Soviet Commander Revamp Discussion

#1
8 months ago
Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 237 admin

Please use this thread to discuss or submit ideas for the Soviet Commander Revamp.

If you want to submit a full proposal, here are a few guidelines.

  • Please choose commanders that you feel can realistically become competitive with a few good changes. Some commanders are probably beyond redemption at this point. We are aiming to revamp two commanders per faction.
  • Reminder that all proposed changes, must be preexisting units or abilities currently in the live game.
  • Suggested changes should not detract from the commanders given theme.
  • Please provide the rationale behind your proposed changes, and how they will improve said commander.
  • Where applicable, provide costs, CP values, or other details regarding particular change(s)
«134

Comments

  • #2
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    Hello! Dear developers!
    I / We would like to see a changed and a new commander.

    Change:

    1) Assault kit PPSh-41 for conscripts. (For ALL COMMANDERS)

    • Reduce the price from 60 to 45 (The meaning was to do for 60 ammo ??)
    • Change the name to "PPSH-41 assault kit" (to be available for Engineers, Conscripts and Border Guards.) This is like the G43 in the Wehrmacht that I can arm: Grenadier, Panzergrenadiers and someone else)

    2) Repair Complex Conscripts

    • Make it accessible from 5 to 2 or 0. It's very slow repair technique, building and bridges. (I do not think that for 5 points it is worth it to repair for a long time)
    • Add another option: Rename the name to "Repair Complex". Why? Because it will be for two units it's Sappers and Conscripts.
    • Sappers give an improvement to the competent complex for 45-60 ammon
    • Conscripts give better repair or assembly techniques (like OKW's that extract a resource from a damaged technique) for 45-60 ammon

    3) Change in T-34-85

    • After all, SU-85 and T-34-85 are the same guns, so why are there different breakouts?
    • Make a break through the T-34-85 is the same as the Su-85
    • Make it a challenge and not for the buildings.
    • To place 0 points for 8-9 points To call a technician.

    4) Changing Armored Assault Tactics

    • Add multiple abilities!
    • Add the ability "Flamethrower ATO-42"
      (Now available to you, "ATN Flamethrower-42" replaces the machine gun for T-34-76 and T-34-85. Increases effectiveness against infantry 60-75 ammo)

    • Add the ability "Protective Screens"
      (Now you have the "Protection screens" for T-34-76, T-34-85 and SU-85. It increases the survivability by 25% .The cost is 75 ammo)

      **A new Soviet commander!

      You can see from the source of the site:** https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245163/new-commander-ussr#latest
      

    1) 0 Points = Soviet industry
    (Increases the supply of fuel by 20 units, increases the speed of construction of machinery by 75%, but reduces the Human reserve by 50%)
    ATTENTION!!! This ability was in the game of one Soviet commander.

    2) 7 Points = Training of Crew Repair Facilities

    3) Reserve tanks T-34.
    (During the action of this ability, all tanks are pushed into the "Reserve T-34")
    Description Usage Ability:
    The cost is 120 munitions
    The action lasts 60 seconds
    How does this ability work?
    "Reserve T-34" = two Light tanks.
    "Reserve T-34" = one Medium Tank
    "Reserve T-34" = one Heavy tank (with the probability of the appearance of two "Reserve T-34" by 50% .This is only after the destruction of the Heavy Tank)

    4) 14 Points = KV-2
    (This is the only good KV-2 Heavy Tank against any kind.)

    5) Modernization of SU-85 at SU-122.
    The cost is 75 munitions
    (Now you have a Su-85 upgrade to the Su-122 Gaubiytsy.) Effective against infantry and strengthening, but greatly reduces effectiveness against vehicles and tanks.)

  • #3
    8 months ago
    VegnaVegna Posts: 947

    @Commissar_Squad_RU said:
    3) Change in T-34-85

    • After all, SU-85 and T-34-85 are the same guns, so why are there different breakouts?
    • Make a break through the T-34-85 is the same as the Su-85
    • Make it a challenge and not for the buildings.
    • To place 0 points for 8-9 points To call a technician.

