(all) soviet penals, mortar, maxims, m17, cromwell

3 days ago
TherranTherran Posts: 3
edited May 19 in Balance Feedback

Reposting to be more in line with the required "guidelines."

Over the past two years, the patches aimed at "balancing" the game have deprived Allied players of fun and interesting units. Whereas there is a constant push to make sure Allied units do not have even a scintilla of over-performance, German units exude it. This last patch continued that downward trend. Here are several examples:

M17, which is meant to counter infantry, was nerfed because infantry had trouble countering it.

The Russian 120mm mortar, which is significantly more expensive than the standard mortar and a specialized call-in unit meant to outclass the standard mortar, was nerfed because the standard mortar didn't counter it. It was also nerfed because it had the same range as a pack-howitzer, even though it's the Soviet version of the pack-howitzer and is needed for balance.

Penal Battalions were nerfed because they won engagements against German infantry even though their purpose is to counter infantry. Even when they were good, they were outclassed by late game German infantry and fall off. Now, Assault Pioneers, an insanely overpowered super unit that will instantly kill enemy squads in close quarters and suffers no movement penalties in harsh terrain, have free run of the map and can absolutely crush any squad Russians produce.

The Maxim MG was nerfed because people "were spamming it," even though Germans spam MG's EVERY GAME and the German MG's have twice the range, twice the firing arc, three times the firing speed, twice the suppression, and a veteran ability that lets them kill tanks, all for the same price.

Cromwells, which have less armor and inferior firepower to the German Pazner IV, while costing the same price, had an advantage in mobility. Now, they are too slow to flank and can't accelerate faster going forward than a King Tiger IN REVERSE. The impetus for this change is that Cromwells were used to run over infantry. Yet Germans have numerous methods of countering this, including Panzerfausts and AT rockets, which most often cripple tanks. Not to mention the Axis have the Blitz ability, which doubles the movement speed of their tanks and is a far worse offender in terms of crushing infantry than Cromwells.

In general, it feels as though Allied armies are outclassed by the Germans at all points through the game. For example, Russian T4 units (rockets and a T34) are the same units the Germans get in T2 (rockets) and T3 (Panzer IV). German abilities, across the board, are hands down better than Allied. Perfect example, no offensive ability can be cast in an enemy base except (1) the German mortar barrage and (2) the German Stuka nuke that gives no warning and no flares.

The whole basis behind this game is that Allies have an advantage in the early game and Axis auto-win in the late game. Now, both sides are relatively equal at the start, but by the time mid-game hits, the Axis absolutely dominate. Allied players have to work twice as hard to win any game and it's not right.

These changes are in addition to other past mistakes such as nerfing the Soviet Industry Commander, by replacing the Fuel for Munitions perk with an air drop that gets shot down 9 times out of 10 because the Germans get free AA in their base and buildings and the plane FLIES OVER THE GERMAN BASE. Which, by the way, is the same reason almost all the Allied air based abilities don't work, because German AA covers half the map and they get it for free. Meanwhile Germans get a 5 minute long supply drop off one cast and can stand there collecting resources with absolutely zero threat of getting shot down.


  • #2
    3 days ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 3,579
    Basic factual corrections:
    The 120mm was not nerfed because mortars couldnt counter it. It was nerfed because it was brutally wiping infantry with no counterplay available.

    Penals were nerfed because they were good at all ranges and using cover did not protect you. Not because they beat infantry.

    Sturmpioneers are not super OP. They are not even remotely OP. Conscripts beat them if you stop once you see them and they dont ambush you. They have terrible recieved accuracy. All you have to do is not be at less than 15 range when the fight starts and youll beat them.

    All MGs have identical range barring the vet 1 Vickers which has longer range. The vet 1 can not kill even light tanks unless you reverse them at the MG with hold fire on at 0 range and AFK for 30 seconds. Simply move out of the way.

    Cromwells cost less than PIVs. They are cheaper to tech to as well. They are not slower than KTs. This is a basic objective fact. For your education, the game does not distinguish between reversing and moving forward.

    The stuka can not be fired in base sectors. This was patched out by the balance team. All mortars can barrage bases.

    These are only the basic factual errors that are flat out demonstrably untrue that I can find on my phone.

    If you have any issue with the basic objective indisputable facts I've stated - please show a recent automatch replay in which something to the contrary has happened - i.e. a Panzer IV has costed less than 120 fuel or a stuka has been called in to base sectors.
  • #3
    3 days ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,636
    edited May 19

    @Lazarus said:
    Sturmpioneers are not super OP....They have terrible received accuracy.

    while i agree they are not super OP, slight correction here, they have a rec acc of .87, same as falls, which is smaller than cons (1.087) rifles (.97) and grens (.91) and are beat out by tommies...who have the same rec acc as pgrens, rangers, JLI and then is stormtroopers (.75 this shocked me actually) and finally obers at .7
    all others are 1 including every soviet squad except cons who are even bigger (partisans are more difficult to hit, which might be part of their problem...)

    ***snipers are 1.15

  • #4
    3 days ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 3,579
    @thedarkarmadillo while thats true - the caveat there is that all of those squads with worse rec acc are long ranged squads (cons being the exception because they dont know what the hell they are but then theres also more models so it becomes this whole... thing). The only other mid/short squad that has the same durability for cost as Sturms is Assault Engies, who are also terrible if you dont ambush with them.

    Ill amend that statement as Sturms have terrible durability for a mid ranged squad.
  • #5
    3 days ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 4,636
    @lazarus, true. It was more of a rant on the fact that tommies are only larger than exactly 2 units, i mean they ARE british but....
  • #6
    2 days ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 748
    edited May 20

    OK, I agree that it is very difficult as Allii now.

    But as Soviet it is, because Conscripts are still too expensive (240 down to 220) and Molotov isn't non-tec and come too late. Also Ost MG42 should be changed with OKW MG34 to make early game more mobile. Also Püppchen is kind of OP, because it's stealth is too amazing.

    The performance of most abilities and units are OK now, after years. But now they have to balance the game that way, that you don't need a commander to have a chance to win OR make all commanders that way, that all of them have a more wide character !OR! give the player the ability to switch between commanders in-game e.g. investing 6CP points to move from commander to commander.

  • #7
    2 days ago
    mlkmlk Posts: 1

    Totally agree with therran, the game has never been as unbalanced as today ( 4v4 3v3 ). it is obvious.Okw dominates the game

  • #8
    2 days ago
    PastulioPastulio Posts: 2,040

    I know it, man.

  • #9
    2 days ago
    Farra13Farra13 Posts: 552

    Simply put, nerfbatting alot of the cheesey crutch units like Comets, Penals and Light vehicles has exposed some big weaknesses in the allied lineups. Understandably they will need some changes, but teamgames aren't the main concern in balance, where resource inflation and faction design might be causing problems in those game sizes, 1v1 and 2v2 are as balanced as they have been since the "golden era" where Relic actually nailed the SOV and OST lineup before the collossal fuckup that was the WFA releases came along.

    Though half of what you have stated is untrue, cromwells having less firepower than a p4? Sturms OP? Axis mgs killing light vehicles instantly?

    My advice would be to wait, the community team has taken the teamgame meta balance into account and are looking at their options. And anyway, not too sound snide, but welcome to what the Axis players have been putting up with for the last year since the june patch, now do you understand why so many were shouting to high heavens about the imbalance of the game?

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