Spring Update Balance Discussion

#1
1 year ago
Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 257 admin
edited April 2018 in Balance Feedback

Hey folks,

Please use this thread to discuss the proposed changes and direction of the work in progress balance notes posted here:

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244965/spring-update-balance-preview-changelog/p1?new=1

«13456716

Comments

  • #2
    1 year ago
    VonManteuffelVonManteu… Posts: 159
    edited April 2018

    Finally, after so many years of frustration we get a balanced Sowjet sniper! WOW Thank you Relic, thank you so much Community balance team. That's all we needed <3

  • #3
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,810
    > @VonManteuffel said:
    > Finally, after so many years of frustration we get a balanced Sowjet sniper! WOW Thank you Relic, thank you so much Community balance team. That's all we needed <3

    "Balanced" same as ost, but worse. And costing the same. Ontop of (much needed) counter buffs for light vehicles.
    Im sure we will see at least as many snipers as we see demo charges (as in none, because its effectively removed from the game)
  • #4
    1 year ago
    ShadowLinkX37ShadowLin… Posts: 1
    edited April 2018

    @Andy_RE said:
    Hey folks,

    Please use this thread to discuss the proposed changes and direction of the work in progress balance notes posted here:

    https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244965/spring-update-balance-preview-changelog/p1?new=1

    Who is on the balance team? Smith, Panther, and fla? And what do you want to achieve with not only this patch but all patches specifically?? Asymmetrical balance? Symmetrical balance? Fun? Skill?

    I ask because I want to know the objective of these patches. If the objective is 180 to my suggestions for balance I'd rather just save my breath.

  • #5
    1 year ago
    EeereEeere Posts: 18
    edited April 2018

    • Panzer IV: 14
    • Sturmpios: 8
    • T34/76: 10

    All already the case. I'm assuming this is leftover from the previous leak

    Edit:

    Damage is being greatly reduced on stun grenades to solidify their role as a stun platform.
    • Model 24 stun grenade damage from 40 to 5

    This seems sensible, but maybe consider making it possible to stun retreating squads/stop retreats to compensate. Could instead decrease the cost and maybe the CD too to account for there being less grens on the field at 7 pop each.

    Pershing: 19
    Seems to me like anything over 18 would be inappropriate considering its just going to get McRolled by the Panther.

  • #6
    1 year ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,051 mod

    Both Panthers are being standardized in reload and accuracy to improve performance; the health bonus at veterancy 2 has been shifted to the unit’s stock performance to improve its survivability against tank destroyers. Now possibly in its best spot yet.

    • Wehr Panther fuel cost from 175 to 185
    • Wehr far accuracy increased from 0.03 to 0.035
    • HP increase from 800 to 960 (all variants)
    • Front armour reduced to 260
    • Veterancy 2 +160 HP bonus replaced by +10% armour bonus
    • OKW Panther reload from 6.1 - 6.4 to 5.2 - 5.6
    • Rear armour reduced from 110 to 90 (all variants)

    Possiblity in its best spot yet ? Its in a pretty bad spot atm and reducing it's frontal armour while making it more expensive won't do anything to fix that. It's not going to be more useful in 1v1s and it's going to move back towards what it was in 2v2 games which is a wall to soak up damage.

    The Panther NEEDS DAMAGE, it needs to be able to deal it out if you want it to be genuinely useful, to be in a genuinely good spot. Or it needs to be a lot cheaper, making it more expensive when it is literally the only tier 4 Medium tank and thusly already difficult to get your hands compared to every Allied Tank destroyer and AT gun that can EASILY penetrate the frontal armour while it can't do any notable damage back, is not putting it even remotely near its best spot yet.. ever

    Honestly along with the StuG nerfs this seems just as utterly tone deaf as the december balance patch. I mean you're claiming the StuG has any armour worth mentioning. It's got.. 140 ? Like it's basically nothing except against the T34/76. I mean if you're going to nerf the RoF of the StuG, Buff the armour so it is actually strong. Right now you can just drive at a StuG and shoot it to bits, you don't even need to flank it. Its RoF is all it has going for it. You already had counterplay, get AT Guns, anything AT and engange it. Or flank it. Or just engage it head on in a lot of cases. All you are achieving with these changes is removing most german threats to enemy armour and further cementing the Panzer IV as the unit to be aqquired. Because nothing else will be.. Remotely useful.

