DBP Balance Feedback

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Comments

  • #92
    10 months ago
    bloberblober Posts: 13
    edited November 2017

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    @blober and how many centaur vs t34/85s? Production numbers dont mean anything for balance

    More t34/76 than 85, 35 000 against 29 000 so...

  • #93
    10 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,437

    @SoESturmpanther said:

    • Sturmtiger changes
      I don't know right now the damage from the avre. But when we reduce the damage of the Sturmtiger, one should know about the reloading time then. To balance avre and Sturmtiger

    ST got much greater AoE as well as range, allowing it to shoot from FoW cover, which AVRE can not.
    Only arty can decrew ST as well now and with a low chance on top, so that is your reload buff.
    The thing can still erase any and all weapon teams from cover of FoW.

  • #94
    10 months ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited November 2017

    @Reichsgarde said:
    First of all, I am not entirely sure how Relic expects us to use Sturmpionier squads aggressively if they are not buffing their received accuracy bonuses or their firepower. Relic, you do know that Sturmpioniers are particularly vulnerable to focus fire? They are expensive to reinforce and they will be wiped out almost instantaneously if they try to be aggressive. (Speaking of infantry received accuracy, I want to ask, why are British infantry sections so hard to kill?)

    The actual problem with sturms are that they vet up far too slowly. Also sappers definitely are op since they have 0.8 RA at 210 mp and can get 5th man. Sappers need a price increase to at least 240.

  • #95
    10 months ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 281

    I also dont like Relic keeps harmonising the factions, whats with making sturm samey? We want asymmetrical factions buds!

    This patch is not good, it is never good to change units to accommodate match types...instead relic should think of changing the shared resources, the maps points, the caches when it comes to 4v4, heck, make good maps that work better on large games.

    Panther nerf + Jackson buff, lets bet 2 jacksons will either snipe the panther or flank it easily.

    Panther needs accuracy buff + increase axis pintle mg rof.

  • #96
    10 months ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited November 2017

    @Katitof said:

    @SoESturmpanther said:

    • Sturmtiger changes
      I don't know right now the damage from the avre. But when we reduce the damage of the Sturmtiger, one should know about the reloading time then. To balance avre and Sturmtiger

    ST got much greater AoE as well as range, allowing it to shoot from FoW cover, which AVRE can not.
    Only arty can decrew ST as well now and with a low chance on top, so that is your reload buff.
    The thing can still erase any and all weapon teams from cover of FoW.

    Haha you call that a reload buff?! Just like how you call a BIG nerf for riflemen simply because they can't double upgrade m1919 when most players just double bar everything. Or when Relic called sharing RA bonuses between vet 1 and 2 for pgrens a buff. Simply insubstantial. And even then, you can still upgrade with one bar and one m1919. Typical Katitof. Typical allied bias. AVRE behaves like a vet 5 ST. It makes up for the smaller AoE with more health, faster reload and reload on the move and can still one shot mediums. If ST is getting nerfed (which I completely agree) the AVRE should be brought in line in some way. Just not sure how exactly.

  • #97
    10 months ago

    Med packs for Ostheer should either be cheaper (10 munis) or applying heals should not restrict movement and/or heal while in combat. Paying more than OKW for heals should mean that the healing should be better but right now the micro required for the heals is worse. OKW can just grab and go but Ost needs to do more work.

  • #98
    10 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited November 2017

    1300 Tiger I (485 Tiger II) versus 1200 Comets. So it is still more realistic to have multible Tiger I than Comets. Also Tiger I was developed for the eastern front and was on battlefeld BEFORE Panther.

    Tiger I in T4 instead of Panther would give Ost a reason to build T4 again. A unit that is hard to be spamed because of price and requiremented micro. Tiger needs love to work, it is a "larger" Comet with less abilities which is easier to counter because of bad speed and engine-damage of doom. BUT it would will give Ostheer better mainstay.
    So Panther for Ostheer can become an alternative like Soviet T34/85 in some doctrines. Maybe redesign the Panther and make it more like a Jackson.

