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  • #122
    3 years ago
    PastulioPastulio Posts: 2,060

    @Lazarus said:
    Nevermind the actual ability cost - I thought the point was to discourage Maxim spam? If I want to get the most out of this ability (not switching targets) I better get enough Maxims to match enemy infantry 1 to 1. This ability encourages Maxim spam while making use of single Maxims more difficult - which entirely defeats the purpose of the change.

    Any Maxim nerf will require MORE Maxims on field.

  • #123
    3 years ago

    Thank you for looking at the M10's.

    What about that Pershing? Or that entire commander in general? That's the definition of 1v1 (actually all mode) meta. Pershing needs a slight nerf in the AI department only/or a drop to 66% accuracy on the move imo. It wipes axis squads unbelievably quickly.

  • #124
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited April 2017

    V1.2 UPDATE
    Imo the changes for the Command Panther units should focus on making it more of support unit.
    In addition if the bonuses for the infantry are too high one could turn the ability into a timed ability instead of continues aura.

    Sustained fire :smile:
    Change the description from u "uses water cooling" to " takes advantage of the water cooling system"

  • #125
    3 years ago

    Good bye command panther and spotting scopes combo. No more maps hacks. :)
    I made a post about this exploit a couple months back. Thx you, modders!
    Still... The spotting scope may be to potent.

  • #126
    3 years ago
    Hesky85Hesky85 Posts: 52

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    Thank you for looking at the M10's.

    What about that Pershing? Or that entire commander in general? That's the definition of 1v1 (actually all mode) meta. Pershing needs a slight nerf in the AI department only/or a drop to 66% accuracy on the move imo. It wipes axis squads unbelievably quickly.

    You're right. But i think the M10 is slightly too cheap. 100 fuel would be fair because you can spam them without any tech cost. I've seen many games were 4 M10 swarm around the map.

  • #127
    3 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343
    edited April 2017

    @Katitof said:
    I..... don't see a point or use for the new vet1 ability of maxim.

    10 sec prep time? For real? Is it THAT powerful to have longer preparation time then KV-2 deployment?

    Given the wealth of changes the Maxim is receiving, and the fact that we have an impeding tournament, we wanted to be super-conservative with the ability. Just in case we miss the mark and we create a monster.

    The new ability practically operates as follows:

    • Squad enters arc of fire
    • Maxim starts bursting. The burst practically doesn't end until a model dies
    • Burst restarts and targets a new model
    • If at any point the burst ends prematurely (e.g., a model steps out of the arc), the ability made no difference

    If the bursts play out to their max duration, you get 3 bursts while the ability fires

    Personally, I think that the cost of the ability could go down (15 muni), and the duration of the ability could go up. However, that requires field testing to verify how the ability really plays out.

    The ability, currently, might be situationally useful in garrison-to-garrison combat. However, I wouldn't bet on that.

    @Lazarus said:
    Nevermind the actual ability cost - I thought the point was to discourage Maxim spam? If I want to get the most out of this ability (not switching targets) I better get enough Maxims to match enemy infantry 1 to 1. This ability encourages Maxim spam while making use of single Maxims more difficult - which entirely defeats the purpose of the change.

    Longer bursts also mean more AoE suppression. If you can predict the direction a blob is coming from, that could lead to fun times.

    Spamming a muni-costing ability is not an effective use of munitions.

    MG42 laser beams only increase damage; not suppression.

  • #128
    3 years ago
    Make_love_not_warMake_love… Posts: 166
    edited April 2017

    @Mr_Smith said:
    Given the wealth of changes the Maxim is receiving, and the fact that we have an impeding tournament, we wanted to be super-conservative with the ability. Just in case we miss the mark and we create a monster.

    I don't see how you could create a monster with this ability at all. 10 seconds initial reload, does that means in the moment you click that ability Maxim won't shoot for 10 seconds? In comparison to all the other MG abilities like increased penetration/damage which are just click and profit this one needs so much foresight plus recon (without good recon you can't have foresight in this case). Activating it in a fight means Maxim will eat all the grenades and will be swarmed frontally. You have to avtivate it 10 seconds before soldiers enter the firing range. Anything can happen in 10 seconds. There are so many reasons that the squad you are predicted to step into your firing arc will retreat, halt or change its direction and you just wasted your munition. Thats such a weird ability that I can't imagine in which situation it should be useful,

    There were so many interesting suggestions which wouldn't have lead into spam. I myself suggested to give the new ability an initial ability cooldown after repositioning so that the ability can't be used on the attack and is suited for defence. But this? Really trying but don't get behind it. Rather give it an ability than only works in theorycraft instead of just deleting its ability, because that wouldn't look as a straight nerf? Whats the point about it?

    Relic gave us enough useless abilities, units and commanders already. Please do not go this way. Every ability ingame should be useful.

  • #129
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Mr_Smith said:
    snip

    Alright, I see your point, however with abilities like incendiary rounds which adds raw 100% dps vs AI and allows for effective, light AT at 15 muni, the thing maxim got doesn't seem like monster in any way, even considering its 1 model per burst, its still far inferior to incendiary rounds, which require regular reload to prep.

