Wehrmacht/OKW Swaps

#1
5 months ago
PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 239

With the Commander Revamp threads currently open and the New Commander threads soon to appear, it seems apparent that many players would like to see some items from one faction appear in the other. The Wehrmacht/Ostheer and the OKW are unique because, they actually represent the same army on different fronts. Between these two factions, what is the unit, upgrade or ability from one of these two factions you would most like to appear in the other faction?

Please limit your answer to one item per post. Give your reason for why the receiving faction is in need of it and what item you would have it replace.

Example: Ostheer Panzer Tactician replaces Radio Silence of the Special Operations commander for OKW.

Reason: Radio Silence is of limited value because, it only hides units on the mini-map that are already visible to your units. Panzer Tactician allows tanks under fire to retreat with a greater degree of safety.

[Note: This is just an example. There is no need to point out why you think it's wrong. I'm interested in stimulating discussions that are relevant to the official commander threads and this example would not be my first choice. It's merely a template for other people to follow.]

Comments

  • #2
    5 months ago

    @PanzerFutz Granting Radio Silence as a Vet 3 ability for the Sdkfz. 251 and Sdkfz. 250 at Vet 0.

    Reason: Improves survivability by decreasing detection of fragile transports and allows transportation of infantry into discreet areas without attracting attention on the minimap, also masking the transport's map signature when hit by a mine (for that brief moment in time). [20 munitions - 20 seconds]

    OKW do not have non-doctrinal transports that allow them to make full use of Radio Silence for flanking maneuvers. The Ostheer have that luxury and can utilize it more effectively with their transports to ship infantry across enemy frontlines.

  • #3
    5 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 239

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Solid reasoning.

    To my mind, the OKW really only gets full value from Radio Silence with units that can cloak/camouflage. Ostheer might get good use under the scenario you've described but, I'm curious why you've given the different half-tracks different vet levels. Is it because the 250 only comes with squads attached?

  • #4
    5 months ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 60
    edited August 2018
    @PanzerFutz it's because the 250 Transport Halftrack has no veterancy to begin with. Derp. :p It really should get veterancy bonuses, 100% experience from units surrounding/occupying it and have its veterancy upgrade its durability and survival of its occupants.

    Vet 0 - Radio Silence
    Vet 1 - +30% increased speed, +10% deceleration/acceleration. Grants occupancy protection.
    Vet 2 - +80HP to a total of 320HP.(Brings it to par with the Sdkfz. 251's health of 320HP).
    Vet 3 - Reinforcement Point Unlocked.

    On the Radio Silence side, I would be keen to have Radio Silence remain in OKW if it also removes your Unit Icons for the duration of the ability. This prevents the enemy from seeing your weapon upgrades initially and removes the red circles and icon surrounding your infantry to make them harder to see even in the main screen. [Abit like as if they were neutral units, if you know the modding lingo].
  • #5
    5 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 239
    edited August 2018

    Alright, I think I finally have a swap I'd like to see. I would like to see the Ostheer's Entrenching Tools replaced by the OKW's Heavy Fortifications. E.T. only gets the Ostheer trenches; H.F. gives trenches, tank traps and 2cm Flak emplacements. This is a lot more versatile.

    It would eliminate the need to use two slots in the Defensive (Community) commander, freeing up one for something else. It would also improve the value of the Osttruppen commander by giving him some alternatives in game-play. The tank traps and Flak emplacements could give the light infantry extra protection against armour, allowing the player to use fewer units to defend a given area.

    It would be a straight swap so, no tweaks are necessary - just using Pioneers instead of Sturmpioneers.

  • #6
    5 months ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 60
    edited August 2018
    @PanzerFutz Entrenching tools allow all your infantry, including grenadiers, panzergrenadiers and Osttruppen to build sandbags and barbed wire as well as trenches. Really, it should also allow Ostheer to build tank traps and schu mines instead. 2cm Flak Emplacement might seem much though. They are very powerful for their price, immune to flamethrowers and small arms. They can even pin troops that are already retreating (that needs to be fixed).

    What I'd like to see instead is allowing ostheer infantry to build schu mines and tank traps instead of flak emplacements. This would give ostheer a doctrinal Anti personnel/AT mine that can be planted in isolated areas by multiple squads at the same time.

    I would implement Panzer IV command tank as the free slot provided in Defensive Doctrine
  • #7
    5 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 239

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Yeah, I wrote that post just before going to bed and realized while falling asleep that it was wrong. I'd still make the swap but with Defensive Fortifications instead of Entrenching Tools. For the Defensive commander, tank traps alone don't offer the player enough. He's a commander with no offensive options and Heavy Fortifications would give him more defensive options. There wouldn't be a free slot anymore but, the Flak emplacements would effectively be a new unit. However, it would be restricted to just one commander and wouldn't unduly affect play balance.

