DBP Balance Feedback

#1
1 year ago
Kyle_REKyle_RE Posts: 473 admin

Please post all related feedback relevant to the December Balance Preview here. Any posts in this thread that are not on topic or directly relevant to the changes, goals and focus outlined in the December Balance Preview changelog, will be removed or deleted.

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Comments

  • #2
    1 year ago
    A_EA_E Posts: 147
    edited October 2017

    Such good news that this is even happening was really pleasantly surprised by it. I find it easier to express myself through the art of video so here are my in depth thoughts for those that care to lose 20 minutes of their lives.

    In general I feel everthing is moving in the right direction however somethings are possibly over nerfed i.e. nerfed in more than three ways at a time. However play-testing is key!

    Please play test this as much as possible. I know I'll be doing that over the coming weeks, and will be keen to cast games in the WBP so if you have get any great replays give me a shout.

  • #4
    1 year ago

    Ok guys, first of all, and I think everyone here has the same in mind: Thank you so much for still keeping on working on CoH2 and not letting it die!

    I played Fall Balance Preview and I liked it a lot. I can understand why it was passed due to some huge changes. But now I have to say, I miss some changes. For example OKW Leig: Smoke? Great! But no AOE or damage buff? This thing is almost useless compared to mortars... It's the only choice OKW has for anti-garrison but the garrison damage is almost 0. Those things were fixed with the Fall Preview and are now mising.

    The nerf to OKW Panther... ok, that's a never ending discussion. I must say I play 90% axis and I often use Panthers, both OKW and WM. So I know how hard it is, to fight some Fireflies/Comets, T34/85 and Jacksons/Pershings. I never felt that Panther is too strong. To the contrary: Panther gets everytime focused and could die really quickly due to 2 Jacksons, 2 SU85 or 1 Firefly with Tulips. I don't know why it gets nerfed. So much fuel and such a slow firing rate... I think it's fine right now and shouldn't be touched excepted WM Panther's reload time, thats fine and was really needed!

    The Jackson nerf... This tank has such a paper armor and gets destroyed by almost everything except Luger P08 in a second. But on the opposite, it has a great cannon with great penetration and huge damage. So IMO it's fine right now. USF has a really good and fast tank hunter for not that much fuel with high output but at high risk. To increase its health won't help it to survive longer. But the fuel increase will make it harder to purchase. So I don't ge the point here.

    In conclusion, I appreciate your advance and I really look forward to your commander revamp (that was soooo much needed!!!!!11). But please don't touch things that are actually working. There are so many other things that need fixes and buffs/nerfs.

    You keep on working, we keep on playing!

  • #5
    1 year ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270

    I call it the Awakening of Relic.

    -I seriously believe that it is necessary that enter in the scope something of the Walking Stuka.
    -Respect to the commanders, the WFA/Brit are very well cared for, it will really be difficult to make changes.
    With regard to the eastern armies, they need many changes. Feedbacks of commanders will be very polemic.

    Thanks Guys.

  • #6
    1 year ago
    Lnk003Lnk003 Posts: 387
    edited November 2017

    Nice to see COH2 is not dead in your eyes.
    Couple of things tho,
    You need to nerf bundle grenades and their UKF copy paste version, they are op af (for ex take out most of a full hp squad that is in green cover so when dmg is reduced by half) and now will hurt squads even more since going out of a garrison will take couple of seconds for the full squad (both can wipe full hp wooden buildings so will wipe most of the squad).
    Riflenade doesn't have any fuse time also, i think it's the only one and it's a bit weird (you can throw it without leaving cover so why the no fuse above that)
    Light cover (yellow) should grant half of the green cover bonuses (25% less from grenades dmg and indirect fire) otherwise go in light cover (like wood fence etc) is worse that open field since you squad is more exposed to wipe.

    Also can you answer this: Are all the changes of the fall preview include in this patch, and the patch note additive to all the changes that were made but not listed ? Or do you start back from nothing?
    It seems a bit sad to loose all what have been done in the fall preview imo

  • #7
    1 year ago

    OMG CoH2 showing signs of life! +10000 to Imperial Dane's comment. Couldn't have said it better myself.

