[ALL] Team Game Dominant Meta Discussion

2

Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    WunderKatzeWunderKat… Posts: 730
    edited May 2017
    Does anyone else see the free OKW AA as a problem? I'm tired of being deprived of my P47S rocket strafes because all three or four OKW players decided to build their HQs together on the important side of the map.

    They have a AA vehicle and they should be forced to buy it if they want AA just like any other faction.

    And on that note it would be nice if the P47s strafes were normalized so that they hit more consistently but do marginally less damage.

    I'm just so happy people are finally talking about 4v4 balance :)

    @Mr_smith If you are going to change the priest can you also look at its creeping barrage ability? Its quite useless.
  • #33
    2 years ago
    MarcusMarcus Posts: 5
    Realy? Realy? This is not balance is a joke! Who is this Miss Smith? Why balance propose do not came from guys like Hans, Stormless, Imperial Dane, Luvnest, DevM, VonIvan,etc who is this guy?! Elefant, JahT, eazy destroy by spam of medium armor! Stuka Close Air Support nerf again? Realy? Wat? The allies can do micro they can move tanks out of range of Stuka? They hear about AA? Realy? You put fuel on pak,arty? Realy? Oooo great even more ussless doctrine! Joint Operation Doc. Fortifaction Doc. German Mec. Doc. I can continue....... Stug realy ? A paper tank destroyer? I never use me or my clan! So i start with Allies? No, its enough, if this joke is put in game im done with this game me and my clan we are done! GG Relic ! Good luck!
  • #34
    2 years ago
    captainjordycaptainjo… Posts: 498

    @Marcus said:
    Realy? Realy? This is not balance is a joke! Who is this Miss Smith? Why balance propose do not came from guys like Hans, Stormless, Imperial Dane, Luvnest, DevM, VonIvan,etc who is this guy?! Elefant, JahT, eazy destroy by spam of medium armor! Stuka Close Air Support nerf again? Realy? Wat? The allies can do micro they can move tanks out of range of Stuka? They hear about AA? Realy? You put fuel on pak,arty? Realy? Oooo great even more ussless doctrine! Joint Operation Doc. Fortifaction Doc. German Mec. Doc. I can continue....... Stug realy ? A paper tank destroyer? I never use me or my clan! So i start with Allies? No, its enough, if this joke is put in game im done with this game me and my clan we are done! GG Relic ! Good luck!

    Mr. Smith balances the game. Hans, Stormless, Imperial Dane, Luvnest, DevM, VonIvan,etc do not.......

  • #35
    2 years ago
    QuesocitoQuesocito Posts: 128
    edited May 2017

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Yea, im not a huge fan of some of these changes, i would rather resourse inflation get a looksy and repair speeds nerfed so that infantry combat is more dominant and bad armour play actually hurts..

    +1

    adjust resource inflation...it will solve a huge number of problems that arise with the imbalance due to certain factions suddenly acquiring fuel and/or munitions to spend on supposedly expensive units/abilities. there's nothing wrong in forcing 3v3 and 4v4's to be far more infantry heavy.. just like 1v1 and 2v2 are..

    i cant for the life of me understand how this dive bomb hasnt been adjusted previously.. just like how volks blob was allowed to exist for so long..

    why not for now ignore not-so-big issues like the elefant(its supposed to be THE TD for crying out loud), and fix unused units like the greyhound, pak43, flame "hetzer" etc. for example the elefant is next to useless except as a semi static TD(unlike so many other multi purpose units for similar costs), why not just leave it as a 2 shot tank killer, and fix the stuff nobody touches FIRST?

    I play team games (2v2 and up, so if any of that trash like the greyhound is used in 1v1, thats ONLY where it is used)

  • #36
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    Bump
  • #37
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    edited June 2017

    @WunderKatze ha detto:
    Does anyone else see the free OKW AA as a problem? I'm tired of being deprived of my P47S rocket strafes because all three or four OKW players decided to build their HQs together on the important side of the map.

    They have a AA vehicle and they should be forced to buy it if they want AA just like any other faction.

    And on that note it would be nice if the P47s strafes were normalized so that they hit more consistently but do marginally less damage.

    I'm just so happy people are finally talking about 4v4 balance :)

    @Mr_smith If you are going to change the priest can you also look at its creeping barrage ability? Its quite useless.

