OKW flare vs All Recon Plane including Wechma.

#1
1 week ago
XlossXloss Posts: 57
edited December 4 in General Discussion

I just tested that flares Quite is quite cheap with 60 muni, don't have cool down, that have a very long duration and can't be shot down.
Any comments about this?
Does it over perform other reconnaissance ability or its just me?

Comments

  • #2
    1 week ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,008
    Flares are certainly a bit strong for what they do, no drawbacks besides the initial cost. Compounds well with a teamate with zeroing arty
  • #3
    1 week ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 57

    Well the zeroing arty combo and flare combo hurts a lot tbh. Duration, Cost and undeniable make it over perform a lot vs other recon abilities. You can flare the whole map if you got the Muni for it, its like map hack built in game coz of zero cooldown and long duration.
    While we can deny recon plane with the almost the same effect that cost more but recon plane got blind spots on their runs. The triangular form of vision makes it under perform and being able to shot it down hurts.

  • #4
    6 days ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 848 mod

    Zeroing arty at 45 seconds certainly last longer than the flare. The Spec Ops Commander does not have strategic arty and depends on others to make the most of the ability. That can be said of several Commander combinations. Zeroing Arty is one of the game changers out there, and the flare will only partially enable it. I find the IR HT with a Stuka Za Fus is often just as effective.

    The same can be said with IL2 bombing strikes. Someone flies over or pops a flare and two IL2's take down a truck.

    Game changers like zeroing or close the pocket are generally not easy to use most effectively, even with great planning. There is some luck with timing involved.

    Effective use of planes unfortunately also depends on luck. I tend to fly them over my own forward positions and view as they turn towards the enemy territory. This still depends on where the plane decides to enter the map. Single pass recon planes are obviously better as you can determine a more survivable path for the plane.

    The best recon is not the plane, IR HT or even the flare. The best recon is when the enemy does not know he is under observation. Snipers, raketen's, pathfinders, commando's and such infiltrating are so worth the effort....and much more satisfying when the plan comes together. The 4 F's. Find, fix, fight, and finish.

  • #5
    6 days ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 57

    @Rommel654 said:
    Zeroing arty at 45 seconds certainly last longer than the flare. The Spec Ops Commander does not have strategic arty and depends on others to make the most of the ability. That can be said of several Commander combinations. Zeroing Arty is one of the game changers out there, and the flare will only partially enable it. I find the IR HT with a Stuka Za Fus is often just as effective.

    The same can be said with IL2 bombing strikes. Someone flies over or pops a flare and two IL2's take down a truck.

    Game changers like zeroing or close the pocket are generally not easy to use most effectively, even with great planning. There is some luck with timing involved.

    Effective use of planes unfortunately also depends on luck. I tend to fly them over my own forward positions and view as they turn towards the enemy territory. This still depends on where the plane decides to enter the map. Single pass recon planes are obviously better as you can determine a more survivable path for the plane.

    The best recon is not the plane, IR HT or even the flare. The best recon is when the enemy does not know he is under observation. Snipers, raketen's, pathfinders, commando's and such infiltrating are so worth the effort....and much more satisfying when the plan comes together. The 4 F's. Find, fix, fight, and finish.

    While i am quite ok with the combo.
    Its fine that you can combo 2-4 abilities.
    Form a combo all you want tbh i don't really care.
    That is why its called team work.
    My main concern is the performance ratio vs recon planes and its cost and deniability.
    This does not concern allies only, Im including AXIS recon loiter/run too.

  • #6
    5 days ago
    Rommel654Rommel654 Fort Eustis, VAPosts: 848 mod

    Certainly an easy flare that you can fire in the FOW with no pre-requisites will more easily meet simplistic recon requirements.

    Not having recon planes would probably save many a monitor from players smashing them after their own planes crash into their favorite squads.

    Fortunately there are only a couple of doctrinal choices that use can flares this way, and I don't think anyone would argue that this is easiest. Just because it is the easiest, does not mean in all cases it is the most efficient. Planning how you get your intel is as important as planning how you will destroy enemy forces. As efficient and easy as the Spec Ops Flares are, they are not as efficient as Soviet Spy Network for intel.

    You can't standardize performance ratio (I assume you are talking Ammo expenditure) with flares to planes to radio intercept to spy network to trip flares to mortar, sniper, panzerfusiler, rifleman flares, to spotting scopes as their ratio covers more than just sight. Most flares are 8 seconds.

    I don't know if you can make an accurate comparison except in the narrowest of criteria.

  • #7
    5 days ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 57

    @Rommel654 said:
    Certainly an easy flare that you can fire in the FOW with no pre-requisites will more easily meet simplistic recon requirements.

    Not having recon planes would probably save many a monitor from players smashing them after their own planes crash into their favorite squads.

