I think the house jumping nerf is a terrible idea as mgs will basically be sentenced to death if they decide to enter a building and the opponent has grenades. They already have long packup times. Maybe the mgs should not be subject to this house jumping nerf at least.
Its not realy a problem with ONE okw panther overperforme, its when they spamed in team games they become a seriously problem. Its as close to a heavy tank as it gets. Theres a reason why they nerfed the comet tank, it was clearly OP when spamed, not so much as just one. Otherwise im glad with the changes and think most of the changed will fit in good.
The OKW nerfs completely baffle me. The FRP nerf in particular reeks of overkill and looks to encourage blobbing even more (activate FRP, blob retreat, deactivate and then reinforce). Why have we ignored Volks and the Luchs when their strength is the main source of OKWs strength? Dont get me wrong Im happy for FRPs to be nerfed but the combo nerf looks like its way too much.
The reinforce cost + no reinforce when cutoff would have been enough without needing an additional truck. But I'm sure thatll play out in the testing.
640 HP jackson is also a real wtf moment for me given that we're supposed to be adding strategic diversity, not reinforcing allied inf -> TD spam.
That said, you've got more iterations of the patch to go so I'll remain optimistic.
Thank you relic for continuing to support this game. I welcome the upcoming update and hope it improves gameplay.
I also wanted to express that I am a HUGE fan of the garrison changes (some tuning required), squad behaviour efforts (one day you'll win) and standardization with respect to field constructions; I hope my fellow players agree.
My biggest concern for the future: continuing to balance the game at the global level - rather than at the game mode level - will perpetuate the nerfing/buffing cycle indefinitely. For example, having stat tables specific to game modes (1v1 stats differ from 2v2) would allow tweaks where certain units are being a problem in certain game modes. Such a process would be started by having the global unit stats copied into all game mode tables - then tweaked in future balance updates. I understand this may never be possible, but I feel it would allow the satisfaction all of the various gameplay "factions".
Nerfing something like the elephant might be welcomed (and make sense) in the 4v4 arena where up to 4 can exist at once; can ultimately make the unit undesirable in a 1v1 or 2v2 environment.
Speaking strictly as an AI skirmish player, I'm not sure what the FRP problem is, but I'd rather see changes that don't affect manpower costs and cooldown. Cooldown like this just seems to me to be interfering with people trying to play the game. Increased manpower costs just seems to be punishing people who use FRPs.
Instead of increasing manpower costs, how about thinking of something else like slowing the reinforcement rate, with further slowing of reinforcement for units in combat? Perhaps scale whatever the penalty is based on the distance from base, compared to the overall map size. Sure, it's still a punishment for people using FRPs, but seems a bit more realistic to me.
At some point I'd rather not play a game where part of my strategy involves trying to decide where I should retreat based on manpower costs. I already have to do that based on if I think I'll get killed at an FRP. I can use the same logic for reinforcement speed. I'm not trying to perform in-game calculus.
@Ober kuble costs less than a con squad but was: faster, more durable, caps faster, can contribute to a fight, no bleed, no fuel cost, but can GIVE 5 fuel when killed, NO BLEED, caps faster, didnt bleed and of course the obvious fact that its a t0 car and doesnt bleed all while being able to inflict bleed. Its not unseen to open with 2-3 kubles, hell in steppes ive seen 4 kubles from 3 okw each (you literally couldnt match that map control or firepower or durability with cons- a unit thats supposed to be aboit durability and map control) and a wehr just build caches. Bullet proof kuble is a BAD thing, this change is not
Instead of gutting WFA FRPs with the +20% reinforce cost, why not bring the EFAs closer to their level?
Here's a simple solution: EFA units retreat to the closest base building. They can reinforce from all base buildings currently, so it's not too big a stretch. Maybe lock this ability behind tech or time, but with the relatively short range that might be unnecessary. I say simple, but of course a few adjustments would be in order to fully implement this.
In the case of the Soviets, when there are no wounded in or near the base sector, the medics would prefer to idle at the most recently retreat pathed base building instead of running back and forth from the HQ. In the case of Ostheer, make it so they prefer to retreat to a med bunker if it's in the base sector. Alternatively, and I personally think this is the better solution, if the med bunker is within the base sector, make the German meds copy the Soviet meds in function, preferring to wait at the most relevant building instead of their bunker. Base buildings would need to be able to toggle their not-so-forward retreat points in order to further prevent base clumping issues.
This also adds some extra meaning to base building placement, which currently is a bit incidental, though it has been rectified somewhat with the spawn location change. Maybe it's a stopgap measure, but it makes sense in the context of a faction that places its base buildings. I think it would be a great way to make a currently archaic base system work well.
@thedarkarmadillo You know very well that vs good players kubel spam is a suicide, every faction can handle with this, if the 5 extra fuel is the problem.. i prefer pay cost 15 fuel + 300MP but the old kubel without change, how to supposed OKW to fight vs mass riffles without mg and FRP at the start? with volks? really? relic alway drive the game to be easy for noob players... what about the bren carrier tell me more??
@Ober said: @thedarkarmadillo You know very well that vs good players kubel spam is a suicide, every faction can handle with this, if the 5 extra fuel is the problem.. i prefer pay cost 15 fuel + 300MP but the old kubel without change, how to supposed OKW to fight vs mass riffles without mg and FRP at the start? with volks? really? relic alway drive the game to be easy for noob players... what about the bren carrier tell me more??
Top ten players in 3v3s and 4v4s often open with 2 kubels. Even top 1v1 players are doing it.
A few ideas for the December Balance Patch:
Soviet Penal Battalions: they can either upgrade with 2x anti-tank rifles or a flamethrower. The anti-tank rifles are available initially but the flamethrower requires a Support Weapons Structure.
Soviet T-34/76 and T-34/85 Ramming: At Veterancy 1, ramming causes heavy engine damage instead of immobilization. At Veterancy 2, ramming has a 25% chance of not destroying the turret. At Veterancy 3, ramming has a chance to cause engine damage instead of heavy engine damage.
OKW Obersoldaten: give them a rifle smoke grenade ability that costs 25 munitions. It is a long range grenade that causes no damage but creates a small cloud of smoke upon impact, blocking line of sight. This ability does not reveal the Obersoldaten squad, even if the cloud covers an enemy squad.
Ostheer Wehrmacht Price Premium: cost of Tiger, Elefant, and Panzer IV Command Tank is reduced once either a Support Armor Korps or Heavy Panzer Korps is built.
Fuel & Munitions caches: the first cache you build costs 200 manpower, but any after that will cost 250 manpower. This makes it so you should find a strategic point to set up your initial cache.
That, does not happen...even at vet 3...maybe with a Stewart. But not a tank. That change is completely unjustified. You are again catering to newbie players. The elephant and Jadtiger already have inherent crippling weaknesses. If a player cannot exploit them...it's their own fault.
You want to talk about two shotting tanks? Very well, let's go there....
Sticky satchels....THAT two-shots tanks. The fact that this ability is in the game proves something is wrong with our system and community...I cant even wrap my head around how allied fan boys think this is a balanced ability....You want proof? Give this ability to a axis faction. I guarantee youll see it blacklisted in a hurry.
If any other professional gaming community were to see what you guys did with the sticky satchel, Overwatch, Dota2, CS, Halo...they would definately laugh at us for allowing it. It's too powerful and you know it. The soviets already have a fast paced tank cripple in the form of ATnades, this satchel is farce and insult.
You think these are fine?
The teller mine is still one shotting all lights. The bundle nade still any weapon teams bane. Twp on a at gun. The anti tank strafe wich can kill 2 tanks on the first pass. and attack when target is beyond the circle.
Axis have enough toys of their own in this regard.
The at satchal has a short range. Can cause casualties of your own army. Wich other snare/at grenade does that?