    Make Ostwind T4 and change it with Brummbär T3. Give it stats of OKW Schwere and remove the bulletin of MG-bow suppression. (This would compensate the fact that I want to change the MG42 with a MG34)

    etc.


    Alternative Tech for Ostheer:

    T0: 200mp Pio, 240mp Gren
    T1: 240mp MG34, 240mp Mortar, 360mp Sniper
    T2: 340mp PGr, 320mp PaK40, 250mp|30fuel "222", 200mp|30fuel "251"
    T3: StuG III, Panzer IV, Brummbär
    T4: Ostwind, Tiger I, Panzerwerfer

    Pio and Weapon-crews:
    K98 instead of MP40. (Same stats as new Cons)

    Gren:
    T0: 20mun M24-grenade-ability
    T1: 20mun Faust-ability
    T2: 30mun Rifle-grenade-ability. *60mun LMG42-uprgade
    T3: *50mp|20mun Sturmführer-Upgrade (the upgraded unit gets a 5th man with MP40)

    PGr:
    Make the Panzerschreck upgrade multible: 60mun for 1st Schreck, 60mun for 2nd Schreck.

    Osttruppen:
    Give them sand-bags. *****

    Assault-Officer (Artillery-Officer)
    Give him passive Vet like 251 or Kübelwagen.

    ***** REMOVE trenches from ALL commanders, because they are simply bad designed. (Also for Brits!). Give Germans "Hull-down" instead. (Community-Commander gets Command-Tank4 instead)

    ***** REMOVE the mechanized-gren-group and replace it with the mechanized-Pgr-group or Sdkfz251-mortar.

    BUFF Gustav: Make its aoe-effect like old Stuka to make it more different to US 5*240mm-barrage. <3


    Redesign UKF abilities and remove all its auto-detecting stuff.

    -Make "anti-building-flame" like Soviet "incandiary-arty" so it needs recoon.
    -Precision-barrage needs active recoon.
    -Artillery-cover needs active recoon like Stuka-close-air-support.

    Bofors should become a Schwere-Colone, it is OP like hell now. This would give nice supression and decent AI.

    Give Vickers same stats as Maxim, it is OP as hell. Much too high DPS of
    7.33 / 34.86 versus 3.00 / 11.42 of the MG34.


    OKW

    Remove Volks and replace them complete with Panzerfüsiliers (Change the unit-stats with Volks one, so they become more expensive and less cost effective). Volks will live on as model of weapon-crews. (Give Breakthrough-Commander recoup-losses instead)

    Give the incadiary-grenade to Sturmpios (Remove the Vet3 stun-grenade).

    Field-defence bunker should get changed with Concrete one!

  • #99
    10 months ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    > @Widerstreit said:
    > 1300 Tiger I (485 Tiger II) versus 1200 Comets. So it is still more realistic to have multible Tiger I than Comets. Also Tiger I was developed for the eastern front and was on battlefeld BEFORE Panther.
    >
    > Tiger I in T4 instead of Panther would give Ost a reason to build T4 again. A unit that is hard to be spamed because of price and requiremented micro. Tiger needs love to work, it is a "larger" Comet with less abilities which is easier to counter because of bad speed and engine-damage of doom. BUT it would will give Ostheer better mainstay.
    > So Panther for Ostheer can become an alternative like Soviet T34/85 in some doctrines. Maybe redesign the Panther and make it more like a Jackson.
    >
    > Make Ostwind T4 and change it with Brummbär T3. Give it stats of OKW Schwere and remove the bulletin of MG-bow suppression.
    >
    > etc.
    >
    > Alternative Tech for Ostheer:
    >
    > T0: 200mp Pio, 240mp Gren
    > T1: 240mp MG34, 240mp Mortar, 360mp Sniper
    > T2: 340mp PGr, 320mp PaK40, 250mp|30fuel "222", 200mp|30fuel "251"
    > T3: StuG III, Panzer IV, Brummbär
    > T4: Ostwind, Tiger I, Panzerwerfer
    >
    > Pio and Weapon-crews:
    > K98 instead of MP40. (Same stats as new Cons)
    >
    > Gren:
    > T0: 20mun M24-grenade-ability
    > T1: 20mun Faust-ability
    > T2: 30mun Rifle-grenade-ability. *60mun LMG42-uprgade
    > T3: *50mp|20mun Sturmführer-Upgrade (the upgraded unit gets a 5th man with MP40)
    >
    > Osttruppen:
    > Give them sand-bags and remove the trench from ALL commanders, because they are simply bad designed. (Also for Brits!). Give Germans "Hull-down" instead.

