USF SMOKE - Which USF Squad should have access to smoke grenades?

124

Comments

  • #92
    3 years ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468
    edited December 2017
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented

    I know the moderator told us, "No us vs them"

    But all I'm seeing is people who are afraid to face the facts. Who also contradict themselves...

    The reason the mortar was introduced was to help and support riflemen. At least, that's what they say

    Well if the mortar is here to stay, why do rifles need smoke? Easy. They don't want to lose any power. However that's not balance, that's greed.

    The fact that rifles have smoke makes them currently immune to MG's. No if's or but's about it. Price, Timing, Strategy: Irrelevant. They hold the counter, The magic card, The legendary sword, that negates (and here's the funny part) the unit that's suppose to counter them.

  • #93
    3 years ago
    company14u2company14… Posts: 572
    edited December 2017
    Other (leave feedback below)

    @eonfigure said:
    I know the moderator told us, "No us vs them"

    But all I'm seeing is people who are afraid to face the facts. Who also contradict themselves...

    The reason the mortar was introduced was to help and support riflemen. At least, that's what they say

    Well if the mortar is here to stay, why do rifles need smoke? Easy. They don't want to lose any power. However that's not balance, that's greed.

    The fact that rifles have smoke makes them currently immune to MG's. No if's or but's about it. Price, Timing, Strategy: Irrelevant. They hold the counter, The magic card, The legendary sword, that negates (and here's the funny part) the unit that's suppose to counter them.

    Then why bother with rifles at all when you could go penals.
    That is pretty much the reasoning. Soviets have snipers and scout cars to deal with mgs. The usf mortar is something you have to build for smoke, not something you want to build.

  • #94
    3 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Riflemen with changes (15MU->25MU, no smoke vet bonuses) - not yet implemented

    I say keep it rifles only, up to 20MU.
    On suppression, rifles cannot throw smoke, just like you cant throw grenades.
    Smoke should remain a pre-planned attack and not a cheap way to escape MG emplacements.

  • #95
    3 years ago
    Riflemen (Live version)

    @eonfigure said:
    I know the moderator told us, "No us vs them"

    But all I'm seeing is people who are afraid to face the facts. Who also contradict themselves...

    The reason the mortar was introduced was to help and support riflemen. At least, that's what they say

    Well if the mortar is here to stay, why do rifles need smoke? Easy. They don't want to lose any power. However that's not balance, that's greed.

    The fact that rifles have smoke makes them currently immune to MG's. No if's or but's about it. Price, Timing, Strategy: Irrelevant. They hold the counter, The magic card, The legendary sword, that negates (and here's the funny part) the unit that's suppose to counter them.

    "Immune to Mgs"? IMMUNE? Really, so Mgs can't set up in unpredictable points and flanks? I do this all the time, your enemy thinks you're going to be in the obvious building but you set up the mg42 in a route where they'll try and flank and catch them for an early retreat. Far from immune

  • #96
    3 years ago
    Riflemen (Live version)

    @Baálthazor said:
    @Cpt. Blitz

    "The majority will rule, sorry."

    "Enjoy the smoke on riflemen for years to come, Ol' chap."

    "Lets discuss other things."(snip)

    Truly spoken like someone who's conceded, because he ran out of strawman arguments and weak points.

    Actually the comment I was quoting stated that the majority was wrong.... who's conceded here? ha

    It's fine that you disagree with the majority, just stop taking such offense.

    Then learn to accept what the majority wants.

    I'm willing to accept what the majority wants, and I will even accept if the Devs decide to not go with the majority.

  • #97
    3 years ago
    Riflemen (Live version)

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    They have it for a reason. USF was built around smoke, their whole faction, so no matter what scenario, you'll almost always have a unit to use smoke to escape/assault/flank the more powerful/HP Heavy axis units. So of course their main unit "Versatility and Individual Firepower", will have smoke.

    The sense of entitlement is oozing out your ears. "USF was built around smoke!?" I might as well say Axis was built around vastly superior late game armor. How did that turn out? With a sea of crying allied players and massive penetration buffs for all allied TDs and nerfs for late game Axis armor. Now everything short of KT get penetrated by allied TDs like swiss cheese. So much for "op axis late game." You can't take anything for granted in CoH2. "Versatility and Individual Firepower" doesn't justify why USF should receive a mortar. As I've stated for the infinite time, why does USF need a mortar when they already have rifle smoke. And now with the mortar, how does USF justify that they get to keep rifle smoke?

