DBP Balance Feedback

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Comments

  • #962
    2 years ago

    @KiethSomataw99 said:
    I was a bit unhappy with cost of caches being increased to 250 manpower from 200. I had an idea of a change that makes it a middle approach and adds a little more strategy.

    The first cache (either munitions or fuel) costs 200 manpower for each player, subsequent caches cost 250 manpower. That cost of caches will rise to 250 the moment you order construction of one cache but will drop back to 200 manpower if cancelled. This encourages players to pick one territory point as a good point to secure supply lines and makes it a little harder for supplies to be cut off early game.

    Why are my ideas so disliked and given no feedback? Even after modifying them to reduce their size.

  • #963
    2 years ago
    HardyStyledHardyStyl… MoscowPosts: 24

    Churchill Crocodile nerf totally killed this tank as a unit. Tested multiply times, face to face fight vs 1 p4 and for some reason new armor just not working right so that p4 has chances to kill it 1v1 in face. 2-3 p4 rush gives zero chance to survive even with support, because they penetrate like 70% of a time. Stug 3 does that 80% and OST Panther penetrates it 90% of a time in a face. And i'm not talking about real situations where it can be easily flanked. It just can't do anything for that price comparing to other cheapier units that are already on a field to that time. Btw repair rate also making repairing this tank into time wasting.

  • #964
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    Crocodile is an anti-infantry tank, that's what the flamethrower is for. If you're having trouble with tanks build Fireflys

  • #965
    2 years ago

    The fact that OKW can no longer reinforce at a command post unless the point is secure is, frankly, faction breaking.

  • #966
    2 years ago
    If you take a look at all the flamethrower units and figure out how long they will survive against AT you will see the churchill does alright
  • #967
    2 years ago

    @redCOMET said:
    The fact that OKW can no longer reinforce at a command post unless the point is secure is, frankly, faction breaking.

    Like breaking as UKF never has been able to reinforce from a cutoff territory, or with USF's Ambulance. UKF's forward assembly is pretty fragly as well and get destroyed easy compared to OKW's command post that has plenty of health, making it way less risky to leave unguarded for cathcing back a point if cutoff.

  • #968
    2 years ago
    > @mrdjjag81 said:
    > @redCOMET said:
    > The fact that OKW can no longer reinforce at a command post unless the point is secure is, frankly, faction breaking.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Like breaking as UKF never has been able to reinforce from a cutoff territory, or with USF's Ambulance. UKF's forward assembly is pretty fragly as well and get destroyed easy compared to OKW's command post that has plenty of health, making it way less risky to leave unguarded for cathcing back a point if cutoff.

    Its not QUITE that easy, usf can just...move the ambo and the forward assembly is cheap enough to build another if NEEDED plus add in chaches being able to secure cut offs as well....

    I think the 75% reinforcement time ans maybe a small reinforcement premium (+10%?) If the med truck is cut off would be incentive enough to reconnect without making the inability to reinforce on field anywhere else too debilitating.
  • #969
    2 years ago

    Like breaking as UKF never has been able to reinforce from a cutoff territory, or with USF's Ambulance. UKF's forward assembly is pretty fragly as well and get destroyed easy compared to OKW's command post that has plenty of health, making it way less risky to leave unguarded for catching back a point if cutoff.

    Nah....In case of issues OKW loses BASE, not only FRP. That is, ability to produce specific units. And with late and costly FRP option, no decent MG, no caches to secure points, very late Luchs, OKW has to either protect multiple spots (truck and chain of points) or set the base in easily identifiable place. And be focused on base building INSTEAD of being aggressive. Changes with OKW FRP effectively castrated this fraction, it is AGAINST its claimed characteristic. And with changes in OKW armor, its no more late game power horse neither.
    I really DON'T like the heading Relic apparently took with patches. All fractions bleed into one ... It will end up with yet another Starcraft clone soon...

  • #970
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,672

    @Slonek said:

    Like breaking as UKF never has been able to reinforce from a cutoff territory, or with USF's Ambulance. UKF's forward assembly is pretty fragly as well and get destroyed easy compared to OKW's command post that has plenty of health, making it way less risky to leave unguarded for catching back a point if cutoff.

