DBP Balance Feedback

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Comments

  • #182
    7 months ago
    sugmarsugmar Posts: 109

    Why in the beta test of the winter patch is not included the update on the kV-1? What gives him the ability to dig in and lead rapid-fire?

  • #183
    7 months ago
    i would like to get the opinions of others on the new cons and the combined tech for at nades and mollies.

    imo they are decent/good throughout the game dispite being somewhat squisier than before, and they can at least stand up to volks now wich is great. The molie speed with vet worksout great.

    However i feel the tech for at nades/mollies is to cheap atm. you can get them really fast now considering how cheap a molly is to throw and its increased effectiveness with vet.
    its something of 125mp and 20 fuel i believe to get hem. i think i should be 200mp 25fuel. or increase in muni per use.

    any thoughts?
  • #184
    7 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,612

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    imo they are decent/good throughout the game dispite being somewhat squisier than before, and they can at least stand up to volks now wich is great.

    I don't see anything in the changes that suggest that they "squisier than before" they are actually tougher by vet 1 and a bit less tough at vet 3.

  • #185
    7 months ago
    > @Vipper said:

    > I don't see anything in the changes that suggest that they "squisier than before" they are actually tougher by vet 1 and a bit less tough at vet 3.

    yes i meant their total recieved accuracy at vet 3 is less then before. That is what i meant. Their late game preformance in particular is what i want to know from other people.
    At vet 1 they also get a small recc buff indeed. I almost forgot about that. i am not sure if that is needed considering the other changes/buffs.

    Did you play them or had cons againts you? if yes what are your thoughts on them now?
  • #186
    7 months ago
    thekingsownthekingso… Posts: 442
    edited November 2017

    I would like to point out to the Devs that there is no counter for OKW for Soviet field HQ early and mid game.

    In order to counter this single ability a OKW player MUST invest in a stuka (the player has no choice) as that is the only doctrinal unit that will destroy a building . This utter lack of counters makes an already overpowered ability even worse**

  • #187
    7 months ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    edited November 2017
    @thekingsown
    Agreed. The field hq is the cheesiest cheese that exits in the game atm. It COULD be a lot of fun to play and play against, but in its current iteration it's just annoying and dull if not downright broken. Theres quite literally no excuse for it to be in the game it's its current form.
    Though Id rather see it reworked than removed altogether. It's boni needs to come down along with its cost.
  • #188
    7 months ago

    How's the balance between cons and grens now. Has anyone had any somewhat extensive testing?

  • #189
    7 months ago

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    i would like to get the opinions of others on the new cons and the combined tech for at nades and mollies.

    imo they are decent/good throughout the game dispite being somewhat squisier than before, and they can at least stand up to volks now wich is great. The molie speed with vet worksout great.

    However i feel the tech for at nades/mollies is to cheap atm. you can get them really fast now considering how cheap a molly is to throw and its increased effectiveness with vet.
    its something of 125mp and 20 fuel i believe to get hem. i think i should be 200mp 25fuel. or increase in muni per use.

    any thoughts?

    Yes I think the at nades from cons should be unlocked only after building tier 1 or tier 2. And the price of molotovs increase to 20 munis.

  • #190
    7 months ago

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    i would like to get the opinions of others on the new cons and the combined tech for at nades and mollies.

    imo they are decent/good throughout the game dispite being somewhat squisier than before, and they can at least stand up to volks now wich is great. The molie speed with vet worksout great.

