New Commander Thoughts

#1
2 months ago
PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

Here are my thoughts for possible new commanders. I'd like to see commanders that offer some crossover from other factions, combining abilities into a unique package unlike any other commander within that faction. My preference would look something like this:

US: Tactical Air Support Company
(an American version of Wehrmacht Close Air Support)

Supply Drop
Recon Loiter
P47 Fighter Strafe
P47 Rocket Strike
P47 Bombing Run

Wehrmacht: Air Assault Doctrine
(like the OKW Luftwaffe commander but with American Airborne-type abilities)

Weapons Drop (MG42, mortar, Panzerschrek)
Recon Loiter
Fallschirmjaegers (with FG42 upgrade!)
Valiant Assault
Air Assault

Soviet: Breakthrough Tactics
(like the Wehrmacht commander but using Soviet abilities)

Shock Troops
Recon Overflight
For Mother Russia
Vehicle Crew Repair Training
Assault Artillery Barrage (OKW-style)

OKW: Advanced Weapons Doctrine
(mixing some COH2 abilities with some COH1 faves but also Jets!)

Infrared Scopes
Forward Receivers
Jet Strike Loiter (cannon strafes but can't be shot down)
Jagdpanther or Hummel
V1 strike

British: Lend-Lease Armoured Regiment
(giving the Brits a better selection of armour)

M21 Mortar Half-Track
M8 Greyhound 
M10 Wolverine
M7B1 Priest HMC
P47 Rocket Strike (or Typhoon Rocket Strike)

I'd really like to see some of these but, based on the track record of previous revamps, I'll be betting on disappointment instead.

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  • #2
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 11

    The idea behind the Breakthrough Tactics commander is that the abilities should all benefit a concerted assault on an enemy sector. After reading some other players thoughts about Soviet commanders, I can see that my Breakthrough Tactics Commander rehashes too many abilities that are present in other commanders. So, I would swap out some pre-existing abilities with some I've seen in other people's posts.

    Shock Troops might instead be a Commissar Squad with abilities somewhere between an OKW Sturmoffizier and an American Major (hat tip to @Commissar_Squad_RU). A Commissar could boost the combat abilities of infantry in his vicinity like a Sturmoffizier but also act as a retreat point like a US Major. He would also have an off-map strike option, like the US Major or the Wehrmacht artillery officer. To really make him useful, I would also give him medical supplies so soldiers rallying to him could heal themselves.

    The Commissar, along with Vehicle Self Repair, would make Soviet assault forces more resilient in the face of an inevitable counter-attack. Units would be able to repair and heal themselves in the freshly taken sector instead of having to retreat. Fresh conscripts could be folded into degraded units for replacements at the same time as team weapons like anti-tank guns and mortars were brought forward to solidify the position.

    I realise other people would like to introduce truly new abilities and units to the game; I just don't think the designers share that view. That's why I've tried to limit my ideas to thing that already exist in the game or things that were in the first version but which disappeared when they created COH2. This makes it easier for the designers because they don't have to do much except rejig things that already exist. The only truly novel ability I've introduced (which I'd really like to see) is the Jet strafing loiter because I want the OKW to have an airstrike ability which can't be shot down (and it's really cool).

  • #3
    2 months ago
    DarjeelingMK7Darjeelin… Posts: 59
    I like the idea of lend lease armor regimen. The motar HT is exactly what UKF need.
  • #4
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 15

    I've had some more thoughts on Soviet commanders, largely inspired by Comrad's posts from some months back. I like his Logistics Support Tactics commander but, I don't see how any of his abilities are related to logistics. Logistics is the art of getting things where they need to be, when they need to be there. So, I came up with some abilities that I think represent logistics better.

    Logistics Support Tactics

    Industry Push - all munitions costs permanently reduced by 5%
    
    Cargo Truck - same as Wehrmacht version
    
    Repair Station
    
    Manpower Drive - Manpower rate doubled for 1 minute in exchange for munitions
    
    Scorched Earth - Soviet Version of Sector Artillery (Incendiary)
    

    Essentially this commander is the darling of Stavka so, he gets everything a little bit cheaper and easier than anyone else. It costs him less to aquire munitions related items and abilities such as weapons upgrades, demolitions and barrages. If he parks the cargo truck in a fuel sector, he's guaranteed greater access to fuel stocks which makes vehicle purchases easier. The repair station allows him to bring degraded vehicles back into the fight at no cost rather than replace them. The Manpower Drive means that Stavka will give him additional reserves when he needs them. Finally, Scorched Earth represents his access to Stavka reserve artillery, helping him to keep any territory he's taken. Now that's logistics support!

    One last hat tip to @Comrad. His last ability inspired my thoughts about another possible new Soviet commander that is in keeping with my desire to see cross-overs from other factions. I really liked Comrad's Hero of The Soviet Union unit so I've cobbled another new commander around it:

    Red Banner Guards Tactics (a Soviet version of the Wehrmacht's Elite Forces Doctrine)

    Forward Headquarters
    
    Guards Rifle Infantry
    
    Conscript Assault Package
    
    IL-2 Bombing Run
    
    Hero of The Soviet Union Tank - a 3 star JS-2 like the Tiger Ace
    

    This commander represents the best of the Red Army, held in reserve to exploit any breakthrough. In the context of the game though, it offers the Soviets a commander capable of countering the Tiger Ace of the Wehrmacht or the King Tiger of the OKW.