    I understand the panther has always been in such a weird position in that both allied and axis players hate it. Axis players buy the panther for a reliable tank hunter and especially heavy counter, but it's offensive power is lacking. Allied players hate it because it seems unkillable. For a 1v1 player, panthers are already blatantly underpowered. However, I do understand the team game frustrations of panther spam due to the resource float in team games. Hence the fuel cache nerf. I'd agree to nerfing the OKW panther accuracy penalty to 50% however, increasing the pop cap is simply unwarranted. This will make the comet so much more efficient. I'd say that if base panther stats are nerfed, the panther should get some ability to make it considerably better. Some have suggested increasing RoF when blitzing. I think panther should get stock heat rounds like the elite armored ability which increase damage to 200. If Relic decides to remove vet 2 armor, the bonus should be replaced with something else, like better penetration so that it's more reliable vs heavies.

    It's good to see that the Ost panther is actually looking like its better than the OKW panther with the reload time buff. All this time the Ost panther was more expensive to get yet inferior and what made and still makes Tier 4 so unwelcoming is the overpriced Brum and mediocre pwerfer.

  • #8
    1 year ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited October 2017
    Panther is dead now without armor buff at vet2. It is a complete useless vehicle. Bad range, bad accuracy and bad damage. There is no reason to build it, all enemy counter parts are better or has abilities. Now nerf all allii tank destroyer gun to same level as Panther. Give Panther, Firefly, Jackson 55 range, so all Paks can outrange them. Give brits same pak as US, their standard one does overperform because of emplacements.

    Ostheer don't need MG42 in T0. Give them MG34 in T1 and move Grens to T0. Give OKW MG42.

    Remove British trenches, they are only cancer.

    Remove Volks STG44 upgrade. They don't need it. You have Sturmpios for that role.

    Give Ostwind suppression on its main gun. Maybe switch it with Brummbär from T3 to T4. You have 222 for early anti-air.

    Give Tiger I same smoke ability as Sherman. Without commander tactics the tank is useless. (like most commanders).

    Give Panzerwerfer same hit animation as German AI-minefield. Looks better, is more accurate because it used shrapnel and it fits better to its effect. (there are some units with wired hit animations, which don't fit with their effect. For example Firefly, Jackson, Elefant... Why that huge impact?).

    Reduce damage of Paks and tank hunters against emplacements and bunkers by 0,5. You have mortars, arty or battle tanks to do that job. (Zis ability).

    Vickers does over perform. Make it a Maxim clone with angle of MG34. You don't need as much DPS when you can build tommies.

    Remove the MG shield on StuG unless you upgraded the MG. It looks better.

    Maybe give Osttruppen a grenade M24 as Panzerfüsilliere to perform better.

    Remove the deflection damage of AT grenades. So they perform as Faust.

    Etc.
  • #9
    1 year ago
    ReichsgardeReichsgar… Bad Tolz, Bayern, GermanyPosts: 108
    edited October 2017

    Yes, like everybody else here I commend Relic for remaining faithful to their flagship product.

    However, I feel absolutely compelled to mention these 4 things:

    • Both OKW and WM Panthers are NOT, and I repeat NOT, overperforming by any means. It is the pinnacle of German armoured strength and should perform very well and offer a bang for its buck. Yes, reduce the reload speed for both OKW and WM panthers. Make their veterancy bonuses more useful. Give both Panthers some unique abilities that align with their historical fame for being laser-accurate killing machines.

    • Also, I personally don't think the Panther should be nerfed in anyway. If there is one thing that the Panther does NOT need, it's a nerf. The decision to remove its Vet 2 armour bonus and increasing its pop cap to 18 seem completely unnecessary. Vet 2 bonus represents the schurzen armoured skirt upgrades and they are vital for the Panther as it comes under fire from things as small as a PTRS (which has a ridiculous dps and penetration) to a Jackson tank destroyer. Increasing the pop cap from 16 to 18 and only improving its reload speed slightly does not seem right. If you're going to make it cost 18 pop cap, then it should be worth its weight.

    • WM medium tanks like the Panzer IV need a serious upgrade as they are currently lacklustre units that pale in comparison to the other tanks such as the Sherman, Cromwell and T-34. Give Panzer IVs more abilities and more worthwhile veterancy bonuses (accuracy and sight/firing range) that reflect their high efficacy in WW2.

    • Imperial Dane mentioned this in his video but WM is in serious need for a revamp regarding its core infantry units. I don't think we need to add a new unit as Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers seem sufficient in my opinion. All we have to do is to buff their basic stats and their veterancy bonuses. And most importantly, WM Grenadiers drop like flies! Why are they so easily killable compared to other infantry units (British Infantry Sections come to mind...)?

    I will certainly post more comments and feedback but the above three issues really need to be looked into.