    However i feel the tech for at nades/mollies is to cheap atm. you can get them really fast now considering how cheap a molly is to throw and its increased effectiveness with vet.
    its something of 125mp and 20 fuel i believe to get hem. i think i should be 200mp 25fuel. or increase in muni per use.

    any thoughts?

    i really like cons now, they feel viable. the combined tech opens up a new avenue that was lost- upgrading cons and delaying your teching to determine which route is suited for the opponent you are facing. the pricing iirc follows the AT nade, so 125mp and 25 fuel, which i dont think is TOO unreasonable (a case could be made to increase it but im not sure its too necessary, granted when it comes to cons i am admittedly a little biased)

    additionally i would be against a moli price increase, just because the range is rather short meaning its usually combined with oorah anyways, bumping the cost to 25

    but all in all cons feel really good, like putting them in green cover they can actually inflict losses on a sturm squad charging in neg cover which before would never happen

    ONLY thing i would change now on cons would be their vet 1, hit the dirt or to the last man come to mind, or an augmented oorah, or even light shared vet with elite units (guards/ shocks?) but trip mine flares are very uninspired. imo of course

    @Baálthazor all the FHQ needs is a slightly reduced cost, removed buff but act as a FRP maybe JUST for cons? and allow cons to build there imo. offers a strong point in reinforcement and healing as well as a rally point that is otherwise lacked by the soviet. the commander doesnt offer anything (aside from the aura) that makes blobbing cons viable (like ppshs) so i dont think it would become a "must pick" but a flavourful choice not offered elsewhere

  • #191
    7 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,612

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    Did you play them or had cons againts you? if yes what are your thoughts on them now?

    Can't really tell until the fix their DPS at range 10 which very high.

    Generally speaking they have replaced the DPS curve with linear one which goes against what Relic concluded after many patchs focusing on small arm fire and imo is a mistake.

  • #192
    7 months ago
    KurkinKurkin РоссияPosts: 30
    1. I propose to arm additional Conscripts or Penal Battalion one machine-gun DP or PTRS to choose from, but to tie this possibility to T2.
      1. Replace the Molotov cocktail at RGD 33.
      2. Guards Riflemen initially equip SVT rifles, and not Mosin rifles.
      3. Anti-tank grenade RPG 43 make accessible to all doctrine infantry squads (guardsmen, shock troopers), if it is open in the field headquarters. Or make guards and shocks cheaper, 320 and 360 respectively.
  • #193
    7 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 939
    edited November 2017
    Ostheer:
    1. Put together "trench" and "hull-down".
    2. Tiger should get non-doc smoke.
    3. Remove Scope, make it non-doc for 222.

    OKW: They need some fire-abilities non-doc. Maybe make Hetzer a T3 unit.

    Is the german trench same as british now? Or is it still the useless hole of mud? Make it the same. AND remove the 100% survive-ability if destroyed for garrison for both. Make it 50%.
  • #194
    7 months ago
    > @Vipper said:
    >
    > Can't really tell until the fix their DPS at range 10 which very high.
    >
    > Generally speaking they have replaced the DPS curve with linear one which goes against what Relic concluded after many patchs focusing on small arm fire and imo is a mistake.

    How would you change them so their late game potential goes beyond snaring and capping and being wiped?

    With this patch they can finaly take on inf in the late game wich imo is great, i agree their impact in the early game is a tad to good though.
  • #195
    7 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,612
    edited November 2017

    @TheLeveler83 said:
    How would you change them so their late game potential goes beyond snaring and capping and being wiped?
    With this patch they can finaly take on inf in the late game wich imo is great, i agree their impact in the early game is a tad to good though.

    I have explained my opinion many times and this probably not the best thread for this kind of debate.
    (What imo is worth trying is to changes conscripts into a defensive infantry and Penal into a cheap offensive one)

    If one makes tactics that allow for only conscripts spam to work thru out the game, one will simply create the "riflemen" effect that makes they quite good call-in USF infantry underused.

    In the end of the day, EFA armies are far better designed. On needs a number of unit to achieve your result (accept from penal), why should one turn Soviet into another I spam "mainline infantry and win factions?"

    (as If penal are not enough)

  • #196
    7 months ago

    Abilities and features that have much in common and synergy together while not being impactful alone, should be merged. There's way too many chaff commanders in Wehr and SoV that lack identity despite cool descriptions in tool-tip. Here's some examples I made for both factions.