  • #5
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 11

    Reading other people's post regarding new OKW commanders (some of which are very worthy of consideration @gydh56 ), I have been inspired to come up with another one of my own. This one requires no new units but addresses the lack of artillery commanders in the OKW faction while sticking to my theme of cross-overs.

    Artillery Support Doctrine (an OKW version of the Royal Artillery Regiment)

    Sturmoffizier
    
    Artillery Flares
    
    Light Artillery Barrage
    
    leFH18 Artillery
    
    Zeroing Artillery
    

    It might not be as good as it's British counterpart in some respects but in others it's actually better. The Sturmoffizier isn't a tank like the Valentine but, he doesn't need any veterancy to call down an artillery strike. The Light Artillery Barrage isn't as devastating as the 25-pounders with airbursts but, the 105mm leFH is better than a Sexton (even though it's not mobile), so it all balances out. The Artillery Flares only light up the targetted sector, not the whole front line, but I don't see that as a big deal. I usually only want to see the sector I plan to move into anyway and I usually have a pretty good idea where the enemy is hiding if I'm just looking to ruin his day. The Zeroing Artillery is almost identical to its British counterpart (even though it gets more accurate if the enemy is dumb enough to stay still but that doesn't happen very often).

    All in all, this is a commander the OKW is sorely missing.

  • #6
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    OK, so the Sturmoffizier doesn't have a coordinated barrage ability like the Wehrmacht Artillery Officer. This means he's not as useful as I thought in the context of the Artillery Support Doctrine. I would humbly suggest that, if the game designers gave him this ability, it would bring him into line with the other officer units in the game (including those of the original COH) who do have some strike capability.

  • #7
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 11

    After having a little think about it and then reading gydh56's post about a new British commander, I'd like to amend my suggestion above.

    Lend-Lease Armoured Regiment

    M21 Mortar Half-Track
    
    Resupply Half-Track (same as Special Weapons version)
    
    M10 Wolverine
    
    M7B1 Priest HMC
    
    P47 Rocket Strike
    

    I realised that the Greyhound was redundant, given the Brits already have a good armoured car, and was thinking about what to replace it with until I read gydh56's post. The Resupply Half-Track is exactly what I wanted. It's US-made, allows reinforcement away from the base and carries spare weapons so you can upgrade infantry squads without having to recall them. Hat tip to @gydh56.

  • #8
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 14

    Note: This post is not about a new commander but about re-organizing existing commanders. This thread seems like a good enough place to put it because most of the posts are mine.

    I have 7 out of the 8 British commanders in my order of battle. I bought one and was awarded the other three as loot, adding them to the three with which I started. I like most of them; they have a fair bit of variety and they seem to make up for the shortfalls of the standard British arsenal. Only one falls short in my opinion - the Mobile Assault Regiment.

    My dissatisfaction with this commander stems from the insufficient mobility and range of one of his special units: the Land Mattress rocket artillery. The Land Mattress is an assault weapon but, it is slow to move and doesn't have enough range to compensate for this shortcoming. Its saving grace WAS the ability to fire its high-explosive barrage and its incendiary barrage back-to-back, essentially doubling its impact against infantry targets (they've now removed this, making this unit even more piss-weak).

    The lack of mobility means this unit is better suited to defence, even though it's designed for assault. I find the Land Mattress tends to be a one shot affair (if you're lucky) because it has to get close to its intended target and, once the enemy becomes aware of it, it's too slow to get away from any units which are hunting it. It would have been better if it was mounted on a truck or a carrier. This would have allowed it to roll up behind the assault, fire and then quickly scoot away to safety.

    Redesigning the weapon is out of the question at this point but, swapping abilities between commanders could help fix what I see as a problem. This next part is as complicated as some football player trades so bear with me.

    I think the Anti-Building Flame Support should be moved from the Royal Engineers to the Mobile Assault Regiment. The Royal Enginneers would get the Mortar Cover ability as compensation. I would then swap the Land Mattress artillery with the Vanguard Operations Crocodile from the Special Weapons Regiment. The Special Weapons Regiment has the Concentrated Fire Operation Barrage as an off-map strike but it doesn't get this until 12 Command Points. The Land Mattress (at 8 CP) would offer this commander a barrage weapon earlier in the game, particularly as a defense against mortars but also against infantry "blobs".

    The commander would now look like this:

    Mobile Assault Regiment

    M2 Flamethrower
    
    Advanced Cover Combat
    
    Vehicle Crew Repairs
    
    Anti-Building Flame Support
    
    Vanguard Operation "Crocodile"
    

    These changes would make the Mobile Assault Regiment commander a "firestarter" - flamethrowers for the engineers, a Crocodile flamethrower tank and an incendiary barrage. Opposition players would have to be very careful about "blobbing" their infantry against this commander.

    What happened to the Infiltration Commandos? My next post will cover that.

  • #9
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    As I said above, I have 7 out of the 8 British commanders. This post is about the one I don't have - Vanguard Operations Regiment. Some might think it's odd to ask for changes to a commander I don't even have but, this is more about my desire to see cross-over commanders than any dissatisfaction with the commander in question. In examining the Vanguard Operations commander, I see quite a lot that I like. However, the picture of the commander got me thinking.