    Honestly the only thing this patch will seemingly fill will be snipers. Most of the other balance changes barely touch upon actual issues while continuing the trend of just nerfing whatever the Wehrmacht has left that actually performs well.

    I mean you are aware that a current German strategy is to simply skip tier 2, this will do nothing to fix that. Nor will it make Tier 4 more attractive. Especially when you are also nerfing the Sturmpanzer IV ?

    Never mind that the nerf to the jackson amounts to a light slap on the wrist when the unit never should have been buffed in the first place

    Also your nerf to the USF mortar hardly counts as that and you're not touching the riflemen either. Like USF is likely going to be crazy next patch since Wehrmacht will now have no serious way of actually stopping the jacksons or even Sherman spam while Riflemen with BARs just roll the rest.

    So yeah. I don't really see this patch fixing any of the Serious Wehrmacht issues at all and for the most part just.. Compounds them. It'll be nice that snipers are less broken, but Wehrmacht TIer 4 will still be effectively a waste of resources and more than anything you will now be pushed towards spamming Panzer IVs.

    I mean nerfing the StuG because of its strong armour ? Were they playing CoH1 ? The StuG in Coh2 has no armour worth mentioning.

    This just seems like another tonedeaf patch that will be pushed through no matter what feedback actually says to be honest, so not sure why we are even getting a discussion post on this.

  • #7
    1 year ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 123
    edited April 2018

    Hello! Dear Developers of Relik.
    Can you change the Soviet Technique T-34-76 and T-34-85 The ability to "Capture Points" on something else. ???
    First veteran bonus or new ability.
    And then use the "Capture points" does not affect the effectiveness of the Tanks.

    Unlocks the 'Secure Mode'
    Replace it with something more efficient.
    Example:

    • Damage Bonus
    • Damage reduction bonus
    • Bonus Range
    • New ability "Strengthened technique". (it's like the Wehrmacht's ability to "Hull Down")
    • The new ability of the "Improved T-34 Ramming Manuever". (This ability will be efficiency.What? The main gun will no longer break and the engine stays broken)
    • The new ability of the Commanding Tank (Passive). Gives some sort of bonus for the whole unit (except for the allied one.Who you play with whom they do not get a bonus but only your Units get)
  • #8
    1 year ago
    VonManteuffelVonManteu… Posts: 159
    edited April 2018

    @thedarkarmadillo schrieb:
    > @VonManteuffel said:
    > Finally, after so many years of frustration we get a balanced Sowjet sniper! WOW Thank you Relic, thank you so much Community balance team. That's all we needed <3

    "Balanced" same as ost, but worse. And costing the same. Ontop of (much needed) counter buffs for light vehicles.
    Im sure we will see at least as many snipers as we see demo charges (as in none, because its effectively removed from the game)

    Why is Sowjet sniper worse? You know, that most German infantry squads are 4 men sized and allies have 5-6 men? So why should an ally sniper shoot as fast as the German one? If I'm right, all other stats except RoF are equal now.

    I don't get your point Sir.

    @ImperialDane I really see your point, but i dont fully 100% agree to it:

    TL;DR: Don't touch Panther and increase StuGs range to 60 instead to give Wehrmacht a late game option fighting allied tank hunters.

    For a few weeks now Im playing a new tactic as Wehrmacht, taking Osttruppen commander and skipping T1 and T3. The point is:

    Osttruppen + MG42 are good units to get map cotroll, get into houses and strategic positions and fight the enemy. Cause of skipping T1 I can get faster T2. At this point I get 1-2 PGrens and my Arty Officer. One PGren gets Panzerschreck, so I have something to fight armor.

    => With this patch, PGrens are getting more usefull as AT and AC becomes something to think about. Nice!

    Then I skip T3 and can achieve T4 more quickly. An there's where the fun begins: Panzerwerfers. Either I get one first, and then a Panther, or the other way round. But in the end I play with 2 Werfers and 1-2 Panthers. Those Werfers are great in dealing a lot of damage to blobs, weapon teams and defensive positions at all. Escpecially with arty officer <3 The allied manpowerbleed will break his backbone!

    And the Panther? In combiniation with my PGrens he can fight every allied armor! Except allied tank hunters...

    And thats the real point!