  • #10
    1 year ago
    Schwere_PanzerSchwere_P… Berlin, GermanyPosts: 23

    I agree with everything Reichsgarde mentioned above. It makes sense to buff the Panther and I honestly think it is long overdue. But also, let's not forget about the infantry. Wehrmacht infantry need a major overhaul.

  • #11
    1 year ago
    icedayiceday Posts: 4

    happy to see the game still have future plans

    i completely agree with IMPERIALDANE i strongly urge you to see his posted video

    i'm surprised to see axis nerfs honestly axis do NOT have a single unit that would excel compared unit from allies.

    all allies infantry are superior to axis from the same tier in combat and utility. i mean fighting USF trying to counter an infantry spam with MG but they all have smoke is like saying nope your MG is useless. I know now the plan is to move smoke Rear Echelon and Lieutenant but still is not a tactical challenge compared to use smoke from a mortar.

    Pioneers are a human rights crime they are useless in battle they are the only units to repair and have to run them back for every tier upgrade compare that to similar units from allies.

    medium tanks for axis are all useless with the exception of the stug. P4 can't hold its own vs Cromwell vs T-34/85 (no one use T-34/76). Ostwind is not scary enough to infantry they still 1 unit can chase and try to cripple it with no fear of wipe compare that with Centaur AA if i try to run and cripple the tank with 1 unit 100% wipe.

    panther nerf is beyond understanding i will take Comet stats even after you nerfed it and put on a panther and give the panther stats to the comet with no nerf i will be very happy. It seems that you forget that the panther is utterly useless vs infantry so you have to make huge investment to get to t4 and then get a very expensive tank that is only decent vs other tanks (when it is standing still) vs a Comet a very fast tank which can hold its own vs tanks and kill infantry.

    it seems your removing any late game tools for axis and completely forgetting the mess that axis have to deal with in early game fighting the T70 nightmare, M5A1 Stuart and the much less scary AEC. and what you decied is lets give a small buff to the 222 and make it expinsive yet its still it is not scary enough to infantry they can baith in its rounds while capping and then retreat where if any unit try to even stay for a few seconds vs T70 its 100% wipe also lets not forget the T70, AEC and Stuart are hard-counters for the mediocre 222

    Also you need to look into Bofors and mortar pit combo once those are built they are impossible to remove even in a front line. If you think its ok as it is then axis should get access to brace ability for there emplacement as well i mean when was the last time you seen some one build a pak 43 you just need 1 mortar to kill it. the Schwerer Panzer Headquarters is not as half good as Bofors and its a life line for OKW yet they can not be braced?

  • #12
    1 year ago
    Yep, Bofors does overperform as hell too. Make it a Schwere clone.

    Maybe remove the brace ability and give emplacements more hp instead.
  • #13
    1 year ago
    vasa171960vasa171960 Posts: 92
    edited October 2017

    I dont agree with Dane, ostheer is one balanced factions for years, coz you dont have abuse stuff like it was with soviet penals/maxim spam, with brits, with USF, OKW. Almost all abuse from ostheer get fix, stugE. Now in team games just need fix dive bomb, stugs, clsoe the pocket and some another little fix. But rework tiger, he lost his role with patch where buffed tank destroyers. Why in tourney we see strats grens spam into t3 that work, its coz oshteer are bad, its coz grens are bad ? Ostheer have some problems vs snipers and some part of brits play, but its okey. I whanna repeat, panther is heavy tank vs heavy tank or middle tanks, taht fact that 2 TD outplayed panther is fine. Why i dont scream that 2 stug outplayed comet, is-2, pershing ? Grens with lmg or gev 43 is good infatry + support units for them. I see that players whaana make ostheer like soviet teching, but how you whanna make it ? Some users who use = beetwin armored car and light tanks must read a little better different beetwin it.
    Back to changes, where fussi pop cap nerf ? Where luchs nerf ?

  • #14
    1 year ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited October 2017

    Tiger needs more speed, like in the canceld patch.

    Also leIG18 needs same stats as in the candeld patch.

    All tank hunters need other weapon stats. They make way too much damage and are too accurate. Firefly snipes 222s and Kübelwägen. Their weapon should be like Panthers one. High pen, medium damage. The game is simply cancer with that OP-tank hunters. Why do we have PaKs ingame when we can simply spam?

    You can still remove the Jagdtiger and replace it with Jagdpanzer IV. Buff the Panther instead. Then you don't need two vehicles with the exact same task. Maybe make Hetzer non-doc and put it into Schwere-Panzer-Headquater, because Jagdpanzer IV get's removed.