    The red beret the commander is wearing is that of the "Red Devils" Parachute Regiment. This struck me as odd; not only because there are no paratroops in his special units but also because there are no British paratroops in the whole game. British paratroops fought on D-day as an integral part of Operation Overlord and they were the unit which fought to take and hold the "bridge too far" at Arnhem during Operation Market-Garden. Surely, they are deserving of their own unit and their own commander.

    I don't see any need to change the name of the commander but, a new Paratroop unit would have to be created. It would be a cross between American paratroops and German fallschirmjaegers (4 men with some light gammon bombs and a Bren upgrade). Otherwise, the changes to this commander mostly come from swapping abilities with other British commanders.

    I would give this commander the Infiltration Commandos from the Mobile Assault Regiment, as this is surely a better place for them. I would also swap the Raid Operation with the Air Resupply Operation from the Tactical Support Regiment. Again, this seems like a better fit for this commander. Vehicle Crew Repairs would make way for the new Paratroops unit and the Vanguard Operation Crocodile would simply disappear (it would still be available with the Mobile Assault Regiment, of course). The Forward Logistics Glider and Strafing Support would rightly remain.

    Here's what this commander would now look like:

    Vanguard Operations Regiment

    Infiltration Commandos
    
    Forward Logistics Glider
    
    Air Resupply Operation
    
    Paratroops
    
    Strafing Support
    

    This would now give the British faction a true airborne commander like most of the other factions. (The Soviets miss out for reasons of historical accuracy and the difficulty of having to create all new units & abilities but, as a hypothetical, it would be interesting to see what Soviet Airborne Tactics would constitute.)

    I'd be interested to read anyone's thoughts on this so, feel free to comment.

    *To anyone commenting that the British already have the commandos, I would say this: the two commanders are sufficiently different to have both in the game. Also, historically speaking, the commandos usually came in from the sea, not the air, and; gliders were usually the smaller component of airborne operations, mostly being used to deliver vehicles and heavy weapons.

  • #10
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 13

    For those of you who are interested, the Soviets did have large airborne forces but they were mostly employed as elite ground troops. However, as a hypothetical, I have put together a package of what such a commander might look like. Here it is:

    Guards Desant Tactics

    Partisans
    
    Weapons Drop (Maxim MG, PM41 Mortar, M42 AT gun)
    
    Desantniks
    
    For Mother Russia
    
    IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike
    

    The Partisans would act as pathfinders but, they could also man the heavy weapons from the Weapons Drop. The Desantniks would be like the American Paratroops, a six-man squad with some upgrades to give them some punch (DP LMG's and AT grenades). These are elite troops so, the For Mother Russia ability reflects their tendency to fight harder than the average soldier. Finally, airborne forces usually rely on air support and the Desantniks are a bit light on anti-tank weaponry so, I gave them a Bombing Strike to help with enemy attacks.

    I thought about using Partisan Tank Hunters to boost their AT ability but, 2 other Soviet commanders already have that ability. Plus, regular Soviet forces have plenty of AT capability and players can always scavenge abandoned enemy weapons. This is an exercise in cross-over commanders and I don't want to make this one too powerful. I hope the people who enjoy playing as the Russians will like this commander.

    As always, feel free to comment.

  • #11
    2 months ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    For your logistics support commander, a 5% decrease in munitions for all abilities and weapons will mean little. The repair station is also useless, since combat engineers dont really have combat capabilities. Perhaps they sshould be changed to be more useful. Maybe repair should be replaced by giving an upgrade that gives combat engineers 50% increased repai speed, and the munitions decrease replaced by a fuel drop (even though that ability isn't that useful, since it just gets shot down).

  • #12
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 14

    @gydh56 Thanks for the feedback. I'm never sure anyone reads what I'm posting until someone comments on it.

    I'm open to giving Soviet Engineers an upgrade like the one British Engineers can access but, I do use my engineers in combat frequently. I find flamethrowers work quite well if they get up close and it's very effective at clearing garrioned buildings. It's true they don't have much resilience but they can be improved by scavenging additional weapons. Against MG's they're weak but, if used in conjuction with other units (like a mortar laying smoke), they can still be a threat.

    The repair station is simply a means to repair tanks when my engineers are otherwise occupied - which is quite often in my case. The Engineer upgrade would be useful but my engineers would still be over-worked at times.

    As for the decrease in munitions vs fuel drop question: the fuel drop helps you build faster but, the developers would have to change it so that the planes always enter the map from your base sector to make it work (I believe they should do that anyway). Plus, the Cargo Truck can be used to increase your fuel rate more consistently. However, if the Cargo Truck was swapped for a fuel drop, the decrease in munitions costs would make that cheaper so you could do it more often.

    The decrease in munitions is to help make your units more combat effective through cheaper upgrades and abilities like demolitions, molotovs, satchel charges & light barrages from 76mm arty pieces. Early in the game (before munitions have accumulated, especially on low resource maps) this can make a difference; later, not so much. However, both of the Logistics Support commander later abilities require munitions and they would be set to take account of the munitions cost reduction (in other words, they'd be cheaper) so they could be used a bit more frequently to help late game play.

    I thought about setting the reduction at 10% so it would really make a difference but, I didn't think that would fly with the developers. Besides, this commander was meant as my take on someone else's idea; I doubt it will actually show up as one of the new commanders. Cheers.

