VonManteuffel's OKW Commander suggestions

7 months ago
VonManteuffelVonManteu… Posts: 158
edited July 2018 in General Discussion

Hey folks,

since hearing from Relics' next CoH² update and their plans about updating some commanders, I am really excited and can't await winter! So I made some thoughts about it and would like to show you them. In my opinion, Ostheer is in a really good spot right now and has many good commanders. That's the reason why I am focusing on OKW. Ostheer can Imperial Dane or Helping Hans do ^^ :smiley: I try to be as short as possible. I am looking forward to you opinions!

Commanders that should be revamped:
Elite Armor Doctrine
Overwatch Doctrine

Elite Armor Doctrine:

  1. Signal Relay: "Boosting signal range briefly reveals enemy vehicles on the mini map." => Should reveal ALL units on minimap, same as interrogation training, and should temporarily boost vehicles' sight range, e.g. by 5 or 10.; This would give this doctrine some kind of reconnaissance which is really needed by OKW. Maybe increase cost from 50 to 60 ammo.
  2. Emergency Repairs: "Vehicle crews gain the ability to repair critical damage on their vehicles. The crew is very vulnerable during this repair procedure." => It's very expensive, takes long and doesn't help much but removing a crit damage. Just make it the same as USF "Critical Repair" or Sowjet "Self Repair", just to bring this ability in line.
  3. High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) Shells: "Tanks are now issued HEAT ammunition for increased penetration." => This ability is the heart of this doctrine. And I don't want to change it a lot, just 2 things: Match this ability with sherman's HE rounds vs. infantry and increase accuracy vs. vehicles. First, because of greater AOE this ability would give this doctrine the opporunity to deal with blobs and heavy infantry gameplay. In the current state this commander is AT only (except the big fat motherf**cker we all know :wink: ). This would increase its usefulness. Second, this ability only lasts for a few seconds. And according to reload time your tanks can make only ~3 shots. For 45 ammo and only short duration I would highly recommend those ~3 shots to hit their target^^
  4. Panzer Commander: "The Panzer IV, Panther & King Tiger can be upgraded with a Panzer Commander that can survey the battlefield and call in coordinated artillery strikes." => First, bring it in line with british tank commander (+10% accuracy, +10% sight) and on top of that, because it's called "Elite Armor", the tank commander should also boost +10% veterancy gained. And for his ability to call in light howitzers, just change it to Ostheers' light artillery barrage and adjust its activation range accoring to tank's sight range. In return, increase cost from 35 to 50 ammo, same as MG42.
  5. Sturmtiger: "Badass Bastard" => Just send him on a diet :smiley:

In conclusion: There shouldn't be changed a lot. I have liked this commander since release, but some abilities cost too much compared to their value. Updated HEAT Shells would also increase this commander's capabilities. And I think those adjustements won't overbuff this commander, will they?

Overwatch Doctrine:

  1. Goliath: "Boom." => Cool gadget, works well sometimes. Maybe decrease its cost to 80 or 75 ammo.
  2. Forward Receivers: "Reveals enemy units passively in the fog of war." => This ability is redundant with "Early Warning", has very short detection range and brings your trucks at high risk without much benefits. Remove this ability completely. My suggestion for this instead: Give this commander an ability to upgrade forward trucks to gain extra ressources (same bonus and costs as chaches; same ability UKF Trucks had in CoH1 [who remembers? :smile: ]). Because of having only 3 trucks and not beeing able to put more on the same territory at the same time, this would be balanced by itself without any costs.
  3. Early Warning: "Points that are under your control are equipped with flares. The flares will trigger when an enemy unit captures your territory." => Just leave it as it is. It's the core of this doctrine and has great impact, especially in 1vs1.
  4. For the Fatherland: "Infantry in friendly territory will receive a defensive buff and movement speed increase for the duration of the ability. Lasts 30 Seconds." => Just remove its restriction "friendly territory". This would give this commander a chance to attack and play a bit more offensiveley.
  5. Sector Airstrike: "Stuka close air support will recon and attack the target area. 1 plane will strafe with machine guns, while another will bomb the area." => Great ability, great randomness^^ The bomber is a kind of lottery and its AOE is such huge that it sometimes hits your own units. On your side of the map. Not good. The bomber also gets shot very easily so your 250 ammo is wasted in seconds. I would suggest to make the bomber a single strafing run, same as british Air Supermacy: Samller area, less randomness and no friendly fire behind your own lines.

In conclusion: This commander would still be overwatching the game with its early warning flares, but with its ability to gather more ressources it would get some strength in late game. In combination with improved Airstrike and For the Fatherland this could be a great symbiosis, but it is also heavy ammuniton dependent, so it shouldn't be OP. And with trucks securing ressource points you bring them at high risk and 250mp for ressource upgrade would prevent this commander from spamming too much Volks.

Maybe you have recognized, I don't like to play around with costs. I think many abilities limit themselves and would therefore be balanced without much channging needed.

So, what do you think? :smile:


  • #2
    7 months ago
    SquishyMuffinSquishyMu… Posts: 434

    You have definitely correctly identified the two OKW doctrines that need some TLC. However I'm not invested enough these days to give an opinion on your suggestions. They seem pretty reasonable. Always thought Goliath was too expensive but balanced. And the Panzer Commander being completely worthless.

    Any suggestions on the completely brand new commander for OKW?

    I'd love to know all the available assets that are coded into the game, in the single player and available mods etc. *cough panzer 3 for wehr *cough :D

  • #3
    7 months ago
    MikeHaggarMikeHaggar Posts: 634
    edited July 2018

    Yeah these commanders are both pretty bad. The tank commander one needs a full revamp, I'm sure there's some interesting lesser-known vehicles that they could put in. Maybe a light scout car for early game and a weird tank like the Nashorn or Jagdpanther or Hetzer for late game.