  • #15
    1 year ago
    capiquacapiqua Posts: 270
    edited October 2017

    -Missing: Fixed an issue where garrisoning a particular building in Red Ball Express would interfere with the barracks selection hotkey.
    -Smoke moved from Riflemen to Rear Echelon. Upgrade 150/25 in the early game is enough punishment, now it is more punishment because it adds more micro to an allied unit.
    Or maybe it's normal allies... :( mmm...
    -Garrisoned load time increased. HTflame has a high mobility compared to the clumsy allied vehicles flames.
    HTflame = mobility + BUGflameInstawipe garrisoned+ flame through everything + garrisoned load time increased = GG

    -Commanders
    -An ideas for simple to redesign commanders, is to eliminate all the recon/artyflares and give it to the officers as passrecon (some already have it).
    -Rapid conscrip/Relief Inf are used few, it is better to remove them.

    Removed these abilities there are more slots for (elite units or heavy tanks or whatever)



    https://ibb.co/dCezkw
    https://ibb.co/c9JEJG
    https://ibb.co/c5fTdG

  • #16
    1 year ago

    This is noncence, really. Those changes will just kill all Axis late game, especially Ostheer.
    The Jagdtiger and Elefant are only good choice when u play against cheap TD-spam comparable with Centaur/KV8/Crocodile/Calliope.
    Nerf of Firefly is not enough here, there should be some descision about "Focus sight" on SU-85.
    And, as usually, just managing about PIVs accuracy and pen + Panthers accuracy, pen and DPS. Ostheer variants are garbage even agaist non-doc TDs and mediums of Allies.
    And some other cheese of soviet faction like "Radiocoach" doctrinal ability what is insanely helpful, M3A1 comparable with soviet sniper, Katy's effective range, Forward HQ...Still silent about UKF "Air supremacy" (If u think that Dive bomb is OP, just check that one), Sim-city commander and UKF tech-speed.

    There is a lot of Allied overpowered stuff, but everybody cries only about "Panther" what can be simply countered by couple of cheap AT-guns or a "Elefant" what is only one possible tool to comeback a full-ostheer 4v4 teamgames.

  • #17
    1 year ago
    Mr_SmithMr_Smith Posts: 343

    @capiqua said:
    -Missing: Fixed an issue where garrisoning a particular building in Red Ball Express would interfere with the barracks selection hotkey.

    Thanks for the reminder! It's actually there in the mod, but that line in the changelog was lost.

  • #18
    1 year ago
    _Aqua__Aqua_ Posts: 1,951

    Waiting to see the Commander changes, but the other changes are pretty lukewarm. The overall changes like building load/unload, FRP and repair speed are all a breath of much needed air, but some of the others are odd.

    -While I get the Ost panther changes from a team perspective, T4 is a dead tier in 1v1. I wouldn't nerf one without buffing the other. In general, I'm kinda surprised to not see a couple minor Ost buffs here and there like the Ostwind change.

    -CAS nerf doesn't seem all that spectacular considering it outright kills most vehicles anyways.

    -RE with smoke makes sense on paper until you consider the Flamer RE is a thing.

    -Luchs is probably top five most complained about units, why no Luchs nerf?

    -If you're going to modify the leIG and Mortar Pit, the current changes are painful and half-assed since they're straight buffs to problematic units/factions. FBP had a much better design that could actually do their jobs without being brain-dead AFK autofire machines.

  • #19
    1 year ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,681
    edited October 2017

    "DBP Goals

    Tune select underused / undervalued commanders to increase and diversify the number of viable strategies available in automatch (More info to come - to be included in V2 of the DBP Mod)"

    As far as I understand 2 commander per faction will touched. That makes some since small changes are easier to evaluated but since there is a very large number of commanders and the process will take "for ever" I have an additional suggestion.

    Stick to 2 commander but also fix abilities that are completely UP or OP or not consistent across the faction and are "easy" fixes.

    Here a couple of to serve as an example:

    Armored vehicles detection (Soviets) "vehicle detection" from shrek storm-troopers and detection from Tank Hunter IS.