    Keep smoke on Riflemen, you had it right the first time on this one Relic. Let's discuss more important things like Late game balance, and differences in 1v1-4v4 games.

    And here, you try to shut down the whole debate. This is a typical tactic one uses when he knows he has lost the debate.

    They WERE built around smoke. Smoke, flanking, out microing your opponent.

    Axis do have the best armor and strongest late game.

    IDC about the debate. I care about the result. And so far, I like the results.

  • #98
    3 years ago
    Riflemen (Live version)

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    They have it for a reason. USF was built around smoke, their whole faction, so no matter what scenario, you'll almost always have a unit to use smoke to escape/assault/flank the more powerful/HP Heavy axis units. So of course their main unit "Versatility and Individual Firepower", will have smoke.

    The sense of entitlement is oozing out your ears. "USF was built around smoke!?" I might as well say Axis was built around vastly superior late game armor. How did that turn out? With a sea of crying allied players and massive penetration buffs for all allied TDs and nerfs for late game Axis armor. Now everything short of KT get penetrated by allied TDs like swiss cheese. So much for "op axis late game." You can't take anything for granted in CoH2. "Versatility and Individual Firepower" doesn't justify why USF should receive a mortar. As I've stated for the infinite time, why does USF need a mortar when they already have rifle smoke. And now with the mortar, how does USF justify that they get to keep rifle smoke?

    Keep smoke on Riflemen, you had it right the first time on this one Relic. Let's discuss more important things like Late game balance, and differences in 1v1-4v4 games.

    And here, you try to shut down the whole debate. This is a typical tactic one uses when he knows he has lost the debate.

    They WERE built around smoke. Smoke, flanking, out microing your opponent.

    Axis do have the best armor and strongest late game.

    IDC about the debate. I care about the result. And so far, I like the results.

    The result is that less than half of voters voted for riflemen. Relic will likely come up with a compromise. And when you don't like the result, you resort to whining about it like you did a few days ago while trying to defend a Brit player that was lamenting that the crutches of the faction were getting nerfed. You claimed that the whining of Axis fanboys were to blame for what you thought were unnecessary nerfs to the Brits.

    And you still didn't answer my question. You claim that USF were built around smoke. That is entirely true. USF always had smoke grenades on riflemen. SO WHY DID USF PLAYERS HOWL FOR A MORTAR? If USF riflemen were packed with "versatility and individual firepower", why does USF need a mortar?

    I think it's because every faction has a mortar, and they wanted one. Like they wanted a Heavy tank, like every faction. IDK

    And I'm glad you're keeping tabs on me bro, that's very cute and flattering ;) smooches

  • #99
    3 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Riflemen with changes (15MU->25MU, no smoke vet bonuses) - not yet implemented

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    They have it for a reason. USF was built around smoke, their whole faction, so no matter what scenario, you'll almost always have a unit to use smoke to escape/assault/flank the more powerful/HP Heavy axis units. So of course their main unit "Versatility and Individual Firepower", will have smoke.

    The sense of entitlement is oozing out your ears. "USF was built around smoke!?" I might as well say Axis was built around vastly superior late game armor. How did that turn out? With a sea of crying allied players and massive penetration buffs for all allied TDs and nerfs for late game Axis armor. Now everything short of KT get penetrated by allied TDs like swiss cheese. So much for "op axis late game." You can't take anything for granted in CoH2. "Versatility and Individual Firepower" doesn't justify why USF should receive a mortar. As I've stated for the infinite time, why does USF need a mortar when they already have rifle smoke. And now with the mortar, how does USF justify that they get to keep rifle smoke?

    Keep smoke on Riflemen, you had it right the first time on this one Relic. Let's discuss more important things like Late game balance, and differences in 1v1-4v4 games.

    And here, you try to shut down the whole debate. This is a typical tactic one uses when he knows he has lost the debate.

