New Commander Thoughts



  • #32
    2 years ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    Ugh. I just realized that the name of this new doctrine is the same as another game. I still like it because it embodies the essence of the doctrine but, I'd be willing to change it if someone came up with something better.

    I looked at some German names but, I don't speak German. I don't know if what I came up with sounds stupid to someone who speaks the language. I was thinking something along the lines of "Schnellenstreik" or "Uberraschungschlacht". Can someone who speaks German tell me if either of those work?

  • #33
    2 years ago

    @PanzerFutz I'll test the Commander Ability combination in a modded game to see how well it works. At a glance, I can already see the massive increase in mobility options, considering that both Tactical movement and Ambush Camouflage both provide sprint options for the player. The only other commander with this ability combination is the Storm Doctrine that also comes with a Stuka Dive Bombing option.

    There is nothing much to say about Stormtroopers considering they are already excellent options, I do wonder if you might also consider swapping this with Fallscrhimjaegers (with upgradable FG42s) that can be para-dropped (as homage to one of your earlier commander ideas)

    Light Artillery Barrage can see its use in many versatile scenarios. However, I believe that Smoke Recon Run (45 munitions, Ostheer Ability) can actually become a viable option for its smaller price tag when used in conjunction with the other three abilities [Ambush Camouflage, Tactical Movement, Stormtroopers]. It provides a rapid- recon run option as well as the option for smoke bombs to be used to synergise with the sudden strike. Smoke-bomb options can allow the Ostheer player to effectively set-up MGs and infantry in forward positions, providing them time to cloak in newer positions closer to an optimal firefight range while blinding an enemy player's LoS, preventing them from knowing that you have in fact moved forward/backward.

    The upgrade for Ambush camouflage, infantry weapons, sprint and tactical movement together might also impair the utility of the slightly more munitions-expensive Artillery Barrage to see frequent use. I can see why you would want it though, there is an abundance of recon troops you can use with Ambush Camouflage.

    A classic example of this combination can be seen in OKW's Luftwaffe Ground Forces Doctrine, where smoke recon runs, valiant assault and Fallschrimjaeger cloaking can be used together to move your Fallschrimjaeger into an optimal firing position and cloak before the smoke dissipates, followed by Valiant Assault and decloaking right on the enemy's noses for a surprise attack.

    Stuka Dive Bombs are excellent and expensive late-game options. They can work in tandem with Smoke-bomb recon runs to get that birds-eye view even for just a second. If this commander is still too munitions-intensive, my only other option would be LeFH Artillery. Very powerful counter-battery and very long range.

    I'd guess my modified variant of your Commander would be
    Ambush Camouflage
    Tactical Movement
    Smoke Bombs
    Stuka Bombing Strike
    LeFH Artillery

    Btw, you can actually test these commander ability combinations in a mod called "Cheat-Commands II" that allows you to test many game mechanics and giving you commander abilities is one of the options.

  • #34
    2 years ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Although I prefer abilities that kill the enemy (in droves if possible), your ideas have a lot of merit.

    The Smoke Recon Run and the leFH18 Artillery have lower Command Point levels than my suggestions so, they would be available for use earlier in the game. They also probably favour close assault more than my version would (because of the risk of friendly fire), which is more geared towards ambushes. Yours are also cheaper options so, they could be used more often and would better suit low-resource maps.

    The only drawbacks to your alternatives are 1) the recon Stukas can be shot down and the artillery can be found & destroyed; and 2) the artillery has range limitations (that's not really a problem though). I went for abilities which could be used anywhere on the map and couldn't be stopped but, that's just my preference.

    I would happily use the Fallschirmjaegers if the developers would make them more than just another infiltration unit. I definitely want to see them with the old FG42 upgrade but, I'd really like to see them have a Panzerschrek upgrade as well (in an either/or package). That way a player could have one of each in a 2 unit team capable of taking on anything below a medium tank. I know they're not likely to do this but, I can still dream about it.

    I would be happy to see and play either version. They'd be a little bit different but, they'd both still embody the Sudden Strike doctrine. I think you should submit your version for consideration because, it's certainly worth it (maybe just change the name to something like "Quick Strike" or "Close Assault").

    Thanks for the tip about modding. I don't really do modding (I think it would chew up too much time and I already spend too much time playing this game). However, I might have to start testing some of these ideas of mine to see how they pan out. It might also help fill in some of the gaps in my knowledge of the game.


  • #35
    2 years ago

    +1 on the modding suggestion. It helps a lot with getting ideas tested and finalized. Using cheat commands would be a pretty straightforward way to do it!

  • #36
    2 years ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 64
    edited July 2018
    @PanzerFutz Thanks to the last few major patches, LeFH 18s are a lot more affordable, costing less MP while implementing a decent fuel cost. Stuka recon runs also strafe at a very high speed and even better if they crash because they tend to go kamikaze and crash on the enemy.

    Also, abit unrealistic but I wonder if Brandenburgers can be used as a call in to replace Fallschrimjaegers/Stormtroopers.
    They would be equipped with allied weapons as well as player infantry models (5x Rifle/Guard/Tommy models but using SVT rifles) and will not be autofired by enemy infantry unless they are specifically told by the player to shoot them or if they get shot by the Brandenburger squad. And they also appear as friendly blips on the map but show as enemy stormtrooper UI on-screen.

    The interesting thing is that currently, Stormtroopers use the Brandenburger Insignia which has an opera mask and a dagger that symbolized their relationship with espionage and disguising as the enemy.

