Feedback - Commander Revamp

#1
1 month ago
Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 186 admin
edited August 27 in Commander Feedback

This thread is for providing feedback on the changes from version 1 of the commander revamp.

Please try and keep your feedback unbiased and impartial. We would like to focus on how these changes feel, and where alterations are needed to achieve Good Spot ™ status. When possible please steer away from offering alternative units/ abilities, unless you have a solid reason for doing so. We appreciate some folks may be disappointed that their changes weren’t selected for inclusion.

For the revamp team, the most valuable feedback is from players who have tested the mod. Please take the time to play some games, preferably with a similarly skilled opponent, and provide feedback. Alternatively, feel free to try out the revamped units and abilities using cheat tools, and let us know your thoughts.

If you agree/ disagree with the points raised by other people (after playing some games) be sure to comment so we can evaluate the overall sentiment toward that particular change.

Thanks very much everyone,

«13456710

Comments

  • #2
    1 month ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,063
    This is great and all. But I might lose my mind if we have yet another patch without volks getting touched. I realize that's "off-topic", but that's kind of the problem.

    This "Commander revamp" includes the potential to give infantry sections light AT mines STOCK. So i see no reason a volks fix cannot be included.
  • #3
    1 month ago
    dukejasondukejason Posts: 1,331 mod
    edited August 27

    I am very excited for the changes coming to coh 2. I cant wait to see how the competitive scene is affected by all of the new strategies that will be unleashed. So far in my eyes the changes look great!

  • #4
    1 month ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,430
    A lot of fantastic changes small thing tho- seeing so many merged abilities can Soviet defensive tactics get some of that? Tank traps as 20% of the ability? Merge that and the mini mines (maybe the AT mines too?) and slap the FHQ in there!
  • #5
    1 month ago
    Mr_RuinMr_Ruin Posts: 78

    When you think magical bazooka bus cannot get any stronger you get a preview where it gets on the field faster (if you use the liutenant) and can improve infantry inside of it with Combined Arms which in turn improve it and tanks around it. And those tanks are cheaper 76mm Shermans.

    TwistedTootsy will be pleased.

  • #6
    1 month ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 220

    Some good changes but, it seems very conservative when compared to the Revamp threads.

    @thedarkarmadillo I had hoped the Soviet Defensive commander would see some beefing up (you know, maybe Tank Traps, Trenches and mini-mines consolidated into Defensive Fortifications) but, no such luck.

    I'm glad to see they changed the NKVD commander and made the M-42 a bit better.

    However, I'm scratching my head trying to figure out just what "Tank Traps - Consolidated into Defensive Fortifications" means for the Wehrmacht. Tank Traps were already called Defensive Fortifications so, what exactly is new about this? A little more explanation of this would have been nice.

    As for the rest, I'll have to play them to know whether I think they're worth anything.

  • #7
    1 month ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 92
    edited August 28

    1) Commissar Squad (New Ability) is useless and bears no meaning. To call this unit only for the sake of strengthening of one group of infantrymen-there is no sense. Both abilities to strengthen the infantry squad recharged at the same time and the time to use them, very inconvenient. Commissar Squad should encourage, but not give the opportunity to use my abilities only for 1 squad , but still a choice.
    2) Scorched Earth Policy (New Ability) also as useless. If earlier it cost 200 ammo and controlled the entire territory, and firing Katyusha's Rockets (low accuracy, a small damage, but still), now it is much more expensive (if installed on all points), is ineffective due to the fact that the fire is by incendiary shells.
    3) The NKVD commander need the ability to "Sector Artillery". In this case, it will be the only ability of the USSR, which will rely on artillery outside the map, and not only on the aircraft, which is very easy to shoot down air defense.
    4) Shock Troops of Urban Defense Tactics should be the same as for 2 points (have the same range of fire - a short distance, cooldown grenades separately), but be at 0 points and cost the same manpower. Or Shock Troops to replace the Mobile assault group (340 manpower).

  • #8
    1 month ago
    TobbacosTobbacos Posts: 11

    Where are the new commanders?

  • #9
    1 month ago
    ComradComrad Posts: 92

    @Tobbacos написал:
    Where are the new commanders?