    I play 90% 2vs2 with an OKW mate. And if the enemy goes on massive tank hunters in the late game his job is to get Jagdtiger or JP4 or mass Püppchen because I can't deal with it. 2 Vet Fireflys, Jacksons or Su85 will snack my Panther in seconds. And if not, according to Wehrmachts low repair speed (thats a REAL issue Relic!), my Panther has to sit around 5 minutes in base to get fully repaired. But because of its low RoF and low Damage he can make 2 shots at maximum before I have to retreat him again in order not to loose him. So in the ende my Panther just supports my mate's JP4 or Jagdtiger. Thats one of those great synergy effects :smiley:

    So what can Wehrmacht do on its own? My PGrens with Schreck are 1 option, but in the lategame thats not a real option to deal with mass tank hunters. Due to low damage you need around 4-6 shots to kill one tank and every good player will support his tanks or will retreat quickly enough. So thats nothing you can real count on.

    Pak40 is one option: good range, RoF and Penetration. But seriously? In lategame weaponteams are almost totally useless due to heavy allied artillery. There are just too many soft/hard counters for paks. In good old CoH1 Pak38 could camouflage itself to avoid getting kiled by snipers, mortars, infantry or any kind of artillery. So that could be a good possibility to help Wehrmach againsed allied tanks: Give Pak40 camouflage, maybe at Vet1?

    And then we have StuG. Really cost efficient tank huter. In midgame... Every allied tank hunter in the late game outranges StuG, Bazooka blob, mass PTRS or Piats will eat it for breakfast. And thats IMO the real crucial point! OKW has JP4 to help Panther/P4 to fight tank hunters. But Wehrmacht has no tank hunter except Elefant with range 55/60. And due to low armor/health, StuGs die really quickly.

    So my suggestion is: Let Panther in its actual state. He has good armor and health. He's also the only "heavy mdium tank hunter" with proper AI capability, has fast speed, ACC/DEC and turret rotation. To fix Wehrmachts problems, bring StuG in line with other tank hunters: Give it range 60 and increase fuel to 110 or something like that. It will still have low HP and low Armor, has no turret and almost nothing vs infantry. But with its good penetration and RoF, the range increase will give it a real chance to fight Jacksons and so on! But please don't make Panther a Churchill "I swallow everything you want" - meat shield equivalent...

    In CoH1 Whermacht had StuG 4 in T3 and it worked very well. You could counter it with infantry, paks, artillery or just flank it. So why not make the same with StuG in CoH2? Think about it.

  • #9
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,810

    @ImperialDane said:

    I mean you are aware that a current German strategy is to simply skip tier 2, this will do nothing to fix that. Nor will it make Tier 4 more attractive. Especially when you are also nerfing the Sturmpanzer IV ?

    scatter from 2.5/6 to 6.4/7.5
    yupp. wouldnt want a t4 AI only unit's vet locked ability designed to punish stationary enemies to be reliable now would you?

    its like the katy nerf. lets make the super RNG barrages over time less spooky so players have time to react more

    pwerfer launches all its bigger, better, suppressing rockets in 1 barrage causing wipes on almost anything that didnt retreat and pinning things nearby

    Walking stuka obliterates combined arms defensive line in a single well aimed barrage

    low cost, early fielded land mattress combines WP with a normal barrage (cause they are so cheap) to wipe everything in the area as it trys to run away

    calliope uses its armour and health pool to drive up to point blank to ensure that everything hit is 100% dead

    wouldnt want that scary ole katy to punish players tho it might end up getting vet 1 so it can pay munitions to slightly aim fewer rockets!

  • #10
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,810

    @ImperialDane said:

    This just seems like another tonedeaf patch that will be pushed through no matter what feedback actually says to be honest, so not sure why we are even getting a discussion post on this.

    ALSO

    im 150% sure this is exactly what will happen.

  • #11
    1 year ago
    BlanCatBlanCat Posts: 21

    Now, bofos have some bug

    bofos AA dmg is 0

    fix this bug, Lelic

  • #12
    1 year ago
    VonManteuffelVonManteu… Posts: 159
    edited April 2018

    -

  • #13
    1 year ago

    @BlanCat said:
    you are just another axis crying boy

    want to SUPER PANTHER? kill every allies armours so easily?

    PANTHER already have 800hp, 320armor and high speed.

    oh sry, 960hp ^~^ nice job crying dude.