    Does anyone else see the OKW losing unlocked tiers with hq and lack of caches as a problem ?
    Elite but resource starved my ass.
    Either make them elite, or balance them to other factions and make okw less fuel starved.
    Bullshit lmao XD

  • #38
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    > @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    > @WunderKatze ha detto:
    > Does anyone else see the free OKW AA as a problem? I'm tired of being deprived of my P47S rocket strafes because all three or four OKW players decided to build their HQs together on the important side of the map.
    >
    > They have a AA vehicle and they should be forced to buy it if they want AA just like any other faction.
    >
    > And on that note it would be nice if the P47s strafes were normalized so that they hit more consistently but do marginally less damage.
    >
    > I'm just so happy people are finally talking about 4v4 balance :)
    >
    > @Mr_smith If you are going to change the priest can you also look at its creeping barrage ability? Its quite useless.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Does anyone else see the OKW losing unlocked tiers with hq and lack of caches as a problem ?
    > Elite but resource starved my ass.
    > Either make them elite, or balance them to other factions and make okw less fuel starved.
    > Bullshit lmao XD

    The only ones who dont lose their tech from losing their buildings are the usf and the brits, to a lesser extent ost (because techs are sort of broken up by battle phase which you cant lose. However losing buildings still hurts)
    That makes 2 that can repair for free, 2 that cant and 1 thats sort of halfway.
  • #39
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    Does anyone else see the OKW losing unlocked tiers with hq and lack of caches as a problem ?

    Nope just you. Nobody else gets a free AA/area lockdown base with their final tier, on top of the other great bonuses that come with OKW teching. Lack of caches? Really? They are the only faction in the game with access to a true heavy tank stock, and you're still here wondering why they don't get caches? They can also salvage, which no one else can do without doctrine.

  • #41
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    > @SkysTheLimit ha detto:
    > @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    > Does anyone else see the OKW losing unlocked tiers with hq and lack of caches as a problem ?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Nope just you. Nobody else gets a free AA/area lockdown base with their final tier, on top of the other great bonuses that come with OKW teching. Lack of caches? Really? They are the only faction in the game with access to a true heavy tank stock, and you're still here wondering why they don't get caches? They can also salvage, which no one else can do without doctrine.

    > @Farra13 ha detto:
    > @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    >
    > Elite but resource starved my ass.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Exactly, anything above 1v1 and OKW can enjoy both the vet 5 mechanic and caches so long as they have at least a single OST player, that's good of you to point it out. Kinda skews the faction design, not too mention balance, as OKW shouldn't enjoy the best of both worlds while also having scavenge (needs an obvious rework) on top.
    >
    > Either make them elite, or balance them to other factions and make okw less fuel starved.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > They are elite... have you not ever checked out some of the vet rewards for their units. Combat blitz, self-healing mainlines, passive sprint for elite troops, Luchs supression, camo tanks, JP4 death crit from stealth.
    >
    > > @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    >
    > > Does anyone else see the OKW losing unlocked tiers with hq and lack of caches as a problem ?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Simple risk/reward mechanic, being able to deploy such durable foward repair/healing/emplacement that's included within the cost of teching is a huge advantage. If your tech buildings are destroyed, that's down to you being outplayed, and you are punished accordingly.

    Yep so as OKW has to deal with fragile tiers and lack of caches, deal with AA
    Case closed.
  • #42
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:

    Yep so as OKW has to deal with fragile tiers and lack of caches, deal with AA

    Case closed.

    Hardly.

    First off, fragile tiers? I must be mistaken; it has been a long while since I've played OKW myself, but it takes how much coordinated fire to take down a truck? Well over a dozen shots from a tank? Multiple, consistent barrages from arty? Immunity to small arms? I wouldn't call that fragile.

    They are only vunerable, if you overextend, and that's on you as a player. The reward for such a risk is a foward operating base, with the choice for medics and frp, a repair station or even a powerful foward emplacement.Its a damn good trade off.

    As for the lack of caches, OKW has both vet 5 and scavenge to compensate. Yes scavenge needs reworing as its pretty crap.... but last I checked vet 5 on alot of units like volks or p-fussies are more than worth such an exchange in their current iterations.