    Closer to new year

  • #10
    1 month ago

    Alright so I've played a few games now with armor company and I'm gonna put down my initial impressions.
    Assault engineers: Alright so they still have their weakness, that being fragile glass cannons with high DPS, and while getting to vet 2 helps it doesn't solve the initial problem. "Why should I get them if I have to wait a really long time to get them to vet 2?"
    I propose reducing their damage output and close range increasing it slightly to mid and giving them more received accuracy.
    Moving on to the elite crew:
    Still useless, you can get some use if you lose your vehicles, but the high cost+time it takes to build it just isn't worth it most of the time.
    M10:
    So this is insanely strong, it gives the M10 the ability to hurt anti-tank guns and support weapons for little cost -while- opening up super strong stuns against vehicles. I propse here that you increase the cost to 40-50 muni and give it one or the other, you can't have the stuns and the HE at the same time. Just too strong

    Sherman bulldozer:
    This was completly fine, performed as expected, i quite like the place it's in

    240mm: Still expensive, still no reason to use it unless you're playing teamgames

  • #11
    1 month ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950

    I want to speak mainly about Ostheer-Commanders, over I really like all optimizations, but I can't follow up all changes, e.g.:

    • Why not merge "hull-down" and "light-fortification" to one ability?
    • Why can Osttruppen only take one weapon now?
    • Why not removed the "Scope" and buffed the 222 with a standard sight-increase if stationary.
  • #12
    1 month ago
    dukejasondukejason Posts: 1,331 mod

    @Tobbacos said:
    Where are the new commanders?

    There is a link so you can test for yourself in post by Andy.

    This the link: https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1495316901

  • #13
    1 month ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,063
    edited August 28
    > @Widerstreit said:
    > * Why can Osttruppen only take one weapon now?

    Probably for the same reason conscripts do. 6 man squads are especially ferocious with picked-up weapons, and given how cheap cons and Ostruppen are they don't want them punching above their weight.

    Before cons got the same treatment I once had a con squad with 2 ober lmgs and it had something like 65 kills by the end of the match. Nowadays that's more kills than I often get total with 3-4 cons put together lol
  • #14
    1 month ago

    Stormtroopers - I like the change to MP40s, so far seemingly more efficent weaponry to suit their intented role as disruption units, however to compensate for the loss of their "Tactical Assault" ability they should recieve the Ambush Camoflauge's First Strike damage bonus stock, as well as gain the interrogation ability when upgraded with its respective weapon package under the Elite Troops Doctrine. These additions would further compliment their roles of disruption and intelligence gathering as while the MP40 change allows the stormtroopers to be more readily combat effective, they still lose pound for pound against allied close quarters infantry (Shock Troops and Paratroopers w/ Thompsons).

  • #15
    1 month ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,063
    @Andy_RE Hi I am confused by the latest post in the updates. Are those changes added to the patch or are they replacing the ones originally listed? The dozer had a lot of other vet changes I hope weren't scrapped.
  • #16
    1 month ago

    @Andy_RE Lately in 3s and 4s i have been playing Wehrmacht generals with the Howitzer LeFH and Pak 43 emplacements. Is there any a chance to give Howitzer LeFH and Pak 43 a brace structure ability just like the British have. It feels impossible to keep them alive through a generals ammunition abilities especially the pak 43 which has a short range and needs to be near the front line. Same goes for the Howitzer LeFH in the back line, i cant even count how many time the enemy player used a fast vehicle or snuck in a infantry squad and dumped an ammunition ability on top of it, leaving me with no counter to it.

  • #17
    1 month ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,662
    edited August 29

    Assault Engineers
    Veterancy 2 now bolsters squad to five men upon reinforcement

    This is a bad change since 5 men squad with flamer will be problematic.
    Suggestions:
    lower price, allow 2 different upgrades flamers or Thompson (2-3) (increases squad size to 5, takes all weapon slots) also gives access to WP grenade requires an officer.

    (in addition :The ability for blowing up cover has its cooldown greatly increased now cost mu or completely removed. (the reason it available to Ro.E is to help them clear room for emplecements)

    Elite Vehicle Crews
    Repair speed increased by 0.5
    Veterancy gain increased by 15%

    This is a huge bonus it would be allot better to replace with a vet 4 level.

