[GCS v1.3] Maxim feedback

#1
3 months ago

(Copying from Miragefla's thread)

Hey everyone, I thought I would make this topic and poll to get a gauge on how the Maxim feels with the recent changes since it's a major changes to Soviet T2.

We did a lot of changes to try and get it to work as an ACTUAL machine gun rather than an a-move weapon that scaled off late game which could not hold/defend territory. We're hoping we can get it right so the weapon serves as a support weapon. And yes I know, the Maxim does not have great infantry to support it, but that's another discussion for another day.

To re-iterate what has changed, here are the notes courtesy of Mr. Smith and his organization:

Maxim

Arc of fire increased from 60 degrees to 90 degrees (other MGs have 90-120 degrees)
Setup time from 2 to 3 (other MGs have 3)
Burst duration from 2.25 to 4.5
Damage reduced from 4 to 3 (the DPS of the Maxim remains the same)
Tracking speed from 35 to 28
Reinforcement cost of initial crew from 15 to 20
Sprint removed from Vet1
Sustained fire ability added at Vet1

Suppression changes:
Suppression reduced from 0.00015909 to 0.00006
Suppression versus light cover from 0.5 to 0.75
Suppression versus heavy cover from 0.1 to 0.2
Suppression vs suppressed targets increased from 0.5 to 0.65
Nearby suppression modifier from 0.8 to 1.25
Nearby suppression radius increased from 10 to 13

Sustained fire:
Increases burst length duration by x2
Reduces reload time by 0.5 (multiplicative)
Reduces cooldown time by 0.5 (multiplicative)
Forces a reload at the beginning of the ability
Cancels (with no refund) if the Maxim moves
30 second duration
50 seconds cooldown
Costs 15 munitions

Is the Maxim a viable machine gun?

  • Yes
  • No
  • Requires Additional Adjustment (Please Explain)

Comments

  • #2
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,364
    edited April 20

    I have tested the maxim only abit vs AI but it seems to me that the arc when in garrison is to wide.

    Imo the unit is OP when used in garrison due to large crew and worse/later counter available to axis then to allies.

  • #3
    3 months ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 353

    The arc is exactly the same as the MG42 (honestly don't know if that's always been the case or not). I'd like to understand which MG is suppose to win when both 'meet' each other (it can/does happen). Be it in buildings or in the open. In the open the MG42 lost even though it suppressed the maxim - is that a bug? when an mg suppresses its contemporary but still loses? In buildings I assume the maxim will also win.

    Makes the MG42 at face value seem a little lackluster as its only advantage is that extra 30 degree arc in the open. Which isn't too grandiose as the 90 degree of 50cal and now maxim is more than enough imo on most of the maps.

  • #4
    3 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 5,968

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    The arc is exactly the same as the MG42 (honestly don't know if that's always been the case or not). I'd like to understand which MG is suppose to win when both 'meet' each other (it can/does happen). Be it in buildings or in the open. In the open the MG42 lost even though it suppressed the maxim - is that a bug? when an mg suppresses its contemporary but still loses? In buildings I assume the maxim will also win.

    Makes the MG42 at face value seem a little lackluster as its only advantage is that extra 30 degree arc in the open. Which isn't too grandiose as the 90 degree of 50cal and now maxim is more than enough imo on most of the maps.

    Its always been like that when garrisoned.

  • #5
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,747
    @vipper im not sure what can be done to make a maxim in a building less of a threat without gutting the ever loveing fuck out of it, all mgs in buildings are spooky as fuck (even the mg34 does alright in a building)

    Soviet are fairly advantaged in urban environments so the maxim leaning that way isnt a stretch, i think the important direction to go is more accessible counters vs the "remove all teeth" route.

    Smoke for the okw and something burny for the ost would go a long way i think
  • #6
    3 months ago

    6 points of suppressioan are not enought, even 4 vet Obers suppress better. If you want the Maxim to be a defensive MG, 8 points would be the best, plus make the gun teleport to another teammember once it's last gunner is dead while retreating.

  • #7
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,747
    Maxim isnt supposed to be a defensive MG thats why it has 6 men.
    @vipper was thinking about the building thing, what do you think a 5 man crew would be like? Give the gunner green cover (from the shield) to make up the difference out of garrison but make er a bit squishier in garrison (maybe allow vet 3 to up the crew?)
  • #8
    3 months ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,473
    edited April 21

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Maxim isnt supposed to be a defensive MG thats why it has 6 men.
    @vipper was thinking about the building thing, what do you think a 5 man crew would be like? Give the gunner green cover (from the shield) to make up the difference out of garrison but make er a bit squishier in garrison (maybe allow vet 3 to up the crew?)

    true but its made in to a closer to be traditional MG than before with this patch. so you could argue its meant to be a defensive weapon now.

  • #9
    3 months ago
    PastulioPastulio Posts: 2,044

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Maxim isnt supposed to be a defensive MG thats why it has 6 men.

    That's whole problem of Maxim. This "assault HMG" concept is nothing but balance problems from start.