    They WERE built around smoke. Smoke, flanking, out microing your opponent.

    > Axis do have the best armor and strongest late game.

    IDC about the debate. I care about the result. And so far, I like the results.

    I take issue with line.
    Axis do not have the best armor or strongest late game these days.
    Every thing is too even late game.
    Every late units Axis throw out can be easily beaten.

  • #100
    3 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited December 2017
    Other (leave feedback below)

    @eonfigure said:
    The fact that rifles have smoke makes them currently immune to MG's. No if's or but's about it. Price, Timing, Strategy: Irrelevant. They hold the counter, The magic card, The legendary sword, that negates (and here's the funny part) the unit that's suppose to counter them.

    What I'm tired from both "sides" of the debate is the exaggeration. I'm tired of people who are too reliant on Rifle smoke saying that it should not be touched at all, and I'm tired of people like you saying that rifle-smoke 100% negates MG play of any kind whatsoever. Like how can you say price and timing are irrelevant???? Its locked behind a 25 fuel upgrade on a faction that already has to wait the longest for tech, that is very relevant........

    It does not make them immune to MGs, it means your MG has to be re-positioned more often. Everyone here keeps mentioning the mortar and no one talks about the fact that its total garbage. It is easily, by far, without question the worst mortar in the game. People on this forum regularly act as if the 15 shorter range is nothing. There is no support weapon I have an easier time de-crewing as Axis than the US mortar, and I usually don't even bother stealing it (maybe if I'm OKW and went Mech).

    You're point about greed is as old and dry as anything I've read on this forum. Anybody can point out players who don't want the cheesy things from their faction removed, and there's PLENTY of them on ALL sides of this game. It's not one-sided, and anyone who claims it is is really just showing their own bias.

  • #101
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented
    @SkysTheLimit while the mortar DOES have a shorter range, its also cheap and comes earlier (if only slightly) than others. I find that most people treat it like a normal mortar, which its not. I know i dont have to tell YOU how to play USF, but for every one elses benifit: you are not supposed to set and forget. Its supposed to set up, barrage AND MOVE if you are taking return fire you are using it wrong. Its perfect for THE VISION on the USF- hit em and be gone before they get counter fire on the way. FOR THAT PURPOSE the usf mortar is a beautiful little bugger, but people are not used to that...

    I posted why "I" think smoke shouldnt go on RE , but not why i think it should move from rifles so ill try:

    Imo smoke on rifles would be great IF they actually NEEDED to flank and be mobile, but in live they can take on most threats through brute force frontally, so smoke doesnt act as a tactical choice, ot works more like ost panzer snoke does- "oops better back off for a second cause im outgunned"

    Secondly, compare to EXISTING smoke toting units, shocks and in dbp commandos- what do these guys have in common? If they cant stick their prick in it they cant deal any damage . That is NOT the case for rifles, AND to boot, rifle smoke has effects against armour. It all compounds and I feel it sucks away strategic diversity. Basicly they are a multi tool, so why bother also bringing a pocket knife? I would be more inclined to agree with rifle smoke if they couldnt already tackle everything without it with less tactical though than other units require. Imo they are the infantry equivalent to the ole panther with smoke-out lasting and out punching anything around, then when a threat comes along they have a get out of jail for cheap card tucked into they pocket for a couple of clicks..
  • #102
    3 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited December 2017
    Other (leave feedback below)

    @thedarkarmadillo Yeah the mortar certainly has use. On urban maps especially you can mitigate the weakness of shorter range. And with the patch bringing its default smoke range to 80 and letting you use it more often at vet 1, it's definitely going to be plenty capable of substituting rifle smoke in tandem with officers and REs now having the launcher.

    But that whole picture is important, and all I'm saying is that if your losing games because of just rifle smoke than I believe your still gonna have problems after the patch. It's not shreck volks level of unholy.