    M10 Tank Destroyer
    -HE ready aim-time from 1.75 to 1.25
    -AOE Mid Distance from 1 to 1.5
    -Fixed an issue where HE critcal would not apply to vehicles on deflection.
    -Fixed an issue where HE shells could not be fired into the FOW.
    Aimed HE round ability added that will blind enemy tanks and disable weapons for enemy tanks for 6 seconds and provide decent affect against infantry. Costs 35 munitions.

    This is change in completely wrong direction.
    M10 is a very cost effective unit the only reason it is not being used is that M36 is a borderline OP unit. Buff the m10 is the wrong way to go about it.

    Suggestion:
    Make the unit a call-in unit to but not commander that has other AI call-in tanks (mechanised for instance). Add premium when called in and make it also build-able from major at normal price.

    Remove AP round (add smoke if necessary so the unit can be used as flanker. )

    Sherman 105mm Dozer
    The intention has been to give this unit a more devastating anti infantry and emplacement profile. Stats reflect a less potent Brumbar, with the upside being that the 105mm is turreted.
    -AOE distance from 0.325/0.75/5.5 to 0.425/1/6
    -Distance scatter max from 4.8 to 2.5
    -Now deals 50% damage on deflection; akin to Brummbar
    Veterancy 2 Bonuses from +20% speed, +20% rotation, +30% Accuracy, +20% Accel/Decel to 0.8 Received Damage, -15% weapon reload, +20% rotation
    Veterancy 3 Bonuses from 3: +35 weapon rotation, -20% Reload to +35% weapon rotation, -10% weapon reload, +30% Accel/Decel

    Actually I am amazed by this change it seems that people have learned nothing from the introduction of USF mortar?
    Does USF need more AI tanks ?
    Does a doctrinal unit with no tech cost should be model after a very powerful vehicle with a very high tech cost?
    Should a unit be buffed just to compete with a unit that is already great at its work?
    Simply redesign the unit so that it does not overlap with the standard Sherman.
    Suggestions:
    11CP 105mm Bulldozer Sherman unit redesigned as indirect fire support unit with the crew unable to disebark.
    Option 1
    A tougher version of priest with smaller range and a barrage with less shells (3?) and lower CD. Unit to be used to break the front line instead of being used to bomb the base.

    Option 2
    A smaller version of KV-2 used both a tank and in siege mod.

    Option 3 a version "heavy infantry support tank" in other words the unit loses lethality for HP/armour

    MECHANIZED COMPANY
    Mortar Halftrack - Removed
    Mechanized Group
    WC-51 and M3 Halftrack consolidated and available from the Rifle Command. M3 requires either a Captain or Lieutenant to be deployed.
    WC-51
    50cal HMG upgrade cost from 60 to 45
    Receives shared experience
    Refit and Refuel
    Re-added to the game in free slot
    Combined Arms
    Added in place of M21 Mortar Halftrack

    Alternative suggestions:
    "Refit and refuel" redesigned to now replaces a vehicle with another for the cost:
    This gives a player more room to invest in light vehicles since he can now replace with with better as the game progress.
    WC51 can be refitted to an M3
    M3 can be refitted to M21
    optional:
    M20 can be refitted for grayhound
    Stuart can be refitted to m10
    Sherman can be refitted to a 76mm Sherman

    Refit can be locked behind tech or XP level of the unit.

    76mm Sherman
    Population from 14 to 12
    Cost from 380/135 to 380/125

    The unit needs to vet bonuses looked at it can reload under 2 sec and with combined arms the unit will be broken. The unit can be moved to Armor company where it better suited thematically

    Other suggestion:
    Move m10 to this commander since it can then be a call-in unit with out causing an issues since the Dozer/m10 combo will not be available.

    It even suits the commander better thematically.

  • #18
    1 month ago

    German infantry doctrine Feedback

    Veteran Squad Leaders:
    I really like this one, But I think 60 munitions is a bit much for additional Gren with a g43 (which the unit has to return to base to be reinforced). I would lower cost to 50 munitions or make the veteran Squad Leaders gives a -15% cooldown on abilities along with the g43-gren

    Artillery Field officer:
    Artillery Field officer is better suited for support and indirect fire heavy play. I think the Stug-E would fit better with the Infantry play this commander encourages

    Storm troopers
    Love the change they are great ambush troopers now, but would like Vet-1 First aid ability replaced the -20% cool down on abilities

  • #19
    1 month ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,662
    edited August 30