    Fortunately there are only a couple of doctrinal choices that use can flares this way, and I don't think anyone would argue that this is easiest. Just because it is the easiest, does not mean in all cases it is the most efficient. Planning how you get your intel is as important as planning how you will destroy enemy forces. As efficient and easy as the Spec Ops Flares are, they are not as efficient as Soviet Spy Network for intel.

    You can't standardize performance ratio (I assume you are talking Ammo expenditure) with flares to planes to radio intercept to spy network to trip flares to mortar, sniper, panzerfusiler, rifleman flares, to spotting scopes as their ratio covers more than just sight. Most flares are 8 seconds.

    I don't know if you can make an accurate comparison except in the narrowest of criteria.

    Kindly don't compare squad flare to commander abilities. They got range restriction and vulnerable to attack.

    OKW Spec Ops Flares does not have any restriction. You can Flare anywhere with the same function of Recon planes. But much cheaper and superior. It does not have a blind spot as recon plane got Triangular sight which you need to timed your Arty abilities . It cant be shot down, you cant even know that flares are fired till you got a unit killed by a Stuka Divebomb. When recon plane pass you can move your troops right away. The sound of the plane and Map indicators help us avoid arty stikes.

    Soviet Spy Network does not cost 60muni and it does have a pretty long Cooldown.

  • #8
    4 days ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 1,769

    The brit flare ability that reveals all frontline sectors on the Artillery commander would seem to be similarly cost effective. It's much more expensive but reveals a TON of area.

  • #9
    4 days ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,008
    edited December 8
    the flare lets you see exactly whee you want, for a reliable and set duration, with no possible counter play, for pretty cheap. bonus point because unless you are seeing the unit, you dont know its being reconed (no plane flying over the map to let you know)

    be better if it was an "IR flare" with that kind of recon or something that lets you know where the enemy is without showing you everything to bomb (extremely exploitable in team games ATM)

    bring it inline by giving IR STGs the ability to shoot through smoke and stuff if highlighted (would go well with their poison smoke and the new LEIG smoke rounds) but lets them make heavy use of med truck

    just imagine how glorious it could be:

    stg obers begin to advance.
    radio silence activated.
    smoke falls, **FLASHshhhhhhhhhhhhh**... as the flare falls slowly
    gun fire from the smoke, no markers on the mini map
    leig barrage incoming! but from where?!?!?!
    **shhhhhhhhhhhh**
    more bullets, confusion.
    CRASH from behind,
    more smoke... but it burns your lungs and eyes....
    more shooting!
    WHERE IS THAT FIRE COMING FROM?!
    **shhhhhhhhhhhfft** goes the flare as it burns out.
    carnage and chaos is all that remains as the smoke clears
    only the static of dead air on the coms...
    the radio slowly urps to life and your forward observers report a panther with command markings has arrived on the front with more of Berlin's very best in tow....
  • #10
    4 days ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 57

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    The brit flare ability that reveals all frontline sectors on the Artillery commander would seem to be similarly cost effective. It's much more expensive but reveals a TON of area.

    The thing is, you already know what are in the front lines just move closer you will know right away
    because its kinda killing you and hammering you down to the dirt.

    Behind the line is where the goodies at. Med truck and Majors, Katys, Calliopes, Land mattres and more weak and valuable units/target. All the brute unit are in the front line and all the flimsy one are behind it.

    So brit Flares kinda pointless. Tried it once, never did used it again. Also the commander kinda not a good choice at every moment at any time of the game.

  • #11
    2 days ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 155
    edited December 10

    It should replaced with recon pass i think, just makes the recon planes for other factions look silly compare to this ability for 60 mun that can't be shot down or something. Or give the ability to storm/volks when using this commander so they can fire a flare, at least they need to get close to the target they want to reveal and makes it at same time more revarding.

    Even with the usf Major's recon pass for 50 mun its just random where it flyes over, you can't decide which direction it should fly, and top on that its kinda buggy. U need to be really fast and kind of lukcy if you should be able to press out someting more where it pass, its like if you press out arty for exc in the corner of the viewed line where it pass its just ignore call it in. But thats an other story..

  • #12
    1 day ago
    jamesjames Posts: 3

    +1
    flare OKW from panther command , is not fair.
    cheap and invincible and again cheap (60mun ! lol ) ! AND everywhere they want, without cooldown !

    a recon by plane like every body.
    OR
    around a truck emplacement. with maximum distance ! (?) :)

    PLEASE RELIC, change it ! thanks ! :)

  • #13
    18 hours ago
    dingyidingyi Posts: 1
    Agreed,this 60MU flare's
    lengthy duration make it much easier for team-bombing compare to other strategic recon. Please make it in line with others or give a counterpart to allies.
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