    5) Modernization of SU-85 at SU-122.
    The cost is 75 munitions
    (Now you have a Su-85 upgrade to the Su-122 Gaubiytsy.) Effective against infantry and strengthening, but greatly reduces effectiveness against vehicles and tanks.)

    That's common and makes sense. Currnetly there's 3 units that use the German Pak/KWK43 gun. Pak43 emplacement, Elefant and King Tiger. Each has a different gun profile fitting the units role and cost.

    Historically the SU-85 was intended to be a tank hunter, so got more AT shells. T-34/85 was more general tank so had more HE shells.

    Makes no sense to upgrade an SU-85 to a 122, they were built individually, not an upgrade of one. Second part is no new units and that is a new unit.

  • #4
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274

    Something needs to be done about Fear Propaganda Artillery. Either buff it until it's nearly as effective as regular artillery (minus the killing) or get rid of it completely and replace it with something else (my preference). I don't use my NKVD commander because this artillery is nearly worthless.

    Retreat probabilities need to be set much higher and units who retreat should drop their weapons (for upgrades) or abandon them (for team weapons).

  • #5
    8 months ago
    F1shF1sh Posts: 31

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics Revamp:

    All of the changes are unused abilities/units that are already in the game.

    Radio Intercept 0CP: Good as is.

    Commissar Squad 2CP: Boosts defense and offense of nearby infantry, and if the Commissar Squad dies, all nearby infantry become pinned (as is already in-game). In addition, the squad will be able to call in a Recon Overflight (optional).

    Manpower Blitz 4CP: Costs ~80 munitions and ~50 fuel, gives 500 manpower immediately. Manpower income is reduced for several minutes. This could be replaced with a Munitions Blitz to counter the munitions heavy abilities. Could be replaced with a "Munitions Blitz" ability instead, to counter the other munitions-heavy abilities.

    Fear Propaganda Artillery 6CP: Good as is, could be marginally buffed.

    Scorched Earth Policy 12CP: Costs ~200 munitions, rains down rockets on enemy infantry in owned territories. I tested this ability with the CheatCommands mod and it is really weak, only hitting a few models here and there. Obviously the ability's stats would have to be adjusted to be useful, but the foundation is there.

    I believe this would much improve a never-used commander and the changes I have proposed stick to the theme of the NKVD . This commander in its current state lacks any originality and is overshadowed by more useful commanders that give call-in tanks and elite infantry. Adding in a Commissar and the pricey option to receive bonus manpower would balance out the lack of any Conscript upgrades or elite infantry call-ins that most other Soviet commanders have.

  • #6
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @F1sh said:

    Radio Intercept 0CP: Good as is.

    Well, then I agree and this one.
    Just let them fix "Radio Intercept" (All)
    reasons are:
    1) Soviet VS Wehrmacht
    1-1) "Radio Intercept" = Voice acting

    2) Soviet VS OKW
    2-1) "Radio Intercept" = It does not Voice acting, only a little part of the Wehrmacht.

    3) Soviet VS United States
    3-1) "Radio Intercept" = It does not Voice acting!

    4) Soviet VS British
    4-1) "Radio Intercept" = It does not Voice acting!

    5) Soviet VS Soviet
    5-1) "Radio Intercept" = It does not Voice acting!

    After all, "Radio Intercept" is needed to hear and not to read.
    Let them change it so that it was all sound and voice instead of reading Or remove it and replace it with something else.

  • #7
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119
    edited July 2018

    Then it is better to do so!

    Radio Intercept 0CP
    Commissar Squad 2CP
    Tank Hunter Ambush Tactics 2CP
    Fear Propaganda Artillery 6CP
    KV-2 Heavy Assault Tank 14CP

    Why do we need KV-2 on this tactic?
    Because there to sit "Commissar KV-2"
    I think you can do so!