    1) These performance 3 abilities is completely inconstant. ATIS get the ability always on for free, storm-troopers need a 75 mu upgrade and then pay 30 mu per use, while Soviet lose a commander ability slotand have to pay mu to use. One has to change these 3 abilities to be consistent and useful according to "cost" with the Soviet being the strongest, then wer then UKF.
    For example:
    Soviet always on up to range 35 and up to 70 when activated
    Wer always on up to range 40 and in addition providing the hammer "vehicle trucking" affect for the schreck storm-trooper
    UKF always on up to range 35 up to 70 when activated for 10 MU cost.

    2) "Heavy fortification" (OKW), "Trenches"/"defensive fortification" Ostheer, "Tank Traps" Soviets, "Riflemen field defenses".
    Again the abilities are completely inconstant.
    Suggestions:
    Trenches/tank traps Ostheer merged a single ability and moved to CP1 (maybe 0)
    "Tank Traps" PMD-6M AT mine merged to a single ability and moved to CP1 (maybe 0)
    "Riflemen Field defenses" renamed to "Field defenses" move to CP 1, riflemen can not build fighting positions, sandbags and mines moved to RE.

    3) "Recon planes". Either ostheer planes detect invisible also or non of them detect invisible.

    4) "Mark Target" Soviet and "Coordinated fire" Com Pan are very powerful abilities especially in team games and could easily replace the damage penalty with an armor penalty making them less powerful but still useful.

    Repair Speeds
    USF Rear Echelon & British Royal Engineers:
    Vet 0 repair speed reduced from 2 to 1.6
    Vet 2 repair bonus decreased from 1 to 0.5
    Heavy Sapper upgrade (sappers only) decreased repair speed from 2 to 0.525
    Sturmpioneers
    Vet 0 repair decreased from 3 to 2

    Although these changes are great I fill the need to point some other inconsistencies and issues.

    1) WFA can either have a weapon (flamer) or sweeper that imo should apply to all engineers especially since EFA are more better fighting units.
    Suggestion: sweeper not takes all weapon slots.

    2) The weapon that UKF/USF can pick allows them to vet to fast becoming both very good both at fighting and at repairing.
    Suggestion: remove repair bonuses from engineer type units and tie them to minesweeper upgrade. Allow vetting from repairing if needed. Now engineer type units have 2 separated roles, either support fighting units or repair units.

    3) Heavy sappers, (since change in repair speed) one can remove the "posture" movement penalty.

    4) Fix the ability of engineer type units to equip 2-3 lmg/weapons like heavy sapper, flamer/bar, Lmg bar.

    5) Pop. SP have a Pop 9 that makes them difficult to field. With the changes to repair speed to Pop need to go down to 6-7.

    To compensate one could replace 2 STG with 2 mp40 or 2 g43 (and maybe lower price to 270-280).

    Forward Retreat Points
    * UKF FRP requires Company Command Post.
    * OKW FRP requires either a Mechanized or Schwerer Panzer Headquarters established.
    * OKW Battlegroup unable to reinforce if cut-off from friendly territory.
    * Reinforcement cost (global) increased by 20% while FRP ability is active
    * 2 minute cooldown when FRP ability is deactivated
    * 30 sec cooldown when FRP ability is activated (i.e., can't be deactivated for 30s after being turned on)

    Although these changes are in a right direction the fail to take into account the differences between FRP across the faction ending up to heart OKW more than other faction who will now have even less reason to place a medic truck outside of base.

    Suggestions:

    1) Decrease cost of FRP upgrade from 300 (150-200).

    Reasons:
    Medic truck with healing and FRP is simply too expensive to risk since the returned from the upgrade is lowered by the time it becomes available.

    2) Allow other healing sources since OKW are the only faction that need to reinforce and heal at the same place.
    For instance medic upgrade could provide also medics in base or if medic truck is destroyed the next ones could come with medic automatically.

    Fuel and Munition Caches
    * MP cost increased from 200 to 250

    Although the change is a right direction it is simply not effective.

    Increasing price will simply make caches more rare in 1vs1 2vs2 but they will continue to dominate 3vs3 or 4vs4.

    Suggestion:
    Reduce the return from caches per number of players.
    Reason:
    As an investment cashes pay beck by the value of resources it has returned, thus it because better with number of players. A caches in 4vs4 game will have the same return in 1/4 of the time than in 1vs1. That is the problem that is what should be fixed.

    OKW
    Kubelwagon
    To decrease the manpower bleed the Kubelwagon can inflict in the early game (primarily vs USF), we have made the following changes:
    Decrease rear armor from 4.5 to 1.6
    Decrease front armor from 4.5 to 3.5
    Increase health form 190 to 240

    Although the change is in a good direction it makes little sense. Bleed is reduce by reducing DPS and not making a weak unit weaker.