    At the same time, jackson have range nerf(60->55) and sight decreased

    now, you can just throw panther and will destroy all allies tanks

    And you will say " I am the best player, my skill is good, i am top player! "

    https://clips.twitch.tv/UglySpoopyScallionOMGScoots

    watch this clip
    can you see that crying someone? its YOU

    YOU really think you lost the game because panther is weak?

    That is your FAULT

    jackson was bait and you just eat bait even 1 AT gun and 2 sherman in ambush and waiting

    Throwing panther and just hope panther kill everything

    but hey, fucking OP jackson kill my beatiful panther!!

    yep, jackson must be nerf!!

    so jackson's range and sight nerfed even its a 140 fuel TD. satisfying?

    jackson is open-top tank, why they have to have short sight? can you answer me?

    beacause my beatiful panther killed so easily?

    If you want to deal with allies TDs, plz USE infantry and AT gun

    Do not throw panther, idiot

    How are you not banned yet, seriously? And you post a clip about OKW in a discussion about Wehrmacht.
    You should be banned for being an idiot at least.

  • #14
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,810

    @VonManteuffel said:
    Why is Sowjet sniper worse? You know, that most German infantry squads are 4 men sized and allies have 5-6 men? So why should an ally sniper shoot as fast as the German one? If I'm right, all other stats except RoF are equal now.

    I don't get your point Sir.

    exactly. all stats are the same but RoF. so you pay the same, for a unit that is worse at its only job. also bost axis factions can field 6 man squads,a nd ones main unit is a 5 man squad, similarily unless the brits pay fuel, they have 4 man squads as well. to top that off ost snniper gets an AOE attack that also causes suppression (helps thin out blobs a bit) and an MG in t0 to help defend it

    soviet sniper needs to side tech for a worse MG and its vet 1 is flares
    you know what else has flares? the soviet mortar, the one that is 2/3 the snipers cost, 6 men, has smoke, can engage beyond los, has mg support AND doesnt require vet for the flares. knowing that, when will you personally build a soviet sniper?

    you may say " hey but the brit sniper is slower firing than the ost sniper and its fine" but you are forgetting that it can pen light armour, has flares, its vet 1 is a vehlce crit AND at vet 2 its target size falls by 1/3 (and gets a better LOS buff)

    soviet sniper lacks anything defining, its quite literally a worse version of the ost sniper from individual unit to support. inferior in every way but still costing the same

    imagine if the t34/76 and the t34/85 cost the exact same. would that be right?

  • #15
    1 year ago

    @BlanCat said:
    okw or Wehrmacht is not important

    Panther is Panther

    Ok, discussing this further is pointless.

  • #16
    1 year ago
    LorenLoren Posts: 22
    edited April 2018
    The vast majority of users are fanboys of a particular faction. So when you accept these community opinions, you have to approach them at the same time, such as statistics or stats. Currently, Panthers have fast mobility (faster than M36 Jackson), medium range, highly armored and good health points, little helps on anti-infantry capabilities, and a price of 1.25 times that of other faction tank destroyers. If you offer a better firepower here, I would really like to ask you about the counter unit of the Panther.
    If Panther is the counter unit of a surely Allies Tank Destroyer and is equipped with firepower for good maneuverability and durability, what can the Allies Faction stop this unit? On the contrary, does it not demand too many options compared to the counters that other tank destroyers are experiencing?
    Allies factions tank destroyers weak at flanking, frontline collapse, AT guns, anti-tank infantries. is it needed more?
    Panthers, on the other hand, are much less vulnerable to these weaknesses due to their ability to survive in-fighting and out-fighting both in Tank Destroyer engagement and in their ability to survive, which is much more beneficial to making Allies user mistakes. Is this not suitable for 1.25 times price?
  • #17
    1 year ago
    EujeneAlexanderEujeneAle… Posts: 6
    edited April 2018

    @Loren said:
    The vast majority of users are fanboys of a particular faction. So when you accept these community opinions, you have to approach them at the same time, such as statistics or stats. Currently, Panthers have fast mobility (faster than M36 Jackson), medium range, high armor and health points, little helps on anti-infantry capabilities, and a price of 1.25 times that of other faction tank destroyers. If you offer a better firepower here, I would really like to ask you about the counter unit of the Panther.
    If Panther is the counter unit of a surely Allies Tank Destroyer and is equipped with firepower for good maneuverability and durability, what can the Allies Faction stop this unit? On the contrary, does it not demand too many options compared to the counters that other tank destroyers are experiencing?
    Allies factions tank destroyers weak at flanking, frontline collapse, AT guns, anti-tank infantries. is it needed more?
    Panthers, on the other hand, are much less vulnerable to these weaknesses due to their ability to survive in-fighting and out-fighting both in Tank Destroyer engagement and in their ability to survive, which is much more beneficial to making allied user mistakes. Is this not suitable for 1.25 times price?