    BRITISH
    GENERAL FACTION CHANGES
    Trialing change where Sappers, and Recovery Sappers have access to HEAT Grenades (The same as BOIS Tank Hunter Sections)
    Trialing change where Infantry Section/Tommies can now plant M7 Light AT Mines; replica of the Rear Echelon Mines.
    BRITISH ARTILLERY

    The m7 have no reason to be available to Tommies, they already can be built sandbags and trenches and feel more like engineer unit. If Tommies need some sort of snare the heavy gammon bomb can be redesigned and NOT be model after the normal satchel charges.
    In addition since now UKF have normal snares one should rethink the rest of their snares and AT weapon like ATG accuracy bonus, tread break, sniper snare, heavy gammon bombs, tullips snare part.

    Sexton
    Changes intended to give similar performance to USF priest, with some different characteristics.
    AOE damage from 1/0.25/0.1 to 1/0.5/0.2
    AOE distance from 1.5/3/4.5 to 1.25/2.5/6
    Range from 135 to 160
    Supercharge Victor Creeping Barrage no longer shares a cooldown with the main barrage

    Again a step in the wrong direction, modeling a unit after a unit of another faction is usually bad idea.
    Sexton has very low CD that scale with veterancy (-40 barrage CD). With the purposed changes and the changes to valentine the sheer volume of fire Sexton can provide is over the top, proving almost continues fire

    Suggestions:
    Start with a smaller change to AOE like 120% instead of of 200% and if any more firepower is needed move to vet.

    Valentine
    Changes intended to make this unit more potent in combat.
    Main gun damage from 80 to 120
    Population from 12 to 8
    Sexton Creeping Barrage no longer requires veterancy 1

    The combination of fighting abilities and the utility of radar is simply too much for this unit.
    Suggestions:
    Remove radar from the unit and balance the unit as light/medium tank with vet bonuses/abilities suit for the role.

    Allow the radar as an upgrade to the vehicle similar to command vehicle that add penalties to fight capabilities of the vehicles and would be limited to one. This change will allow the vehicle to be balanced allot better.

    Reduce the vehicles ability to crush infantry.

    Perimeter Overwatch
    Now launches an off-map mortar shell every 8 seconds and 25 pdr shells every 16 seconds at enemies in friendly sector. This applies on a sector-by-sector basis.

    This ability does not suit the commander, it should be swamped with "counter fire" ability available to advance emplacement commander that should not have that ability in the first place. Having the ability to make better emplacement and the ability to counter their natural counters with "counter fire" is very bad design and should be removed. On the other hand moving the ability in this commander will make solidify the commander an responce to enemy spamming artillery.

    Concentration barrage
    This ability overlap with pyrotechnic allot and is redundant is a more powerful Sexton exists.
    Suggestions:
    Replace with "smoke" ability, ability now provides smoke instead of HE CP could go down to 2. Pyrotechnics now also provides smoke barrage for tommies.

    TACTICAL SUPPORT
    Artillery Cover - Removed
    Swapped out for Churchill Crocodile

    Adding Croc to commander making it one of the most common abilities available to 3 commanders is not needed and not suited to the theme. It almost seem as if croc is put in the commander s it can enter scope, so that it can be balanaced which is a very bad approach. If a doctrinal unit is needed one can add a Sherman or M10 or Dozer.

    Churchill Crocodile
    The Crocodile has been adjusted to have its gun match other tanks. Smoke has also been added to allow the Crocodile to provide combat support.
    Main gun damage from 80 to 160
    Can now fire smoke shells; ability similar to Comet and Cromwell’s Smoke Shot

    Suggestions:
    Lower rear armour which is simply too high. ()same applies to some other vehicles also.
    Remove dot damage from flames (this change can apply to all vehicles) add an ability that add the dot flames but aim at a specific area.
    Changes smoke of the vehicles to solidify the role as an infantry support vehicle. Smoke instead of shot blocker now work like the older version of commando smoke providing "cover bonus" status to infantry without the cover bonuses. The unit now offer synergy with infantry.