    Nah....In case of issues OKW loses BASE, not only FRP. That is, ability to produce specific units. And with late and costly FRP option, no decent MG, no caches to secure points, very late Luchs, OKW has to either protect multiple spots (truck and chain of points) or set the base in easily identifiable place. And be focused on base building INSTEAD of being aggressive. Changes with OKW FRP effectively castrated this fraction, it is AGAINST its claimed characteristic. And with changes in OKW armor, its no more late game power horse neither.
    I really DON'T like the heading Relic apparently took with patches. All fractions bleed into one ... It will end up with yet another Starcraft clone soon...

    And which units out of battlegroup you usually spam to be concerned about it?
    Searchlights?
    250?
    ISG?

    Sorry, but nothing out of BG HQ is spammable and losing ability temporarily to do so is irrelevant.
    MG is decent for its price.
    If you feel like you need to secure points as OKW, pick luftwaffe doctrine and build emplacements which cost just as much.

    Barely anyone in high level uses OKW trucks forward, so its not really relevant if FRP was nerfed, only low skill level cheeze and team games got addressed.

    And OKW is NOT supposed to be late game power house.
    No faction is supposed to excel in late game.
    Their armor functions perfectly fine and does what is intended to, you're simply no longer getting it away with panther spam and considering P4 and JP4 instead is actually an option for you.

    OKW post patch is FINE, learn to play.
    I'm saying this as top 100 2v2 okw player with 84% win ratio.

    STOP complaining about balance, if you can't get reliably to top 200 or with a bit of stubbornness to top 100, your problems does NOT lie in balance people.

  • #971
    2 years ago

    So in your opinion 201st player is a looser?? And by a chance you've climbed up the ladder after patch? Sorry, but these arguments are childish...there will ALWAYS be a base of different level players. Latest changes made FRP MUCH MORE time consuming and costly...and I DON'T want to be forced to pick up doctrine and spend extra resources just to cope with that. For me this is a drastic change in whole game style and pleasure I had so far. And please read a little more carefully...I didn't complain about not being able to win - but about changing fraction pace and eliminating much of it uniqueness. And I didn't say anything about spamming units - but not being able to produce ISGs for instance IS big drawback. If you see usefulness of the base truck only thru spammable units it may produce, well...what can I say?
    As with ANY drastic change, Relic just showed how much game was unbalanced / wrong so far...or they just selected their "community representatives" badly. And, as ALWAYS with the Relic, tons of errors/bugs/stupid mistakes/things-not-considered-as-problem-before... this is just BAD. Quality of their work is TRAGIC.

  • #972
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,672
    edited December 2017

    @Slonek said:
    So in your opinion 201st player is a looser?? And by a chance you've climbed up the ladder after patch?

    I'm using ranks as estimate of player skill, and ranks 200-400 don't really have that much skill fluctuation and are more leveled then 200-100. And yes, I did not lost a singular game post patch.

    Sorry, but these arguments are childish...there will ALWAYS be a base of different level players.

    And that is exactly my point.
    Your pov on balance is 100% dependent on your very own skill level and the lower your skill level is, the more you see every singular unit as OP because you simply can't deal with it as someone who can play properly. If you can't reliably reach rank 150-300, then balance is NOT primary concern for you, your skill is.

    If you can't play on high enough level for balance to matter, then you're not able to provide accurate balance feedback.

    Latest changes made FRP MUCH MORE time consuming and costly...and I DON'T want to be forced to pick up doctrine and spend extra resources just to cope with that.

    And that was exactly because it was too quick and too cost effective, allowing for quick steamrolls within lower skill brackets, which meant a player with lower skill could beat player with higher skill exclusively to FRP crutch. It was completely dominating factor in lower skill and team games and still had very meaningful impact in higher skill.

    For me this is a drastic change in whole game style and pleasure I had so far. And please read a little more carefully...I didn't complain about not being able to win - but about changing fraction pace and eliminating much of it uniqueness. And I didn't say anything about spamming units - but not being able to produce ISGs for instance IS big drawback. If you see usefulness of the base truck only thru spammable units it may produce, well...what can I say?

    Nothing from its uniqueness was eliminated, it was simply made less of a no-brainer choice.
    It costs just as much as it did and does exactly the same thing it did - simply slower now, you'll still saving much more time then if you run all the way from the base back.

    If you're going for ISGs, you'll likely have 1-2 already by the time opponent will be able to threaten your BF HQ, unless you've set it up right next to middle VP or something and I highly doubt you'll ever want or need more then 1-2 ISGs.

