Weakness in design

#1
3 months ago
VipperVipper Posts: 3,599
edited January 10 in General Discussion

In this thread I would like to point out some issues that imo seem to be of poor design and could easily be improved. Although some issues may have affect balance the issue here is more about dosing and less about balance:

1) "Jaeger Light Infantry Upgrade (G43)
G43s are having their timing adjusted to be more in line with other weapons, while being made more useful for elite German troops.

Now provides 3 G43s for Panzergrenadiers. Takes up both weapon slots.
Panzergrenadier G43s from 45 to 60
CP requirement from 1 to 2"

From a design point of view what is the point in replacing 3 out 4 weapon with g43s?
Why confuse things and have a unit that behaves differently depending on which model dies first, when you can replace all 4 and adjust DPS accordingly.

And why is worth 60 munition to replace weapon that is better below 27,5 range, while storm troopers replace 2 K98 and the same per weapon? For bonus sight?

If the value of ST44 is 25 munition per piece spend 60 munition to replace it with a lesser weapon.

And why storm-troopers still have a weapon slot while Pgs do not?

And why Storm-troopers can spent another 100 to get 2 MP44?

Why storm-troopers do not get interrogation?

The current situation make thing messy for particular reason and is sing of poor design.

There are many way to make thing less complicated like:
The upgrade for PGs give them 5 G43 (about SVT,M1 level) and they size is increased to 5. So it becomes a trade off lower DPS for more durability.

The upgrade for Storm troopers gives 4 and they can not upgrade to MP 44 or they can buy the upgrade 2 weapon at a time.

One can even remove the upgrade from Pg if it does not work well or even more it to pioneers and have interrogation available to all infantry regardless of g43 upgrade or not.

Comments

  • #2
    3 months ago

    Yeah, I find the pgren g43 to be quite a useless upgrade. I think they should do what ptrs have and make pgren g43s better than gren g43. Make them exceptionally good long range rifles and/or give them the OKW jaeger sniping mechanics. That will give Ost something to contend with the WFA Rambos.

  • #3
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,599
    edited January 12

    2) "Ambush Camouflage (Affects Storm, Jaeger Infantry and Encirclement)

    • Renamed Ambush Training
    • Camouflage cost from 30 to 20.
    • Camouflage now works when moving. Requires all squad members to be in cover.
    • Infantry can now use the Sprint ability. No upgrade required. Snipers and weapon teams cannot sprint.
    • Ambush bonus requires squad to be stationary and must have been out of combat for 10 seconds."

    From a design point of view think we are confusing ambush with cloaked squad wipe hunting. Ambush "training" should allow unit to set up stationary ambushes and wait for the enemy to walk on to them. It should not allow them to actively move cloaked, launch devastating grenades and continue to hunt down any survivors.

    This misconception probably started with commandos "ambush bonuses" who if I am not mistaken was originally designed to be used in conjuration with a melee weapon.

    Being squad wiped from cloaked units with very little reaction time is actually poor design. Allowing cloaked unit to "sprint" is poor design.

    My suggestions would be:
    Cloak units should have the powerful explosive grenades replaced by DOT ones. (including commandos)
    Sprint removed from camo units
    Moving while cloaked restricted to "recon squad only"
    Camo upgrade could in addition provide some defensive properties like target size
    Could be extended to include Paks and pioneers.

  • #4
    3 months ago

    @Vipper said:
    2) "Ambush Camouflage (Affects Storm, Jaeger Infantry and Encirclement)

    • Renamed Ambush Training
    • Camouflage cost from 30 to 20.
    • Camouflage now works when moving. Requires all squad members to be in cover.
    • Infantry can now use the Sprint ability. No upgrade required. Snipers and weapon teams cannot sprint.
    • Ambush bonus requires squad to be stationary and must have been out of combat for 10 seconds."

    From a design point of view think we are confusing ambush with cloaked squad wipe hunting. Ambush "training" should allow unit to set up stationary ambushes and wait for the enemy to walk on to them. It should not allow them to actively move cloaked, launch devastating grenades and continue to hunt down any survivors.

    This misconception probably started with commandos "ambush bonuses" who if I am not mistaken was originally designed to be used in conjuration with a melee weapon.

    Being squad wiped from cloaked units with very little reaction time is actually poor design. Allowing cloaked unit to "sprint" is poor design.

    My suggestions would be:
    Cloak units should have the powerful explosive grenades replaced by DOT ones. (including commandos)
    Sprint removed from camo units
    Moving while cloaked restricted to "recon squad only"
    Camo upgrade could in addition provide some defensive properties like target size
    Could be extended to include Paks and pioneers.

    If ambush training actually allows you to retain camouflage while moving, it is probably op. I have only used camo units only whey stationary so I'm not sure if this actually works. In an optimal world, I'd agree to nerf this, however, there is likely no allied nerfs coming so............... Ost should hold onto whatever perks until we see any allied compromises in their units.

  • #5
    3 months ago
    BaálthazorBaálthazor The shoreline by the river Styx.Posts: 1,092
    edited January 13
    @1ncendiary_Rounds
    It does actually work like that, HOWEVER, only when every single member of said squad is in cover AT ALL TIMES. Which as we all know is practically impossible... There will always be the odd goofy in the squad that sticks his foot out of cover, because fuck it!

    Bearing this in mind, the ability looks quite nice on paper idd, but in reality it's a bunch of hogwash.
    Its just another example of an ability buff given to the axis, which falls flat on its face either due to it being poorly implemented or(much worse!) due to the design team wanting to make something look good, but without any actual benefit.
    I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, but at this point I'm certainly not ruling anything out.

    Besides that, I just can't get it into my thick skull as to why the allies needed to get buffs which was easy to implement and easy to do, while the main buffs the axis got, was extremely convoluted and complex(case in point) and very difficult to even implement properly..?! :o
  • #6
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,599
    edited January 13

    "Fallschirmjäger
    Fallschirmjager are being adjusted to have better stock performance with only minor changes to their veterancy.

    Now paradrop into the field instead of infiltrating.
    Cost from 440 to 380
    Reinforce cost from 38 to 36
    Population from 8 to 9
    Received accuracy from 0.87 to 0.83
    Faust range from 15 to 18
    Camouflages in cover when stationary; requires no veterancy
    Veterancy 5 range bonus removed
    Veterancy 3 received accuracy bonus removed
    Veterancy 4 accuracy bonus moved to veterancy 3
    Veterancy 3 now provides a -20% weapon cooldown
    Veterancy requirements from 760/1520/3040/3800/5054 to 600/1200/2400/3000/3900"

    (It seems that healing was moved to vet 4 also.)

    I really see little reason to introduce the paradrop mechanism without a "pathfinder" type unit that can set up a beacon.

    From a historic point of view there where very few paradrops after Creta while the chance of losing squad member during landing makes aggressive drop difficult.

    One can introduce beacons (from a camo unit?) or reduce cost (cost of unit is set to 304)and turn it into to a normal call in unit or rollback to infiltration mechanism.

    Any problems from infiltration can be fixed by replacing the bundle grenade with blindkopf grenade or some other DOT.

    The FG42 could also be redesigned to perform as it did in real life instead of using a smg profile. It could be turned into a high accuracy semi-automatic weapon (carbine profile) and one could add an ability that would turn it into full for the duration. Two of the can also be replaced by k98 or MP40 or MP44 (all of which where used by Fallschirmjäger)

    Airborne assault in no way replaces the ability to reinforce in beacons.

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