    Recovery Sapper Squad
    Cost from 450 to 230 Manpower – one squad instead of two
    Can throw smoke grenades for 15 munitions
    Repair speed from 1.6 to 1.85

    Forward Observation Post
    Upgrade available to the Forward Assembly which grants the FOP abilities to the Assembly
    Costs 100 manpower and 10 fuel

    For more info about commander design here:
    https://www.coh2.org/topic/81270/commander-rework-approach
    and
    https://www.coh2.org/topic/81491/suggestions-for-commanders-revamp

  • #20
    1 month ago
    GlitshyGlitshy Posts: 22

    So I gave Elite Armour a shot, and these are my observations:
    Panzer Commander is still kinda meh. The improved sight radius is the only real reason to use it, as the Coordinated Barrage is still only useful against completely stationary targets as it is very precise and only fires four shots. At least it's cheaper now so it's usable while still not spectacular.
    I agree that vehicle detection and heat didn't need a change as those were arguably the two best abilities of the commander anyways.
    Emergency Repair is bearable better now, but why does it share a cooldown with HEAT ammo? That makes no sense.
    Sturmtiger is still/again in the best case OK and in the worst case useless. It has very much the same effect as any call-in artillery: It forces back the enemy (or forces him to charge you even faster, and the Stumtiger can easily be overrun before it fires). It is mainly useful for fending off attacks, but not attacking. Due to the reduced AOE damage it is now even worse at dealing with emplacements unless you directly hit. Since it's release the Sturmtiger has gotten consistently worse, remember, it used to be able to one shot mediums at 50 range though buildings. Earning veterancy is also even slower now due to lower kill potential.

    A friend of mine used German Infantry in the 2v2 and from my observations it at least got considerably better than previously, though sacrificing the MG42 upgrade for the 5th grenadier squad member seems harsh. Maybe give the squad leader some sort of temporary buff ability to bring up DPS, but it doesn't seem necessary. Also it would be nice for Stormtroopers to have the accuracy buff with lower movement speed ability (forgot the name) they used to have with the Stg upgrade.

  • #21
    1 month ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,063

    Adding to what @Vipper said, it seems like the reason for Brits to have all these extra AT bonuses (lack of snare) is being done away with. If sappers get HEAT grenades I don't see any reason the 6 pounder should keep its accuracy bonus vs lights.

    I know the Brits are struggling right now, but let's lightly shove them forward, not launch them with a catapult.

  • #22
    1 month ago
    Andy_REAndy_RE Posts: 186 admin
    edited August 29

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    @Andy_RE Hi I am confused by the latest post in the updates. Are those changes added to the patch or are they replacing the ones originally listed? The dozer had a lot of other vet changes I hope weren't scrapped.

    I've updated the notes to reflect the whole update, live as of 1.2. The changes in 1.2 are now also set out below for easy reference.

    https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245307/commander-revamp-preview-changelog/p1?new=1

    Thanks for all the feedback so far guys. We're considering many of the items mentioned in here at the moment.

  • #23
    1 month ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… At TenagraPosts: 2,063
    Thanks for the clarification!
  • #24
    1 month ago
    WiderstreitWiderstre… Posts: 950
    @Vipper I like your comments, don't understand why you get so many dislikes.
  • #25
    1 month ago

    12 matches played as soviets, ostheer and brits. 2v2. Walls of text are under spoilers.
    Soviet changes are OK, but:

    1. Shock-troops change is unnecessary. They are performing well in life-version of game.
    2. Forward HQ must be more expensive: 300 mp for it should be fine. It is great, that forward HQ is already designed to cancel reinforce if point is taken by enemy or neutral, there should be the same thing with cutting it off from friendly sectors.

    Now the most creepy thing I have seen in this mod:
    UKF
    -Trialing change where Sappers, and Recovery Sappers have access to HEAT Grenades (The same as BOIS Tank Hunter Sections)
    -Trialing change where Infantry Section/Tommies can now plant M7 Light AT Mines; replica of the Rear Echelon Mines.