    That is right. I wanna talk about this situation how to people like discussion in this game.
    This patch is chance to bring the user back to the days But in this I was disappointed to see the patch in the patch it is not fair standards could make other people be persuaded to play Company of Heroes 2.
    Even saw this patch log reporting stories of motivation to quit coalition user in Company of Heroes community in South Korea.
    I actually watched the screen shot confirm that I deleted the game, which is a very serious issue.
    Because nobody can not it a good rating for the game of unfair patches.
    Also, it is hard to find a producer as well. The last patch of Jackson was a perfect patch for US users. Most 1vs1 users do not know, but in the last 4vs4 battle it was a perfect balance.
    Even though this balance is perfect, overturning existing patches and changing the meta creates a problem of trust in the manufacturer.
    Therefore, relics want to see exactly what Loren claims. you do not have to choose to banned or prohibited. Be cool to the discussion @CartoonVillain.

  • #18
    1 year ago

    @Andy_RE said:
    Hey folks,

    Please use this thread to discuss the proposed changes and direction of the work in progress balance notes posted here:

    https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/244965/spring-update-balance-preview-changelog/p1?new=1

    I am curious about the process by which you collect opinions as you write. Of course, it's hard to make it public, but it's not all of these articles on the bulletin board, but I wonder if you can minimize complaints about it. I also want to know the tendency of the balance testers in the patch process. I would like to know if it reflects the opinions of the users who actually play the game and reflects the opinions of the testers more. Because the reason for writing here is because we doubt whether our opinion has been reflected. I think the opinion of the last Rifle man's smoke grenade was not properly reflected.
    It's okay to have no answer to my opinion. It might be a company secret. However, I think that your attitude is important for someone who will be able to give you some advanced feedback on Company of Heroes 2 in the future.
    I can not accurately reflect the opinion of the consumer, but at least I want to show my sincerity. In that sense, I look forward to your earnest reply.

  • #19
    1 year ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434
    edited April 2018

    Is the Squad AI what makes them drop to the ground and or take differen't stances when firing? if so I like it as it's not so static, can't it be fixed to not cause issues?

    I was happy to see changes to Hull Down, of all abilites! Until I saw • Offensive bonuses removed (defensive bonuses remain) What? Why?
    _
    • Model 24 stun grenade damage from 40 to 5_
    Ouch.

    Are the pop cap changes decreases? I hope so for OKW as their armies are so small yet the units aren't really matching their price in popcap.

    mortar barrage range bonuses at veterancy have been replaced by bonuses to barrage accuracy great so now there's not much distinction anymore.

    Pack Howie its barrage range has been reduced to make it more vulnerable to pushes. I don't like all these ranges decreases, especially when it's the micro intensive barrage abilites...

    Keep the uniqueness of all indirect fire as it is but nerf the 'auto firing' with these changes mentioned, not the barrages.

    Panther Rear armour reduced from 110 to 90 (all variants) aren't all axis rear armours already way lower than all allied ones @Vipper ? I swear you made a topic about this right?

    Is the CMDP4 really that strong atm?

    Finally an SU76 nerf. Still no munitions cost for the barrage though...

    Can we just remove the lava nade on Volks? It's hard to wipe infantry with it ala all other nades. It was a hastily rushed 'solution' to mg spam in buildings.

    AT Infantry Sections aren't that strong atm?

  • #20
    1 year ago

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    Is the Squad AI what makes them drop to the ground and or take differen't stances when firing? if so I like it as it's not so static, can't it be fixed to not cause issues?

    I was happy to see changes to Hull Down, of all abilites! Until I saw • Offensive bonuses removed (defensive bonuses remain) What? Why?
    _
    • Model 24 stun grenade damage from 40 to 5_
    Ouch.

