OST 3vs3- 4vs4 Stuka dive bomb

#1
2 years ago

Dont know how many times this been up without any reaction from the relic balanceteam done anything about it. It destroyes most of the team game when they spam this shit with the cas commander.

I know this is a link, but for the love of god revert back the stuped aoe this thing has, i dont know why it is still ignored. https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/241995/ost-2v2-stuka-dive-bomb-painfully-over-efficient-for-its-cost/p1

Comments

  • #2
    2 years ago

    Usa ambulance and UK Forward retreat point are particularly vulnerable to it. Often it's the game turning point...

  • #3
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    I would actually be tempted to turn it into a counter to UKF structures. Remove the kill infantry critical and give X bonus damage vs emplacements.

  • #4
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,724
    @vipper i thought that as well and as much as i fucking loathe that cancer it would be imba i think. Emplacments are too expensive/vulnerable for an uncounterable offmap. Imo of course
  • #5
    2 years ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343
    edited April 2017

    The problem with stuka dive bomb is that it's a singular hit. If it's not OP, it can stand to become useless. Thus, it's going to be difficult to balance.

    One of the most interesting ideas I've seen in a mod regarding demo charge is instead of insta-gibbing everyone, the charge should make the squad unresponsive for 2-5 seconds. Then, after the stun elapses the squad is forced to retreat.

    That way, you can't use afk demo-charge (or sneak stuka-dive bomb) to do the job for you; you have to have some forces nearby to secure a wipe. I'd imagine that the same principle could be applied to all wipes (e.g., dive bomb, sturmtiger, avre, demo charge).

    Given that dive bomb is damn cheap, one of the best ways to limit its effectiveness vs howitzers is add some inaccuracy. That way, you have to use dedicated anti-emplacement abilities for that (e.g, railway artillery).

  • #6
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @Mr_Smith Would it not be easier to keep it accurate and reliable, but reduce its damage below the threshold that destroys static howis? As no-one expects it to be effective against tanks, as it only requires enough to still maintain effectiveness against infantry without gibbing the ml-20.

    Then its the removal of the death crit and further tweaks to the aoe damage to bring it in line. I however would not contest a change to the massive stun and retreat, though would argue the radius would have to remain large as hitting a blob with a stuka that's not camping around a retreat point isn't easy.

  • #7
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,011

    @Mr_Smith said:
    The problem with stuka dive bomb is that it's a singular hit. If it's not OP, it can stand to become useless. Thus, it's going to be difficult to balance.

    One of the most interesting ideas I've seen in a mod regarding demo charge is instead of insta-gibbing everyone, the charge should make the squad unresponsive for 2-5 seconds. Then, after the stun elapses the squad is forced to retreat.

    That way, you can't use afk demo-charge (or sneak stuka-dive bomb) to do the job for you; you have to have some forces nearby to secure a wipe. I'd imagine that the same principle could be applied to all wipes (e.g., dive bomb, sturmtiger, avre, demo charge).

    Given that dive bomb is damn cheap, one of the best ways to limit its effectiveness vs howitzers is add some inaccuracy. That way, you have to use dedicated anti-emplacement abilities for that (e.g, railway artillery).

    In terms of flavor the idea of explosions not killing people grinds on me a little bit, but then this is also the game where point blank Mosin Nagant shots to the chest won't drop a person like a sack of potatoes. It's probably the most elegant solution to the one-shot-wipe problem - though might I suggest also applying a small amount, probably 20-40 damage as well just to knock off injured models.

  • #8
    2 years ago
    newshatterhandnewshatte… Posts: 278
    edited April 2017

    Could be fixed by giving a negative damage multiplier vs field artilllery and along with the audio warning make the sector on which the ability is called blink in the mini map (still no precise knowledgle like with flares but at least a bit more). Reduce damage vs infantery of instawipe explosives to just lethal (multiplier again?), give retreat points an aura reducing damage from specific instawipe explosives by 1.

  • #9
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,724
    @newshatterhand well atm the stuka nuka doesnt deal ANY damage to infantry, it deals a death crit within its radius meaning either you dead or you aint, no gradiant damage fall off. That could be a good place to start tbh..
  • #10
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    Stuka dive bomb does not 1 shot howitzer it kill the emplacement the gun survives.

    About UKF emplacement if stuka could 1 hit a single emplacement I really do not see the problem. It is a CP 12 ability.

  • #11
    2 years ago

    Add flares! I see no problem with it killing static arty in one hit, but it is a little to good at killing at guns, mgs, light vehicles, etc.

  • #12
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,724
    Well with the exception of the mortar pit emplacment s cost a whack of fuel so i still say it would be imba to remove them for only 160mu and a moment of los no matter where they are ESPECIALLY since there are not only commanders with SDB and recon but also 2 that allow the user to increase their muni gain as well. Idk im against 1 click counters that not only dont cost pop cap nor much planning/counter play. I mean what IS the counter play to that? Make sure your enemy doesnt get enough muni? End the game before 12 cp? Dont let them call in a recon plane?
  • #13
    2 years ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    Remove death Crit and have it drop flares, but with really, really high scatter. It won't instant kill everything and with the flares you get a middle ground where you can guess where its coming down, but not where its epicenter is.

  • #14
    2 years ago

    stuka area big but bomb lots kill in real worl. why not bigger kill in other thigs? m8 not big kill. kv-2 not big kill. stuka lots of big kill always, is not good balance. stuka hit anywhere, even sturm tiger needs to be close to kill, and not kill t34/85 but kill panzer.

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