    On board with everything you said except the mg34 change.
    The mg34 sucks big hairy donkey balls while the mg42 is pretty fucking great! The Ost NEEDS a great mg to counter to blobs of doom that the allies are currently fielding...
  • #100
    10 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,027
    edited November 2017

    @Reichsgarde said:
    One more thing, I just cannot understand why Relic thinks that Wehrmacht and OKW units are overperforming. Why don't you guys sit down and play against an equally-skilled USF/UKF/Soviet opponent? Let's see if you guys still think the same way.

    I am so lost on this logic that appears in so many posts here. Since when are we just flat-nerfing entire factions? You make it sound like everything on Ostheer's roster is getting nerfed. The elefant and the Panther are the only units getting touched so far, and the only things the Panther is losing is a broken veterancy bonus and its popcap of 16, and its trading it for a buff it needs. The elefant is just losing 20 damage....

    SCAS and the Stuka bomb are by far two of the most overpowered abilities in the game. That does not mean Relic thinks Whermacht is OP, it means Relic thinks that those 2 abilties are broken..... SCAS is way better than P47s, and costs less. The stuka bomb was ninja-buffed without explanation, and now its finally being corrected.

    So tired of everyone looking at the changes to individual units and just deciding it means 1 faction is getting better or worse. People have been asking for Riflemen to lose their smoke forever, and now that its happening I see almost no one mentioning it. That's HUGE for Ostheer, now that Riflemen can't just smoke the vital MG42.

    @mrgame2 said:
    Panther nerf + Jackson buff, lets bet 2 jacksons will either snipe the panther or flank it easily.

    800 Manpower and 280 fuel vs. 490 manpower and 175 fuel. The problem is what exactly?

  • #101
    10 months ago
    bloberblober Posts: 13

    You right, but Panther armor and Tiger armor are unrealistic, you can't do anything against sniper allies tanks or allies AT

  • #102
    10 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited November 2017

    @Baálthazor schrieb:

    You don't need the MG42 at start, the MG34 is good enough, you need usefull Grens instead. For late-game you need a usefull Ostwind as supression platform.

    EDIT: A 2nd ability like M24 at T0 would Give them a huge buff. Also a 5th man upgrade at T3 would move them into light.

    @blober schrieb:

    That is why they all need to get nerft to Panther-guns stats. They are all too accurate and make WAY to much damage.

  • #103
    10 months ago
    thekingsownthekingso… Posts: 443
    edited November 2017

    With these patch notes and 1.1 update Relic are mostly doing the opposite of what the overall community are telling them . In the notes for 1.1 it says "In light of recent feedback" Who are these people giving feedback????? The homeless guy down the road? The local ice cream seller???? Hillary Clinton????

    I think they pick random units out of a hat and then choose a random buff or nerf from another . Most of these changes are just so brainless and have not been mentioned by anyone in the community.

  • #104
    10 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited November 2017

    @thekingsown schrieb:

    It is like the Report of HelpingHans on YouTube. These "pros" arn't the right guys too balance this game. Because they are looking on complete other aspects. They would tranform CoH into Star-Craft.

    The CoH Team nearly gave away the hole potential of the franchise. It lived of this semi-correct historical tactical mix with massiv abilities. Now it turend into DoW2.

  • #106
    10 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited November 2017

    @Baálthazor schrieb:

    That is the reason why representative democracy is planed to fail. Most "Gamers" want to win, not to play a fair game. That is why so many "thumbs down" are dishing out here.

    The balancing-process of CoH is kind of "bread and games" for the loudest scum.