Penals dont sprint no more. The ptrs is a warning sign for at satchal in the patch.
Having it requiering ptrs is fine. It having the shorter(st) range is fine. That it can backfire on you is fine.
Now that it will track the target even after it left the range we will see if its fine.
Something is going on really really wrong here. You cant be serious to give Wehrmacht ONLY NERFS and NOT ONE SINGLE BUFF. This is something i cannot believe.
Wehrmacht is by far the weakest faction in the game and gets further nerfs, this is a joke.
The Infantry is by far the weakest and the most expensive over the distance in a game and the medicore P4 and the high priced T4.
When one faction deserves not a single nerf, than its wehrmacht!
"Panther V
As arguably thebest non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2, we felt that the unit offered too much benefit to spam and was increasingly dominate when produced in numbers. To encourage players to diversify their late game tech, we have made the following changes:
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Decreased moving accuracy from 0.65 to 0.5
Increased moving scatter from 1.7 to 2
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed (also affects command Panther)"
First the "best non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2" does not actually mean much since not many units fit the category including the Panther...Compared to what? KT, Churchill, Comet.
The Panther is not main battle tank since its main gun is bad vs soft targets. It is a counter to heavy tanks and it cost as much as most of them.
"spamming" a 200 fuel tank can easily be solved by reducing the return of fuel from caches in larger mode nerfing a specialized unit that is struggling in small mode in not the right direction.
The effectiveness of Panther is already nerfed by the changes in repair, the increase of HP of the jackson and the nerfs to Elephant/JT.
Increasing pop cap to 18 is simply wrong when the tanks it meant to counter have a pop 19 (KV-2,IS-2), Pershing has a pop of 16 and other heavy TD have much lower FF, M36 14 and Su-85 12!!!!
Decreasing accuracy/scatter is also in the wrong direction since the unit is out-ranged and has to be on the move to survive.
Simply removing the 10% armor bonus is again wrong (as it was with extra rifle grenade range) because it mess with the value of the vetted unit. If the bonus is not suited it should be replaced with something else and not simply removed. In addition Panther is a unit with high XP value and disproportional low DPS making hard to vet.
Combat Blitz
+100% accuracy bonus reduced to +20% (affects all OKW vehicles)
Although CB should be toned down a horizontal to all OKW tank is not needed, the ability should/could provide different bonus according to tank type as other similar abilities (blitz/war speed) and/or could scale with veterancy smoothint out spikes in performance.
Sturmtiger
Consider adding some suppression vs infantry
Improving, redesigning or replacing the NahVW Grenade
Panther V
Unlike the OKW Panther, we feel the OST Panther is more or less in a good spot. However, to make it somewhat more reliable in combat, the variable reload time of the main gun has been reduced.
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed
Reload time decreased from 5.8 - 6.7 to 5.2 - 5.6 (reload time does not include wind-up)
The comments about OKW Panther x2. The unit and T4 in general is UP and that is why people play Tiger doctrines, this will probably be the nail in the coffin for T4.
If the unit has the POP increased to 18 it has to become a main battle tank having a dual purpose gun either constantly or with switchable munition ISU-152 style.
Stuka Dive Bomb
* Increase AoE damage multiplier from 1/0.35/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.08
* Increased Munitions cost from 160 to 200
* Removed critical hit modifier
Although removing critical hit modifier is in the right direction the ability is simply not worth 200 mu. It simply does too little damage.
Suggestion:
Increase cooldown the ability can be used to often.
Remove recon planes from doctrines so that it can be used as a combo.
Add utility be giving more damage vs buildings/emplacements. The ability currently does not even hurt a forward assembly.
If one has to increases cost take up to 180
M4C Sherman
The M4C Sherman has been tied to Soviet Tier 4 tech to prevent it from being spammed and to encourage players to diversify their tech.
Now required the Mechanized Armor Kompenya to be constructed.
CP cost decreased to 0
A good change but why not apply the same change to KV-1? Do we really have to wait another 2 years before fixing the calling MBT (main battle tank) meta?
Penal
The Penal Squad has received some minor adjustments to bring it more in line with its cost and to reduce its effectiveness as a powerful generalist unit by offering a more distinct choice between anti-infantry and anti-vehicle.
Since the majority of the community agrees that Penal are OP why don't we actually nerf the unit where it actually OP and not beat around the bush?
In the first major overhaul it was claimed that Penal had to be very good AI because T1 did not provide AT capabilities, it proved disastrous. In the second major overhaul Penal got AT capabilities but their AI (for its time-frame) remained over the top but it was argued that it need to that high because conscripts where UP. In this patch Conscripts are buffed yet the DPS of the Penals remains over the TOP. Why? The main problem with Penal is their DPS for their time frame simply lowered down.
The moving accuracy nerf is correct still is not anywhere near enough. The reinforcement cost will have minimal impact since it can easily be bypassed by merge. The XP value is correct but the vet bonuses continue to remain over top for a unit that arrive so early and has so much DPS. The satchel charge changes are correct but still not enough.
PTRS Ready Aim Time reduced from 2 to 1.25 (affects all PTRS variants)
Since you are changing the PTRS why not fix the inconsistency across the different version.
Even better why not redesign the weapon as dedicated AT weapon that (maybe in some version) has a active mu ability allowing to be used vs infantry.
Dshka
The Dshka HMG has proved to be exceedingly cost effective and thus the adjustments made to the unit below will bring it more in line with its performance and make it less of a spammable unit.
PLS remove the sprint ability as it has been done with other HMGs.
Maxim Suppression Intel Bulletin
Suppression bonus reduced from +5% to +1%
Instead of turning the bulletin to completely useless why not replace it with different property?
6
#47
1 year ago
BaálthazorThe shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
edited November 2017
Ehh, a bit iffy here about these changes...
As others have already stated, I'm super excited about the continued support for this game at a point where most thought it nought, and while some of these changes are good and makes sense, there are some which.., do not...
1)
The Panther nerf. I only play 1v1s, so I really can't speak on team games, but this change is just the icing on the turd-cake that is Ost tier 4. Why are you so unbelievably adamant about not making that tier viable again?! NOBODY builds it in 1v1 and while it may be a bit viable in team games, why gut it completely for 1v1's?!
I've said it before and I'll say it again; Swap the Panther with the Tiger, up the performance on both(speed and pen for the Panther/accuracy and armor or damage for the Tiger) and up the cost a bit to compensate. That would help out tier 4 tremendously imho, while still keeping the associated doctrines viable if one wants the faster and more reliable Panther.
2)
The Penal satchel.
Mmm, this thing, despite its short range and friendly-fire drawbacks, are still a monster of a snare. Atm, easily the best snare in the game, bar none! The only redeeming factor is that it can be avoided by moving out of range quickly enough. And now you want to add tracking to it while only limiting it to ptrs-penals?! Seeing as ptrs-penals are still pretty fucking dope against infantry, I think I'm just going to call this thing Lucifers Lunchbox from now on...
If you are really serious about putting tracking on it, the damage of it needs to come waaaay down to compensate...
3) Kubel nerf.
It's fine. OKW is in a fine spot atm. They don't need a mechanized roadrunner to further pollute the balance.
4)
Cons buff.
Looong overdue. Everybody have been saying for years that they need buffs, so this is a welcome addition.
Though I can't help but wonder where the buff for the grens are? Everyone who said buff the cons also said buff the grens. They are still as fragile as ever and dies if the wind blows too strong. They certainly need some kind of survival buff as well.
5)
USF mines.
Lol, just Lol. Must this faction have everything??! People, yourself at Relic included have always advocated asymmetrical balance and yet you seem to give the USF everything the other factions also have;
Not enough opening diversity, give them a mortar despite the fact they had as much need of it, as a street hooker has of herpes.
Only one main line infantry unit; better make them steroid-infused cyborgs.