    As with ANY drastic change, Relic just showed how much game was unbalanced / wrong so far...or they just selected their "community representatives" badly. And, as ALWAYS with the Relic, tons of errors/bugs/stupid mistakes/things-not-considered-as-problem-before... this is just BAD. Quality of their work is TRAGIC.

    Firstly, its not relic who did the changes, its the modders on behalf of relic.
    The modders did things I don't agree with as well, but on the long run its mostly improvements.
    The period of tons of errors, bugs and mistakes was couple of months we had DPB in testing, if you contributed, that's great, if you didn't, that's on you.

    While the modder patches do bring much more drastic changes then relic randomness, contrary to the latter we DO have an impact on the changes and bugs by providing feedback and bug reports for them to address.

    You should've been this active when DBP was in making, right now its not really useful as things are live now.

  • #973
    2 years ago
    HardyStyledHardyStyl… MoscowPosts: 24

    @Lazarus написал:
    Crocodile is an anti-infantry tank, that's what the flamethrower is for. If you're having trouble with tanks build Fireflys

    It's antiinfantry breakthrough tank for 230 fuel and 600+ mp. So it SUPPOSE to tank up shots, no? For that price it's totally underperforming for that price.

  • #974
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @HardyStyled said:

    @Lazarus написал:
    Crocodile is an anti-infantry tank, that's what the flamethrower is for. If you're having trouble with tanks build Fireflys

    It's antiinfantry breakthrough tank for 230 fuel and 600+ mp. So it SUPPOSE to tank up shots, no? For that price it's totally underperforming for that price.

    It is supposed to do that, and no for that price it's not totally underperforming at all. You're not supposed to be able to just leave it unsupported and roll through a line without suffering consequences. Bring some AT and Panzers and Panthers won't bother you.

  • #975
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,672

    @Lazarus said:

    @HardyStyled said:

    @Lazarus написал:
    Crocodile is an anti-infantry tank, that's what the flamethrower is for. If you're having trouble with tanks build Fireflys

    It's antiinfantry breakthrough tank for 230 fuel and 600+ mp. So it SUPPOSE to tank up shots, no? For that price it's totally underperforming for that price.

    It is supposed to do that, and no for that price it's not totally underperforming at all. You're not supposed to be able to just leave it unsupported and roll through a line without suffering consequences. Bring some AT and Panzers and Panthers won't bother you.

    KV-8 seems to be doing the job better really.

    Croc is really weird.

  • #976
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @Katitof said:

    @Lazarus said:

    @HardyStyled said:

    @Lazarus написал:
    Crocodile is an anti-infantry tank, that's what the flamethrower is for. If you're having trouble with tanks build Fireflys

    It's antiinfantry breakthrough tank for 230 fuel and 600+ mp. So it SUPPOSE to tank up shots, no? For that price it's totally underperforming for that price.

    It is supposed to do that, and no for that price it's not totally underperforming at all. You're not supposed to be able to just leave it unsupported and roll through a line without suffering consequences. Bring some AT and Panzers and Panthers won't bother you.

    KV-8 seems to be doing the job better really.

    Croc is really weird.

    It depends entirely on the situation. If you're facing a literal Pak wall, the KV-8 wins hands down because 1, it comes out earlier and can possibly hit the wall before it's ready and 2, has a turret to circle strafe.

    The Croc will rock all other situations though, and while it won't be significant it can contribute to an armored fight. It's mostly for using its durability to quickly evaporate a squad and back off before the local TDs can deal significant damage (of which it can take plenty).

    People just need to stop using it like it's release croc and they'll get the results they want out of it.

  • #977
    2 years ago

    @redCOMET said:
    The fact that OKW can no longer reinforce at a command post unless the point is secure is, frankly, faction breaking.

    Care to explain how? Ambulance works the same way....

  • #978
    2 years ago
    HardyStyledHardyStyl… MoscowPosts: 24

    @Lazarus написал:

    @HardyStyled said:

    @Lazarus написал:
    Crocodile is an anti-infantry tank, that's what the flamethrower is for. If you're having trouble with tanks build Fireflys

    It's antiinfantry breakthrough tank for 230 fuel and 600+ mp. So it SUPPOSE to tank up shots, no? For that price it's totally underperforming for that price.

    It is supposed to do that, and no for that price it's not totally underperforming at all. You're not supposed to be able to just leave it unsupported and roll through a line without suffering consequences. Bring some AT and Panzers and Panthers won't bother you.