  • #13
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 14

    Somehow I managed to delete an earlier post while trying to edit it. It was an explanation of my ideas about a Soviet Breakthrough commander. I'm not going to rehash that post; none of the other new commanders in my first post got such an explanation. However, there was one idea in it which needs revisiting.

    I believe the developers need to seriously consider creating an Officer unit for the Soviets. The Americans have two as part of their standard order of battle and the other factions have at least one as a commander-based upgrade. For some reason, the Soviets miss out - perhaps because they had a much more top-down command structure, historically speaking. Still, this is just a game and such an omission seems odd.

    I would like to see the Soviets have at least one commander with an Officer unit - the Commissar Squad. This isn't an original idea; there is a Theater of War mission that has Commissar Squads and other people have posted new commander ideas which include them. I just want to support the idea of having a Commissar Squad and give my opinion of what abilities it should have.

    I believe the Commissar squad should be a mix of other faction's Officer abilities. It would have the command ability of improving the combat effectiveness of units in its vicinity but it would also have a munitions-based "Not One Step Back!" ability which prevented infantry from retreating while increasing their resilience (decreasing the amount of damage they take). This would be like the Hit The Dirt ability but would apply to all infantry units within the Commissar's range and would only last for a limited time.

    The Commissar Squad should also have a rallying ability, like the US Major, so that Soviet troops don't always have to retreat all the way back to their base. In addition, the Commissar should have a Medical Supplies ability to heal soldiers that have rallied to him. The Commissar Squad could then act as a foward base of support for infantry attacks, using conscripts to replace any losses.

    Finally, the Commissar Squad might also include an off-map artillery smoke barrage. This would be useful, both offensively and defensively, without making the Commissar too powerful (the way an off-map strike might). The Soviets don't have any artillery smoke barrages and this would rectify that deficiency.

    If this unit existed, I would have it replace the Shock Troops from my Breakthrough Tactics commander in my first post. However, there are other commanders who seem appropriate for a unit like this, especially the NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics commander who, in his present state, seems particularly weak. Of all the commanders available, an NKVD commander is the one you would expect to have a Commissar Squad.

    As always, feel free to comment. Any feedback is appreciated.

  • #14
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    I'm reposting this here so all my new commander ideas can be found in one place.

    This is a US commander who has a little bit of everything. The Wehrmacht and the Soviets have commanders who fit this description but, the later factions have a deficiency in this regard (partly because there simply aren't as many commanders). The US needs a commander who brings true combined arms abilities to the game. He might look something like this:

    Assault Support Company

    Reserve Armor
    
    Sniper (or I & R Pathfinders)
    
    M3 Half-Track Assault Group
    
    P47 Strafe
    
    Time-on-Target Artillery Barrage
    

    This gives the player a range of abilities that address specific weaknesses in the US standard arsenal but combines them all in one package. Reserve Armor gives the player access to better tanks (the "Easy 8" is also good but doesn't have the bulldozer upgrade so isn't as versatile). The US really needs a sniper for a host of reasons but, as the designers/developers have an aversion to new units, I'd be willing to see the I & R Pathfinders used in its place (perhaps with a Marksman upgrade for one soldier). The M3 Assault group brings mobility to the infantry, along with flamethrowers and demolitions. A Major can provide aerial reconnaissance which can be followed up with a P47 Strafe to break-up infantry formations. Finally, the Time-on-target Barrage provides an off-map strike package which can be used to support an assault, cover a retreat or break up an enemy attack.

    Feel free to comment.

  • #15
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 16

    I have just been reading and commenting on a post by @Williamz, regarding the addition of an Artillery Officer to the British Royal Artillery Regiment. I like the idea but it did get me thinking about an issue with this game which has always bothered me: units losing their abilities when garrisoning buildings.

    Sometimes this makes sense but, a lot of the time it does not. The only units which don't seem to suffer this penalty are machine-gun squads. Given that garrisoning an MG squad inside a building dramatically improves its effectiveness, this isn't surprising. What is surprising is that Officer units lose their abilities once garrisoned.

    This is just wrong on so many levels. Officers usually want to have the best vantage point to survey the battlefield and this is frequently within a building. Many of their special abilities are call-ins (in other words, using a radio or telephone), something which isn't hampered by being in a building and is sometimes improved by it (by having the radio on the roof, for example). Even those abilities which aren't call-ins (such as the American rifle smoke-grenades) are still feasible from inside a building.

    Officer units are frequently quite weak as fighting units (it's not really the job of senior officers to lead the charge) and garrisoning them dramatically improves their survivability. The longer they survive, the more experience they gain. The more experience they gain, the more they improve the combat effectiveness of the troops under their command. This effect, along with their call-in abilities, is what makes an officer unit so valuable in a battle. In a one-to-one battle, the player with more experienced units and superior command & control will always win.

    So, I'm left with the question: why do Officer units lose their abilities once they go inside a building?

    The developers really should fix this, from both a realism and a playability perspective.

    As always, feel free to comment.

  • #16
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 16

    This is an expansion on yesterday's whinge about officer units, comparing their particular abilities and examining why they shouldn't lose them once garrisoned. Not included in this post are the tank officers nor the "junior" officers units. The tank officers can't be garrisoned so, they are outside the scope of this post. The "junior" officers, such as the American Lieutenant and the Wehrmacht Jaeger Command Squad, don't have true command abilities; they are really just specialised infantry squads. [You can prove this by group-selecting all rifle squads or grenadier squads - the Lieutenant and the Jaeger squads will be included in the group.] I will also not include the American Captain for the same reason, even though it does have some command abilities, because those abilities are not applicable to a garrisoned unit.