    The AA on the schwerer is simply overkill, as with the current direction the mod-team seem to be going with aircraft and respectively anti-aircraft, is that players must invest in units like the Ostwind or flaktrak as an active counter to abilites like the p-47 runs or the typhoons. No-one should expect the pintles to clear the skies as they currently do, nor the fact that OKW has free AA around their base and on foward deployment for no additional cost or pop requirements... That kind of advantage, especially when one considers just how many of the commanders available between the three allied factions rely on different forms of air support, means that those commanders are quite frankly unusable against OKW, something that both denies strategic options for the allies and gives OKW a significant advantage without any downsides.

    So yeh... I can't really say its case closed.

  • #43
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,821
    Very well said @farra13
  • #44
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    Now pintle are good against air abilities ahahah
    Next ? Flak emplacement OP ?
  • #45
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @SAY_MY_NAME

    One pintle is negligible, three however and they might score a lucky kill. 3v3 or 4v4 and there might be a dozen pintles, suddenly any strafing abilites are buzzed out the sky the minute they enter the batllefield. Same goes for the allied versions e.g DSHKa or 50.cals pintles. Some things should be standardised across factions, AA mechanics is one of them.

    Flak emplacements at base are ridiculous, I mean soft at, anti air and supression? Non-one else has these benefits, the anti air being mainly problematic, as like pintles, once there are a fair few eg. a 4v4 with all OKW, suddenly planes are being shredded just by the basic base defences.

  • #46
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    Balance never went towards 4vs4 aka shitshow mode.
    It will just make mg42 pintle useless..
  • #47
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @SAY_MY_NAME said:
    Balance never went towards 4vs4 aka shitshow mode.
    It will just make mg42 pintle useless..

    Or, and don't hold your breath on this, they could just up a tanks consistent AI dps? Having them shoot at aircraft is pointless, yes its immersive, but it only creates issues like we find in teamgames. A pintle is pointless as an AA source in a 1v1, but suddenly when 12 rake the skies in a 4v4, aircraft fall faster than if someone set of an emp blast above washington.

    And what do you mean, make the mg42 useless? I was talking about everything from the IS-2 Dshka, to the sherman 50.cal. Its not an balance issue that pertains to a single side, the flak emplacements in the OKW headquarters however, that does.

  • #48
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588

    If sturmtiger get nerfed like this, why should we still manually reload that crap, while UKF can have its auto-turbo-recharge AVRE ???

  • #49
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588
    edited June 2017

    Btw, regarding OKW FlakHQ.. currently you build the truck for:
    100 MP and 15 FU
    convert it to flakHQ for:
    200 MP and 125 FU (forgive me if these are not the exact numbers, but something like this)

    and eventually you get a complete new tier level, a flak cannon and every unit unlock.

    How about this:

    Truck: 100 MP and 15 FU
    Conversion: 150 MP and 80 FU
    At this point you could have everything on that tier level except the FlakHQ and the Panther
    Flak upgrade could be 80 MP and 50 FU and it could unlock the Panther as well.

    (optionally the OKW panthers price could be decreased to 180FU from 200)

  • #50
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,268
    edited June 2017

    @RiCE said:
    If sturmtiger get nerfed like this, why should we still manually reload that crap, while UKF can have its auto-turbo-recharge AVRE ???

    Maybe the AVRE needs a change as well, but it can't currently 1-shot mediums from the FOW. It also can't seriously cripple a heavy tank and potentially stun-crit it at the same time.

  • #51
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257
    > @RiCE ha detto:
    > Btw, regarding OKW FlakHQ.. currently you build the truck for:
    > 100 MP and 15 FU
    > convert it to flakHQ for:
    > 200 MP and 125 FU (forgive me if these are not the exact numbers, but something like this)
    >
    > and eventually you get a complete new tier level, a flak cannon and every unit unlock.
    >
    > How about this:
    >
    > Truck: 100 MP and 15 FU
    > Conversion: 150 MP and 80 FU
    > At this point you could have everything on that tier level except the FlakHQ and the Panther
    > Flak upgrade could be 80 MP and 50 FU and it could unlock the Panther as well.
    >
    > (optionally the OKW panthers price could be decreased to 180FU from 200)

    Or apply those changes and lock pnz4 and panther to last tier like EFA mod from miraflegia does.
  • #52
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @RiCE said:
    If sturmtiger get nerfed like this, why should we still manually reload that crap, while UKF can have its auto-turbo-recharge AVRE ???