  • #130
    3 years ago
    thekingsownthekingso… Posts: 447
    edited April 2017

    Soviet Field HQ needs to be looked at as well. Please change to only available in friendly territory.

    Partisans are currently in an OP state and are to cheap for what they are along with a host of abilities that are not needed. Please remove grenade or increase cost. They are not elite soldiers.

  • #131
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    With the increased arc of fire the maxim are getting, I could see this ability becoming circumstantially good.
    Though I do fear that it will simply lead to more maxim spam by building more of them to cover each other to offset the high preparation time, rather than a couple to support your army.
    I think extensive field testing is mandatory before such a change is brought into live play.
  • #132
    3 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229

    @comrade_daelin said:
    I thought OKW was supposed to be "the few the brave"? Such an expensive unit like Command Panther needs to be powerful enough to work on its own, otherwise it wouldn't be worth the cost.
    I don't think it needs a CP raise in that regard. The changes to the Coordinated Fire ability looks fine, though.

    agree, if you nerf CP aurora effects on teammates and prevent the call-in of the KT, then you must make it stronger in return to balance the vehicle, or else OKW will stop using the doctrine altogether; something I will hate to do b/c its such a good urban map commander.

  • #133
    3 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229
    edited April 2017

    @Vipper said:
    It is easier to create balanced patch when Fixing less things than with Patch that try to Fix allot of thing at same time.

    boo! So what your saying is just fix the things that you want huh?
    jk =p sorta...

  • #134
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    edited April 2017
    With limited resourses you need to pick and choose. Too big a scope and nothing gets the attention it needs
  • #135
    3 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229
    edited April 2017

    @Katitof said:

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:

    @Katitof said:
    I almost feel sorry for brits players though.
    I'm also extremely disappointed that this will be focused exclusively on nerfs instead of buffs.
    @Mr_Smith Smith con love when? :(

    @ScottishNomad1988 said:
    While one can be excited that the Maxim is getting changes, will this this in any way affect the Dshk 38? Or was it an oversight?

    That said, promising changes so far.

    There is no such thing as DSHK spam, so why would it be affected in any way?

    @Widerstreit said:
    Can you remove the deflection damage of all AT-grenades? So they become more like the Faust? This is really annoying.

    Faust have exactly same deflection damage as anyone else.

    Not saying there's a balance issue with them pre se. Just that things are now inconsistent. Maxim now seems more appealing than the originally more powerful and doctrinal Dshk 38 because of the increased arc. Regardless of less suppression, not having to micro the Maxim's arc as much makes the Dshk 38 less enjoyable to use in comparison.

    DSHK still supplements perfectly T1 builds and MG that isn't capable of suppressing effectively isn't appealing at all.

    @capiqua said:
    If comets and crowmwells have been nerf, I think 20pop is excessive, panthers can be spamables in team games. With so much nerf I think the costs are good, I do not see necessary increases price/pop

    Pls, add to the main thread:

    GCS Balance Preview Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=895625217

    with how annoying panther/comets spams are, mainly commet parades, both their pop caps should be similar to heavy tanks.

  • #136
    3 years ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270
    edited April 2017

    Maybe for future 3v3/4v4 tournaments need it takes some changues GCS:
    -Increase POP Super heavy.
    -Standardizing repairs in all factions.

  • #137
    3 years ago

    @thekingsown said:

    Partisans are currently in an OP state and are to cheap for what they are along with a host of abilities that are not needed. Please remove grenade or increase cost. They are not elite soldiers.

    I agree they are OP and are also meta for most Soviet players if I'm not mistaken. They technically should also be considered for this patch. There have been a host of threads on this unit. I understand they're kind of useless after the intial cheese but the problem is the initial cheese is too cheesy. Less cheese please.

  • #138
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    Aye, partisans should be included here.wouldnt mind seeing them returm to their old set up where they are a bit squishier until hitting friendly territory and tossing an upgrade on em. Let then keep their dps but require true ambush to be effective.
  • #139
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Aye, partisans should be included here.wouldnt mind seeing them returm to their old set up where they are a bit squishier until hitting friendly territory and tossing an upgrade on em. Let then keep their dps but require true ambush to be effective.

    They were useless and good for nothing back then.
    They literally had 2 con model durability as a whole squad.

    Their DPS currently isn't anything amazing either, they use con ppsh, which are only good because of con vet3.

  • #140
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    Well currently in live, partisans are just another cheese strat.

    Its not feasible on most maps to have time to burn down/mine/demo every single ambient building to counter them.
    So it gives SOV players free reign to simply click a building and insta wipe a damaged vehicle or retreating squad.

    Partisans are supposed to be ambush units, no-one should expect them to teleport in and burst things the second they spawn.

    Stormtroopers are the closest infilitration unit to be balanced, all they need is their grenade on cd and all would be good.

    So with that in mind, partisans (and all infiltration units) should spawn with rifles and upgrade their shrek/ppsh, with their nades on cd. Players should be encouraged to use their camo and mines to set up proper ambushes through means of foward thinking and preperation, instead of this current : pay x amount mp for a cheap wipe.