    This line of thought was all started by a discussion with @Williamz about the addition of a British Artillery Officer to the Royal Artillery Regiment. The best existing unit with which to compare it is the Wehrmacht Artillery Officer so, I'll start there. This Officer has no inherent command ability, symbolised by this icon

    which appears over units under officer control. It does have the munitions-based Concentrated Fire ability, which gives officer control to units in its vicinity for a limited period. The unit also has three barrages: Smoke, Coordinated and Mortar.

    The Coordinated Barrage allows the officer to use all available indirect fire units at once on a given target; it also over-rides their current state of recharge, in effect allowing the player to use them at twice their normal rate. It is best used defensively because units which are out of range of the target will move until within range before firing. In a defensive battle, the player would have them positioned just behind the front line so, they wouldn't need to move to help break up an attack. Used in attack, the enemy may intercept them while they're moving to firing position.

    The Mortar Barrage is a veteran ability which uses off-map mortars so, it can be laid anywhere on the map (except base sectors). This is a much better ability to use in attack because, it's not range-limited and it doesn't require the player to put any units, other than the officer, in harm's way. The Officer just has to survive battle long enough to gain the experience necessary to unlock it.

    The Officer's other ability is Diversion, which draws fire from enemy units, giving respite to the players own attacking units. It increases the Officer unit's fire rate and accuracy while on the move but, it tends to get the unit killed (I'm still not sure whether it's worth it to use this ability). This is the only ability which this unit should lose while garrisoned, as it requires the Officer to be on the move.

    One aspect which is unclear to me about this unit is whether indirect fire units targeting enemy units within the Officer's line of sight have their scatter reduced (in other words, fire more accurately). They should; it's a big part of a real artillery officer's job to make sure the rounds are landing on target. In my opinion, all on-map indirect fire should be more accurate when the target is in sight of a friendly unit. However, that is a balance issue and I don't wish to weigh in on those debates. Instead, I would suggest that, for the Artillery Officer, it's a vital part of his job and should be one of his inherent abilities.

    I'll finish by stating that, out of the Artillery Officer's five abilities, only one requires him to be outside. So, why does he lose the others when he's inside a building?

    I'll discuss the American Major and the OKW Sturmoffizier in my next post.

  • #17
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 16

    I was going to post my thoughts about the US Major and the OKW Sturmoffizier as one piece but, it's too long so I've split it in two.

    The US Major has some excellent abilities which, given that the Major comes as a part of the standard US arsenal, make the US faction quite versatile. The Major's munitions-based abilites are: an Improved Recon P-47 sweep, a Rapid Barrage, a Fake Barrage and rifle-launched Smoke Grenades. None of these should be restricted by garrisoning. However, his last (and possibly his most important) ability requires the Major to be outside - setting him as the Retreat Point.

    The US Major doesn't exercise control in the same manner as other Officer units do. You won't see the officer control icon over any US infantry units. Instead, the Major exercises sector control - US units get bonuses when fighting in a sector controlled by the Major. This is displayed by the sector changing to orange on the mini-map and text appearing over the resource point saying the sector is controlled by the Major. I believe this only occurs when the Major is set as a Retreat Point so, it is actually counter-productive to garrison this unit.

    Under this system, US infantry never get officer control bonuses when on the attack. They do get some additional abilities (such as increased observation) depending on the circumstances but, they will always fight best defending a Major-controlled sector.

    However, the standard Sherman tank has officer control as a one-star veteran ability that requires no input from the player (it doesn't need to be toggled on and it doesn't require munitions). This off-sets some of the weakness of the Sherman but, it applies to each tank individually. This means only the tanks with veterancy get the bonuses and the player needs multiple veteran tanks to have a decent fighting force.

    A force like this can then be used as the spearhead of an attack, with infantry supporting it. It's not as good as the factions whose Officers provide control to all units within range but, a smart player can still use this system to good effect.

  • #18
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 16

    The Sturmoffizier of the OKW is an Officer unit which does offer control bonuses to the units around it and it can be used offensively because of this, especially if the unit can scavenge some better weapons. Unfortunately, it has only two munitions-based abilities and neither of them is particularly useful. Also, based on what is written in the descriptions of these abilities, they help the enemy as much as they hurt him (at least when used against a large force).

    The first ability is the Target Them marking ability, which concentrates all your fire on a single enemy unit (a red icon, similar to the control icon, appears over the targeted unit). This sounds like something useful except every other enemy unit in the vicinity fights harder as a consequence. You might kill that enemy unit quicker but you'll also take more damage in turn. So, the only time this ability is safe to use is when you're being attacked by a single unit (in other words, when all your units are firing at one enemy squad anyway).

    The second ability is Force Retreat and it is even worse. First, it's Free Toilet Paper Artillery (Propaganda Arty) so, it does no damage (I simply cannot express how much I hate this type of "artillery"). It makes one infantry unit retreat but, yet again, as a consequence other enemy units in the vicinity fight harder. So, if you use this against multiple enemy squads, you can make one of them retreat at the cost of suffering more damage to your own units. Again, this ability is only useful against a single unit and, even then, it is NOT worth the munitions it costs.