    Conscript repair kit + Conscript assault package upgrade + Hit the Dirt! = Lessons of the Red Army (passive)
    Anti-Tank gun ambush tactics + M-42 45mm AT-gun (buff it with a disabling shot) = Field gun specialists (call-in+passive)
    PMD-6 Anti personnel mines + Tank traps = Battleground geniuses (extra abilities for combat engineers)

    Sprint + Breakthrough + Tactical movement = Blitzkrieg (activate for temporary bonus movement/cap speed)
    Trench + Hull Down = Turtle tactics (extra abilities for German infantry)
    Tiger Tank + Panzer Tactician = ...(I think the Tiger should always come with smoke screen available)

    The gist of this is, it's fine to retire the bad commanders and revamp those with potential. Mix and match stuff to find the right composition.

  • #197
    7 months ago
    Rifle granades are OP. They have no wind and are to small to see when fired. They also output lots of damage and are capable of wiping full squad.
  • #198
    7 months ago

    Or maybe just replace Penals with guards and make penals into a call in suicide AT unit that they should've always been? Not the multipurpose terminators they have become over time. I mean seriously somehow these criminals (in soviet standards) are more effective and valued combatants then regular loyal recruits and even the elite tier of the red army? Ok then guy.

  • #199
    7 months ago

    @Widerstreit said:
    Ostheer:
    1. Put together "trench" and "hull-down".
    2. Tiger should get non-doc smoke.
    3. Remove Scope, make it non-doc for 222.

    OKW: They need some fire-abilities non-doc. Maybe make Hetzer a T3 unit.

    Is the german trench same as british now? Or is it still the useless hole of mud? Make it the same. AND remove the 100% survive-ability if destroyed for garrison for both. Make it 50%.

    I like the idea of 222 getting non-doc scope and getting rid of the doc scope. 222 is overpriced atm. It's only good vs snipers and select light vehicles.

  • #200
    7 months ago

    @neneko007 said:
    Rifle granades are OP. They have no wind and are to small to see when fired. They also output lots of damage and are capable of wiping full squad.

    It's the only thing good for grens.

  • #201
    7 months ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited November 2017

    The house jumping nerf is a pointless change of game mechanics. Yes, the cheesy tactic of in and out can be annoying but most importantly, THIS MECHANIC IS IMPARTIAL TO ANY FACTION. This is a BALANCE patch where issues of certain units/mechanics are changed to make things more fair. The nerf wouldn't be a big deal of grenades didn't exist. First off, I will repeat that mgs will not be able to garrison due to its already long setup times. Even mobile infantry will have a harder time dodging grenades especially in the late game when things are more frantic. This nerf is a big nerf to garrison usage which dissuades units from taking cover in garrisons. Grenades are meant for better players to catch lesser players off guard, it shouldn't be able to guarantee damage in garrisons.

  • #202
    7 months ago

    WEHRMACHT

    Tech Cost Restructuring
    To allow Wehrmacht players to explore more diverse build orders and have access to a more versatile roster we have moved the majority of tech costs from Tier 3 and 4 buildings to Battle Phase 2. This change does not affect the amount of required resource to unlock T3 or T4 directly, however, it does allow players to better adapt their strategies in the late game by making teching to T4 from T3 or back-teching from T4 to T3 a viable option.

    Battle Phase 2 costs increased from 100MP/45FU to 200MP/90FU
    Battle Phase 3 costs decreased from 100MP/45FU to 100MP/25FU
    Support Armor Korps costs decreased from 240MP/60FU to 140MP/15FU
    Heavy Panzer Korps costs decreased from 200MP/50 to 100MP/25FU
    

    I can't believe nobody has made a comment about this change. Imho this change will completely break ostheer gameplay.

    It will just take too damn long before you can field any non doctrinal AT options and wehrmacht will be too vulnerable to rushes of early allied light tanks, especially when you are starved for fuel in the early game.

    Also forget about getting a 222 scoutcar, this unit intented for the early game will be available too late to be of any use. If this change makes it to the final patch at least put the 222 in battlephase 1

  • #203
    7 months ago

    @Wehrwietse said:

    Also forget about getting a 222 scoutcar, this unit intented for the early game will be available too late to be of any use. If this change makes it to the final patch at least put the 222 in battlephase 1

    What? Nothing has changed about early game tech.