  • #141
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    @katitof well they cost 210mp with building spawn, molitovs and grenades as well as camo out of the gate and the ability to lay mines so...
    And their dps isnt actually that bad. Give them ~ambush camo and they are good to go.
    Additionally back then (when they were useless) you may recall i was at the forefront asking for a buff, they would lose to an mg crews squad. That and the soviet lineup demanded replacing units via commanders neither of those are the case anymore.
  • #142
    3 years ago
    Higher cool-down for partisans, maybe?
  • #143
    3 years ago

    @Widerstreit said:
    Higher cool-down for partisans, maybe?

    I think a cooldown to their anti tank grenade just like the Jager light Infantry's grenades might be all that's needed? Changing their role to an actual planned ambush unit where you 'pop' them out without the enemy knowing; laying mines -> cloaking -> luring -> ambushing.

  • #144
    3 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468

    No I'm sorry. I don't agree. The C. panther doesn't need nerfs. The soviet "MARKED FOR DEATH" ability is free range, and isnt limited to having a unit on the field, that's vulnerable to AT nades and mines. If it's going to be a choice between a (King tiger for crying out loud) and a Cpanther. It's fine as it is.

  • #145
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647
    edited April 2017

    If their any further changes for the GCS to add, I would hope it would be a solid calliope nerf, infiltration units having full blanket cd on spawn for abilities (until proper reworks can be done) and finally a heavy strike of the nerfbat to p-fusiliers. Then the only change I would ever dream of after that is a volks nerf, but I guess that would take alot of time and consideration to get right.

  • #146
    3 years ago

    @Farra13 said:
    If their any further changes for the GCS to add, I would hope it would be a solid calliope nerf, infiltration units having full blanket cd on spawn for abilities (until proper reworks can be done) and finally a heavy strike of the nerfbat to p-fusiliers. Then the only change I would ever dream of after that is a volks nerf, but I guess that would take alot of time and consideration to get right.

    fusiliers simply need their pop cap adjusted to 8. Volks can get a slight change by scrapping their survivability bonus at vet 1 to a smoke grenade ability.

  • #147
    3 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited April 2017

    P. fusiliers with a 90 mu upgrade and after CP 2 have about the same DPS with Penal far. They are better close.

    They also have the same HP.

  • #148
    3 years ago
    moremegamoremega REDWOOD CITY CA USAPosts: 229

    @eonfigure said:
    No I'm sorry. I don't agree. The C. panther doesn't need nerfs. The soviet "MARKED FOR DEATH" ability is free range, and isnt limited to having a unit on the field, that's vulnerable to AT nades and mines. If it's going to be a choice between a (King tiger for crying out loud) and a Cpanther. It's fine as it is.

    I nvr use KT nowadays JT pak 43 are so much more effective.

  • #149
    3 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    @raulmagana121707 unless you intend to fight infantry, or move, or are in an urban map, or want to chose ANY commander aside from breakthrough... But yea i suppose you will also find that using an AT gun more effective than using guards against a p4, thats actually how hard counters work believe it or not
  • #150
    3 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    fusiliers simply need their pop cap adjusted to 8. Volks can get a slight change by scrapping their survivability bonus at vet 1 to a smoke grenade ability.

    Logically I would have thought alongside the necessary popcap increase, p-fussies should lose their at grenade and have it replaced with smoke. First off there is little reason for them to have a snare as that overlaps with volks role, allowing players to spam them instead of using a mixed unit composition, second smoke is more fitting on the p-fussies as it fits their commander theme of breakthrough tactics, non-doc smoke should either go to the leig or sturms, no-one wants to see volks becoming the next rifles.

    Volks themselves first need their stg upgrade fixed, players should lose their long range firepower in exchange for better mid and considerably better close combat effectiveness. Then I would either hit them in the vet, most likely nerfing vet 2 accuracy from +30% to +15 and vet 4 from 15% to 10% (total of 25% reduced from 45%), that way they aren't nearly so potent and form a better synergy of a screening unit with Obers and Falls . The other controversial change in lieu of vet nerfs would be to make the incendiary nade only targetable on buildings, as currently this is what allows volks to go toe to toe with even elite infantry, the grenade plus their vet upgrades makes them for too potent for cost, and spamming said incrediary is easy as OKW floats muni hard.

  • #151
    3 years ago

    @Farra13 You're doing that thing again where you make Volks sound like the most OP thing on the planet! Against USF they're not, against UKF they're not, but against Soviets they're on the more cost efficient side of things. But that's a fault of Conscripts being deficient in 'utility'. Be careful to remember OKW utilise lots of volks/p-fussiliers for reasons. One of which is due to 'wasting' popcap on having shitkettens. Whereas their 'balanced' opponent in the USF has easy handheld AT. Volks have already been nerfed in losing the shreck and in regards to Vet I don't want OKW's to be watered down to the point of losing their unique asymmetric quality in having rewarding, superior vet. Otherwise just give them caches and be done with it.

    Nerf bats are scary. I caution the team to not do a Relic and nerf a unit/philosophy 'into the ground'. Bring back KT+CM-Panther mutualility :*

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