No heavy tank even when they had a plethora of other options; gotta give em' one which combines the best features of the IS-2 and the Tiger.
And now, no stock mines, the one saving grace their opponents has got on them; they gotta have that as well, because fuck you, that's why...
6)
The ISU-152 buff.
I like it. It might actually see some use again, after having been left in the garbage bin for years.
7)
The dushka, maxim and Lend Lease nerfs.
These are good. I like them. They are the main stay of the Soviets and it's getting old.
8)
The heavy TD nerfs.
Once again, you are taking vehicles which are PERFECTLY FINE and gutting them, because of some arbitrary reason. They already have such severe drawbacks that hardly anybody uses them in 1v1. So in order to cater to the team games players, you are intent on doing so at the cost of the 1v1 players..?
I'll properly gather some more thoughts later on, but for now, I like the attention this game is still getting, just wish the scope was a bit bigger tbh.
Kubelwagon
To decrease the manpower bleed the Kubelwagon can inflict in the early game (primarily vs USF), we have made the following changes:
Decrease rear armor from 4.5 to 1.6
Decrease front armor from 4.5 to 3.5
Increase health form 190 to 240
Why on earth would you do this? The soviets have their early truck and the british have the bren carrier which are both far superior to a kubelwagon. Even 2 kubels would not be able to come close to the bleed of the other units.
Jagdtiger
To decrease the on field dominance of the Jagdtiger against Allied tanks, the unit has received the following changes. To help keep the unit useful vs infantry, the Supporting Fire ability has received some performance enhancements.
Damage reduced from 320 to 300
Accuracy reduced from 0.06/0.05/0.04 to 0.055/0.045/0.03
Range reduced from 85 to 80
Supporting Fire range reduced from 125 to 95
Engine upgrade rotation bonus removed
Pop-cap increased from 21 to 23
Supporting Fire ability now available at Vet 0
Vet 1 replaced with Supporting Fire Barrage shells increased from 3 to 5
Supporting fire changes:
You are taking to much away from the Jagdtiger all at one time. This is a common mistake you regularly make. This unit has major weaknesses which are not being taken into account. Why not just reduce the damage slightly?
Panther V
As arguably the best non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2, we felt that the unit offered too much benefit to spam and was increasingly dominate when produced in numbers. To encourage players to diversify their late game tech, we have made the following changes:
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Decreased moving accuracy from 0.65 to 0.5
Increased moving scatter from 1.7 to 2
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed (also affects command Panther)
The Panther is not a tank in this game , it is an armoured , reduced range tank destroyer that will lose to a well microed cheaper tank destroyer every time. The panther is terrible against soft targets. Removing the vet 2 bonus is just the icing on the cake .
Sturmtiger
Abandon critical now only occurs from ballistic weapons
The Sturmtiger Abandon Critical while reloading chance reduced from 50% to 25%
Damage reduced from 640 to 580
Manpower cost increased from 560 to 620
Fuel cost increased from 160 to 180
Population cost increased from 18 to 20
All random critical types removed except for vehicle stun
Aside from the abandonment fixes the other changes make no sense. This unit was intended to be high risk high reward. There is no reason to overnerf this with increased cost and reduced damage.
WEHRMACHT
Panther V
Unlike the OKW Panther, we feel the OST Panther is more or less in a good spot. However, to make it somewhat more reliable in combat, the variable reload time of the main gun has been reduced.
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed
Reload time decreased from 5.8 - 6.7 to 5.2 - 5.6 (reload time does not include wind-up)
The Ost Panther is not in a good spot at all . This is why the majority of the community has been complaining about it for years. Why on earth would you remove its armor bonus and increase pop cap? This unit currently has just 1 purpose which is often negated by much cheaper tank destroyers. It would be best to give Panther good AI as to at least give players an incentive to upgrade to tier 4 because at the moment there isn't one.
SOVIET
Maxim
To make some slight performance improvements to the Maxim HMG, the following changes have been made:
Suppression from 0.00006 to 0.000065.
Nearby suppression from 1.25 to 1.
Ready-Aim Time to 0.125.
Fire-Aim Time to 0.125.
Fire-Aim Time multipliers standardized to 0.5.
Maxim Suppression Intel Bulletin
Suppression bonus reduced from +5% to +1%
No "Slight performance improvements are necessary this unit is a beast with a whopping big crew to boot
Conscript
To make Conscript squads scale better into the mid to late game, as well as, be able to trade better vs comparable Axis squads such as Volksgrenadiers, the following changes have been made:
Damage from 16 to 12
Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.7182821/0.6598548/0.55654425
Near range increased from 0 to 10
PPSH accuracy from reduced from 0.621/0.43/0.2 to 0.5645455/0.3909091/0.181818
Molotov upgrade has been merged with the Anti-tank upgrade at the HQ
Conscripts are one of the most versatile early game infantry units with more abilities than any other.
Orah! - Merge - Build Sandbag - Molotov cocktail - RPG-43 Anti-Tank Grenades , Hit the Dirt! , Trip Wire Flares. The volksgrenadiers you mention have nothing like these. So conscripts now have all those abilities with the added benefit of being on a similar level to volks and grens. All conscripts need are an incremental accuracy increase
Additional--- There has been no mention of partisans. Partisans. Still far to strong for only 210 manpower and the anti tank partisans need to research shrek not just instant pop out of building then destroy a unit in friendly territory.
Additional 2--- Field HQ - Only cap in territory and only by an engineer. There is nothing more ridiculous, unfair and cheesy then a lone conscript squad running into a massive building surrounded by enemies in hostile territory and set up a base with bonuses to all friendly units. Why has this been missed out?
USF
Jackson
The Jackson has received a slight buff to its health to allow players to be a bit more aggressive and utilize its speed to perform more hit and run tactics. Cost increased to match performance.
Health increased from 480 to 640
Fuel increased from 125 to 140
Manpower increased from 350 to 400
Health increase is to much , Jackson already has the range to counter far more expensive tanks . The last thing it needs is a big health buff.
BRITISH
Mortar Pit
Now has access to smoke barrage at Vet 0
Vet 1 reduces smoke barrage cooldown
The British emplacements and brace are one of the worst culprits in balance issues and astonishingly are left not only untouched but with increased utility. The british mortar pit only costs 400 manpower for 2 mortars and already has a smoke ability along with brace
Additional--- The bofors has not been mentioned despite only costing 280manpower and 30 fuel . This emplacement desperately needs a cost increase as it is far to cost effective.
Addional 2 and alternative, Why not have Brace reduce manpower when used as to prevent spamming brace ?
The British emplacements and brace are one of the worst culprits in balance issues and astonishingly are left not only untouched but with increased utility. The british mortar pit only costs 400 manpower for 2 mortars and already has a smoke ability along with brace
Additional--- The bofors has not been mentioned despite only costing 280manpower and 30 fuel . This emplacement desperately needs a cost increase as it is far to cost effective.
Addional 2 and alternative, Why not have Brace reduce manpower when used as to prevent spamming brace ?
Great patch! you came back with Fall Balance Preview Changelog, excellent! There are only one problem, you forgot change the Jagdtiger like the Fall Balance Preview Changelog did it. Because you changed the elephant, but no the Jagdtiger.
Conscript
To make Conscript squads scale better into the mid to late game, as well as, be able to trade better vs comparable Axis squads such as Volksgrenadiers, the following changes have been made:
Damage from 16 to 12
Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.7182821/0.6598548/0.55654425
Near range increased from 0 to 10
PPSH accuracy from reduced from 0.621/0.43/0.2 to 0.5645455/0.3909091/0.181818
Molotov upgrade has been merged with the Anti-tank upgrade at the HQ
Changes to DPS in translate in numbers
New mosin around x100% (range 0) x136% (range 10) x108% (range 20) x90% (range 30)
New PPsh around x91% all ranges.