    There should be a small mod-contest to show people's ideas in action.
    Relic should release this Version of the balance-patch because of it's bug-fixes. And then we could make a real balancing thing here.

    Every week there would be a small "show-down" where the best ideas get seleced. Then they will mixed together AND drum-roll a real patch gets born.

  • #107
    10 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 3,882
    edited November 2017
    Guys, this is the December Balance Patch thread - not the soap box to shitpost about forum culture. Keep it on topic.
  • #108
    10 months ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 2,757 mod

    Stay on topic please. Removed a few posts. This is about providing feedback, nothing else.

  • #110
    10 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,437

    @Baálthazor said:
    @Lazarus
    @ImperialDane

    I get why you'd might like to say what you say, but honestly, don't you both think that these kind of comments are a symptom(and good indicator) of what a large group of people on this here are saying?!
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an anarchist or anything here, but deleting such comments only helps to enrage people further tbh..!

    The same 3 people screaming for their faction buffs and lashing at everyone explaining to them why they are wrong regardless of how strong/weak it is is hardly an indicator of anything.

    People, NEUTRAL PEOPKE that is(on BOTH sides!) Are sick and tired of free wins and easy games..! They WANT the game to be enjoyable again and keep faith in Relic, but that's hard to do when all they see are nerfs to a faction which is woefully inadaquite and has been behind the curve for years, and straight buffs to factions which needs to be nerfed..!

    I know its incredibly hard to comprehend, but even bottom tier faction overall can have OP stuff in it.
    Panther scaling was overpowering in comparison to literally any other vehicle in game+tank destroyers people cry about also got nerfs.

    Sure I'm an axis only player, but I don't want the axis factions to be superior in any way..., I just want them to be on par with the allies for a FUCKING CHANGE!!!

    Do you want to be on pair in infantry and light vehicle play?
    Ok, that's what the changes are doing for last couple of patches.
    But you'll also be on pair in terms of late game armor and its scaling.
    That is a cake you can't eat and keep at the same time.

    I sick and tired on getting pwned in 1v1, not because I was outplayed, but because I dominated early, mid and sometimes even late game, but STILL got roflstomped due to horribly balanced comets, riflemen, the ridiculous USF mortar, pac-man-like allied TD's, overperforming AEC, pathetic grens, underwhelming Tiger, overpriced Ost tier 4, all-purpose ass-engies, ridiculously priced axis late-game vehicles, Dell's, mines and whatnot being straight up HANDED to the allies for free, and lastly but not leastly, CONSTANTLY being forced to play minimalistically and fight an up-hill for 90 fuel!

    At the very least every second of your balance problems can be fixed by you playing better. Balance is not perfect, but its nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be and unless you play in top 10(you clearly do not), balance isn't your concern, personal skill is.

  • #111
    10 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,027
    edited November 2017

    @Baálthazor said:
    Sure, except that Ost is the worst faction in the game by FAR and should only receive buffs, not further nerf..!

    That's not how it works. The stuka bomb is absurdly broken. That has nothing to do with Ost as a whole, it has to do with the stuka bomb being broken. Please explain how death criticals in a radius of 15 is acceptable with nothing but audio warning? It isn't, and the change that caused it to be that way was never written in patchnotes. It was magically surged through the roof with ZERO explanation.

    Ost is my 3rd most played ahead of brits and okw. I do not at all want "easy wins"; I want the cheese that every faction has in some form or another to get removed. There is no "They" that's receiving nerfs. The stuka bomb is getting nerfed, SCAS is getting nerfed, etc. When you stop talking in vague terms, and focus on units, I'd love to talk.

    During the last preview I was pushing the Ostwind buffs, panther main gun buffs, hell I even suggested the idea of giving Grenadiers a 25% explosive resistance at Vet 3 (i still like that idea). But go ahead, keep taking your anti-allied woes out on me.

  • #113
    10 months ago

    Aqua said:
    @Baálthazor said:

    Ost is unbelievably fat far behind the curve and yet they are still receiving nerfs... How on earth is that justifiably?!