    Suggestion: Reduce the far DPS and remove scatter hits (from all small arm weapon including bar/ST44).

    Jagdtiger
    To decrease the on field dominance of the Jagdtiger against Allied tanks, the unit has received the following changes. To help keep the unit useful vs infantry, the Supporting Fire ability has received some performance enhancements.

    Since JT is not stunned from shot replace vet 5 bonus with something actually useful.

  • #20
    1 year ago
    kflikfli Posts: 15

    Is USF affected by the FRP changes? I think they should include it too.

  • #21
    1 year ago

    A few other things:

    • Is the croc fixed? I heard there are 2 flamers instead of one which is why it's so op.
    • If panthers are nerfed, stugs shouldn't be touched.
    • However, I hope that the ostwind buff will be realized
    • AEC needs a damage nerf.
  • #22
    1 year ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,472

    Solid looking changes, I welcome con accuracy change the most, it finally makes them a tad more reliable as their high damage and low accuracy ensured they became redundant the moment opponent got single weapon upgrade.

    Now they'll be able to scale by themselves without having to resort to ppsh always if you want to use them.

    I also like penal PTRS and satchel changes, will help a lot with AT role.

    Repair changes are amazing as well as vanila factions were so far behind in that department it wasn't even funny.

  • #23
    1 year ago
    Hesky85Hesky85 Posts: 52
    edited October 2017

    Wehrmacht needs still some infantry adjustments. Give Panzergrenadiers an MG34 upgrade because in late game they dont do damage with their short range STGs. It is simply not enough what you get for 340mp and the high reinforcement costs.

    And please give grenadiers maybe with Vet 1 oder Vet 2 received accuary bonus. It's so hard to get them to vet 3 where they get the first survival buff. They still die too fast what is very frustrating.

    Maybe reduse the cost of the stormtroopers to 320 or 300. Compared to the light jäger infantry from OKW you dont get much for the high price. Jägers costs 300mp and have a G43 from the beginning...

    Overall playing Wehrmacht is still a payne in the ass because you run out of infantry over time because:
    1. The build prices are too high
    2 The infantry is too weak
    3. the reinforce costs are too high

    Edit:
    I agree with the panther nerf. The panther cannot kill infantry and cannot kill tanks by chasing them. Why is the panther OP?! Thats hilarious. I see very often that a comet can one-shot a Wehrmacht squad but Panther is so OP...

  • #24
    1 year ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited October 2017

    I don't know why USF deserve mines. They already have access to mines in 4 out of 8 doctrines and demos in 2 of 8 commanders. Has Relic any notion of asymmetrical factions? Probably not, as USF has already been given pershings and mortars. Why am I still surprised? Can ostheer get free units after tech, a pre-built base, weapon racks (double upgrades), non-doc recon runs and artillery? Free vehicle crews? Non doc tank smoke? Bulletproof light vehicles? 25% moving penalty? Can ostheer at least get sandbags on grens? A time decrease on pios is pointless as they are already overworked. The answer apparently is no, because grens have bunkers. Somehow, people don't realize that bunkers cost 150mp and easily 3 shotted by attack ground at guns. Unlike cheap brit trenches at guns rarely miss it.

    Speaking of demos, why aren't they nerfed and instead a doctrinal stuka dive bomb is nerfed? You can easily wipe a squad even if they aren't standing right on top of the demo. The USF demos are even more powerful. Or nerf UKF airburst which are just as good as stuka bombs except they get several shells instead of just one. What about increasing the cost of major arty and pyrotechnic arty?

    I like that WFA repair times are finally getting looked at. Just don't forget to nerf the vehicle crew repair times in addition to rear ech.

    The wording of some of the patch notes are embarrassing. The reason for nerfing OKW panther was to "diversify late game tech." What other late game vehicles do you want OKW to use? I recall that FBP was also nerfing the Jagdpanzer. So much for encouraging diversity. And now the superheavy TD are getting nerfed (not that I'm against that.) How is that encouraging diversity? And apparently, Relic thinks that the Ostheer panther was in a great spot. That couldn't be further from the truth. Though it may see some action in team games, it is completely overpriced for 1v1. Maybe add some unique abilities to tier 4 units like heat rounds? Brits get a lot of non-doc abilities on tanks late game. Grenades, WP shells, free blitz, etc. Ostheer has the worst early game hands down, and gets nothing to help it late game in 1v1.