    Sure. In that game I first encountered with this, I had 3 squads of AT tommys nearby, but damage dealing in face from 3 p4 was so big, that snearing and damage to that p4 was not enough to force enemy to fall back. SO yeah, not UNDERPERFORMING at all. It even can't tank shots with 290 front armor versus p4 main guns with 120 penetration. L2P issue, sure. It is better to invest in double FF for almost same price or 2 churchill or "insert any other UKF tank" and it will operate better on a field.

  • #979
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,672

    3 P4s against anything is pretty significant really.
    Even IS-2 would feel it in a slug fest.

  • #980
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @HardyStyled said:

    Sure. In that game I first encountered with this, I had 3 squads of AT tommys nearby, but damage dealing in face from 3 p4 was so big, that snearing and damage to that p4 was not enough to force enemy to fall back. SO yeah, not UNDERPERFORMING at all. It even can't tank shots with 290 front armor versus p4 main guns with 120 penetration. L2P issue, sure. It is better to invest in double FF for almost same price or 2 churchill or "insert any other UKF tank" and it will operate better on a field.

    Ugh. Bring some real AT instead of spamming call ins with AT rifles. Buy an AT Gun or a Firefly. Put some effort in. You can invest in double FF if you want, and then not get the flamethrower and be completely vulnerable to infantry. You can invest in 2 churchills if you want, and be completely vulnerable to TDs.

    Use combined arms, and the right tool for the right job.

  • #981
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @redCOMET said:
    The fact that OKW can no longer reinforce at a command post unless the point is secure is, frankly, faction breaking.

    Care to explain how? Ambulance works the same way....

    Well, the ambulance is mobile...

    But no, it's not faction breaking at all. It's low skill blob breaking, and that's a positive change.

  • #982
    2 years ago
    290 armour vs 120 pen is what we on the forum call RNG. Its less than 1/2 chance to pen on a unit with a nut> @Lazarus said:
    > @HardyStyled said:
    >
    > Sure. In that game I first encountered with this, I had 3 squads of AT tommys nearby, but damage dealing in face from 3 p4 was so big, that snearing and damage to that p4 was not enough to force enemy to fall back. SO yeah, not UNDERPERFORMING at all. It even can't tank shots with 290 front armor versus p4 main guns with 120 penetration. L2P issue, sure. It is better to invest in double FF for almost same price or 2 churchill or "insert any other UKF tank" and it will operate better on a field.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Ugh. Bring some real AT instead of spamming call ins with AT rifles. Buy an AT Gun or a Firefly. Put some effort in. You can invest in double FF if you want, and then not get the flamethrower and be completely vulnerable to infantry. You can invest in 2 churchills if you want, and be completely vulnerable to TDs.
    >
    > Use combined arms, and the right tool for the right job.

    Look pal if i wanted to use combined arms why would i have bought a WFA? hmmmm? Yea thats what i thought. I want to build 1 type of infantry and have it do all the jobs i need for the whole game with the utmost efficiency and i expect my tanks to do the same!
  • #983
    2 years ago
    > @Lazarus said:
    > Well, the ambulance is mobile...

    And can be killed by small arms, so I think the point stands. You're right tho, It's definitely a blob killing change; so that someone finds it to be gamebreaking speaks to how infused blobbing is into the meta.
  • #984
    2 years ago

    Hey anyone and everyone. I had to register and all that just to ask this question. Am i the only one whos entire COH 2 is unplayable now since December patch? Every game i load up, vs AI, Automatch, Custom games etc. All of them BUGSPLAT now, it's very frustrating having your favorite game turn to an unplayable piece of trash and no one mentioning themselves having the same problem. Any feedback would be great, iI waited for a new quick fix patch for maybe others suffering the same problem. But no nothing.

  • #985
    2 years ago

    @Toomes said:
    Hey anyone and everyone. I had to register and all that just to ask this question. Am i the only one whos entire COH 2 is unplayable now since December patch?

    I never use to play against AI, but in terms of facing other human brains i think the game never felt better for the last couple of 3 years. So no, i think its better now than it never been.