That roughly translates for a PPsh conscript
x93% (range 0) x99% (range 10) x101.94% (range 20) x90% (range 30).
Although the changes in Mosin other ranges are not problematic at range 10 things become very very problematic.
At range 10-15 a conscripts squad out DPS VG, Grenadier and even pioneers while continuing to have more EHP. Combined with ourah it will create many problems. If Conscripts are to become a close quarter unit they should change weapon type and lose or have ourah redesigned.
Although moving near range to 10 is a step in the correct direction and should be implement to all bolt action/ semi auto weapons giving a bigger advantage to CQ weapons the DPS value at range 10 is simply too high.
The PPSH on the other hand should follow the exact opposite root and have its near range moved from 10 to 0.
Ideal the conscript should not have to mix weapon with different optimum ranges like ppsh and bolt action and have the dotrinal ability either give them 6 ppsh or a number SVTs.
The merge of the abilities at the same cost and time to research is totally uncalled for and will make human wave tactics even more effective. Soviet have cheap teching, flexible teching and a the widest viriety of doctrinal solution. If this change makes to game it should be countered weight by step like:
Increasing research time
and/or increasing cost of T1
and/or adding a tech cost to Penal satchel
and/or adding a cost to PTRS and AT satchel (soviet seem to the only faction that get stock AT weapons with no tech cost).
ISU-152
Pls remove minimum range or make smaller to 2.
Lower price for "Concrete-Piercing" shot and maybe replace the mechanic to be similar to Pershing/FF tulips.
USF
Calliope
To bring the Calliope more in line with other mobile artillery and less dominant at mid to short range, the following changes have been made:
Near AOE increased from 0.5 to 0.75
I don't really see how buffing the damage of each rocket will make the unit less dominant at mid and sort range.
If one actually want to make less dominant, one should increase minimum range so the weapon can not be used at point blank ranges.
Priest
The Priest has received the following changes to make it less abusive and spammable in team games.
Mid AOE from 0.15 to 0.28
Again I dont really see how alsmot doubling mid range and increasing the entity kill AOE will make the units less abusive.
Priest is one of the hardest artillery piece to counter and it can easily dual with the LeFH, it really does not need more damage potential.
Rear- Echelons / Riflemen
To improve Rear Echelons as a support unit and improve their usefulness at different stages of a match, the following changes have been made:
Smoke moved from Riflemen to Rear Echelon (Lieutenant retains smoke)
Rear Echelon now have access to the Light M7 mine at a cost of 15 Munitions per mine
There is no reason why rack weapon should be better in RE with the vet 1 bonus. The bonus should work similar to Ro.E and affect only the carbines.
RE could become even more useful if the "volley fire" ability become more usable by scaling with veterancy or even being move to vet 1.
Instead to m7 light mine I would suggest moving the doctrinal sandbags and mines to RE.
BRITISH
British Trench
Consider moving trench and sandbags to RO.E.
PLS include a firing angle indicator similar to bunkers for the trenches
Firefly
Due to the Firefly's range and accuracy, when combined with the Comet or when multiple Firefly's are fielded, this combination of tank power can prove to be overly dominate (primarily in team games). To compensate, the following changes have been made:
Accuracy from 0.08/0.07/0.05 to 0.06/0.05/0.4
You probably mean 0.04. That is simply not enough because tank commander increases accuracy and get a veterancy bonus.
A FF with a commander has 97% chance to hit a PZ4 at range 60 and by vet 3 it can hit everything accept kubel with 100%.
In addition FF the furthest mid range than any other TD including JT and Elephant at 45 that should be lowered to 30.
BUG FIXES & Quality of Life Changes
Fixed an issue where OKW starting weapon crew stats were superior to other faction weapon crews, and on-par with mainline infantry
This is not actually a bug but a major nerf especially to hmg34 that get more DPS from its crew at range 35 than from the gun itself. The DPS of gun is so low that a squad can stay under fire for minutes before it start to take casualties.
With change the unit will be extremely difficult to vet when fighting infantry.
If one consider this a "bug" fix one should also fix the other "bugs" plugging this unit like lower buy price but higher reinforcement cost, extremely low far DPS.
@thedarkarmadillo said: @Ober kuble costs less than a con squad but was: faster, more durable, caps faster, can contribute to a fight, no bleed, no fuel cost, but can GIVE 5 fuel when killed, NO BLEED, caps faster, didnt bleed and of course the obvious fact that its a t0 car and doesnt bleed all while being able to inflict bleed.
Very happy with the con changes, but the Ost panther should get a little more than just that reload buff. I think it should get the .65 moving accuracy multiplier at vet 2 if not in the vanilla form (same multiplier the OKW one is losing). OKW has the JP4 to play with against late game armor, Ost needs the panther a lot more for that role. It should get that or a general accuracy buff with vet as it currently has neither.
@1ncendiary_Rounds said:
I don't know why USF deserve mines. They already have access to mines in 4 out of 8 doctrines and demos in 2 of 8 commanders. Has Relic any notion of asymmetrical factions?
Do you? Because the M7 Light AT mine is nothing like any of the mines on any of the other factions (stock or otherwise) and is decidedly the worst. It is the molotov of mines, its cheapness is its most redeeming quality.
All this while we are asking for a Panther buff because for the price, it is slow reloading and inaccuracy on the move, makes it too weak against tanks. It worthless pintle cannot take out inf blobs.
Now without the 10% armor makes no sense against buffed Allies TD. Panther already hard to get vet2? I never see Panther spam? I see M4C spam, i see T34 spam, i see Cromwell spam, but Panther spam??
And wow Jackson get buff? A TD that is fast and accurate and always penetrate armor, now can skirt in and out?
Bad patch man, it may work in 4v4 but 1v1 and 2v2, Axis late tanks give them more chance, now all get nerfed? Wtf? I rather Relic not waste time do this patch.
Relic have you watch latest game cast? Allies are winning more often than Axis.
OKW late armor dont even have much effect against Allies meta. Jackson and SU85 is going to dominate more the weaken panther. Sit back in a line and snipe Axis tank with penetrative shots. yawn.
@eonfigure said:
"Elephant from two-shotting most Allied tanks"
That, does not happen...even at vet 3...
Elephant does 320 damage per shot. Medium tanks have 640 HP. The math isn't that hard to work out.
Same can be said wit SU85, Jackson and Firefly. Spam them, sit in a line, push forward slowly.
At least with Elephant, it is a single slow ass sniper unit. So unless your tanks sit around for it to 2-shot. lol. You just rush it with 3-4 cheap Allies tanks, and you can do mark target, penal satchet, lots of easy snares.
i feel like you guys ignoring me because of my previous discussions but i dont care im gonna voice my opinion anyway
rear echelon smoke sounds a like good idea i can always squeeze a mortar for dispensing smoke on hard points
but of course allow me to vent a little bit here
rifleman right now performs so awful their M1 garands deal 7.99 dps with medicore accuracy sure they can have the fastest rate of fire of 0.48(if you use the veteran training bulletin) but to be honest even with that they simply underwehlming at best for me USF rifleman needs one of the 3 things
1-cost reduction to 260 This to prevent rifleman form being too costly to maintain against cheaper and arguably better infantry germans have
OR
2- have their damage max raised to 10 and DPS of 10.99 at close distance so they would actually threaten german infantry at close distance
OR
3- have their accuracy raised to 0.61/0.80 again same reason as the 2nd
even when equipped with double BARs rifleman simply underwehlming
i dont know about you but current rifleman is even weaker then getting punched by a lightweight boxer
@mrgame2 said:
At least with Elephant, it is a single slow ass sniper unit. So unless your tanks sit around for it to 2-shot. lol. You just rush it with 3-4 cheap Allies tanks, and you can do mark target, penal satchet, lots of easy snares.