    Now, these abilities could be used inside a building if the game allowed that but, the problem is: they are so worthless you'll probably never use them anyway. This means the Sturmoffizier really only has one useful ability and I believe it disappears when the unit is inside a building. What were the developers thinking when they came up with this unit? It feels to me like they couldn't be bothered taking the time to make something useful and just shoved the worst left-over ideas into it.

    Here's what I would have given the Sturmoffizier: a straight up Target Them! marking ability, no bonuses to the enemy; a Burn Them! incendiary barrage; an Attack! ability similar to the US Fire Up; and a Coordinated Barrage exactly like the Wehrmacht Artillery Officer. The only one of these abilities that would be lost while inside is Attack! Now, that's an Officer I could use.

    In the next revamp, this is one unit that really needs an overhaul.

  • #19
    2 months ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    @PanzerFutz said:

    The first ability is the Target Them marking ability, which concentrates all your fire on a single enemy unit (a red icon, similar to the control icon, appears over the targeted unit). This sounds like something useful except every other enemy unit in the vicinity fights harder as a consequence. You might kill that enemy unit quicker but you'll also take more damage in turn. So, the only time this ability is safe to use is when you're being attacked by a single unit (in other words, when all your units are firing at one enemy squad anyway).

    The second ability is Force Retreat and it is even worse. First, it's Free Toilet Paper Artillery (Propaganda Arty) so, it does no damage (I simply cannot express how much I hate this type of "artillery"). It makes one infantry unit retreat but, yet again, as a consequence other enemy units in the vicinity fight harder. So, if you use this against multiple enemy squads, you can make one of them retreat at the cost of suffering more damage to your own units. Again, this ability is only useful against a single unit and, even then, it is NOT worth the munitions it costs.

    I understand why you may not like the sturm offizier, but I have personally been able to find great use out of it. If, so to say, two rifleman squads were attacking my cutoff and I just have a volks and sturm offizier, then force retreat can protect my cutoff. This is very useful if dealing with an annoying mg as well. Target them is a little weak, since the enemy can just retreat them and you essentially just saved 10 munitions from force retreat, but if the enemy is in cover or if you are being suppressed it is useless.

  • #20
    2 months ago
    gydh56gydh56 Posts: 71

    @PanzerFutz said:

    So, I'm left with the question: why do Officer units lose their abilities once they go inside a building?

    The developers really should fix this, from both a realism and a playability perspective.

    I completely agree with you. I've always found it weird that units lost their abilities while in building, and couldn't camouflage in them either. It makes sense that a sniper or other cloak-able squad could camouflage in a building, but it is not so.

  • #21
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    @gydh56 Thanks for the feedback but, don't get me started on garrisoned snipers lest I write another epic post about it. Snipers losing their camouflage when inside a building is perhaps the most insane thing in this game.

    You are right about the Sturmoffizier - his abilities aren't completely useless. The Force Retreat against a lone MG is one of the best uses for it. I just hate Free Toilet Paper Artillery and would like to see it removed from the game completely. I'd rather spend a bit more on munitions to kill the unit than see it run away and come back to haunt me later. Plus, I'll often scavenge any left-over weapons to increase my units' firepower. Free Toilet Paper Artillery denies me that satisfaction.

    My point about the Sturmoffizier was really that he only has 2 abilities (Wehrmacht A.O. has 5, US Major has 4) and both of them have very limited usefulness. I'd like to see the developers make this Officer unit more powerful by giving him more and better abilities, preferably ones which are worthy of his name. Cheers.

  • #22
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    Just a few clarifications to my posts about Officers, in order to head off any comments by the pedantic.

    The Sherman veteran ability is called Radio Net. Shermans that have it get bonuses from the presence of other friendly tanks.

    The US Major can only "lock down" the sector he's in when he reaches Veteran level 3.

    The OKW Sturmoffizier has no veterancy stars under his picture so, there's no way to know if he gains any modifiers as he becomes experienced. This is yet another anomaly for this unit which supports my contention that the developers didn't put much thought into it. We can only hope they rectify this in the next revamp.

  • #23
    2 months ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 54
    The OKW Sturmoffizier terror abilities are a double edged sword. They also increase the accuracy and fire rate of all enemy units near the affected enemy unit.

    Also, a little out of topic, but the Obersoldaten models that follow the Sturmoffizier (and all Obersoldaten in general) also have suppression damage on their Kar98ks (not their LMGs), basically passive volley fire.
  • #24
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Thanks for the reply. I wanted to say the same thing about the double-edged sword but, it struck me that the Free Toilet Paper Artillery ability called Force Retreat really only cuts the OKW player. The other side of the sword is blunt.

    My next post will be another new OKW commander possibility, if you're interested.

  • #25
    2 months ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 54

    @PanzerFutz I will keep tabs on more of your Commander Designs, I have seen many interesting ones so far though I have yet to see many other Ostheer Designs though.

    1. I also think USF Pathfinders should be able to spawn from ambient buildings. They don't have any dangerous CQB weapons and can actually make use of their radio beacons much more effectively.

    2. Until they patch the abysmally fast fire rate of the M4A3 (76mm), I cannot vouch for any commander ideas that have that as an option.

    Still, what do you think about a Logistics Disruption Doctrine for the Ostheer?