  • #103
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented
    @SkysTheLimit i agree its not volks shrek levels of broken, but it was generally accepted that rifles were so strong because they lacked support. They now how support, the balance has shifted and that needs adjusted. I would rather officers become...something instead of smoke being lost like irregulars. Smoke moved to RE opens up cheap map control into flamers and still an option for AT, throw in smoke and its a recipe for disaster. Keeping it on rifles imo requires a nerf elsewhere. Rock and hard place here for the balance team...
  • #104
    3 years ago
    1ncendiary_Rounds1ncendiar… Posts: 798
    edited December 2017
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    What I'm tired from both "sides" of the debate is the exaggeration. I'm tired of people who are too reliant on Rifle smoke saying that it should not be touched at all, and I'm tired of people like you saying that rifle-smoke 100% negates MG play of any kind whatsoever. Like how can you say price and timing are irrelevant???? Its locked behind a 25 fuel upgrade on a faction that already has to wait the longest for tech, that is very relevant........

    Everyone here keeps mentioning the mortar and no one talks about the fact that its total garbage. It is easily, by far, without question the worst mortar in the game. People on this forum regularly act as if the 15 shorter range is nothing. There is no support weapon I have an easier time de-crewing as Axis than the US mortar, and I usually don't even bother stealing it (maybe if I'm OKW and went Mech).

    You realize that the extra micro for the USF mortar is completely worth it. The USF mortar still has the least scatter which more than enough makes up for the range. You can do an experiment. The USF mortar vs Ost mortar on clearing out an mg at close range. The USF mortar will clear it out first 9/10 times due to the less scatter. Even after the triple nerf, the USF mortar remains the most accurate mortar and continues to still get decent squad wipes when its firing. For someone who complains about exaggeration in this forum, it's surprising that you call the USF mortar "total garbage." I made a post a day ago mocking USF players that simply refuse to use the USF mortar because it's not a riflemen squad that you can add to your blob and that the mortar requires SOME ACTUAL MICRO. I hope you're not one of those players. Ostheer is always busy repositioning mgs in addition to grens. Now the micro skills required to play USF will require microing a rifle blob AND a mortar. God forbid that USF players need to micro another unit other than riflemen. High time USf micro was a bit more demanding.

  • #105
    3 years ago
    Other (leave feedback below)

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:
    Ostheer is always busy repositioning mgs in addition to grens. Now the micro skills required to play USF will require microing a rifle blob AND a mortar.

    Your bias against US is getting old. I play plenty of Ostheer, stop telling me how to play them. Not sure why you have this in your head, but having US as my favorite faction does not necessitate that I don't play the other ones. Maybe it works that way for you and Ostheer though, cause that's the impression I'm getting.

    I already highlighted the positives of the US mortar in my post, not sure why you decided to lecture me on it. It's still total garbage by comparison, the fact that you have to compare the mortars' effectiveness at close range tells you everything you need to know. It's unique from all the other mortars, but mostly in lesser ways.

  • #106
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented
    It cant be on par with other mortars however becauae rifles are far from on par with the infantry in the factions with those other mortars. We tried equal, the result was not good....
  • #107
    3 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    Rear Echelon (December Balance Preview)

    The only reason why USF even got a mortar in T0 is to allow them fuel free option to counter HMGs and garrisons in early game, for that role the mortar performs ok. Saying its best mortar is being delusional - best mortar is owned by wehr.

  • #108
    3 years ago
    Other (leave feedback below)

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    It cant be on par with other mortars however becauae rifles are far from on par with the infantry in the factions with those other mortars. We tried equal, the result was not good....

    No one is asking for that mortar to come back, but the m1 needs to be stated for what it is. Easily the worst mortar in the game, that provides some utility when moved properly. It being a t0 mortar is the most exciting thing about it. The smoke range and cooldown vet buff they just gave it will also make it more usable, only the regular attack/barrage should have been shorter range to begin with.

  • #109
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented
    > @Katitof said:
    > The only reason why USF even got a mortar in T0 is to allow them fuel free option to counter HMGs and garrisons in early game, for that role the mortar performs ok. Saying its best mortar is being delusional - best mortar is owned by wehr.