    Commissar of the squad is inspired by the Infantry!
    Commissar of the tank inspires Tanks!

  • #8
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274

    A Soviet command tank is a good idea. A KV-2 command tank - not so much. Me, I'd rather it was a KV-1.

    I would make it like the British Designate Command Vehicle or the OKW Panzer Commander. That way the player could choose from what's in their arsenal.

  • #9
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @PanzerFutz said:
    A Soviet command tank is a good idea. A KV-2 command tank - not so much. Me, I'd rather it was a KV-1.

    I would make it like the British Designate Command Vehicle or the OKW Panzer Commander. That way the player could choose from what's in their arsenal.

    Comman KV-1 ??
    Do not make me laugh!

    The Wehrmacht - Panzer 4 (Shorty)
    OKW - Panther V (Very dangerous)
    The British - any Command Vehicles

    Therefore, the commander's tank must have two options:

    • T-34-85
    • KV-2 (the commissioner sits there, must give a bonus)
  • #10
    8 months ago

    Had trouble posting, here is a word doc. I made it neat and easy to read...

  • #11
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @ForsakenHunt said:
    Had trouble posting, here is a word doc. I made it neat and easy to read...

    New Commander Recommendations

    A good option is Soviet air support +5

  • #12
    8 months ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 116

    I think, that change can be such commander as:

    I can give an example:

    • OKW x2 command ability (Flaks, Tank Traps and Trench) 0 CP;
    • British forces no commander for Trench and have a Bofors;
    • American forces no commander for Tank Traps and Fighting Position (60 ammo upgrade);
    • Wehrmacht have a bunkers (3 different types) - no commander; yes, Tank Traps and Trench commander abilitys, but this commander is much more diverse and has much better abilities than the Soviet Defensive ( Pak-43, Sector Artillery)

    I believe that the Soviet Defensive commander should be stronger, more mobile and provide the ability to faster, so that he could compete with the commanders of other factions.

    I also believe that Partizan's grenade and a Molotov Cocktail must be available immediately, without a cooldown, as Fallshirmjager grenade and Panzerfaust are available immediately, without a cooldown.
    Even anti-personnel fragmentation and smoke grenades in Shock Troops must be recharged separately from each other.

  • #13
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274
    edited July 2018

    @F1sh @Commissar_Squad_RU @Comrad Please re-read what it says at the start of this thread. The second point is "No new units or abilities". No matter how good your ideas are (I like a lot of them), they won't be done.

    Fixing the Radio Intercepts and separating the cooldowns for different types of grenades are the sort of suggestions they want. Giving the NKVD commander a KV-2 is within the rules; creating a brand new Commissar squad is not (no matter how much we'd like to see it happen).

  • #14
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274

    Here is an example:

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics

    Radio Intercept
    Spy Network
    For Mother Russia
    Fear Propaganda Artillery
    Incendiary Artillery
    

    No new unit or abilities; just some things swapped out to make the commander more useful. Spy Network for better intel; For Mother Russia for some combat bonuses; and Incendiary Artillery for an earlier strike package and to make better use of the Propaganda Artillery.

    It's not as interesting as your suggestions but, it's more likely to be used in the revamp.

  • #15
    8 months ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 116

    @PanzerFutz написал:
    Here is an example:

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics

    Radio Intercept
    Spy Network
    For Mother Russia
    Fear Propaganda Artillery
    Incendiary Artillery

    No new unit or abilities; just some things swapped out to make the commander more useful. Spy Network for better intel; For Mother Russia for some combat bonuses; and Incendiary Artillery for an earlier strike package and to make better use of the Propaganda Artillery.

    It's not as interesting as your suggestions but, it's more likely to be used in the revamp.

    I have a commander I suggested. There are also abilities that would be good to appear in the game.