You do realize being a single unit is what makes it unfair in team games, right? It's the fact that axis players can buy these single uber AT units that then require the allied players to micro a crazy amount of things at once just to kill a single unit. In the already intense cluster**** that is anything above 1v1, that's simply unfair.
1v1 it's very easy to sneak around the map and get behind these things, and it's also way harder for an axis player to even purchase one. Once you add another player its very hard to pull off any kind of surprise flank that is essentially necessary to kill them. The micro tax they create in team games is insanely unfair, given that their cost is far less punishing because of resource float.
@Eeere said:
Instead of gutting WFA FRPs with the +20% reinforce cost, why not bring the EFAs closer to their level?
That's because EFA do not have FRP?
Ever considered that option?
FRPs are cancer to the meta and extremely unfair, free advantage against EFA factions who always had inferior field presence because of that and because of inferior repair speed.
Now its going to be leveled towards balanced EFA armies instead of OP WFA ones.
That's because EFA do not have FRP?
Ever considered that option?
Yes I did consider that, did you read the rest of my post? lol
They still don't have true FRPs in what I described. Regardless of how I feel about the actual FRPs on the WFA, I don't think gutting or removing them this late into the games life is a good option. I'd rather Relic try to make the EFA base building more modern and less incidental
I should add that I do like the cooldown and timing changes (though its a bit clunky for OKW). I think the reinforcing premium is excessive
Comments
I think the house jumping nerf is a terrible idea as mgs will basically be sentenced to death if they decide to enter a building and the opponent has grenades. They already have long packup times. Maybe the mgs should not be subject to this house jumping nerf at least.
Its not realy a problem with ONE okw panther overperforme, its when they spamed in team games they become a seriously problem. Its as close to a heavy tank as it gets. Theres a reason why they nerfed the comet tank, it was clearly OP when spamed, not so much as just one. Otherwise im glad with the changes and think most of the changed will fit in good.
The reinforce cost + no reinforce when cutoff would have been enough without needing an additional truck. But I'm sure thatll play out in the testing.
640 HP jackson is also a real wtf moment for me given that we're supposed to be adding strategic diversity, not reinforcing allied inf -> TD spam.
That said, you've got more iterations of the patch to go so I'll remain optimistic.
Thank you relic for continuing to support this game. I welcome the upcoming update and hope it improves gameplay.
I also wanted to express that I am a HUGE fan of the garrison changes (some tuning required), squad behaviour efforts (one day you'll win) and standardization with respect to field constructions; I hope my fellow players agree.
My biggest concern for the future: continuing to balance the game at the global level - rather than at the game mode level - will perpetuate the nerfing/buffing cycle indefinitely. For example, having stat tables specific to game modes (1v1 stats differ from 2v2) would allow tweaks where certain units are being a problem in certain game modes. Such a process would be started by having the global unit stats copied into all game mode tables - then tweaked in future balance updates. I understand this may never be possible, but I feel it would allow the satisfaction all of the various gameplay "factions".
Nerfing something like the elephant might be welcomed (and make sense) in the 4v4 arena where up to 4 can exist at once; can ultimately make the unit undesirable in a 1v1 or 2v2 environment.
Speaking strictly as an AI skirmish player, I'm not sure what the FRP problem is, but I'd rather see changes that don't affect manpower costs and cooldown. Cooldown like this just seems to me to be interfering with people trying to play the game. Increased manpower costs just seems to be punishing people who use FRPs.
Instead of increasing manpower costs, how about thinking of something else like slowing the reinforcement rate, with further slowing of reinforcement for units in combat? Perhaps scale whatever the penalty is based on the distance from base, compared to the overall map size. Sure, it's still a punishment for people using FRPs, but seems a bit more realistic to me.
At some point I'd rather not play a game where part of my strategy involves trying to decide where I should retreat based on manpower costs. I already have to do that based on if I think I'll get killed at an FRP. I can use the same logic for reinforcement speed. I'm not trying to perform in-game calculus.
Instead of gutting WFA FRPs with the +20% reinforce cost, why not bring the EFAs closer to their level?
Here's a simple solution: EFA units retreat to the closest base building. They can reinforce from all base buildings currently, so it's not too big a stretch. Maybe lock this ability behind tech or time, but with the relatively short range that might be unnecessary. I say simple, but of course a few adjustments would be in order to fully implement this.
In the case of the Soviets, when there are no wounded in or near the base sector, the medics would prefer to idle at the most recently retreat pathed base building instead of running back and forth from the HQ. In the case of Ostheer, make it so they prefer to retreat to a med bunker if it's in the base sector. Alternatively, and I personally think this is the better solution, if the med bunker is within the base sector, make the German meds copy the Soviet meds in function, preferring to wait at the most relevant building instead of their bunker. Base buildings would need to be able to toggle their not-so-forward retreat points in order to further prevent base clumping issues.
This also adds some extra meaning to base building placement, which currently is a bit incidental, though it has been rectified somewhat with the spawn location change. Maybe it's a stopgap measure, but it makes sense in the context of a faction that places its base buildings. I think it would be a great way to make a currently archaic base system work well.
@thedarkarmadillo You know very well that vs good players kubel spam is a suicide, every faction can handle with this, if the 5 extra fuel is the problem.. i prefer pay cost 15 fuel + 300MP but the old kubel without change, how to supposed OKW to fight vs mass riffles without mg and FRP at the start? with volks? really? relic alway drive the game to be easy for noob players... what about the bren carrier tell me more??
Top ten players in 3v3s and 4v4s often open with 2 kubels. Even top 1v1 players are doing it.
Except that PaulAD pioneered triple Kubel into fusiliers for a reason
A few ideas for the December Balance Patch:
Soviet Penal Battalions: they can either upgrade with 2x anti-tank rifles or a flamethrower. The anti-tank rifles are available initially but the flamethrower requires a Support Weapons Structure.
Soviet T-34/76 and T-34/85 Ramming: At Veterancy 1, ramming causes heavy engine damage instead of immobilization. At Veterancy 2, ramming has a 25% chance of not destroying the turret. At Veterancy 3, ramming has a chance to cause engine damage instead of heavy engine damage.
OKW Obersoldaten: give them a rifle smoke grenade ability that costs 25 munitions. It is a long range grenade that causes no damage but creates a small cloud of smoke upon impact, blocking line of sight. This ability does not reveal the Obersoldaten squad, even if the cloud covers an enemy squad.
Ostheer Wehrmacht Price Premium: cost of Tiger, Elefant, and Panzer IV Command Tank is reduced once either a Support Armor Korps or Heavy Panzer Korps is built.
Fuel & Munitions caches: the first cache you build costs 200 manpower, but any after that will cost 250 manpower. This makes it so you should find a strategic point to set up your initial cache.
"Elephant from two-shotting most Allied tanks"
That, does not happen...even at vet 3...maybe with a Stewart. But not a tank. That change is completely unjustified. You are again catering to newbie players. The elephant and Jadtiger already have inherent crippling weaknesses. If a player cannot exploit them...it's their own fault.
You want to talk about two shotting tanks? Very well, let's go there....
Sticky satchels....THAT two-shots tanks. The fact that this ability is in the game proves something is wrong with our system and community...I cant even wrap my head around how allied fan boys think this is a balanced ability....You want proof? Give this ability to a axis faction. I guarantee youll see it blacklisted in a hurry.
If any other professional gaming community were to see what you guys did with the sticky satchel, Overwatch, Dota2, CS, Halo...they would definately laugh at us for allowing it. It's too powerful and you know it. The soviets already have a fast paced tank cripple in the form of ATnades, this satchel is farce and insult.
You think these are fine?
The teller mine is still one shotting all lights. The bundle nade still any weapon teams bane. Twp on a at gun. The anti tank strafe wich can kill 2 tanks on the first pass. and attack when target is beyond the circle.