    BP 1 is required for T2 (Paks, 222s, PGs, HT). None of that has changed
    BP 2 is required for T3 (PIV, Stug G, Ostwind)
    BP 3 is required for T4 (Panther, Brummbar, Werfer)

  • #204
    7 months ago

    @miragefla said:

    @Wehrwietse said:

    Also forget about getting a 222 scoutcar, this unit intented for the early game will be available too late to be of any use. If this change makes it to the final patch at least put the 222 in battlephase 1

    What? Nothing has changed about early game tech.

    BP 1 is required for T2 (Paks, 222s, PGs, HT). None of that has changed
    BP 2 is required for T3 (PIV, Stug G, Ostwind)
    BP 3 is required for T4 (Panther, Brummbar, Werfer)

    Damn my bad. Sorry for ranting!

  • #205
    7 months ago

    @Soylentgreen said:
    WEHRMACHT

    Tech Cost Restructuring
    To allow Wehrmacht players to explore more diverse build orders and have access to a more versatile roster we have moved the majority of tech costs from Tier 3 and 4 buildings to Battle Phase 2. This change does not affect the amount of required resource to unlock T3 or T4 directly, however, it does allow players to better adapt their strategies in the late game by making teching to T4 from T3 or back-teching from T4 to T3 a viable option.

    Battle Phase 2 costs increased from 100MP/45FU to 200MP/90FU
    Battle Phase 3 costs decreased from 100MP/45FU to 100MP/25FU
    Support Armor Korps costs decreased from 240MP/60FU to 140MP/15FU
    Heavy Panzer Korps costs decreased from 200MP/50 to 100MP/25FU
    

    I can't believe nobody has made a comment about this change. Imho this change will completely break ostheer gameplay.

    It will just take too damn long before you can field any non doctrinal AT options and wehrmacht will be too vulnerable to rushes of early allied light tanks, especially when you are starved for fuel in the early game.

    Also forget about getting a 222 scoutcar, this unit intented for the early game will be available too late to be of any use. If this change makes it to the final patch at least put the 222 in battlephase 1

    The overall cost doesn't change to get out tier3 building. Do the math. The bulk of the cost has simply shifted away from the building to the tech itself.

  • #206
    7 months ago
    Commissar_Squad_RUCommissar… Russia Posts: 80

    Hello! I would like to share with everyone the opinion about the "December Update".
    What the best party wanted to see?
    Options:
    1) Change The T-34-76
    1-1) to Give an improved 57mm gun for 75 Munitions. (Only on the T-34-76)
    1-2) to Give improved Flamethrower "ATO-41". In place korpusova machine gun is a flamethrower for 75 munitions. (And for the T-34-85)
    1-3) to Give improved shielding screens for 75 Munitions. (Increases the armor of a tank by 30%)

    2) Change the Soviet snipers.
    2-1) to Make a sniper instead of two!
    2-2) to Give the improvement the second sniper "Sniper rifle"

    3) Change the Commander ability to "PPSH-41".
    3-1) to Change the availability of a PPSH-41 1-2 points. (Since they are issued only to recruits but not all.)
    3-2) to Change the availability of a PPSH-41 on 3 points and available to all (Engineers, Soldiers and Recruits)
    The reason for the change PPSH-41? We all know German rifle G43 which gives 1 for points (Grenadiers, Pantsergrenadery) and offers the ability to "Interrogation".

    4) the Soviet infantry.
    4-1) to Give Soldiers to build Trenches or sand Bags. (as the Grenadiers and Panzer grenadiers can build)

    5) Change headquarters
    5-1) to Make available "Point of retreat"
    5-2) Remove Aura (Which inspires men)
    5-3) to Remove the Physicians and make them for 50 ammo

    6) the Change in IL-2
    6-1) to Change the Fighters IL-2. To allow the second fighter.
    6-2) to Edit a reconnaissance Il-2. To reduce the price as it always is destroyed defenses.
    6-3) to Change Bombing IL-2. To allow Il-2 accurate hitting technique! (because it is expensive and not effective) In place specifying the place of impact.