    Are the pop cap changes decreases? I hope so for OKW as their armies are so small yet the units aren't really matching their price in popcap.

    mortar barrage range bonuses at veterancy have been replaced by bonuses to barrage accuracy great so now there's not much distinction anymore.

    Pack Howie its barrage range has been reduced to make it more vulnerable to pushes. I don't like all these ranges decreases, especially when it's the micro intensive barrage abilites...

    Keep the uniqueness of all indirect fire as it is but nerf the 'auto firing' with these changes mentioned, not the barrages.

    Panther Rear armour reduced from 110 to 90 (all variants) aren't all axis rear armours already way lower than all allied ones @Vipper ? I swear you made a topic about this right?

    Is the CMDP4 really that strong atm?

    Finally an SU76 nerf. Still no munitions cost for the barrage though...

    Can we just remove the lava nade on Volks? It's hard to wipe infantry with it ala all other nades. It was a hastily rushed 'solution' to mg spam in buildings.

    AT Infantry Sections aren't that strong atm?

    lol. Volk have a lavanade is so funny mention of the this year! I agree that.

  • #21
    1 year ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,051 mod

    Lets stay on topic and refrain from launching all out toxic assaults on persons because you disagree with them.

  • #22
    1 year ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,810

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    I was happy to see changes to Hull Down, of all abilites! Until I saw • Offensive bonuses removed (defensive bonuses remain) What? Why?

    yupp. between gutting commander abilities and cutting away pieces of vet im not sure what is going to be left to patch in another cycle or 2. but maybe thats the point......

  • #23
    1 year ago
    LagoLago Posts: 13
    edited April 2018

    Lots of good changes in this patch. Swapping Royal Engineer's obsolete Stand Fast for the very useful Sapper Flamers turns it into quite a good doctrine that isn't dependent on going emplacements to get value out of its abilities. Stun Grenade changes are great: I actually thought they always worked like that what with being called Stun Grenades and all.

    There are a few changes I have some questions about:

    120mm Mortar Decrew - Wouldn't it make more sense just to make this unit decrew normally? It'd have a very similar effect to the current change and would remove the inconsistent behaviour with other mortars rather than make the 120mm even more of an exception to the rules.

    Sturmtiger, ISU-152, AVRE - Why were these units changed? They all seem like fairly minor nerfs but none of these units were in a particularly strong spot to start with, especially the Sturmtiger and AVRE.

    Tank Hunter Sections - If this unit needs changing perhaps there's another way besides putting it at odds with UKF's graphical design and description text. There's no reason for the player to expect a unit called Tank Hunter Infantry Section and which shares the Infantry Section's squad icon not to be affected by Bolster. The same goes for the medic/artillery upgrades: they have the Infantry Section's icon with a big gap in it specifically for these upgrades. If these units are too versatile why couldn't they simply have their AT rifles be made AT only? That'd bring them in line with every other handheld AT in the game save Guards PTRS.

    Command Panzer IV - If this unit's aura is being reduced to a level where it is not of significant impact has the balance team considered simply removing it? If it's providing a very small defensive bonus it's probably better not to have it cluttering the UI and telling the player their units are more durable.

  • #24
    1 year ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,051 mod

    Again, stick to the topic which is the update. Not other people. If you can't make an argument without resorting to personal attacks. Then don't post in the first place.

  • #25
    1 year ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,018

    A 5 range nerf on the Jackson? There's fine tuning and then there's taking the piss - please don't insult my intelligence.

    What's the goal of this patch - exactly? I know it isn't stated - but it's clear we want to fix the Soviet sniper/guards combo, which we have done by effectively killing it completely. Okay - so what about the rest though? Also - what's with the massive amount of spelling and grammatical errors in these patch notes? It all just comes across as... slapdash.

  • #26
    1 year ago
    Are people for or against the complete standardization of indirect fire? Including support guns that cannot retreat?
  • #27
    1 year ago
    ImperialDaneImperialD… Posts: 3,051 mod

    @SquishyMuffin said:
    Are people for or against the complete standardization of indirect fire? Including support guns that cannot retreat?

    I can't say i am a fan of it because it ends up ignoring the differences in factions and their squad sizes, meaning the wehrmacht rather inevitably is the one that gets into the most trouble as it has the smallest squads yet tends to fight bigger ones. So it just seems like it ignores faction balance.