  • #16
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @PanzerFutz said:
    Here is an example:

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics

    Radio Intercept
    Spy Network
    For Mother Russia
    Fear Propaganda Artillery
    Incendiary Artillery

    No new unit or abilities; just some things swapped out to make the commander more useful. Spy Network for better intel; For Mother Russia for some combat bonuses; and Incendiary Artillery for an earlier strike package and to make better use of the Propaganda Artillery.

    It's not as interesting as your suggestions but, it's more likely to be used in the revamp.

    And I do not like your offer!
    You advised the ability to do it.
    So do not be smart! Suggest all and not your options.
    Oh, I do not like that either.

  • #17
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @Comrad said:

    @PanzerFutz написал:
    Here is an example:

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics

    Radio Intercept
    Spy Network
    For Mother Russia
    Fear Propaganda Artillery
    Incendiary Artillery
    

    No new unit or abilities; just some things swapped out to make the commander more useful. Spy Network for better intel; For Mother Russia for some combat bonuses; and Incendiary Artillery for an earlier strike package and to make better use of the Propaganda Artillery.

    It's not as interesting as your suggestions but, it's more likely to be used in the revamp.

    I have a commander I suggested. There are also abilities that would be good to appear in the game.

    Yes, he does not understand anything about the game and the ability! Do not pay attention!

  • #18
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274

    @Andy_RE Is it possible to have the guidelines posted in Russian? "No new units or abilities" seems to be getting lost in translation.

  • #19
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274
    edited July 2018

    @ForsakenHunt I read your document; liked what I saw.

    M-42 should stay but have costs and pop cap reduced. The Soviets had stacks of these guns at the start of the war so, they should be dirt cheap. They're not very good against anything but light vehicles so, they shouldn't take up too much room in the population. Then, people might use them as an early game counter that can be replaced by better weapons later. They would be useful as an air-dropped weapon, if the developers ever made a Soviet airborne commander.

    The other two, I totally agree. I don't ever use them. Maybe I would if they were toggle abilities instead of timed, munitions-based ones. But, they're still limited and I'd rather see them go too.

    I like the Air Support Tactics commander very much; I formulated a similar commander for the US faction (in the New Commander Thoughts/Ideas threads). Very munitions intensive but still nice to have as an option.

    I also like your Covert Operations/Ambush Tactics. I have something very similar in the New Commander threads (great minds think alike and all that...). I'm looking forward to reading any other ideas you have. Cheers.

  • #20
    8 months ago

    Thanks! Anything to make the game and community better.

  • #21
    8 months ago
    ЯedTurianЯedTurian Posts: 17

    I personnally feel like more commanders should have the KV-2, which one deserves a buff in my opinion, and some B-4s (NKVD commander absolutely needs at least a B-4, it was a NKVD weapon, as the katyusha, for a long time during the ww2, and the KV-2 too)

    @Comrad said:

    I absolutely agree with that, but I would like to see the DShK instead of PMD-6, since they are absolutely worthless

  • #22
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @ЯedTurian said:
    I personnally feel like more commanders should have the KV-2, which one deserves a buff in my opinion, and some B-4s (NKVD commander absolutely needs at least a B-4, it was a NKVD weapon, as the katyusha, for a long time during the ww2, and the KV-2 too)

    @Comrad said:

    I absolutely agree with that, but I would like to see the DShK instead of PMD-6, since they are absolutely worthless

    Comrade @ЯedTurian said:!
    Did you like my proposal to change the Soviet commander?

    I'm sorry that I write badly in English!

  • #23
    8 months ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 116

    @ЯedTurian написал:
    I personnally feel like more commanders should have the KV-2, which one deserves a buff in my opinion, and some B-4s (NKVD commander absolutely needs at least a B-4, it was a NKVD weapon, as the katyusha, for a long time during the ww2, and the KV-2 too)

    @Comrad said:

    I absolutely agree with that, but I would like to see the DShK instead of PMD-6, since they are absolutely worthless

    Katyusha must make continuous volleys, releasing all the missiles at once. Because it doesn't fit the rest of the rocket launchers like land matress, calliope, wulframen, and nebelwelfer.