    Maybe the AVRE needs a change as well, but it can't currently 1-shot mediums from the FOW. It also can't seriously cripple a heavy tank and potentially stun-crit it at the same time.

    Against heavies maybe not, but it does have a 440dmg with 150pen, and it is quite a kick... especially against mediums. I think having auto reload is a huge advantage. Whenever i use AVRE, i pull back automatically after each shot, but as soon as i get back, i can almost fire again. Its reload speed is too fast imo.

    On the other hand ST's ability to fire through obstacles is an unreliable and should be fixed. Even if it can shot through buildings, the shell itself can physically collide with objects and blast where it shouldn't. I have tried to fire through tall buildings or woods, and it always stuck. So either the manual-reload must go, or the ignore-obstacles ability should be fixed because right now i cannot tell what can be pierced and what cannot.

  • #53
    2 years ago

    @WunderKatze said:
    Does anyone else see the free OKW AA as a problem? I'm tired of being deprived of my P47S rocket strafes because all three or four OKW players decided to build their HQs together on the important side of the map.

    They have a AA vehicle and they should be forced to buy it if they want AA just like any other faction.

    And on that note it would be nice if the P47s strafes were normalized so that they hit more consistently but do marginally less damage.

    I'm just so happy people are finally talking about 4v4 balance :)

    @Mr_smith If you are going to change the priest can you also look at its creeping barrage ability? Its quite useless.

    So much this. A tech building shouldn't have a AA gun attached to it. There's discussion going around about forward retreat points already and the fact that OKW has a tech building that automatically shuts down any sort of flanking is ridiculous. Setting up a forward retreat point should have some downsides, for Americans it's a 3 model major squad with an incredibly easy to kill ambulance, and for British it's having to spend fuel or 400mp for static emplacements while having no access to mobile ISG/mortar.

    The flak gun on OKW t4 needs to be removed. It's a brain-dead static defence that provides so much utility for no cost at all, and provides OKW with an unflankable position that can also destroy any light vehicles.

  • #54
    2 years ago
    KurfürstKurfürst Posts: 289
    edited July 2017

    @Zarmageddon said:
    The flak gun on OKW t4 needs to be removed. It's a brain-dead static defence that provides so much utility for no cost at all, and provides OKW with an unflankable position that can also destroy any light vehicles.

    Right, because it totally upsets balance while the 280 manpower / 30 fuel Bofors without ANY of the risks of FlakHQ the Brits can spam all day within 5 minutes does not.

    Did it occur to you, that while OKW can shut down a limited area a map, it can only do so by risking a 300MP/140 fuel arty magnet building and its ability to produce ANY kind of meaningful armor?

    Loosing the major does not prevent you from building tanks, and neither does loosing a forward retreat point.

  • #55
    2 years ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434

    @Kurfürst said:

    @Zarmageddon said:
    The flak gun on OKW t4 needs to be removed. It's a brain-dead static defence that provides so much utility for no cost at all, and provides OKW with an unflankable position that can also destroy any light vehicles.

    Did it occur to you, that while OKW can shut down a limited area a map, it can only do so by risking a 300MP/140 fuel arty magnet building and its ability to produce ANY kind of meaningful armor?

    Loosing the major does not prevent you from building tanks, and neither does loosing a forward retreat point.

    Soooo many people neglect this hard fact. Thank you for reminding people.

  • #56
    2 years ago
    KurfürstKurfürst Posts: 289

    Or how about this. The OKW FlakHQ comes without a Flakgun, but it is 30 fuel cheaper to build.

    For a 80 manpower 30 fuel upgrade though, you can get back the Flakgun as an upgrade. AND absolutely non cheesy ability to ignore 75% of the all incoming damage (free of charge of course), which we shall call Deckuuuung! and some kind of ability that works something kinda like heavy artillery saturation fire wiping out all weapon teams and the occasional infantry bystanders, for, well, dunno, 30 munitions.

    I am also thinking of another ability, its called tungsten rounds, its munition free but requires the player to place the building once and then forget about it. This ability is only serves as a soft counter against tanks beneath the IS2 and the Comet.

    Because its just not fair and balanced not to have a totally self sufficient empl... tech building that can counter its all targets.