    This is a REALLY big mistake. UKF already has a plenty of tools to deal with armor. Having a doctrinal AT-section were nesessary as doctrinal access to snares with a big reinforcement price. Giving a squad that can be five-man, has reinforcement cost 24 (even 26 is too low) and access to double-PIAT is making literally the most overpowered AT-squad in the game. At the same time having so much tools to destroy early/middle game armor like AT-gun with increased anti-light accuracy, M3 mines, m7 mines, PIAT and AEC will make UKF literally immune to any axis vehicles which will come from OKW T1/T2 and ostheer T2.
    T7 mines are unnecessary for tommies because they must lack on AT-duties when they are superior on AI. As the same time T7 is unnecessary for sappers because they alreay have M3 mines undoctrinally.
    In my opinion UKF access to snares must be doctrinal. Giving a HEAT-grenade to Recovery sappers is a good idea, they are doctrinal. Choosing from two doctrines will be nice. Including there M7 mines for tommies will not hurt balance much.
    Undoctrinal snare for UKF will completely insanely buff the faction what is strong as it is.
    If there is a problem of doing something with unexpected early light-vehicle creepy rush like Luchs/251 flame halftrack then UKF, which has great AT-gun to deal with lights should sacrifice something more than 25/30 muni for full-retreat with saved squads.
    For example, an experiment when tommies can "button" (like guards) ONLY light vehicle with rifle fire for 25 munition and vulnerability (like USF RE). It will give an opportunitiy to make a succesful retreat from creepy early rusher or slow it down to increase difficulty of AT-gun flanking and at the same time will not be succesful if enemy have covered his vehicle properly with infantry what can slice tommie-squad when "button vehicle" ability is activated and tommies are not covered.

    About Sexton/Valentine buffs everything is written already by Vipper.

    Ostheer:
    **Defensive doctrine **changes are OK, but Stug E still be weird choice. It just is not as good as Scott when Ostheer really needs that type of unit.

    German infantry doctrine:
    At first i was expecting a really good change, but:
    Grenadier-upgrade is too expensive and does not give that what Ostheer can have doctrinally to use as a possibility.
    If we will start to count how much OH-player is paying for 5-man upgrade we will see that he is waiting for 2 CPs then uses 60 muni and 30 MP for 1 single squad so price of this squad is 270 MP and 60 muni (10 manpower difference between WFA-mainlines and grens in this case is not valid because of lower reinforcement-cost of RMs and tommies). By using a cheat-commands mode i have checked 1 on 1 squad combat with every linear and 2CP-doctrinal infantry of allies, results are under spoiler.

    Riflemen, which cost only 280 manpower still be in equal combat quality with 5-men grens with 1 G43: close distance is >!in favor of RM, middle distnce is RNG-dependent and long-distance combat is in favor of grens.
    Grens are already beating RM in long-ranged combat, so this upgrade is necessary only to... Have the same chance to >!win at middle range? Well, quiet weak argument to purchase that upgrade, price is too big. However, 5-men grens still >!can lose a middle-tange combat to RM and RM still have an option to pick up a 1 BAR to make sure that grens will lose >!combat at the same condition (cover) or 2 if USF player need to pass through bad condition.
    Penals with 300 mp cost still performing better than 5-men grens.
    4-men infantry section have lost to 5-men grens several times but any upgrade leaves no chance to grens.
    Guards were on same line with PTRS without DP28, always winning with only 6 mosins and win quiet quickly with standart 2 PTRS 2 mosin 2 DP28 build.

    After those checks i added an LMG-42 to already upgraded 5-men squad and results are here:

    30.cal RM still be on same chance to deal with 5-men grens when conditions are the same (close/middle/long range like >!in previous spoiler
    Double-BAR RM are beating 5-men grens on all distances except long range and same thing is happening when grens are stock 4-men with MG-42 equipped.
    5-men tommies with 1 bren have a little less chance to deal with 5-men gren but double-bren gives guaranteed victory-result
    Penals wiped out, still bringing a lot of casualties on close distance.
    PPSH-cons still can rush with "ooorah" into positions of 5-men grens win them, if they rush with "no cover". To be fair, they have 50/50 win chance.

    Timing of 2CPs is a timing for soviet and OKW elite infantry. If we will leave things as they are, 60-muni 5 men grens will have same combat quality than WFA mainlines and soviet undoctrinal elites from the stock tech nearly on minute 4-6.
    In this case i don't believe that point of doctrine is achieved. This doctrine, as i understand, is a doctrine of maximum focus on Ostheer infantry improvements by munition investigation. In this case if we want to make this doctrinal effective this doctrine should have a possibility to require both upgrades: 5th men upgrade and LMG42 each by it's own price. As well cost of increasing a single gren squad size should be reduced to 45 muni, so the whole upgrade price for 1 gren squad will be 105 muni. Then we will have a doctrine what solves a problem of infantry supremacy of allies against Ostheer by making Ostheer infantry nearly the same as allied one.