  • #24
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @Comrad said:

    @ЯedTurian написал:
    I personnally feel like more commanders should have the KV-2, which one deserves a buff in my opinion, and some B-4s (NKVD commander absolutely needs at least a B-4, it was a NKVD weapon, as the katyusha, for a long time during the ww2, and the KV-2 too)

    @Comrad said:

    I absolutely agree with that, but I would like to see the DShK instead of PMD-6, since they are absolutely worthless

    Katyusha must make continuous volleys, releasing all the missiles at once. Because it doesn't fit the rest of the rocket launchers like land matress, calliope, wulframen, and nebelwelfer.

    Theme about the commanders and not the balance? What does Katyusha have to do with the balance? Wait when they talk about changing the balance of the game.
    No offense.

  • #25
    8 months ago
    ЯedTurianЯedTurian Posts: 17

    @Commissar_Squad_RU said:

    @ЯedTurian said:
    I personnally feel like more commanders should have the KV-2, which one deserves a buff in my opinion, and some B-4s (NKVD commander absolutely needs at least a B-4, it was a NKVD weapon, as the katyusha, for a long time during the ww2, and the KV-2 too)

    @Comrad said:

    I absolutely agree with that, but I would like to see the DShK instead of PMD-6, since they are absolutely worthless

    Comrade @ЯedTurian said:!
    Did you like my proposal to change the Soviet commander?

    I'm sorry that I write badly in English!

    Yes I agree, but with B4 instead of tank hunter tactics :smile:

    and no problem for your english, as long as we understand :smile:

  • #26
    8 months ago
    Naya_TyanNaya_Tyan Russia Posts: 119

    @ЯedTurian said:

    @Commissar_Squad_RU said:

    @ЯedTurian said:
    I personnally feel like more commanders should have the KV-2, which one deserves a buff in my opinion, and some B-4s (NKVD commander absolutely needs at least a B-4, it was a NKVD weapon, as the katyusha, for a long time during the ww2, and the KV-2 too)

    @Comrad said:

    I absolutely agree with that, but I would like to see the DShK instead of PMD-6, since they are absolutely worthless

    Comrade @ЯedTurian said:!
    Did you like my proposal to change the Soviet commander?

    I'm sorry that I write badly in English!

    Yes I agree, but with B4 instead of tank hunter tactics :smile:

    and no problem for your english, as long as we understand :smile:

    Thank you comrade!
    Yes, I also agree that B-4 should have the commander of "tank hunter tactics" in place of ML-20.

  • #27
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274
    edited July 2018

    My apologies to the Russian players. I was unaware that a Commissar Squad had been added to the game in the Theater of War missions (it wasn't there the last time I played the "No Retreat, No Surrender" mission). I would very much like to see it added as a doctrinal unit. I would still go a different way with the NKVD commander.

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics

    Conscript Assault Package
    Commissar Squad
    Recon Overflight
    Fear Propaganda Artillery
    B4 203mm Howitzer
    

    The Commissar Squad would come in at 3 Command Points and would cost the same as the US Major (minus fuel) because, this is the closest comparable unit in the game. I would add Medical Supplies to his abilities to allow him to heal units in his vicinity, the same way British Infantry units do.

    Given that the Commissar prevents any infantry within his aura from retreating, conscripts get the Assault package to make sure they're well armed. The Commissar comes with Spy Network as a special ability so there's no need for Radio Intercept. He also comes with his own KV-2 and IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike call-in's so, there's no need to have those included in the commander's abilities. However, the commander does need some heavy artillery to complement the other abilities so, "Stalin's Sledgehammer" takes the place of the IL-2 strafe.