    I'm dying to see what nerfs Relic has in store for volks. Because they have made infantry balance a mess. Also Relic needs to make DAMN CLEAR what nerfs from FBP are being implemented into this patch. If StuG is still getting nerfed after these pathetic panther nerfs, it is time for Ostheer players to retire. Ostheer has always gotten the worst for quite a few years and if the flagship unit like StuG is getting nerfed with no compensation, what is the point of Ostheer?

    Like the changes to cons, however, I hope Relic did ample testing that they don't break the balance vs grens. (cough, cough, penals, usf mortar)

  • #25
    1 year ago

    changes actually look promising but there is one thing you guys are missing rifleman needs a buff atleast decrease their cost to 260 so they will actually worth something or buff their damage to 10 im not asking much really but USF really cant do much when they are stuck with a single infantry type that deals pitiful damage expensive and so easy to kill this needs to be adressed

  • #26
    1 year ago

    While I am hopeful that the model spacing will help the Wehrmact against UKF mortar emplacement, as it stands, the mortar pit can too easily lock down large portions of the map and wipe squads. That was the whole reason why the mortar pit needed to be nerfed in the first place. In so many fights, I have to completely retreat the UKF player just to get access to a vet 3 mortar emplacement only for my weakened remaining forces to encounter brace which last long enough to allow all of the UKF squads to replenish and reattack. This could be so easily fixed if you allowed us to decrew mortar pits so they lose there veterancy like every other damn mortar in this game. In large team games especially, I am seeing more and more players build two mortar pits beside one another with MG and AT support making infantry attacks impossible in that area of the map.
    Please reconsider some of the changes to the mortar pit. And potentially look at whether or not a decrew mechanic would be appropriate.

  • #27
    1 year ago

    the conscript change is most welcome. they will be more consistent with their new accuracy buff and damage nerf. the side tech being bundeld into one is great. their rec acc and ppshs are being compensated with these changes in mind. this is how you balance a unit imo. its give and take. cant wait to see how well they will do in the late game now without ppshs in particular. they actualy seem to be worth 240mp now.

    the maxim supression buff seems minimal to me. but its better then nothing i gues. with cons probably being viable now i dont think maxim spam will return to the level it did if it should reliably surpress. cant wait to see this as well.

    Both panther nerfs however i find excesive. i agree that the armour buff with vet needed to go along with the absurd 100% buff with blitz for the okw panther(wich goes for all okw vehicles). the pop increase i kinda understand. but something has to be buffed in return.
    The ost panther is getting a rof buff but i think it wont be enough. i would like to see the ost panther get a HE shot or ability duration at vet 2. if the okw panthers doesnt get any thing as a buff its fuel price needs to be lowered.

  • #29
    1 year ago
    SolanSolan Posts: 1

    First of all I'm happy to see initiative and welcome most of the changes proposed in this patch. Here are some things I would like to suggest:

    1. Implement the suggested changes to emplacements in the cancelled patch. Decreased effective time period for the brace ability. Increased time between when it's ready for use again. PREFERABLY get ridd of the ability all together.

    2. More veto's for maps.

    3. Fix pathfinding over uneven terrain often causing tanks to not do what ordered.

    4. Decrease accuracy and or damage for all mortars (especially US. Soviet 120mm seems to have a preferable accuracy compared to the rest imo) against targets out in the open and in cover. The cause for A LOT of silly wipes.

    5. Removal of the "Stand Fast" ability found under UKF's "royal engineer regiment" commander. This is an absolute cancerous ability allowing the already hard to kill emplacements to auto repair them selfs.

    Lastly I would heed caution to some of the nerfing I see on Wehrmacht units like others have mentioned.

    Thanks.

  • #30
    1 year ago
    comrade_daelincomrade_d… Posts: 2,948

    @Vipper said:
    Forward Retreat Points
    * UKF FRP requires Company Command Post.
    * OKW FRP requires either a Mechanized or Schwerer Panzer Headquarters established.
    * OKW Battlegroup unable to reinforce if cut-off from friendly territory.
    * Reinforcement cost (global) increased by 20% while FRP ability is active
    * 2 minute cooldown when FRP ability is deactivated
    * 30 sec cooldown when FRP ability is activated (i.e., can't be deactivated for 30s after being turned on)

    Although these changes are in a right direction the fail to take into account the differences between FRP across the faction ending up to heart OKW more than other faction who will now have even less reason to place a medic truck outside of base.