    234 Puma

    Trialing change where Puma now requires Battlephase 2 and is deployed from the Leichte Mechanized Kompanie

    If this change will come to release then Ostheer will lose it's "Comeback-doctrine" for sure. After Puma's nerf year ago the whole idea of it is a "a little better AEC". AEC is great when you have it on stock tech, but it is not a reason to pick a doctrine, research it and get it and buy. As well Puma's cost is 80 fuel when good old Stug G performs better and costs 90 fuel.
    If you want puma to be buildable, just add it into Leichte Mechanised with a price of 300 mp and 70 fuel, that's enough for it's quality and will be even better because sometimes 5CP is too much to wait when you need that unit like "Right meow".

  • #26
    1 month ago
    BitBit CanadaPosts: 2
    edited August 30

    Any chance we can see the XML files so we can check things like the new Stormtrooper MP40 accuracy? Or how much the buff is on the new Grenadier veteran squad leader?

  • #27
    1 month ago

    @LetzteJunker

    On the German Infantry doctrine what if they replaced the Field officers with Jeager light infantry package. For 105 Munitions(or 90 if Veteran Squad Leaders is reduced to 45) you would have a 5 man squad equipped 3 g43s with two open slots making them sorta like Panzerfusiliers for Ostheer.

  • #28
    1 month ago
    FuriousFrazierFuriousFr… Posts: 2
    edited August 31

    Why do stormtroopers not gain the full benefits of the jaeger light infantry upgrade (interrogation) like grens and pgrens?

  • #30
    1 month ago
    PanzerFutzPanzerFutz Melbourne, OzPosts: 220
    edited August 30

    I have tried out the new Soviet NKVD, the OKW Overwatch and the Wehrmacht Infantry commanders and here's my opinion

    NKVD Rifle Disruption Tactics

    Much better than the previous version but, the Commissar Squad needs more work. Stand Your Ground and Fight To The Death should apply to any infantry squad within the Commissar's aura automatically, the same way it does for the Wehrmacht Artillery Officer. It's really cheesy having them apply to only one unit, which you have to take the time to select in the middle of a battle. Make them cost more but, definitely make them work better. Don't dump them on us as they are because, they seem like half-arsed versions at this point.

    The rest of the commander seemed fine to me although, Scorched Earth Policy seems very hit and miss - more so than Booby Trap.

    Overwatch

    It's an improvement but, not by as much as I was hoping. Early Warning System is good, mostly because it merges two things into one. The Jaegers are handy, especially for infiltration, but they're a weak combat unit on their own. Booby Trap is their redeeming feature.

    The artillery piece is much better than the airstrike it replaces. Not because it does more damage but, because it does it cheaper. I like the Direct Fire veterancy buff but, I didn't get the chance to see if it's as crappy as the B-4 Howitzer version. For something that takes Vet 5 to unlock, it better be able to actually hit a target. Also, it would have been nice to see the Vet 1 ability be Overwatch instead of Counter-Battery (you know, so it would match the doctrine) but, I guess that's too much to ask.

    German Infantry Doctrine

    It certainly fits the name now. I like the Stormtroopers and I'm willing to see Relief Infantry go to make room for them. I'm not as willing to see the Light Artillery Barrage go to make room for Veteran Squad Leaders. The idea is good but, yet again we're getting a half-arsed version. If it applied to all four man teams (as it should), it would be worth it - the extra man and the veterancy buff will pay off quite quickly. However, an ability that only applies to Pioneers and Grenadiers is not a good trade-off for the arty barrage.

    Unlike some others, I don't have a problem with the Grenadier version. The upgrade not only adds a man with a G43, it also adds scopes to all the other Mausers. This makes the unit very potent at long range but, it's no good at close combat. Put this unit in a building with a HMG team and and they'll make mincemeat of any infantry that comes within range. With the veterancy buff, this unit quickly becomes very deadly - nearly as good as a sniper and quite a bit more resilient.

    I'll try out the other commanders I have next and give my opinion on them later.

  • #31
    1 month ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 166

    Kindly change StuG E vet Stun shot. Its really overlapping with Pak, Regular stug, and Elephant.
    Its not even a vehicle destroyer. What a weird vet for a Anti-Infantry tank.

    Maybe change it to bunker buster. That would be relevant to its role.
    or
    Barage like the Zis gun/su75

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