At least try to flank the comet and even then, the Comet has decent rear armor and a p4 cannot guarantee a pen shot from the rear.

    Edit 2:
    The Wolverine is another tank that need to be adressed. Its too strong for the price of 90 fuel.

    It just needs to lose crush and its fine.

    Edit 3:
    Maybe the pershing needs a slightly adjustment. Overall its much better than the Tiger Tank.

    I'm gonna agree here.

  • #27
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    When comparing EWS, Blitzkrieg and Combat blitz one has to keep in mind that the abilities have different requirements.

    EWS requires a tech cost and some engineer time while the Axis require vet 1.

    In addition UKF vehicles are in general more mobile and benefit more from the ability.

  • #28
    3 years ago
    company14u2company14… Posts: 572
    edited April 2017

    This has to be an april fools joke? Or is this 2014-2015?

  • #29
    3 years ago

    Why are my comments are always perishing when i edit them to correct some mistakes. Is there any reason for it?

    Regarding speed and smoke: Its okay if EWS gets nerfed. Speed ist strong no question, can help to flank successfully, catch up a feeling tank or escape yourself. But if tehre is a single overall useable vehicle ability that should be nerfed it is insta smoke. ITs okay for PUMA nd AEC somehow, they are quite weak in health/armor. But for medium and heavy tanks, really? How many times I saved a tank with it or an opponent escaped certain destruction, I can't count it anymore. Hit the ground as counter has a lot of RNG and needs extra micro and timing. If insta smoke just would take a few seconds to activate, so that you would have to plan forward it would be balanced instead of beeing an I-Escape-Button.

  • #30
    3 years ago

    I'm not editing and saving my previous comment, it will be gone if I do it, so I post another one:

    Why not adress some more tank issues and not only the near op ones:

    1. Bind all light/medium tank call-ins to tech. For example M10, Bulldozer, StuG, Valentine, Land Lease Sherman, Ostwind (OKW). You can leave it as a Call-in similar to Koenigstiger but the requirement is the existence of T4 in most cases (T3 in some).

    2. Adjust population. Super heavy tanks population off all factions should raised slightly, because their population stands in no fair proportion to their game impact and the population you need to counter them effectively.

    3. Now lets look at some tanks left behind:

    • Ostwind: More accuracy and consistent damage output, then nerf moving accuracy accordingly to not create a retreating troop squad wiping machine (drives faster than retreating troops). Maybe a lookdown mode that grants supression to increase utility.

    • Churchill: Buff armor again now that its cost is adjusted for a long time. Maybe something like a munition dependend ability like tank schock (-> CoH1 Churchills: Infantry gets supressed) to further increase utility in combined play with own infantry attacks.

    • Sexton: A lackluster in compariosn to Priest (damage/AOE/range), maybe we can increase its utility and set it apart from Priest. Less scattermaxdistance to make it more accurate. Grant airbustshell-ability when going for amboss. Remove the creeping barrage which it shares with priest, give it a shorter ranged direct fire ability instead that is useful versus tanks too.

    • Tiger: Just a little more armor and penetration would do it already.

    • 105mm Bulldozer: Raise frontal armor to level of Easy Eight, lower scatter max distance, grant heavy crush and/or maybe an ability to overdrive in a straight line forward, crushing all obstacles by doing so (including tank traps) and maybe even schoking infantry it moves through. Last ability would be something unique, fit the idea of the bulldozer thing and would be a clear difference to the long range bunker buster shell of Brummbar.

    • further tanks which could take some care (no own suggestions here): KV-1, KV-2, Flammpanzer Hetzer, Isu-152

  • #31
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited April 2017

    It is easier to create balanced patch when Fixing less things than with Patch that try to Fix allot of thing at same time.

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