    It's just my opinion but, this version of the NKVD commander looks a lot better than the one I've got now.

  • #28
    8 months ago
    ЯedTurianЯedTurian Posts: 17

    @PanzerFutz said:
    My apologies to the Russian players. I was unaware that a Commissar Squad had been added to the game in the Theater of War missions (it wasn't there the last time I played the "No Retreat, No Surrender" mission). I would very much like to see it added as a doctrinal unit. I would still go a different way with the NKVD commander.

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics

    Conscript Assault Package
    Commissar Squad
    Recon Overflight
    Fear Propaganda Artillery
    B4 203mm Howitzer

    The Commissar Squad would come in at 3 Command Points and would cost the same as the US Major (minus fuel) because, this is the closest comparable unit in the game. I would add Medical Supplies to his abilities to allow him to heal units in his vicinity, the same way British Infantry units do.

    Given that the Commissar prevents any infantry within his aura from retreating, conscripts get the Assault package to make sure they're well armed. The Commissar comes with Spy Network as a special ability so there's no need for Radio Intercept. He also comes with his own KV-2 and IL-2 Precision Bombing Strike call-in's so, there's no need to have those included in the commander's abilities. However, the commander does need some heavy artillery to complement the other abilities so, "Stalin's Sledgehammer" takes the place of the IL-2 strafe.

    It's just my opinion but, this version of the NKVD commander looks a lot better than the one I've got now.

    Yeah that's an Idea too, but it's said "no modification of existing units/no new units" so... yeah

  • #29
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274

    @ЯedTurian I pointed that out earlier in the thread and got criticised for it. I even gave an example with no new units or abilities and that just made things worse. If you're going after people who don't understand the guidelines, you should start with the people for whom English is clearly a second language.

    Having said that, a friend told me that the Commissar is in the Theater of War missions so, technically it's not a new unit (hence the apology). The abilities I described for the Commissar are the ones he possesses in the Theater of War mission "No Retreat, No Surrender" from the Southern Fronts package so, again technically nothing new. If this unit is outside the guidelines of the thread, I'll accept that without complaint.

    I'll wager that won't be the case for the other players with the unit in their suggestions.

  • #30
    8 months ago
    ЯedTurianЯedTurian Posts: 17

    @PanzerFutz said:
    @ЯedTurian I pointed that out earlier in the thread and got criticised for it. I even gave an example with no new units or abilities and that just made things worse. If you're going after people who don't understand the guidelines, you should start with the people for whom English is clearly a second language.

    Having said that, a friend told me that the Commissar is in the Theater of War missions so, technically it's not a new unit (hence the apology). The abilities I described for the Commissar are the ones he possesses in the Theater of War mission "No Retreat, No Surrender" from the Southern Fronts package so, again technically nothing new. If this unit is outside the guidelines of the thread, I'll accept that without complaint.

    I'll wager that won't be the case for the other players with the unit in their suggestions.

    Well, actually, English IS my second language :P but yeah I know what you meant.
    And hmm, unfortunately, It would be cool if we could have some more commander abilities for the soviets, because they have more commanders than the other factions I believe, but pretty much all of them are redundant, so many commanders are useless/not used at all for obvious reasons...

  • #31
    8 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 274

    @ЯedTurian For someone who's writing in a second language, you do it very well.

    I totally agree with what you said. The Soviet faction needs new commanders, whether with old abilities in different combinations or new abilities altogether. The one unit the Soviets are really missing is the Commissar Squad. Every other faction has an officer unit; so should they. NKVD is the obvious commander but, there are others who could use the unit in place of one of their weaker abilities. The Soviets could also use some more off-map strike packages, maybe a rocket barrage and some sector barrages like the other factions have. But, that's for another thread.

    You did inspire me to come up with a new Soviet commander; it's called "Sledgehammer Tactics". You'll find it in the New Commander Ideas thread. I think it's something you might like. Let me know what you think. Cheers.

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