[1vs1-4vs4] [Soviet] Soviet medic upgrade too expensive

#1
7 months ago

OKW's medic upgrade just cost 100MP, and that could be forwarded rather than in base.
Wehrmacht cost 150, sure it cost 60 mun also but it has the benifit to be forwarded.

Soviet has no benifits at all but cost 250 MP, its too much.

Fix: Reduce the cost to 150MP instead, it has no benifits like the other factions, nor as USF and UKF that can forward it as well.

Comments

  • #2
    7 months ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,258
    edited September 2018
    OKWs also costs 10-15(?) fuel and is tied to a specific tech, so I'm not with you there. Soviets have the most accessible healing in the game. It's the HQ, no fuel or Muni cost; hence why it costs the most manpower.

    In my opinion, 150 mp and 60 Muni is "more expensive" than just 250mp, especially in the early game. Manpower trickles in faster in the early game that at any other point since you have fewer units, whereas muni/fuel trickles in slower than at any other point because there's less map control. Soviets have the best deal for healing if you ask me
  • #3
    7 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,006
    edited September 2018

    I think based on the aaaages old currency conversion that is definitely out of date, 150 MP + 60 muni was like.... 240 - 250 MP equivalent?

    Also yeah. Soviet healing is fine. No real need to change it at all.

  • #4
    7 months ago
    Biggest problem I have with the Soviet healing is that it's all they get and it's locked into the base sector. Best I could hope for is an upgrade in T3 or 4 that allows maybe for more medics since they were reduced from 6 to 3. In team games for example it's frustrating spending a squads worth of mp on your only healers and have them run a mile away to heal your allies troops instead of your own waiting at base with no other opinions to heal and no control over them.
  • #5
    7 months ago
    @thedarkarmadillo Yeah for a while now I wish they would reduce the range of the medics walking because of what you just described. That's one way the medics could definitely be improved.
  • #6
    7 months ago
    mrdjjag81mrdjjag81 Posts: 231
    edited September 2018

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    OKWs also costs 10-15(?) fuel and is tied to a specific tech, so I'm not with you there. Soviets have the most accessible healing in the game. It's the HQ, no fuel or Muni cost; hence why it costs the most manpower.

    In my opinion, 150 mp and 60 Muni is "more expensive" than just 250mp, especially in the early game. Manpower trickles in faster in the early game that at any other point since you have fewer units, whereas muni/fuel trickles in slower than at any other point because there's less map control. Soviets have the best deal for healing if you ask me

    Problem is the prio you need to make early, you need to spend 250MP on healing or get out an early at for 320MP since u most need it at the same time. Also, you ignored a bit the advantage both owk and ost has in term of healing forward instead in base, which its a pretty huge deal for 60mun + or 10-15 fuel compare to 250MP imo. As stated abow also the medics get stuck in squads and not healing properly or goes to your neighbur and heal them instead of you takes forever at times. I see no problem with dropping the MP 100 in return in contrast to others healing system

  • #7
    7 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,006
    Theres a massive problem with dropping their healing to 100 MP. That's way too cheap.

    OKWs healing isn't just 10-15 fuel. It's 10-15 fuel *and a tech building* meanwhile ostheers medics are vulnerable to a stiff breeze because bunkers aren't durable at all.

    Also what are you talking about mentioning AT guns? That has absolutely nothing to do with medics - and if it did well everyone else has other stuff they could spend resources on too. Ost could spend 60 muni on a lmg for Grens which they need to stay competitive, or 50 of that muni on a teller mine which they need to stop light vehicles.

    OKW could completely miss their medics altogether because they needed to get light vehicles out.
  • #8
    7 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,716
    edited September 2018
    @Lazarus only thing to add is that Soviet have no other option. They HAVE to go to base to do it whereas all other factions can have it on field and even multiple at the same time. As Ost if you find yourself up on munitions it's possible to have a forward healing bunker (that if push comes to shove can be garrisoned) , hell they COULD even use their vet 1 kits. UKF have the same, but better obviously because they are designed to be a better Ost. Usf have a fuel cost on it but the ambulance is a solid healing platform and can also be disembarked and recrewed with RE for double heals. Okw have the now absolutely fantastic Sturm kits offering AOE heals as well as the med truck as well as self heal on multiple squads..
    And Soviet has 3 medics in their base.