    On the other hand, the Jaeger Light Infantry (OKW) use SS Officer oak leaves, which should have been the Stormtrooper unit icon as an SS unit (without incriminating the nasi censors)

    [Also, a few titles I can think of for this commander would be..
    - Counter-Offensive Doctrine
    - Guerilla Doctrine
    - Asymmetric Warfare/Engagement Doctrine
  • #37
    2 years ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346
    edited July 2018

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 There are lots of little anomalies like the ones you've described throughout the game. I pointed out, in my post about the Vanguard Operations, the anomaly of having a British commander with a red beret but not having any British Paratrooops in the game at all. These little idiosyncrasies make for lots of good talking points amongst the historically-minded gamers. I'm interested in finding out what you think the insignia for the Jaegers should be.

    I doubt we'll see the Brandenburgers but the idea of units that can disguise themselves as the opposition is certainly intriguing. I think you'd have to limit it to being a one unit at a time call-in, otherwise the game could get quite confusing if both sides were using commanders with this ability.

    Your doctrine titles are interesting but, I think Counter-Offensive is the only one that really works. Guerilla is really more partisan warfare, focused on the use of "irregular" units; and, Asymmetric is a very modern term, usually reserved for when one side has a large technological advantage (although there are plenty of examples of this phenomenon before the term came into vogue, i.e. the British vs the Zulus). I don't think either of those really fits the doctrine.

    I would also like to expand on a point you touched on with the Sudden Strike commander. The argument will be made that Ambush Training and Tactical Movement can't be included under one commander. I would like to suggest that the two abilities could not be "stacked" - engaging Tactical Movement would lock-out the Sprint function for its duration and afterwards the normal Sprint recharge would apply. Tactical Movement would also over-ride the Sprint function for any unit using it, including the recharge phase.

    This would mean a player could Sprint units and then, when the Sprint finished, immediately engage Tactical Movement. However, a player could not do the reverse (Tactical Movement then Sprint) because the Sprint recharge would be engaged. My reasoning is that a 5 second sprint will not tire a soldier out sufficiently to prevent marching at double time but, marching at double time for an extended period would make a sprint at the end very difficult, maybe even impossible for a man carrying a heavy weapon.

    Thanks for your input. Cheers.

  • #38
    2 years ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 64
    edited July 2018
    @PanzerFutz The only reason I gave the Brandenburger idea was because this unit actually exists in modded tuning packs, and that mechanic has already been implemented in modded game lobbies like the Spearhead Mod.

    Also, I agree that Tactical Movement and Sprint would have a massive mobility increase that can force soldiers into Usain Bolts with unrealistic stamina. If I were to even this out, Activating Tactical movement into USF fire up instead. Units will suffer movement exhaustion after using tactical movement just like in Rifle Company.
  • #39
    2 years ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 I've come up with a Soviet counterpart to the Sudden Strike doctrine. It's not a mirror image but, it could be used in a similar manner.


    Ambush Tactics

    PMD-6 Anti-Personnel Mines
    Tank Hunter Ambush Tactics
    Booby Trap Territory
    Incendiary Artillery Barrage
    IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike

    This commander is self-explanatory. His abilities are all aimed at ambushing and destroying the enemy. Anti-Personnel Mines, Booby Traps and Incendiary Artillery will destroy infantry. Standard issue mines, the Tank Hunter Ambush and the Precision Bombing Strike will help with destroying tanks. Regular units will set the trap when capturing a sector and camouflaged units will spring the trap when the enemy tries to retake it. The Barrage and Strike can also help with late game assaults.

    I started out with For Mother Russia instead of Booby Traps but, it was too much like the Ostheer version. I wanted something that really punishes an opposition player when he tries to retake a captured territory. It could also be used in chokepoints on the map, such as around bridges and in narrow valleys or causeways (see the Ramelle mod map for an example). If this configuration is too munitions-intensive, the Artillery Barrage could be swapped out for a 152 mm Arty build.

    Let me know what you think. (Anyone reading this can feel free to comment.)

  • #40
    2 years ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    Also, it is odd that the US Fire Up ability has a fatigue factor built into it but Tactical Movement, For Mother Russia and Valiant Assault don't. Sprint is a bit different - it doesn't last very long, troops can't fire their weapons while sprinting and there are no combat bonuses (obviously). I don't know all the details of the various rapid movement abilities so, I don't know why the developers configured them the way they did.

  • #41
    2 years ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    In a similar vein but for the Americans.


    Deception Operations Company

    I & R Pathfinders
    Rifleman Flares
    White Phosphorus Smoke Barrage
    M83 Cluster Mines
    M7B1 Priest HMC

    Keeping the enemy guessing is this commanders forte. Decoy Barrages, along with blinding and burning smoke will confuse the enemy. Flares will light up enemy positions, allowing them to be targeted by cluster mines and artillery from the Priest. Say your prayers because this commander's motto is: "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out!"

  • #42
    2 years ago
    @PanzerFutz the USF fire up fatigue doesn't actually debuff them that badly, they just get a -50% movement speed for the duration of the debuff, but there are no debuffs relating to received accuracy, accuracy or reload speed.
  • #43
    2 years ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 346

    I've realized there is yet another gaffe on my part. Ostheer already has a Spearhead doctrine so, to avoid confusion, I would change the name of my new OKW commander to Mobile Offense doctrine. The Ostheer has Mobile Defense but not Mobile Offense so, I feel that's a good fix.

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