    Summary: This commander design allows you to mobilize infantry early on and capitalize on cut-off emphasis and rapid movement with mechanized support. By equipping troops with the necessary fieldcraft to disrupt enemy territories, encircled enemies can be bombarded with zeroing artillery.

    0CP - Counterattack/Breakthrough Tactics
    All Infantry gets a +200% decapture rate [Breakthrough Doctrine]

    2CP - Scoped G43s
    (2 x G43)Panzergrenadiers and (2 x G43) Grenadiers can be armed with 2x G43s, providing increased medium to short range firepower and also increasing sight range. [Using Panzerfusilier-grade G43s]

    3CP - Sdkfz 251 Halftrack with Panzergrenadiers
    Stock Sdkfz 251 with Panzergrenadiers for 500mp and 40 fuel. [Needs tuning]

    4CP - Tactical Movement
    All Infantry gets maximum movement speed for 20 seconds

    12CP - Close the Pocket
    All cut-off sectors bombarded with zeroing artillery [Same as Encirclement Doctrine]

  • #26
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 I like your Logistics Disruption Doctrine commander. It's very suited to infantry-heavy battlegroups - lots of scope for early game battles (if you'll pardon the pun) but some late artillery to help when counter-attacking. I didn't comment in your thread because, you hadn't settled on what you wanted it to look like.

    The Ostheer tends to get overlooked in terms of new commanders because there are already many good ones available. The newer factions have fewer commanders so, there's lots of room to come up with good ideas. However, there is still plenty of room for good new Ostheer commanders so, keep 'em coming. I hope you are posting your ideas on the New Commanders blog page so the developers can see them. The more entries they receive, the better the new commanders are likely to be (even if they're not the one's we submit).

    Here is another possibility for a new OKW commander:

    Spearhead Doctrine

    Heavy Fortifications
    
    Cargo Truck (Same as Wehrmacht)
    
    250 Half-Track (call-in)
    
    105 mm Howitzer Barrage
    
    Panther Command Tank
    
    +[King Tiger]
    

    This commander specializes in rapidly seizing resource points and holding them against counter-attacks. Heavy Fortifications give him the structures necessary to defend captured areas. The Cargo Truck increases the commander's resource rates, especially fuel, allowing him to build the vehicles needed for mechanized assaults. The Half-Track allows infantry units to accompany the armour as an integral part of the spearhead. The Howitzer Barrage can be used to support an assault, cover a retreat or break-up a counter-attack. The Panther Command Tank gives the spearhead formation maximum mobility and decreases the chances of being ambushed. This commander will capture, build and defend early but, he'll thrust the head of the spear into the enemy later in the game.

    I don't include Command Points in my presentations because, that's a balance issue and I prefer to leave that up to the developers. But, for the purpose of ordering them, I use the CP values they already have.

    Let me know what you think. Cheers.

  • #27
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203
    edited July 18

    I like your Logistics Disruption Doctrine commander. It's very suited to infantry-heavy battlegroups. Most of the abilities allow plenty of scope for early game battles (if you'll pardon the pun) but, the artillery gives some punch for late game counter-attacks. I didn't post on your thread because, you hadn't settled on what you wanted for it.

    The Ostheer tends to get overlooked for new commanders because, so many good ones are already available. The newer factions have fewer commanders so, there's more room for new ideas. However, there is still plenty of room for good new commanders for the Ostheer so, keep 'em coming. I hope you're posting your ideas on the New Commanders blog page so the developers can see them. The more ideas for new commanders they receive, the more likely they'll deliver good commanders when they're done (even if they're not the ones we submit).

    Here is another possibility for a new OKW commander:

    Spearhead Doctrine

    Heavy Fortifications
    
    Cargo Truck (Same as Wehrmacht)
    
    251 Half-Track (call-in)
    
    105 mm Howitzer Barrage
    
    Panther Command Tank
    
    +[King Tiger]
    

    This commander specializes in rapidly seizing resource points and holding them against counter-attacks. Heavy Fortifications give him the structures necessary to defend captured areas. The Cargo Truck increases the commander's resource rates, especially fuel, allowing him to build the vehicles needed for mechanized assaults. The Half-Track allows infantry units to accompany the armour as an integral part of the spearhead. The Howitzer Barrage can be used to support an assault, cover a retreat or break-up a counter-attack. The Panther Command Tank gives the spearhead formation maximum mobility and decreases the chances of being ambushed. This commander will capture, build and defend early but, he'll thrust the head of the spear into the enemy later in the game.

    I don't include Command Points in my presentations because, that's a balance issue and I'd rather leave that to the developers. For the sake of ordering them, I use the CP values they already have.

    Let me know what you think. Cheers.

    [This post took longer than expected because the squirrels ate my first attempt when I tried to edit it.]

    {Amended to incorporate @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 's suggestion that the 251 half-track is a better vehicle for this commander. Many thanks to him.}

  • #28
    2 months ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 54

    @PanzerFutz The Spearhead Commander feels fairly well-rounded so far.

    1. Opel Blitz Trucks won't be much of an issue for the OKW due to their stable and cost-efficient manpower. I'm just concerned the allied bias would consider this a resource issue since OKW can defend its borders very well. Aside from that, it works just fine.

    2. I am fairly skeptical on the Sdkfz. 250 Halftrack though. In its current state, it's the weakest halftrack in the game, with the same health as the M3A1 Scout Car and for some reason, models take alot more damage when hit by explosives [AT nades, tank shells, etc.] while inside the 250.