    Nobody said it was the best. It's far from total garbage though.
  • #110
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented
    @SkysTheLimit i dont disagree, its main role should be smoke support, which lends the question as to why they will need smoke on rifles after the proper mortar buff. Smoke is too powerful of a tool to be so readily availible on already very versatile and potent units. The t0 still offers the fastest smoke support availible to any faction, its set amd forget capability is undeniably less than its counterparts but thats more than made up by the unit its designed to support. Wtf is the point of a support weapon when the core unit doesnt need support?
  • #111
    3 years ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235
    edited December 2017

    @mrgame2 said:

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    @1ncendiary_Rounds said:

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    They have it for a reason. USF was built around smoke, their whole faction, so no matter what scenario, you'll almost always have a unit to use smoke to escape/assault/flank the more powerful/HP Heavy axis units. So of course their main unit "Versatility and Individual Firepower", will have smoke.

    The sense of entitlement is oozing out your ears. "USF was built around smoke!?" I might as well say Axis was built around vastly superior late game armor. How did that turn out? With a sea of crying allied players and massive penetration buffs for all allied TDs and nerfs for late game Axis armor. Now everything short of KT get penetrated by allied TDs like swiss cheese. So much for "op axis late game." You can't take anything for granted in CoH2. "Versatility and Individual Firepower" doesn't justify why USF should receive a mortar. As I've stated for the infinite time, why does USF need a mortar when they already have rifle smoke. And now with the mortar, how does USF justify that they get to keep rifle smoke?

    Keep smoke on Riflemen, you had it right the first time on this one Relic. Let's discuss more important things like Late game balance, and differences in 1v1-4v4 games.

    And here, you try to shut down the whole debate. This is a typical tactic one uses when he knows he has lost the debate.

    They WERE built around smoke. Smoke, flanking, out microing your opponent.

    > Axis do have the best armor and strongest late game.

    IDC about the debate. I care about the result. And so far, I like the results.

    I take issue with line.
    Axis do not have the best armor or strongest late game these days.
    Every thing is too even late game.
    Every late units Axis throw out can be easily beaten.

    LOL. You want to be unbeatable tank that do it all. One click win?
    I do need to remind you that axis is strong coz they got more hp and pen on their tanks or maybe your thinking Axis must have a SUPERMAN Power that no one can beat.

    Of course allied should be able to beat every unit thrown at them but they need a lot of it and cost more. No Tanks in allied can beat a panther on 1v1 even IS2, Comet and Pershing that the fact. If i beat you with 2 m36 Jackson that cost 800MP and 280 fuel
    VS Panther 490MO and 175fuel its got its worth.

  • #112
    3 years ago
    kdragoonkdragoon Posts: 11
    edited December 2017
    Rear Echelon (December Balance Preview)

    USF smoke is still way too strong. Moving the smoke to RE and officers won't do too much, because you have 3 riflemen, and now you have 3 officers + more REs. This situation will be even worst if someone is playing RE spam. This thing has no counter what so ever. Spending 15 munition for guaranteed territory, how op is that?

    The USF infantry itself is already very powerful, and you have a mortar to create smoke barrage as well. I suggest to remove the rifle smoke completely and maybe add a smoke grenade the lieutenant.

  • #113
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented

    I say officers only reason being that right now officers feel just like rifleman with a fancy icon to tell them apart. While they shouldn't be that, they could and should be some sort of support infantry to boost your frontline rifle's with cool abilities like "focus fire" for the captain or "on me!" for the liutanent and both having smoke to even further support the rifles.
    The reason I dont think rifles or rear echelons should have smoke is because right now this faction has too much smoke sources (rifles, possible officers, mortar, pack howitzer, sherman's, scott's) it feels too much. The ideal would be only for officers, mortars and pack howitzers to have smoke, even if necessary lower the ability recharge time a bit. Smoke for the shermans would be very welcome if it was locked behind a commander such as armor or tactical support and since I talked about the officers abilities to boost your rifles maybe moving the supervise to the major would give this unit more roles other than act as a foward retreat point making the player opt for faster building units or foward retreat points.

  • #114
    3 years ago
    Riflemen (Live version)

    Smoke is fine in live version. Not sure why this should be changed. Without smoke riflemen are almost helpless vs Wehrmacht MG spam in early game.

