[1v1] Tiger ACE is too cheap

#1
6 months ago
SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 418
edited April 7 in Balance Feedback

The unit is too easy a get out of jail card. The bleed doesn't seem to affect the other player at all and completely tips the tide unfairly.

Comments

  • #2
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,430
    Its a hard unit to balance for sure, but i actually think its in a fine place. You beat it by going after its support. If its a hail mary it shouldnt have TOO much support meaning be where its not.

    Also allied TDs are more than a match for the super late game tank.
  • #3
    6 months ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 418

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    but i actually think its in a fine place.

    If you think that then I'll agree. Faymonville meant it could be anywhere very quickly. And I was playing...Brits (no snares charging wherever it pleases).

  • #4
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,430
    I would argue that vs the tiger ace is one of the only times it might be a good time to throw up a 17lb and other emplacments because every bit of bleed you can inflict is paramount to crippling the TA.
    As brits you still have mines as a defensive measure and sapper piats are extremely efficient.
    Thing about the TA is that its SUCH a late game unit that you should already have the means to counter it by that point. Sure its a vet 3 tiger, but its no more than that.
  • #5
    6 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,063
    edited April 11

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    Thing about the TA is that its SUCH a late game unit that you should already have the means to counter it by that point. Sure its a vet 3 tiger, but its no more than that.

    If the opponent should already have the means to counter it, shouldn't the person using it have just as many tanks of their own? IMO the income penalty should be scrapped and it should just be made really expensive. Vet-skipping was removed in every other form it came in, if we are going to decide that the Tiger Ace somehow doesn't deserve the same treatment, it needs to stop costing nothing but manpower.

    Again this unit/cmdr is an example of something that applies itself very differently between 1v1s and team games (kinda like heavy TDs). The penalty and MP cost make the Tiger Ace decision actually require some thought in 1s. In 2s, this commander is still on every other roster I see. It's massively easier to save 800mp, and it can be combined with some other heavies from a teammate.

    Back in the fall balance preview, they gave it fuel cost and gave all tanks that price premium if you didn't get tech. I am still bummed that this didn't go through, it was probably the change I was looking forward to the most personally.

  • #6
    6 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,430
    @SkysTheLimit aye they could/would/should but the trade off is that you only get 1 and only at 17CP. The fuel cost is nill but 800mp for ost can be pretty high by that point due to vetted allied infantry and the plethora of wipes that RNG may decide as tribute.
    Is it perfect? No, but the best way to combat it remains to be zoning it. Allied TDs are more than a match for it and its little more than a vet3 tiger now anyways. They dont pay the fuel for it but it also hasnt been throat fucking your infantry for the last 5 CP either. Its a unit to tip the scales, used too soon or too late and its nothing but a 1 time speed bump. I personally really like that it has a bit more to it than just calling it in to consider.

    If it was changed a king tiger could be cool in its place, but a another plain ole tiger commander (theres 5 currently, a few more and the tiger will be availible in as many doctrines as the king tiger is) and thats no fun. Plus being a normal tiger that can be called in infinite times in team games would make the commander devastatingly strong in team games i fear. Stun nades, g43s, infiltration units... It would be a no brainer for sure..
  • #8
    6 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,063
    I don't disagree that it's no longer a huge issue. I guess I'm just a stickler about consistency. And the price premium change was more about call-ins in general.

    I wouldn't want the TA to be changed unless those premiums from the FBP were applied too all call-ins. IMO that would've been the best change in the whole patch. I think it really would've forced some diversity into the meta, especially in team games where heavies are much more common.
  • #9
    5 months ago
    NhikaNhika Posts: 16

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    As brits you still have mines as a defensive measure and sapper piats are extremely efficient.

    A piat squad can't even repel 1 Panzer 4 and you think it will repel a tiger?
    You know it costs 120 munitions to even get 2 piats on a squad right, and it's really only worthwhile if you hit something in the rear. (Noob bashing essentially)

  • #10
    5 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,463

    Piats cost 40 muni each.
    REs cost 210.

    210mp and 80 muni isn't or shouldn't be enough to stand up to P4 or Tiger.

  • #11
    5 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,430
    And PIATS will repel a p4 every just fine. You should be relying on a sole unit to take on a heavy anyways. You have an arsenal at your disposal. Use it
  • #12
    3 months ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    17 cps is really far into the game. Also, the fuel penalties will give axis a lot of trouble replacing any lost other tanks. Increasing the price to like, 275 fuel and 800 mp would just make it a weak king tiger or inferior to a normal tiger. In addition, if you choose elite armor you cant skip t3 which can be painful as ostheer, since it costs over 100 fuel to tech to t3.

  • #13
    3 months ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468
    edited July 9

    I think my solution is the best.

    Remove it from the game, and replace it with a stock tiger.

    There's nothing "elite" about the doctrine anyway. The tiger ace boosts egos where it shouldn't, especially when it's destroyed. It is way to much of a gimmick in a now watered-down system.

    Furthermore you're never going to balance out this ridiculous unit unless it's given priority over other vehicles. I personally consider it inferior to a normal tiger since it lacks a pintle. However 3 blips of rank are laughable for a one time call-in. Considering the OKW can call in their BIGGER cat as many times as they want, as long as they have the resources.

  • #14
    3 months ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    If the tiger ace was removed from the game then elite troops will become nothing more than a bad lightning war.

    @eonfigure said:
    Furthermore you're never going to balance out this ridiculous unit unless it's given priority over other vehicles. I personally consider it inferior to a normal tiger since it lacks a pintle. However 3 blips of rank are laughable for a one time call-in. Considering the OKW can call in their BIGGER cat as many times as they want, as long as they have the resources.


    If you would rather have a stock tiger, you can use a different doctrins, like lighting war or assault support. I think it is an interesting doctrine since you sacrifice your early and mid game in exchange to have a very powerful lategame.

  • #15
    3 months ago
    eonfigureeonfigure Posts: 468

    Then it should become a bad lightning war. Even still, it's not an end-all fix-all situation. Abilities from other doctrines can be mixed in. The tiger "ace" is an oddball. It's not really a shield, it's not really a sword. If you defeat someone with it, "It's too good" if you lose with it. "It's not good enough." Why not stop all the complaining from both sides and remove it.

    There's just to much of a double standard around here.
    Removing the TA would be a start, it's not our fault there's so many other tiger doctrines. They can be easily modified in a patch. You don't have to move tectonic plates to add in a new ability. They've already done it with ostheer and OKW commanders. Even adding new little icons.

  • #16
    3 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,430
    Make it a command tiger. Give it an aura that inspires nearby troops and call it a day
  • #17
    2 months ago

    I've never used the Tiger Ace as Wehr. Won against it a bunch of times though, it doesn't bother me. The manpower restriction makes it acceptable to me since a smart opponent will concentrate now on wiping your squads, especially engineer squads, and mining the map out. I've been able to turn Tiger Ace's against Wehrmacht that way, making them a big liability instead of a bonus for them.

    The regular Tiger gives me much more stress. Since you can expect it to be supported by whatever Wehrmacht already has and if it's a Pak40 or StuG well you can pretty much rule out trying to beat it with armor. Mine traps are your only shot.

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