    When and if the FlakHQ is destroyed, experienced Wehrmacht staff officers willsimply move tanks assembly lines to the main building, and you can still produce tanks in order to... to normalize teching along all factions. Because its again not fair that in practice only OKW can ever loose its teching.

  • #57
    2 years ago
    SAY_MY_NAMESAY_MY_NA… Posts: 257

    @Kurfürst ha detto:

    @Zarmageddon said:
    The flak gun on OKW t4 needs to be removed. It's a brain-dead static defence that provides so much utility for no cost at all, and provides OKW with an unflankable position that can also destroy any light vehicles.

    Right, because it totally upsets balance while the 280 manpower / 30 fuel Bofors without ANY of the risks of FlakHQ the Brits can spam all day within 5 minutes does not.

    Did it occur to you, that while OKW can shut down a limited area a map, it can only do so by risking a 300MP/140 fuel arty magnet building and its ability to produce ANY kind of meaningful armor?

    Loosing the major does not prevent you from building tanks, and neither does loosing a forward retreat point.

    Don't forget that bofor has higher rof, can change targets, can work as an arty (lmao), can brace and has higher pen.

  • #58
    2 years ago
    KurfürstKurfürst Posts: 289

    I would say a fair price for an equivalent fuel cost as the OST 251, which is totally useless and has to run from even infantry.

  • #59
    2 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468

    Eh, sounds like devout allied players want a zero challenge game with those changes.

    "Nerf all your units to zilch, that way you have no chance, and i can run you over even faster" :lol:

    The fact that super end game units are what players are resorting to (hence meta) shows you how badly in shape the core units of the axis army are compared to allies. Of course they are gonna go for those units, the other units arent effective enough against churchhills, sniping jacksons, two-punch knockout fireflies.

    Move the churchhills up front, let em soak up the damage, have the fireflies rack up the damage from behind, (because they have that range)
    No armored force can stop that light of the JAD, or elephant. Not even at guns do much to churchhills. And actually...im not complaining...it's very effective, been in a couple of games like that. So im guilty of pulling it off, Im not proud of it, but it works lol.

  • #60
    2 years ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 647

    @eonfigure said:

    The fact that super end game units are what players are resorting to (hence meta) shows you how badly in shape the core units of the axis army are compared to allies.

    More to the point of how badly the WFA armies are built, so not simply the axis factions.... Both OST and SOV are much better designed, as they don't use over the top gimmicks to compensate for certain weaknesses. Think how brace performs as a mechanic to cover the fact emplacements are immobile, or the volks incendiary nade performance and throwing time, as the faction lacks any well-designed anti-garrison tools short of doctrinal flamers.

    If anything though, its the allied factions that have shown recently how poorly their stock rosters perform, with the WBP and GCS patches having gone through and removed a significant amount of cheese (penal-guard blob, 1919 blob, us turbo mortar, LM spam, comet spam). Its become glaringly obvious that these units were overperforming so hard, that they basically overshadowed alot of problems in their core unit lineups.

    SOV infantry lacking weapon upgrades puts them at the mercy of the 5min volks stg upgrade, a powerspike that basically shuts down all bu the largest penal spam builds. Lack of viable at sources in the lieut tier of usf (or non-doc mines), means that it has to be captain for the 57mm, or the luchs will run right over them. The poor quaility of the USF indirect, with the exception of the scott. The brits lack of effective anti-sniper measures short of a fast cromwell. Brits awfully designed mortar pit being op on some maps, and useless on others.

    Allied tds have been overbuffed, that I can't disagree with. To be honest I do think the entire balance between tanks and at needs reworking, with target sizes, penetration and accuracy all needing an overhaul. But that doesn't excuse all the other issues, underperforming and useless units floating about currently. At least all of what's in the OST and OKW rosters works to an effective degree at its job, exceptions being the OST panther, Ostwind and p4's being noticebly UP (but not unusable) for such a high cost.

  • #61
    2 years ago
    RiCERiCE Posts: 1,588

    I think mortar spam is still a thing. It's not a rare sight to see 2 or 3 mortar per player in a team game. This is a meta which should be looked at.

    I don't know the exact numbers, but it feels like mortar auto-fire is accurate and rewarding enough to spam these units. You just put them in range, and your enemy bleeds.

    • I think mortar auto-fire mode should have much worse rate of fire and scatter. People should use barrage mode over auto-fire since at least it require some attention from the player.
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