    Because shit like CAS and SDB are unhealthy for the game as a whole, even if Ost is weak. Relic already listened on the Panther changes which has been a big net gain (fast Doombar + Pak43 that isn't as concerned about CalliOP wipes FeelsGoodMan), hopefully they'll listen on other changes like bringing back FBP Ostwinds if support is shown. Its better to get Ost back its own legs rather than defending its crutches.

    Perfectly said, however, some Ost players including me think that Relic is not only refusing Ost to grow a pair of legs but also throwing their crutches away.

  • #114
    10 months ago
    ATATWalkerATATWalker Posts: 1
    edited November 2017

    Hi good to see you are still updating the game. I tried posting a comment to your blog but it would not let me gave me this message Forbidden You don't have permission to access /comment/reply/3914 on this server. Ow will I had a few suggestions regarding the new commander revamp. For the OKW faction the Firestorm Doctrine is the one I us the least. I want to us this commander but every time I do I put myself at a disadvantage for several reasons. First the 8CP-Flammen tank is a good unit butt. Has too high command points to be useful at point 8. At this point in game go's form infantry @ scout cars to light armor & medium armor. This is also the most important time for good recurs management to invest 100 oil on a Flam tank is a waste even a liability when I need to start unhooking tanks every time I get a F tank at 8 I regret it if I wait tell late game it is too late a heavy tank can kill it in like 2 hits. The F tank is simuler to unit like the ( 8CP – Flakpanzer unhook at 8 @ 7CP - Stug Ausf.E unhook at 7 ) except at list they can do some light tank damage. To fix this 1 of 3 things needs to happen the command points need to be lowered to like 6 or 7. Or the cost of the unit need to come down or it must do some kind of tank damage like maybe engine damage.
    Finally the 8CP-Rocket Barrage needs rebalancing too. If camped to similar ability’s like the Scavenge Doctrine 9CP - 105mm Howitzer Barrage. The Rocket Barrage does less damage and cost more munitions 180 vs 200 please fix.
    On other commanders the Soviet Urban Defense Tactics would be nice if the 0CP-Forward Headquarters was a real retreat point and should have 3CP SMG’s. The Axis and Soviet should have at least 1 commander whit retreat point. The USA Rifle Company needs work the Sherman 'Easy Eight' is good but not a lost else. It should not be the only commander whit 'Easy Eight' tanks. That go’s for the Sovie tKV-1 tank should not be the only commander with it. The OKW faction us too have the ability to convert Munition's to Fuel and vice versa. It was OP butt it be nice to see it return as a special ability for 1 of the commander’s your revamping. Lastly I like Cold tech butt not a lost of the winter map support it why is that is there a why to get more Cold tech maps? Thanks for reading some of this may be useful to you I hopefully.

  • #115
    10 months ago

    @Katitof said:

    @Baálthazor said:
    @Lazarus
    @ImperialDane

    I get why you'd might like to say what you say, but honestly, don't you both think that these kind of comments are a symptom(and good indicator) of what a large group of people on this here are saying?!
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be an anarchist or anything here, but deleting such comments only helps to enrage people further tbh..!

    Even if there was only 3 people on the forums asking for Axis buffs, it doesnt mean that ONLY 3 people care. A lot of likes are given to those comments which means that other players obviously agree and hence don't need to post what the first person just said.

  • #116
    10 months ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited November 2017

    It's fairly obvious that not enough is being done to address all the op stuff that the allies (particularly UKF) still have while constantly nerfing units on the axis roster that are still half-decent. For example:

    • Croc is op
    • AVRE is op
    • AEC is op
    • sappers are op (katitof if u say its because they're the only cqc stock brit inf, at least accept a price increase to 240, and there are commandos in quite a few docs. Enough of your lousy excuses.)
    • One can argue that inf sections are op. Far better version of grens. 0.8 vs 0.91 RA AND bonus in cover. Another underpriced unit for UKF. Only weakness is sniper and mortars, which Brits don't have too much problem countering with counter snipers, vehicles and mortar pits, and other arty.
    • Pyrotechnic arty is too cheap. Major arty as well.
    • Airburst is just as op as stuka bombs. Everytime the first shell lands, I lose a support weapon. Pinpoint accuracy with no visual warning. And you get several shells unlike stuka bomb.