  • #28
    1 year ago

    OKW
    Volksgrenadiers
    Flame Grenade
    • Now requires any completed HQ building

    What is the point of this???
    Wasn't this change added and reverted several times now? Why are they bringing it back? It's not only taking away from OKW's already crap ability to deal with early garrisons, but it also forces people even more to go for the med HQ since you always want flame nades ASAP.

  • #29
    1 year ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 119

    Can a new Soviet Commander, please? Make first aid kits (vet) for the Soviet, as well as 2 new units:

    • ZIS-5B Ambulance car;
    • Sabotage and reconnaissance group (commander).
  • #30
    1 year ago
    FarlionFarlion Posts: 21

    Some of this is good, but it won't change the overall picture. Wehrmacht infantry simply cannot compete late game. Double brens/BARs or the god-like guards will destroy grens, and because they're 4-man squads they will have to retreat or get wiped much faster than Allied infantry. The solution is to simply make grens 5-man squads I don't know why that hasn't happened yet.

    Dane said everything about the Panther. Currently, it's a zombie that is supposed to deal with Allied TDs, but fails miserably at doing so.

    Other changes are weird. The Stug and mortar were the only two things that WM had going for them. Now both are being nerfed. For a faction that is already in a miserable spot, this does not help things.

    And why the nerf on the OKW flame grenade? It's already incredibly difficult to dislodge Allies as OKW in the early game. Especially in a meta that involves plenty of Maxim spam.

  • #31
    1 year ago
    LagoLago Posts: 13
    edited April 2018

    I was directed to put most of my feedback on further reflection into this thread rather than the COH2.org one so here goes:

    I like the majority of the changes.

    UKF Teching
    Manpower costs decreased, fuel costs increased
    I'm unsure about the changes to UKF's teching. Reworking Infantry Sections and nerfing the Centaur is already a major change to the faction given how much they rely on those units. I'd consider putting changes to UKF teching off until a later patch given the potential impact of changing these units on the faction's field presence and therefore their fuel income. Reducing a faction's firepower and therefore their ability to hold the map already indirectly slows their teching.

    Tank Hunter Infantry Sections
    Cannot upgrade with medkits and artillery, unaffected by Bolster
    In my view this change is at odds with the UI. Tank Hunter Infantry Sections have Infantry Section in their name and have the Infantry Section's voice, squad icon and portrait. There is nothing to lead the player to expect that they wouldn't be affected by Bolster. If changes are truly needed to the infantry section please consider simply making their anti-tank rifles anti-tank only. That'd bring them in line with every other anti-tank infantry squad in the game save Guards and deal with them being "too versatile."

    Resupply Halftrack
    Requires weapon racks to drop weapons
    I fear this may defeat the point on this unit in 1v1. It's a risker alternative to weapon racks: it can drop them in the field and reinforce squads but it risks being killed. If you have to tech racks first anyway then you might as well grab your weapons from the racks rather than spend 30 or so fuel on a non-upgradeable halftrack, especially if the teching cost changes go live. If the Resupply HT can't lean on its weapon drops to justify its purchase then it may need its cost or performance as a unit reviewed.

    EDIT: My opinion on this unit has changed a little. The changes to the Bren gun and the resultant increase in the value of the Vickers K may be enough to keep this unit afloat.

    SU-85
    Focused sight changes
    The SU-85 is not a unit that needs nerfs. Focused Sight is already a fairly awkward ability to use: please don't make it more awkward.

    Command Panzer IV
    Damage reduction aura reduced from 20% to 10%
    If this aura is to be reduced in power to the point where it's not majorly impactful I'd consider removing it entirely. An ineffectual defensive aura is just UI clutter. Alternatively, please consider making it a timed, activated ability if it's too powerful as a passive.

    AVRE and Sturmtiger
    Stun on vehicle hit reduced from 5 seconds to 3 seconds
    Given how difficult it is to hit a vehicle with a Sturmtiger shell and how weak these units currently are anyway I'm not confident a nerf is warranted.

    Katyusha
    Minor nerfs to barrage to reduce squad wiping power
    If wiping squads easily is deemed to be an issue then the Walking Stuka is the first unit that needs to be looked at, not the Katyusha.

This discussion has been closed.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

  • © SEGA. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Relic Entertainment, the Relic Entertainment logo, Company of Heroes and the Company of Heroes logo are either trademarks or registered trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.