  • #207
    7 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,612
    edited November 2017

    Things that should been look at:
    Soviet FHQ when cut off

    UKF AFA self-repair
    Repair speed for AFA, conscripts, Soviet repair stations, okw rep truck.

  • #208
    7 months ago
    KurkinKurkin РоссияPosts: 30

    @ubermensch said:
    1) Change The T-34-76
    1-1) to Give an improved 57mm gun for 75 Munitions. (Only on the T-34-76)

    That's not necessary. 57 mm cannon is worse than the 76 mm F-34 gun. It is better to add subcaliber ammunition with greater armor penetration.

  • #209
    7 months ago
    KurkinKurkin РоссияPosts: 30

    @ubermensch said:
    Or maybe just replace Penals with guards and make penals into a call in suicide AT unit that they should've always been? Not the multipurpose terminators they have become over time. I mean seriously somehow these criminals (in soviet standards) are more effective and valued combatants then regular loyal recruits and even the elite tier of the red army? Ok then guy.

    I agree! Penal battalions as elite infantry of the Red Army are nonsense and lie. During the entire war from 41 to 45 years the penal battalions consisted of about 1% of the total troop strength of the Red Army. But I would like to clarify that in the penalty battalions were officers and soldiers who did not comply with the order, deserted, violated the charter. Ordinary civil criminals in the penalty battalion were never taken.
    I agree with you that it will be correct to replace the penaltys for the guards. But leave them with the arms of SVT rifles and additional armament of the DP and PTRS. And also AT grenade RPG 43, if it open in HQ. The penalty battalion is removed from the game and forgotten like a terrible dream.

  • #210
    7 months ago

    I'm missing very important Units:
    Walking Stuka changes. I know that panzerfüssis, Jp4, isg, okw vet is kind of a Problem too. But on the top its Walking Stuka. When i have to choose from all.
    --> Walking Stuka and Panzerfüssis.
    I'm fine that the walking stuka still get no penalty for shooting through FoW. Walking Stuka does not only decrew weaponteams. You can full destroy it in the same barrage from the walking stuka sometimes...( A fresh, fullrepair weaponteam)
    Also can easy destroy even stonehouses!
    Panzerfüssis:
    Their Popcap is just a joke. Also they refresh way faster then Obers. Are 6 man squad! And it can faust, for real? Can Obers, Shocks, USA Fallis, Brit commanders faust?: Do they have antitanknades? No. Because its an unit to counter inf!
    Btw shock cost 35 Manpower per Model when i'm not wrong^^

  • #211
    7 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 939
    edited November 2017

    I wonder, why not give Ostheer a more similar tech-system as Soviets? You have to build T1, then you can build T2, then you can choose between T3 or T4. No useless extra tech in the head-quarter anymore.

    And please! Move the Grens into T0 and MG back to T1 (like in Vanilla).

    alternative Tech and Units:

    OST
    T0: Pio and Gren
    T1: MG42 (or MG34), Sniper, Mortar (or leIG18)
    T2: Panzergren, 222, 251, PaK40
    T3: StuG, Panzer 4, Brummbär
    T4: Tiger, Ostwind, Panzerwerfer

    Kicked out non-doc Panther and replaced it with Tiger I.

    OKW
    T0: Sturmpio, Volks, Püppchen, Kübel, (Obersoldaten at T3)
    T1: leIG18 (or Mortar), MG34 (or MG42), Uhu
    T2: Luchs, Puma, FlaK-Sdkfz
    T3: Panzer IV, Panther, Hetzer, "Stuka zu Fuß"

    Kicked out non-doc Jagdpanzer 4 and moved it into "Scavange-Doc" instead of Ostwind.

    Moved Hetzer into T3 as non-doc unit. Replaced it with "break-through" in "Feuersturm-Doc".

145791034
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