    Croc needs to lose its invisible second flamer. AEC needs damage nerf. All Churchill variants including callins need to be tied to Anvil/hammer tech. Sapper increase to 240mp. And pyro/major arty increase to 100 munis. Relic, are you guys gonna do anything about these units? Or are you always nit-picking on everything in the axis arsenal?

    And Jackson getting buffed, while panther is getting nerfed?! That is another indirect nerf to panther as the Jackson is the best counter to the panther for USF.

  • #117
    10 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,027
    edited November 2017

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    And Jackson getting buffed, while panther is getting nerfed?! That is another indirect nerf to panther as the Jackson is the best counter to the panther for USF.

    Why do you keep phrasing a reload buff to the panther along with a population increase and loss of Vet 2 armor bonus as just a nerf? I really do not understand that, the reload time change is by far the most noticeable of those 3 things.

  • #118
    10 months ago
    LetzteJunkerLetzteJun… Posts: 88
    edited November 2017

    @SkysTheLimit написал:

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    And Jackson getting buffed, while panther is getting nerfed?! That is another indirect nerf to panther as the Jackson is the best counter to the panther for USF.

    Why do you keep phrasing a reload buff to the panther along with a population increase and loss of Vet 2 armor bonus as just a nerf? I really do not understand that, the reload time change is by far the most noticeable of those 3 things.

    May be because it is a quiet small buff for all nerfs that panther receives? Where is pen buff, accuracy buff, range buff?
    It is nice try to kill an IS-2 with so bad pen and die from couple of SU-85s focus sighted on your nice "buffed" "best" "undoctrinal heavy tank".
    Oh, sorry, i forgot that it is 4v4. So when you will tryhard this u should dodge a Firefly with "nerfed" accuracy and tank a Jackson shell.
    Well, after that our nice machinegunner of course snipe down 2 P47s from nice paratropped doctrine, somewhere near the base sector.
    Nice buff, guys.

  • #119
    10 months ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited November 2017

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    And Jackson getting buffed, while panther is getting nerfed?! That is another indirect nerf to panther as the Jackson is the best counter to the panther for USF.

    Why do you keep phrasing a reload buff to the panther along with a population increase and loss of Vet 2 armor bonus as just a nerf? I really do not understand that, the reload time change is by far the most noticeable of those 3 things.

    As the previous post said, u always point the exception. A few days back I said OST don't have bulletproof lights but usf does and u say m20 isn't. M20 is the exception. Ost doesn't have a choice to get bulletproof lights. And only the OST panther is getting rof buff.

  • #120
    10 months ago
    EeereEeere Posts: 18
    edited November 2017

    I somehow managed to remove my old post on satchels, so I'm just gonna repost it with some edits. RIP likes :'(

    "Fixed an issue where Targeted Anti-Vehicle Satchels would deal high damage to passengers onboard vehicles."

    They one shot transports, what is this even about? If we're looking at Satchels, AT damage needs to get hammered down to like 160-200. Tracking satchels are downright demonic with their current damage. These two changes combined will make them less polarizing, IE stunned or heavy tank = dead tank. Fast vehicle = waste of 50 munitions.

    I think it could potentially be an interesting niche as an AT "grenade" that doesn't snare or crit, but rather does heavy damage, making it more suited to finishing/softening tanks and vehicles. It makes more sense because Cons are relevant now and would reduce overlap.

    Soviets have two of the fastest transports in the game. Satchel range is a non-issue. Rolling up on the flank with 2 loaded penals to two shot a P4 is pretty hilarious tho. Only downside is losing the M5 in the process.

    conSCRIPTS not conVICTS ok. praise molly teching change

  • #121
    10 months ago
    EeereEeere Posts: 18
    edited November 2017

    @Baálthazor said:

    underwhelming Tiger

    What happened to the Tiger mobility buff in FBP? :(
    It's description boasts its mix of "firepower, armor, and mobility" but that's 1/3rd BS.
    Would be especially welcome with the Elefant nerf.

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