Axis have enough toys of their own in this regard.
The at satchal has a short range. Can cause casualties of your own army. Wich other snare/at grenade does that?
Penals dont sprint no more. The ptrs is a warning sign for at satchal in the patch.
Having it requiering ptrs is fine. It having the shorter(st) range is fine. That it can backfire on you is fine.
Now that it will track the target even after it left the range we will see if its fine.
Something is going on really really wrong here. You cant be serious to give Wehrmacht ONLY NERFS and NOT ONE SINGLE BUFF. This is something i cannot believe.
Wehrmacht is by far the weakest faction in the game and gets further nerfs, this is a joke.
The Infantry is by far the weakest and the most expensive over the distance in a game and the medicore P4 and the high priced T4.
When one faction deserves not a single nerf, than its wehrmacht!
"Panther V
As arguably thebest non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2, we felt that the unit offered too much benefit to spam and was increasingly dominate when produced in numbers. To encourage players to diversify their late game tech, we have made the following changes:
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Decreased moving accuracy from 0.65 to 0.5
Increased moving scatter from 1.7 to 2
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed (also affects command Panther)"
First the "best non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2" does not actually mean much since not many units fit the category including the Panther...Compared to what? KT, Churchill, Comet.
The Panther is not main battle tank since its main gun is bad vs soft targets. It is a counter to heavy tanks and it cost as much as most of them.
"spamming" a 200 fuel tank can easily be solved by reducing the return of fuel from caches in larger mode nerfing a specialized unit that is struggling in small mode in not the right direction.
The effectiveness of Panther is already nerfed by the changes in repair, the increase of HP of the jackson and the nerfs to Elephant/JT.
Increasing pop cap to 18 is simply wrong when the tanks it meant to counter have a pop 19 (KV-2,IS-2), Pershing has a pop of 16 and other heavy TD have much lower FF, M36 14 and Su-85 12!!!!
Decreasing accuracy/scatter is also in the wrong direction since the unit is out-ranged and has to be on the move to survive.
Simply removing the 10% armor bonus is again wrong (as it was with extra rifle grenade range) because it mess with the value of the vetted unit. If the bonus is not suited it should be replaced with something else and not simply removed. In addition Panther is a unit with high XP value and disproportional low DPS making hard to vet.
Combat Blitz
+100% accuracy bonus reduced to +20% (affects all OKW vehicles)
Although CB should be toned down a horizontal to all OKW tank is not needed, the ability should/could provide different bonus according to tank type as other similar abilities (blitz/war speed) and/or could scale with veterancy smoothint out spikes in performance.
Sturmtiger
Consider adding some suppression vs infantry
Improving, redesigning or replacing the NahVW Grenade
Panther V
Unlike the OKW Panther, we feel the OST Panther is more or less in a good spot. However, to make it somewhat more reliable in combat, the variable reload time of the main gun has been reduced.
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed
Reload time decreased from 5.8 - 6.7 to 5.2 - 5.6 (reload time does not include wind-up)
The comments about OKW Panther x2. The unit and T4 in general is UP and that is why people play Tiger doctrines, this will probably be the nail in the coffin for T4.
If the unit has the POP increased to 18 it has to become a main battle tank having a dual purpose gun either constantly or with switchable munition ISU-152 style.
Stuka Dive Bomb
* Increase AoE damage multiplier from 1/0.35/0.05 to 1/0.35/0.08
* Increased Munitions cost from 160 to 200
* Removed critical hit modifier
Although removing critical hit modifier is in the right direction the ability is simply not worth 200 mu. It simply does too little damage.
Suggestion:
Increase cooldown the ability can be used to often.
Remove recon planes from doctrines so that it can be used as a combo.
Add utility be giving more damage vs buildings/emplacements. The ability currently does not even hurt a forward assembly.
If one has to increases cost take up to 180
M4C Sherman
The M4C Sherman has been tied to Soviet Tier 4 tech to prevent it from being spammed and to encourage players to diversify their tech.
Now required the Mechanized Armor Kompenya to be constructed.
CP cost decreased to 0
A good change but why not apply the same change to KV-1? Do we really have to wait another 2 years before fixing the calling MBT (main battle tank) meta?
Penal
The Penal Squad has received some minor adjustments to bring it more in line with its cost and to reduce its effectiveness as a powerful generalist unit by offering a more distinct choice between anti-infantry and anti-vehicle.
Since the majority of the community agrees that Penal are OP why don't we actually nerf the unit where it actually OP and not beat around the bush?
In the first major overhaul it was claimed that Penal had to be very good AI because T1 did not provide AT capabilities, it proved disastrous. In the second major overhaul Penal got AT capabilities but their AI (for its time-frame) remained over the top but it was argued that it need to that high because conscripts where UP. In this patch Conscripts are buffed yet the DPS of the Penals remains over the TOP. Why? The main problem with Penal is their DPS for their time frame simply lowered down.
The moving accuracy nerf is correct still is not anywhere near enough. The reinforcement cost will have minimal impact since it can easily be bypassed by merge. The XP value is correct but the vet bonuses continue to remain over top for a unit that arrive so early and has so much DPS. The satchel charge changes are correct but still not enough.
PTRS Ready Aim Time reduced from 2 to 1.25 (affects all PTRS variants)
Since you are changing the PTRS why not fix the inconsistency across the different version.
Even better why not redesign the weapon as dedicated AT weapon that (maybe in some version) has a active mu ability allowing to be used vs infantry.
Dshka
The Dshka HMG has proved to be exceedingly cost effective and thus the adjustments made to the unit below will bring it more in line with its performance and make it less of a spammable unit.
PLS remove the sprint ability as it has been done with other HMGs.
Maxim Suppression Intel Bulletin
Suppression bonus reduced from +5% to +1%
Instead of turning the bulletin to completely useless why not replace it with different property?
As others have already stated, I'm super excited about the continued support for this game at a point where most thought it nought, and while some of these changes are good and makes sense, there are some which.., do not...
1)
The Panther nerf. I only play 1v1s, so I really can't speak on team games, but this change is just the icing on the turd-cake that is Ost tier 4. Why are you so unbelievably adamant about not making that tier viable again?! NOBODY builds it in 1v1 and while it may be a bit viable in team games, why gut it completely for 1v1's?!
I've said it before and I'll say it again; Swap the Panther with the Tiger, up the performance on both(speed and pen for the Panther/accuracy and armor or damage for the Tiger) and up the cost a bit to compensate. That would help out tier 4 tremendously imho, while still keeping the associated doctrines viable if one wants the faster and more reliable Panther.
2)
The Penal satchel.
Mmm, this thing, despite its short range and friendly-fire drawbacks, are still a monster of a snare. Atm, easily the best snare in the game, bar none! The only redeeming factor is that it can be avoided by moving out of range quickly enough. And now you want to add tracking to it while only limiting it to ptrs-penals?! Seeing as ptrs-penals are still pretty fucking dope against infantry, I think I'm just going to call this thing Lucifers Lunchbox from now on...
If you are really serious about putting tracking on it, the damage of it needs to come waaaay down to compensate...
3) Kubel nerf.
It's fine. OKW is in a fine spot atm. They don't need a mechanized roadrunner to further pollute the balance.
4)
Cons buff.
Looong overdue. Everybody have been saying for years that they need buffs, so this is a welcome addition.
Though I can't help but wonder where the buff for the grens are? Everyone who said buff the cons also said buff the grens. They are still as fragile as ever and dies if the wind blows too strong. They certainly need some kind of survival buff as well.
5)
USF mines.
Lol, just Lol. Must this faction have everything??! People, yourself at Relic included have always advocated asymmetrical balance and yet you seem to give the USF everything the other factions also have;
Not enough opening diversity, give them a mortar despite the fact they had as much need of it, as a street hooker has of herpes.