  • #986
    2 years ago
    HardyStyledHardyStyl… MoscowPosts: 24

    I know that you all are pros and top 10 players knowing what to right in every situation. This is how forum works, just dislike the post and tell something smart, like, use COMBINED ARMS on allies and don't spam call-ins. Nice one, when Axis meta right now is just spam G43 and from my investigation british combined arms can't do shit if you just not spam infantry like an idiot. I played a lot of games on that faction since patch came out in almost every game mode, testing this units changes comparing to other gamestyles and using different build orders to understand. And I'm telling you that Crocodile is UNDERPERFORMING comparing to same or a bit higher price units especially in mass modes. I just gave real feedback and not some baby rages here, I don't need your advises on how I need to play this game, thx. This is up to balance makers to look at this situation and make final decision.

  • #987
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,672
    edited December 2017

    If you're losing to gren spam, then "git gud" is probably the best advise you can get without you providing any replays...

  • #988
    2 years ago

    @mrdjjag81 said:

    @Toomes said:
    Hey anyone and everyone. I had to register and all that just to ask this question. Am i the only one whos entire COH 2 is unplayable now since December patch?

    I never use to play against AI, but in terms of facing other human brains i think the game never felt better for the last couple of 3 years. So no, i think its better now than it never been.

    Did you read what i said? It's unplayable because it crashes. Id love to try out this new patch but the game does not work anymore from it it crashes

  • #989
    2 years ago

    @HardyStyled написал:
    Nice one, when Axis meta right now is just spam G43 and from my investigation british combined arms can't do shit if you just not spam infantry like an idiot.

    If I understand right, u are losing to new Jaeger infantry doctrine where 3 other types of units are needed to combine for "dominating" wih G43s, as Pgrens with G43, couple of grenadier G43 squads and new Jaeger infantry 5 man squad.
    As UKF player u can deal with them with 2/3 double bren 5man IS squad + vickers. If u don't have so "strong" (rly, this days are days of 5 or even 6 tommie squads, they do not require any kind of support to deal with anything that axis can bring in the start) infantry build, u can pick a centaur (it can solo any blob what wehrmacht can even bring) or even two of them (they are quiet cheap) and build 2 ATG to be sure that no kind of PIV ot Stug will try to get em down. That's all.
    If even those kind of tools are not on your favor pick a doctrine with vickers K LMGs, they will outclass even combined LMG42/G43 blobs. Also this doctrine includes your loved Crocodile.

    I played a lot of games on that faction since patch came out in almost every game mode, testing this units changes comparing to other gamestyles and using different build orders to understand. And I'm telling you that Crocodile is UNDERPERFORMING comparing to same or a bit higher price units especially in mass modes. I just gave real feedback and not some baby rages here, I don't need your advises on how I need to play this game, thx. This is up to balance makers to look at this situation and make final decision.

    Quiet abusive speech, but saying that unit what affect mass retreating of even armed with panzerschrecks infantry squads "underperforms" is quiet... Weird.

  • #990
    2 years ago

    @Toomes said:
    It's unplayable because it crashes. Id love to try out this new patch but the game does not work anymore from it it crashes

    I did have a weird bugsplat yesterday. It was after the game ended and I had to re-launch but it was just the once. I've been able to play otherwise.

  • #991
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    edited December 2017

    @HardyStyled said:
    I know that you all are pros and top 10 players knowing what to right in every situation. This is how forum works, just dislike the post and tell something smart, like, use COMBINED ARMS on allies and don't spam call-ins.

    Oh, okay well we-

    @HardyStyled said:
    I just gave real feedback and not some baby rages here, I don't need your advises on how I need to play this game, thx.

    Oh. Oh no.

    @HardyStyled said:
    Nice one, when Axis meta right now is just spam G43 and from my investigation british combined arms can't do shit if you just not spam infantry like an idiot. I played a lot of games on that faction since patch came out in almost every game mode, testing this units changes comparing to other gamestyles and using different build orders to understand. And I'm telling you that Crocodile is UNDERPERFORMING comparing to same or a bit higher price units especially in mass modes. I just gave real feedback and not some baby rages here, I don't need your advises on how I need to play this game, thx. This is up to balance makers to look at this situation and make final decision.

    Right - and I've done nothing but play UKF and OKW in this patch because playing anything else is intentionally handicapping yourself, and I'M telling YOU that Crocodile is NOT UNDERPERFORMING comparing to same or a bit higher price units. So. One of us must be giving the wrong feedback. I wouldn't hinge your hopes on the balance team, given they're the ones who decided the Crocodile needed a nerf to begin with, and yes - you clearly need advise on how to play the game, and with all good nature I do encourage you to post some replays in the strategy section so someone can teach you which skills you need to improve to perform better as a player.

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