    The Overwatch Doctrine is also kind of useless feeling but at least the auto-flares and larger field of vision around SWS bases are useful passives.

    I've been finding that the feuerstorm commander is pretty crummy now.

    • Giving flamethrowers to sturmpios just doesn't work. They just can't give up their panzershrecks in the mid-game. Would be much better to give the flamethrowers to Volks.
    • the Volks MP-40 upgrade is soooo much worse than the usual STG-44 upgrade. It doesn't seem to improve their damage output against infantry at all. Again I'd rather give Volks the flamethrowers. Maybe give Sturmpios the ability to put booby traps in houses or something.
    • The LeIG incendiary barrage just doesn't work effectively. At all. If you're lucky enough to somehow get a direct hit with it, it just doesn't do much damage. The Volks' incendiary grenades are much better.
    • The flame Hetzer comes out too late to be useful. It's fun to mess around with, but a Panther or a Panzer IV is always a far better choice for the mid to late game.
  • #4
    7 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,550

    id like the tank commander upgrade to be all that the brit one is/was and more. make it give 10% more exp, los, and accuracy. this commander should be the go to for getting ahem ELITE ARMOUR

    also the forward receivers and early warning could be smooshed into 1 ability i think.

  • #5
    7 months ago
    Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 226 admin

    Thanks for the thoughts!

    We will have an official revamp rules, suggestions and discussions process live soon, don't forget to submit again there!

  • #6
    7 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited July 2018

    @VonManteuffel All ideas/wishes are reasonable. I can't find something that would contradict with a fast imaginary brain-balancing. ^^

    Especially I favorable the price-decrease of the Goliath. I would also say, that verhicles main-gun shouldn't hit the Goliath so easy. PaKs and SU76 etc. one-shot this thing instantly. Only explosives and machine-gun-fire should counter this tiny beast.

    @MikeHaggar Because of leIG18 flame-shell. Since arty makes more damage versus garrisons the ability is obsolet. I would prefer a hollow-charge ability like some years ago. Set the leIG18 into PaK-mode with 50-60 range and give it AT-Munition (maybe same pen and damage as Puma). That would be a cool thing.

  • #7
    7 months ago
    VonManteuffelVonManteu… Posts: 158

    @Andy_RE thanks for your interest! I am looking forward to the process and as a matter of course I will submit there. :)

    @SquishyMuffin, it is hard to think about the new commander as Relic said, there won't be new abilities, just some old one new combined. If I could make a wish, I would like to see an artillery commander with Hummels like Scorched Earth in vanilla :smiley: Such a doctrine is missing in current state, except Fortifications with LeFH, which useless due to too many allied counters...

    @MikeHaggar new vehicles probaly won't make it into game. But a "real" Hetzer is what everyone would like to see, that's for sure :wink:
    Idon't agrre to your thoughts about Firestorm Doctrine. It's a sepcialist commander in need if the right map and the right enemy. Yes, it's difficult to play. But it has its strength, too. LeIG incediary rounds are not worth, thats a balance issue which should be fixed, true. But Firestorm was already revamped so I don't expect too much there.

    @Widerstreit thanks for feedback! Shooting at Goliaths is a interesting point which should defnitely be looked at. Demo charges also have a smaller unit size in order not to get hit too fast, don't they?
    I wouldn't say LeIG's incendiary barrage is obsolet, because setting ground on fire is still very potent versus MG's or AT guns, blobs too. The problem is its damage which must be increased drastically. Same must be done to Mortar HT's fire shell. US phosphorus and Sowjet incendiary artillery are a lot stronger and can be a real threat to your gunline. German fire instead has such a low damage that you can just move out of AOE and nothing happens at all.

  • #8
    7 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    @VonManteuffel True, don't forget phosphor also interrupts the attack of units, even of tanks. And someone said german shock-grenade is op xD Sadly leIG18's ability is still better than SdKfz mortar incendiary round or the fire bombing run by commander.

    Don't forget that demo-charges also have an other play style. Since they lost their permanent camouflage they are more an offensive weapon by put them directly to buildings and bunkers. Like settle-charge. But Goliath has to travel far, is loud and its camouflage and path-finding is bugged.
  • #9
    7 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 267

    @VonManteuffel I would want to use the Elite Armor Doctrine commander if they made the changes you suggest but, like @MikeHaggar I'd like to see the Sturmtiger be replaced by the Jagdpanther from CoH1. It's much more suitable to the concept of Elite Armor.

  • #10
    7 months ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    edited July 2018

    @PanzerFutz Without the ability to use blueprits of CoH1 this will never happen. So...

    One possible option would be to remove the Jagdpanzer 4 with "new" normal Hetzer. Now we can use the Jagdpanzer 4 as premium Content and pimp it.

    This would be more realistic and look better.

  • #11
    7 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 267
    edited July 2018

    @Widerstreit I could live with that.

    I'd want to see them fix the gun values so the Kwk 42 of the Panther and the Jagdpanzer IV (L/70 3068 fps muzzle velocity) no longer gets outranged by the 17 pdr (L/58 - 2950 fps MV), the M3A2 90mm gun (L/53 - 2800 fps MV) of the Pershing and the Jackson, or the Soviet 85 mm M44 (L/51.5 - 2599 fps MV). [It's even more disgusting that this seems to be the case for the Kwk 43 (L/71 - 3340 fps MV) of the King Tiger and Elephant as well (I'm not as sure of this because they seldom go one-on-one).]

    Then the Jagdpanzer IV would truly be Elite Armor.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

  • © SEGA. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Relic Entertainment, the Relic Entertainment logo, Company of Heroes and the Company of Heroes logo are either trademarks or registered trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.