    There are some ways to curb this issue, including,

    • Giving the Halftrack 320 health like the Sdkfz 251 but retain the same armour value. [Instead of 240 health]
    • Allowing the Sdkfz. 250 the ability to reinforce.
    • Occupancy protection from outside fire [Like WC51 Trucks/Sdkfz. 251s/M3 and M5 Halftracks]
    • Replace Sdkfz. 250 with Sdkfz. 251. [No rumble-seats but you can carry more squads per Halftrack to accompany the spearhead]
    1. Heavy Fortifications are always a great tool, especially considering the newer Flak emplacements are immune to small arms fire now. [And can also somehow suppress retreating infantry, someone needs to fix that] Trenches work exceptionally well in defining the front-line.

    2. I assume that the 105 Howitzer Barrage follows the same principle as the one in Scavenge Doctrine. Every 100 munitions in your pool after calling artillery = extra 5 shells. That would economize on the Opel Blitz' supply chain.

    3. The Command Panther would increase the speed of your Halftracks as well as increase sight range. This allows you to go beyond the scope of your defensive line, bringing the term "spearhead" into meaning. At this point, you would have a cohesive army that can operate in the frontlines with very good line of sight and speed.

    If there is only 1 thing I'd change in this doctrine, it would be to swap Sdkfz. 250 with the Sdkfz. 251. You can carry more troops with your tanks and they can reinforce, have better protection and can keep up with tanks [251s have faster movement speed than the 250s, have better armour and protect your troops from mines and explosives completely].

    The 251 Halftrack can also carry MG34s and other Weapon Teams as well, including Raketenwerfer Teams.
    It's also capable of carrying Snipers and Mortars as well. [Although OKW doesn't have access to either]

    That's just my 2 cents.

    Not a bad Design Choice at all.

  • #29
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Thanks for the feedback. You make a very persuasive case. I'll address each of your points separately.

    1. When I first came up with this commander, I had in mind changing the Kubelwagen's Vet Level 1 upgrade to allow it to "park" on a resource point and double the rate for that point (like the Panzer Elite Scout Car from CoH1). I find the Scavenge ability to be a poor substitute for the supply dumps of other factions; it doesn't do much for a player early in the game and wrecks are frequently where there's a lot of fighting going on or where I want to send my tanks. They often disappear before the fuel can be scavenged.

    I realized that many players would find the thought of the OKW having multiple Kubelwagens pumping up their resources to be objectionable, so I substituted the Opel Blitz Cargo Truck in its place. I would limit it to only one on the map at a time so, a player could double the rate for one point only; and, it would count against the pop cap but only a little bit. Doubling just one resource point won't make a huge difference but it would allow the OKW player to get vehicles into action just that little bit quicker, particularly the half-track in the early game and the big tanks in the later stages.

    1. You are spot-on regarding the 105 mm Howitzer Barrage - it would be the same as in Scavenge Doctrine. I wanted OKW doctrine abilities to be the dominant part of this commander, complemented by some Ostheer vehicles (particularly the half-track, which the OKW is sorely missing)

    2. I wasn't aware how bad the 250 is in comparison to the 251. I thought the speed and armour were similar but, now that you've explained how different they are, I wouldn't want the 250 either. The whole point of the half-track was so the infantry could keep up with the tanks during spearhead attacks (I believe the term the Germans used translates as "armoured wedge" but I like spearhead more).

    Two things about the 250 led me to choose it: that the occupants could shoot out of the vehicle and that it couldn't be upgraded to a flamethrower. I also thought that, carrying only one squad, it would be less objectionable to those who think the OKW is already too powerful. I didn't even think about reinforcements but, that's a very important plus. Based on what you've written, having the occupants be able to shoot out of the vehicle is no compensation for its weaknesses. Based on some other posts I've read, I think the flamethrower upgrade of the 251 would have some players supporting it for that reason alone. I think the double occupancy of the 251 will still meet resistance but, I can live with that.

    Thanks for your input - your two cents has gone a long way in making this commander what I wanted him to be. I will edit my post above to change the 250 to the 251. I tip my hat to you, sir.

  • #30
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    On a side note, it's actually called the Commander Updates blog page, not New Commanders as I stated in my earlier post. I wouldn't want to confuse anyone. :/

  • #31
    2 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 203

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Heer's one just for you as thanks for your help with the last one.

    For the fans of the Ostheer.

    Wehrmacht:

    Sudden Strike Doctrine

    Ambush Training
    
    Stormtroopers
    
    Tactical Movement
    
    Light Artillery Barrage
    
    Stuka Bombing Strike
    

    This doctrine is focused on a combination of camouflage, infiltration and swift movement, using them to catch the enemy by surprise and inflict heavy damage anywhere on the map. Ambush Training gives combat infantry a vital edge in holding any ground taken. Stormtroopers can strike anywhere, dispersing the enemy's forces or turning the enemy's flank during an assault. Tactical Movement means this commander's infantry can make swift assaults, rapid retreats or quick redeployments to meet any threat. The Light Artillery Barrage can rain Hell on the enemy anywhere on the map, while the Stuka Bombing Strike will help take down even the biggest targets. This commander will suit players who like heavy infantry battlegroups but, he will also be useful to those who prefer combined arms tactics.

    Let me know what you think.

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