Only one main line infantry unit; better make them steroid-infused cyborgs.
No heavy tank even when they had a plethora of other options; gotta give em' one which combines the best features of the IS-2 and the Tiger.
And now, no stock mines, the one saving grace their opponents has got on them; they gotta have that as well, because fuck you, that's why...
6)
The ISU-152 buff.
I like it. It might actually see some use again, after having been left in the garbage bin for years.
7)
The dushka, maxim and Lend Lease nerfs.
These are good. I like them. They are the main stay of the Soviets and it's getting old.
8)
The heavy TD nerfs.
Once again, you are taking vehicles which are PERFECTLY FINE and gutting them, because of some arbitrary reason. They already have such severe drawbacks that hardly anybody uses them in 1v1. So in order to cater to the team games players, you are intent on doing so at the cost of the 1v1 players..?
I'll properly gather some more thoughts later on, but for now, I like the attention this game is still getting, just wish the scope was a bit bigger tbh.
Here are my issues with the patch:
OKW
Kubelwagon
To decrease the manpower bleed the Kubelwagon can inflict in the early game (primarily vs USF), we have made the following changes:
Decrease rear armor from 4.5 to 1.6
Decrease front armor from 4.5 to 3.5
Increase health form 190 to 240
Why on earth would you do this? The soviets have their early truck and the british have the bren carrier which are both far superior to a kubelwagon. Even 2 kubels would not be able to come close to the bleed of the other units.
Jagdtiger
To decrease the on field dominance of the Jagdtiger against Allied tanks, the unit has received the following changes. To help keep the unit useful vs infantry, the Supporting Fire ability has received some performance enhancements.
Damage reduced from 320 to 300
Accuracy reduced from 0.06/0.05/0.04 to 0.055/0.045/0.03
Range reduced from 85 to 80
Supporting Fire range reduced from 125 to 95
Engine upgrade rotation bonus removed
Pop-cap increased from 21 to 23
Supporting Fire ability now available at Vet 0
Vet 1 replaced with Supporting Fire Barrage shells increased from 3 to 5
Supporting fire changes:
You are taking to much away from the Jagdtiger all at one time. This is a common mistake you regularly make. This unit has major weaknesses which are not being taken into account. Why not just reduce the damage slightly?
Panther V
As arguably the best non-doctrinal heavy tank in COH2, we felt that the unit offered too much benefit to spam and was increasingly dominate when produced in numbers. To encourage players to diversify their late game tech, we have made the following changes:
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Decreased moving accuracy from 0.65 to 0.5
Increased moving scatter from 1.7 to 2
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed (also affects command Panther)
The Panther is not a tank in this game , it is an armoured , reduced range tank destroyer that will lose to a well microed cheaper tank destroyer every time. The panther is terrible against soft targets. Removing the vet 2 bonus is just the icing on the cake .
Sturmtiger
Aside from the abandonment fixes the other changes make no sense. This unit was intended to be high risk high reward. There is no reason to overnerf this with increased cost and reduced damage.
WEHRMACHT
Panther V
Unlike the OKW Panther, we feel the OST Panther is more or less in a good spot. However, to make it somewhat more reliable in combat, the variable reload time of the main gun has been reduced.
Pop-cap increased from 16 to 18
Vet 2 +10 % armor bonus removed
Reload time decreased from 5.8 - 6.7 to 5.2 - 5.6 (reload time does not include wind-up)
The Ost Panther is not in a good spot at all . This is why the majority of the community has been complaining about it for years. Why on earth would you remove its armor bonus and increase pop cap? This unit currently has just 1 purpose which is often negated by much cheaper tank destroyers. It would be best to give Panther good AI as to at least give players an incentive to upgrade to tier 4 because at the moment there isn't one.
SOVIET
Maxim
To make some slight performance improvements to the Maxim HMG, the following changes have been made:
Suppression from 0.00006 to 0.000065.
Nearby suppression from 1.25 to 1.
Ready-Aim Time to 0.125.
Fire-Aim Time to 0.125.
Fire-Aim Time multipliers standardized to 0.5.
Maxim Suppression Intel Bulletin
Suppression bonus reduced from +5% to +1%
No "Slight performance improvements are necessary this unit is a beast with a whopping big crew to boot
Conscript
To make Conscript squads scale better into the mid to late game, as well as, be able to trade better vs comparable Axis squads such as Volksgrenadiers, the following changes have been made:
Damage from 16 to 12
Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.7182821/0.6598548/0.55654425
Near range increased from 0 to 10
PPSH accuracy from reduced from 0.621/0.43/0.2 to 0.5645455/0.3909091/0.181818
Molotov upgrade has been merged with the Anti-tank upgrade at the HQ
Conscripts are one of the most versatile early game infantry units with more abilities than any other.
Orah! - Merge - Build Sandbag - Molotov cocktail - RPG-43 Anti-Tank Grenades , Hit the Dirt! , Trip Wire Flares. The volksgrenadiers you mention have nothing like these. So conscripts now have all those abilities with the added benefit of being on a similar level to volks and grens. All conscripts need are an incremental accuracy increase
Additional--- There has been no mention of partisans. Partisans. Still far to strong for only 210 manpower and the anti tank partisans need to research shrek not just instant pop out of building then destroy a unit in friendly territory.
Additional 2--- Field HQ - Only cap in territory and only by an engineer. There is nothing more ridiculous, unfair and cheesy then a lone conscript squad running into a massive building surrounded by enemies in hostile territory and set up a base with bonuses to all friendly units. Why has this been missed out?
USF
Jackson
The Jackson has received a slight buff to its health to allow players to be a bit more aggressive and utilize its speed to perform more hit and run tactics. Cost increased to match performance.
Health increased from 480 to 640
Fuel increased from 125 to 140
Manpower increased from 350 to 400
Health increase is to much , Jackson already has the range to counter far more expensive tanks . The last thing it needs is a big health buff.
BRITISH
Mortar Pit
The British emplacements and brace are one of the worst culprits in balance issues and astonishingly are left not only untouched but with increased utility. The british mortar pit only costs 400 manpower for 2 mortars and already has a smoke ability along with brace
Additional--- The bofors has not been mentioned despite only costing 280manpower and 30 fuel . This emplacement desperately needs a cost increase as it is far to cost effective.
Addional 2 and alternative, Why not have Brace reduce manpower when used as to prevent spamming brace ?
****Agree with the emplacements issues. ****
Since you have tied Sherman Land Leas to T4, you can then tie T 34/76 to T3. After all, the Wehrmacht has access to Panzer 4 from T3.
Great patch! you came back with Fall Balance Preview Changelog, excellent! There are only one problem, you forgot change the Jagdtiger like the Fall Balance Preview Changelog did it. Because you changed the elephant, but no the Jagdtiger.
Elephant does 320 damage per shot. Medium tanks have 640 HP. The math isn't that hard to work out.
Conscript
To make Conscript squads scale better into the mid to late game, as well as, be able to trade better vs comparable Axis squads such as Volksgrenadiers, the following changes have been made:
Damage from 16 to 12
Accuracy from 0.541/0.495/0.334 to 0.7182821/0.6598548/0.55654425
Near range increased from 0 to 10
PPSH accuracy from reduced from 0.621/0.43/0.2 to 0.5645455/0.3909091/0.181818
Molotov upgrade has been merged with the Anti-tank upgrade at the HQ
Changes to DPS in translate in numbers
New mosin around x100% (range 0) x136% (range 10) x108% (range 20) x90% (range 30)
New PPsh around x91% all ranges.
That roughly translates for a PPsh conscript
x93% (range 0) x99% (range 10) x101.94% (range 20) x90% (range 30).
Although the changes in Mosin other ranges are not problematic at range 10 things become very very problematic.