  • #115
    3 years ago
    Riflemen (Live version)

    USF doesn't have any suppression units early in the game, the main infantry the Riflemen squads needs a way to defend themselves from Ostheer MG rush, by taking the smoke from RM the USF needs to relay on easy to kill Rear echelon troops, leaving the main backbone infantry RM squads defenseless against MGs

  • #116
    3 years ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    edited December 2017
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented
    @champ19444

    I'm going to postulate that if you need smoke on RM against mg-spam as Ost..,that's DEFINITELY a L2P issue..!

    When was mg-spam as Ost EVER a thing?!

    You have a veritable plethora of opt-ins against such a noobish play, so crying about it on the forums where NOBODY SHARES the same sentiment, is only going to make you look foolish, so don't... just don't..!
  • #117
    3 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented

    @champ19444 said:
    USF doesn't have any suppression units early in the game, the main infantry the Riflemen squads needs a way to defend themselves from Ostheer MG rush, by taking the smoke from RM the USF needs to relay on easy to kill Rear echelon troops, leaving the main backbone infantry RM squads defenseless against MGs

    Or you could buy the T0 mortar

  • #118
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented
    Fight supression spam with supression spam!
  • #119
    3 years ago

    @champ19444 said:
    USF doesn't have any suppression units early in the game, the main infantry the Riflemen squads needs a way to defend themselves from Ostheer MG rush, by taking the smoke from RM the USF needs to relay on easy to kill Rear echelon troops, leaving the main backbone infantry RM squads defenseless against MGs

    @blvckdream said:
    Smoke is fine in live version. Not sure why this should be changed. Without smoke riflemen are almost helpless vs Wehrmacht MG spam in early game.

    Wehr MG spam has never been a thing, mostly because it doesn't really work all that well. Machine guns are pretty static weapons, Axis versions having a long set-up/pack-up time, for which reason smoke and assault usually fucks them up worse than, say, Maxims, especially pre-nerf. I could also point out that Axis have very hard time getting access to smoke, except from Wehr mortar. OKW only has doctrinal or Obersoldaten poison smoke, which also slows and isn't really a good option for assaulting through.

    But we're not talking about Axis smoke. The problem with Riflemen is that, like @eonfigure said already, they make MG play completely irrelevant. The moment they get supressed, pop the smoke, bring in another squad (it's a widely known fact that RM's hunt in packs) and smoke again if necessary. Even if you don't the Axis MG is forced to reposition, giving plenty of time for the US player to either nade it or just move his squad somewhere else. This is a problem early game, when the 25 fuel that grenade tech costs is easily won pack by taking the Axis fuel point, which sets them back quite a lot. It's a major issue that baseline infantry that are already quite strong also have an option to escape or neutralize the one thing that counters them. Because Grenadiers sure as hell don't.

  • #120
    3 years ago
    Officers only (Lieutenant, Captain, Major) - not yet implemented

    @Cpt. Blitz said:

    "Immune to Mgs"? IMMUNE? Really, so Mgs can't set up in unpredictable points and flanks? I do this all the time, your enemy thinks you're going to be in the obvious building but you set up the mg42 in a route where they'll try and flank and catch them for an early retreat. Far from immune

    Yes. Immune. As in no damage. You can mention all the strategic moves you want, heck you can even mod the game to remove Fog of War...but the fact is:

    MG fires - push smoke button - No damage or suppression.

    Killing the mg or rifles isnt the point either, the point is stopping and suppressing the rifles; ya know, what the mg was designed to do?

    Let me put this in simpler words for you, it's like always having a get out of jail card in monopoly, or always having the star ready in mario when you get into bad situation. No punishment, just free unimpeded, movement for spoiled players who begged liked whining children for their xmas mortar. It was never about utility, or flavor...and im not going to let them live that down. This kind of greed never would of flown if this game had starcraft or dota levels of competition and popularity. With that many eyes, plenty of impartial people would have noticed, "hey this faction is to potent, let's fix this, this, and this."

    To bad it isn't.

  • #121
    3 years ago
    Other (leave feedback below)
    > @eonfigure said:
    > No punishment, just free unimpeded, movement for spoiled players who begged liked whining children for their Xmas mortar.

    Except its not free and not without punishment. You have to delay your already late teching by 25 fuel.

    I'm glad smokes accessibility has been nerfed, but people really need to stop acting like this is as bad as shreck volks.
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