    Giving Osttruppen the ability to build tank traps and lay Schu mines sounds good. It fits their defensive nature, it would help out more than just one commander and it would make the commanders who have them a more attractive option when choosing a commander. Then the swap wouldn't be needed.

    I didn't know that Flak emplacements were immune to flamethrowers; that's very odd. The crew is exposed and should burn as easily as any other infantry. Only the gun should be unaffected (unless that's what you meant).

  • #8
    5 months ago
    MSAF_Unbekannt_15MSAF_Unbe… Posts: 60
    edited August 2018

    @PanzerFutz

    Flak Emplacements will all use the HQ variant. They can no longer be de-crewed by any means. Immune to small-arms fire and crew is immune to flamethrowers. Entire Flak HQ has to be destroyed. Crew can be killed by high explosive tank shells [Usually this also destroys the gun].

    This change would affect two commanders, both Defensive Doctrine and Osttruppen Doctrine, since both have access to the same 'Entrenching Tools" commander ability.

    This would be the proposed result.

    Defensive Doctrine 2.0

    [2CP]
    Heavy Fortifications
    - All Infantry squads can now build Trenches, Sandbags, Barbed Wire, Tank Traps, Schu-mines.
    - Pioneers can also build 2cm Flak Emplacements.

    [5CP]
    Hull-down
    - All Ostheer armoured units can now hull down. [I wish Halftracks and 222 can be hulled down. [Hull MGs gain suppression damage, 20% increased sight range, 20% increased range and -25% received damage if hulled down.]

    [8CP]
    Pak-43 Anti-Tank Platform
    - Pak-43 Anti-Tank Platforms can be build by Pioneers. These AT guns can shoot through buildings and world objects.
    - No change

    [9CP]
    Command Panzer IV
    - Command Panzer IV can now be called in.
    - All friendly units in defensive aura take -20% received damage.
    - No change

    [12CP]
    Sector Artillery
    - Enemy units entering a territory tagged with Sector Artillery is bombarded with zeroing artillery.
    - No change

    Osttruppen Doctrine 2.0

    [0CP]
    Osttruppen Call-in
    - No change

    [2CP]
    Heavy Fortifications
    - All Infantry squads can now build Trenches, Sandbags, Barbed Wire, Tank Traps, Schu-mines.
    - Pioneers can also build 2cm Flak Emplacements.

    [2CP]
    Artillery Field Officer Call-in
    - No change

    [4CP]
    Resupply-drops
    - Drops 25 munitions, 10 fuel, MG34 and Pak 40 into a target area. [450mp]
    -No change

    [12CP]
    Railway Artillery Support
    - Oberkommando Der Wehrmacht drops three 800mm shells on the target location.
    - No change

  • #9
    5 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 239

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Yeah, that's what I was trying to achieve. I was just too tired last night to think it through properly. It makes both of these defensive commanders a bit better at their jobs. The Command Panzer IV also strengthens the Defensive commander without being overly powerful. Thanks.

  • #10
    5 months ago

    @PanzerFutz This is sort of a Soviet/OKW swap. I think Radio Silence can be replaced with Radio Intercept for the soviets [0CP] ability. It does immediately provide an increase in awareness and helps the OKW player to gain the maphack abilities I already mentioned in the Soviet Commander Revamp Thread.

  • #11
    5 months ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 239

    @MSAF_Unbekannt_15 Signals warfare is such a big topic it deserves its own thread. It's an aspect of the game to which the developers didn't pay enough attention. They could have included it as a separate layer, with each faction having its own unique form of signals warfare.

    Silence, jamming, fake signals, codes, intercepts and decrypts could have all been used. Some could have been part of the core force while others were strictly doctrinal. It looks like a missed opportunity to make the game not only more interesting but also more realistic.

  • #12
    5 months ago

    The one thing Im hoping for is Panzerfusiliers for Wehrmacht their Recon flares are amazing combined the factions indirect fire capabilities and it would nice to have a 6 man unit other than ostruppen.

    How I would change the Vet
    vet1: Unlocks the 'Flare' ability and +10% Accuracy
    vet2:+40% accuracy, +25% grenade and flare range, and -25% grenade and flare recharge
    vet3 +10% accuracy, -20% weapon cooldown,, and -23% received accuracy

    I would reduce the MP cost to 270 due to the fact they don't have Passive sprint anymore.

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