    IMO if it was a defencive HMG like all other, it won't be a problem ( at least not bigger than other MHG spam).

  • #10
    3 months ago
    thekingsownthekingso… Posts: 411

    It hands down absolutely wrecks the mg 42 in hmg combat so yeah

  • #11
    3 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 3,641

    Well the plus side in the open it's still flankable. But really it's primary problem - that is taking forever to force it out of a building (especially WFA) with indirect, still applies. Unless there's a overhaul of indirect vs buildings in the future somewhere, the problem is still the 6 man crew. We've got Vickers, we've got .50s, we've got 42s and 34s. All somewhat difference in their role, all somewhat difference in their performance, none of which are spammable - and the common theme among them is 4 man crews. It's the only common thread.

  • #12
    2 months ago
    ofieldofield Posts: 627
    edited May 10

    I prefer the old maxim, i know maxim spam was a nuisance. But the maxim is supposed to be an attack-support weapon. fast setup, narrow arc. now it's just another crippled defensive weapon.

    Relic pls revert this change.

  • #13
    1 month ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 5,968
    edited May 28

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Maxim isnt supposed to be a defensive MG thats why it has 6 men.

    Well, with all the nerfs it got, neither its supposed to be offensive MG.

    It can't suppress effectively, it can't reposition easily, it can't shoot enough at its targets, because they'll just walk away, unsuppressed and unharmed.

    Its in exact same sorry state at the moment the MG42 was 2 years ago, pre buffs.

    While maxim spam meta was a bad thing, it was a direct result of conscripts being good only for feeding vet to opponents and T1 not offering viable choices, hell it still doesn't offer them with gutted penals and laughable "AT option" that penal PTRS is with longest setup time before the shot, yet range same as all the 360 no scope instashot AT weapons with much more powerful burst.

    Maxim is a victim of homogenization.
    Pretty much anything unique going for soviets ended up like that.

  • #14
    1 month ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 771
    edited May 29

    @Katitof The Maxim isn't bad, it is a hard-counter versus MG42 and MG34, because it will win against them with min 3 men left (I tested it in different situations) if they are not garrisoned. It will never stop shooting, even if it gets suppressed, German machineguns will stop their action. After the Patch i am happy if I can steal it as OKO, because of this difference.

    For me the Maxim is fine, the real problem is the Volkssturm (Volksgrenadiere) which will overrun everything because they are so spam-able and over-performing with upgrade and Vet. Fix that and give them 2 MP40 instead for 40mun (same as Sturmgrenadiere) and 1 free slot to pick up one weapon. Other critical point are Conscripts, they are too expensive for multiplayer. Reduce their price to 230mp in T3 and 220mp in T4, so also merge become more popular in late-game to compensate Soviet mp-bleed. Maybe make Molotow non-tech behind T1 and T2.

    That would make Maxim better, passive.

  • #15
    1 month ago
    TheLeveler83TheLevele… Posts: 523
    edited May 29

    late war germany did not have many recources to spare. obers already have lmg upgrades pfussies as wel sturms already have 4 stgs. why dont we remove any weapon upgrade from volks? this would make them a screening unit to take shots. the excelent vet they gain is less impactfull like this and maybe needs a slight tweak. and other units such as ober sturm maybe the flacktrack will find some more use. atm volks are al you need until kt or cmmd panther.

  • #16
    1 month ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,747
    Id be interested in a more "this or that" approach with volks. Maybe knock em down to 4 men and give them an option for either 5 men with rifles or 4 man with the STG package. Maybe a side grade elsewhere that can make fausts cheaper or nades cheaper. Kinda a flare of "late war germany needed to make concessions and divert resourses" feel, but also an easier way (imo) to balance
  • #17
    1 month ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 615

    Yeh i've got to say I agree with knocking volks down to four men. Let them start with a simple model 24 grenade like the p-fussies, lock the faust and stg's behind an 5th man nco upgrade for say 40mp and maybe kick the reinforce from 25 to 27 with that upgrade, that way they will actually perform closer to cost with the right investment. A four man squad without a faust could also give a decent platform for the shrek, giving sturms some breathing room and maybe the possibility of an upgrade so they can handle smoke and incendiary nades in lieu of the sweeper.

    As for the maxim, it definitely needs a facelift like the mg-42 had. At the very least its supression rate needs be tweaked, it just cannot supress efficiently, let alone pin.

  • #18
    1 month ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,364

    Although this thread is about maxim there 2 issues VGs:
    1) The STG upgrade. The STG upgrade does not follow weapon profiles nor does it relative positioning. The weapon leaves far DPS about the same level but greatly increasing mid and close performance making the units too good at all ranges (similar issue with Penals SVT).

    If VG get an upgrade (or no upgrade) and start performing good only at specific range they will in better spot.

    2) Incendiary grenade. This sort of weapon should not be available to mainline infantry. It nullifies garrison and denies cover to enemy unit making to easy to defend or dislodge enemy from cover.

    If VG have their grenade replaced normal grenade they will be in much better spot. But then other measures should be taken so that they can deal with garrison.

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