At range 10-15 a conscripts squad out DPS VG, Grenadier and even pioneers while continuing to have more EHP. Combined with ourah it will create many problems. If Conscripts are to become a close quarter unit they should change weapon type and lose or have ourah redesigned.
Although moving near range to 10 is a step in the correct direction and should be implement to all bolt action/ semi auto weapons giving a bigger advantage to CQ weapons the DPS value at range 10 is simply too high.
The PPSH on the other hand should follow the exact opposite root and have its near range moved from 10 to 0.
Ideal the conscript should not have to mix weapon with different optimum ranges like ppsh and bolt action and have the dotrinal ability either give them 6 ppsh or a number SVTs.
The merge of the abilities at the same cost and time to research is totally uncalled for and will make human wave tactics even more effective. Soviet have cheap teching, flexible teching and a the widest viriety of doctrinal solution. If this change makes to game it should be countered weight by step like:
Increasing research time
and/or increasing cost of T1
and/or adding a tech cost to Penal satchel
and/or adding a cost to PTRS and AT satchel (soviet seem to the only faction that get stock AT weapons with no tech cost).
ISU-152
Pls remove minimum range or make smaller to 2.
Lower price for "Concrete-Piercing" shot and maybe replace the mechanic to be similar to Pershing/FF tulips.
USF
Calliope
To bring the Calliope more in line with other mobile artillery and less dominant at mid to short range, the following changes have been made:
Near AOE increased from 0.5 to 0.75
I don't really see how buffing the damage of each rocket will make the unit less dominant at mid and sort range.
If one actually want to make less dominant, one should increase minimum range so the weapon can not be used at point blank ranges.
Priest
The Priest has received the following changes to make it less abusive and spammable in team games.
Mid AOE from 0.15 to 0.28
Again I dont really see how alsmot doubling mid range and increasing the entity kill AOE will make the units less abusive.
Priest is one of the hardest artillery piece to counter and it can easily dual with the LeFH, it really does not need more damage potential.
Rear- Echelons / Riflemen
To improve Rear Echelons as a support unit and improve their usefulness at different stages of a match, the following changes have been made:
Smoke moved from Riflemen to Rear Echelon (Lieutenant retains smoke)
Rear Echelon now have access to the Light M7 mine at a cost of 15 Munitions per mine
There is no reason why rack weapon should be better in RE with the vet 1 bonus. The bonus should work similar to Ro.E and affect only the carbines.
RE could become even more useful if the "volley fire" ability become more usable by scaling with veterancy or even being move to vet 1.
Instead to m7 light mine I would suggest moving the doctrinal sandbags and mines to RE.
BRITISH
British Trench
Consider moving trench and sandbags to RO.E.
PLS include a firing angle indicator similar to bunkers for the trenches
Firefly
Due to the Firefly's range and accuracy, when combined with the Comet or when multiple Firefly's are fielded, this combination of tank power can prove to be overly dominate (primarily in team games). To compensate, the following changes have been made:
Accuracy from 0.08/0.07/0.05 to 0.06/0.05/0.4
You probably mean 0.04. That is simply not enough because tank commander increases accuracy and get a veterancy bonus.
A FF with a commander has 97% chance to hit a PZ4 at range 60 and by vet 3 it can hit everything accept kubel with 100%.
In addition FF the furthest mid range than any other TD including JT and Elephant at 45 that should be lowered to 30.
BUG FIXES & Quality of Life Changes
Fixed an issue where OKW starting weapon crew stats were superior to other faction weapon crews, and on-par with mainline infantry
This is not actually a bug but a major nerf especially to hmg34 that get more DPS from its crew at range 35 than from the gun itself. The DPS of gun is so low that a squad can stay under fire for minutes before it start to take casualties.
With change the unit will be extremely difficult to vet when fighting infantry.
If one consider this a "bug" fix one should also fix the other "bugs" plugging this unit like lower buy price but higher reinforcement cost, extremely low far DPS.
Very happy with the con changes, but the Ost panther should get a little more than just that reload buff. I think it should get the .65 moving accuracy multiplier at vet 2 if not in the vanilla form (same multiplier the OKW one is losing). OKW has the JP4 to play with against late game armor, Ost needs the panther a lot more for that role. It should get that or a general accuracy buff with vet as it currently has neither.
Do you? Because the M7 Light AT mine is nothing like any of the mines on any of the other factions (stock or otherwise) and is decidedly the worst. It is the molotov of mines, its cheapness is its most redeeming quality.
Why Panther gets nerf? Unbelievable!?
All this while we are asking for a Panther buff because for the price, it is slow reloading and inaccuracy on the move, makes it too weak against tanks. It worthless pintle cannot take out inf blobs.
Now without the 10% armor makes no sense against buffed Allies TD. Panther already hard to get vet2? I never see Panther spam? I see M4C spam, i see T34 spam, i see Cromwell spam, but Panther spam??
And wow Jackson get buff? A TD that is fast and accurate and always penetrate armor, now can skirt in and out?
Bad patch man, it may work in 4v4 but 1v1 and 2v2, Axis late tanks give them more chance, now all get nerfed? Wtf? I rather Relic not waste time do this patch.
Relic have you watch latest game cast? Allies are winning more often than Axis.
OKW late armor dont even have much effect against Allies meta. Jackson and SU85 is going to dominate more the weaken panther. Sit back in a line and snipe Axis tank with penetrative shots. yawn.
Same can be said wit SU85, Jackson and Firefly. Spam them, sit in a line, push forward slowly.
At least with Elephant, it is a single slow ass sniper unit. So unless your tanks sit around for it to 2-shot. lol. You just rush it with 3-4 cheap Allies tanks, and you can do mark target, penal satchet, lots of easy snares.
i feel like you guys ignoring me because of my previous discussions but i dont care im gonna voice my opinion anyway
rear echelon smoke sounds a like good idea i can always squeeze a mortar for dispensing smoke on hard points
but of course allow me to vent a little bit here
rifleman right now performs so awful their M1 garands deal 7.99 dps with medicore accuracy sure they can have the fastest rate of fire of 0.48(if you use the veteran training bulletin) but to be honest even with that they simply underwehlming at best for me USF rifleman needs one of the 3 things
1-cost reduction to 260 This to prevent rifleman form being too costly to maintain against cheaper and arguably better infantry germans have
OR
2- have their damage max raised to 10 and DPS of 10.99 at close distance so they would actually threaten german infantry at close distance
OR
3- have their accuracy raised to 0.61/0.80 again same reason as the 2nd
even when equipped with double BARs rifleman simply underwehlming
i dont know about you but current rifleman is even weaker then getting punched by a lightweight boxer
You do realize being a single unit is what makes it unfair in team games, right? It's the fact that axis players can buy these single uber AT units that then require the allied players to micro a crazy amount of things at once just to kill a single unit. In the already intense cluster**** that is anything above 1v1, that's simply unfair.
1v1 it's very easy to sneak around the map and get behind these things, and it's also way harder for an axis player to even purchase one. Once you add another player its very hard to pull off any kind of surprise flank that is essentially necessary to kill them. The micro tax they create in team games is insanely unfair, given that their cost is far less punishing because of resource float.
That's because EFA do not have FRP?
Ever considered that option?
FRPs are cancer to the meta and extremely unfair, free advantage against EFA factions who always had inferior field presence because of that and because of inferior repair speed.
Now its going to be leveled towards balanced EFA armies instead of OP WFA ones.
Yes I did consider that, did you read the rest of my post? lol
They still don't have true FRPs in what I described. Regardless of how I feel about the actual FRPs on the WFA, I don't think gutting or removing them this late into the games life is a good option. I'd rather Relic try to make the EFA base building more modern and less incidental
I should add that I do like the cooldown and timing changes (though its a bit clunky for OKW). I think the reinforcing premium is excessive