    Suggestions:

    1) Decrease cost of FRP upgrade from 300 (150-200).

    Reasons:
    Medic truck with healing and FRP is simply too expensive to risk since the returned from the upgrade is lowered by the time it becomes available.

    2) Allow other healing sources since OKW are the only faction that need to reinforce and heal at the same place.
    For instance medic upgrade could provide also medics in base or if medic truck is destroyed the next ones could come with medic automatically.

    Indeed, the problem with this FRP change for OKW is that it defeats the purpose of placing it anywhere outside of base. Being cutoff is impossible if it is a sector adjacent to HQ, but then you sort of revert the scope of the changes back to 1v1 perspective. No large 4v4 map will ever see an T2 truck outside of base and adjacent sectors, since the effort to maintain it anywhere else will be too much work.
    Ostheer having these restrictions would't be bad since you can build multiple bunkers, use MG bunkers to guard sectors, and have caches; But OKW has NONE of those.

    I like the idea of cutoff affecting reinforcement, but the change between cutoff and secure is too great, being disproportionate between player/ map size: this change isn't a big deal in a 1v1 map where you can just deploy the truck next to HQ, but a huge difference in a large map like General Mud.
    **I would recommend that reinforcing is disabled if the sector it is deployed neutralized/ captured.
    **
    It still carries the penalty of no reinforcing, but limited to its specific sector. This way it encourages using T2 truck outside of base, but still carries two risks: you need the actual sector secured, and encourages players to deploy the truck closer to the flag, which carries the risk of being easier to locate and attack.
    To me this seems much better in terms of player/ map size as it reduces the effects of FRP without relying on methods that are entirely dependent on map size and configuration; T2 truck can't be deployed in VP sectors, and it's redundant when deployed in HQ sector. Unless you choose specific commanders the sector being captured doesn't take a huge difference to how OKW otherwise operates, and commanders you do select will preferably concentrate on that single sector to ensure it's offering FRP support properly. All of these have their own tactical drawbacks- OKW is not a camping faction like UKF.

    I think the FRP activate/ deactivate should just be the same 30 seconds. I don't see the point in 120 seconds for deactivating, IMO it encourages less micromanagement yet has a potentially massive effect when actually used. Is constantly toggling it even an effective method for anything? It cancels FRP retreat path when deactivated, but doesn't reactivate if you re-toggle.

    Another indirect idea that popped up in mind from all of this is that the HQ trucks themselves can act like caches: whatever sector they are deployed in they offer the same cache benefits, re increased income and secures the respective sector. As the only faction in the game that doesn't have a way to secure sectors or use caches, they'd still be limited to three locations, and also greatly encourage using the HQ tucks outside of base. That's the point of the HQ trucks after all, isn't it?
    The strategy to maximize this would be that you have the three trucks connected to eachother and to base sector, but which of course is dictated by how far out you can go without tactical risks, which order you want the trucks to deploy, and whether you can pull of that strategy over the course of a match. This also means that certain strategic points of a map might be left unguarded: you might want them spread out to ensure greater overall control, but risk having them cut off. The enemy's not going to just let you take control of three connected sectors and deploy all trucks in them without a fight.
    Obvious drawback to the idea is that this is also disproportionate to map size: this would make HQ trucks in a 1v1 match overpowered since you cannot take territories without also taking them out, which requires significant effort. In that case I think HQ trucks would need a Secure Territory upgrade that cost 200 or more manpower, so that you don't inherently take and hold sectors just be deploying. In addition the need for the truck to be fully deployed needs to apply as well, so you don't secure territory just by beginning to deploy the truck.
    With this idea in effect, the sector cutoff thing works, because you have the option to secure territory but still mind the other sectors around you, and the enemy has the option of doing either.

    I don't think OKW needs more healing sources though, they already have medkits from Sturmpioniers, and if you have HQ building deploy medics alongside your T2 at base then base deployment would be even more encouraged since you have like six medics in one place, which would just encourage blobbing.

    Anyways that's my input from a 4v4 perspective.

  • #31
    1 year ago
    OberOber Posts: 94
    edited October 2017

    ...And again nerf for kubel.... how many times this useless thing will be nerfed again and again??? supression removed, useless vs snipers and now armor nerf... seriously??? get rid this unit from OKW and move MG34 to t0 without extra requirement, this faction is holding hordes of mass riffles only with volks and expensive and weak sturmpios... oh wait FRP nerfed too, ok guys lets hold the line with just volks 10 -15 mins until t3, pffff

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