    If it was of the caliber of the other abilities I'd say keep it where it is but it absolutely isn't. It's the most restrictive and least effective full stop.

    Edit: also worth adding that despite having the largest squads and not even the most effective squads Soviet medic upgrade isn't AOE. It's 3 models that have to touch who they need to heal making it even less cost effective as if each model takes hits each model has to get a handy whereas other factions could have 439 models all healed up in the time it takes to heal 1)
  • #9
    7 months ago
    @mrdjjag81 I didn't ignore anything, you are overestimating how much of an advantage that is. US and UKF both have the ability to heal and reinforce on the field and the Soviets are the wayyy stronger faction than either of them at the moment.

    If you're gonna start talking about AT guns and the rest of the opening 10 mins, than the entire conversation is different. Ostheer needs to spend more than twice the fuel to unlock AT guns than the Soviets do.

    Just making the medics stay closer to the HQ is all that's needed. Maybe add a 4th medic to make things less clunky but the cost is totally fine and there is very little issue here.
  • #10
    7 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    Adding medic sounds good. They are only faction that can only heal in base and they don't have any healing option.

  • #11
    7 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,006

    @thedarkarmadillo said:
    @Lazarus only thing to add is that Soviet have no other option. They HAVE to go to base to do it whereas all other factions can have it on field and even multiple at the same time.

    I swear we put the medkits on to the M3 but I can't check right now - there's mention of M3 medkits in the revamp notes but I can't tell if it's for the Soviet car or not at a glance. If it's not the case, then surely adding those medkits to the M3 would be the better option (provides forward heal, and AoE at that) then just a flat buff to the HQ medics.

    @thedarkarmadillo said:

    Edit: also worth adding that despite having the largest squads and not even the most effective squads Soviet medic upgrade isn't AOE. It's 3 models that have to touch who they need to heal making it even less cost effective as if each model takes hits each model has to get a handy whereas other factions could have 439 models all healed up in the time it takes to heal 1)

    I hear you - but I find this more a reason to nerf AoE heals than to buff the single model heals. But at this point you and I both know I feel that damage should be more punishing to all factions infantry.

  • #12
    7 months ago
    ValkyrieValkyrie Posts: 2,132
    edited September 2018

    I don't think the cost is the problem, but rather that its tied to the main base. The medic station should be an independent building which can be placed anywhere. The Soviets need field healing and reinforcement, like literally all other factions have.

  • #13
    6 months ago

    well Heal is a must have everytime! but with russian the cost is huge cause the heal = conscript, maxim ,mortar

    with russian in 1vs1 i most part of the time i buy it when i have Extra MP and im safe n my build is out 3-4 penal + rifle guard or Maxim + Mortar +At out with conscript

    Cause no matter if your squad is full life Vs a rush light tank they will do shit and go back to HQ ) sometime i will do it before AT gun but only if i know my rifleguard will do the jobs

    N in team game just dont buy it work with USA and Brit

  • #14
    6 months ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549

    on my opinion it should not be medic-to-model heal but area heal, and this for everyone, leaving the medic models stay to inform that such structure has been upgraded to medical supply.

    At the end of the day they just menacingly stare people instead of having a real animation anyway.

  • #15
    6 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,567

    4 medics instead of 3 would suffice.

  • #16
    5 months ago
    mrpeedmrpeed Posts: 22

    Eh, I'm fine with it. You just have to click a button to get it and it's tied to your HQ so you're guaranteed to have it all game. Wher you need to have a squad at your base to build it, and then upgrade it, and it also can be destroyed. OKW is tied to a tech and you have to pay fuel for it, it can also be destroyed if it's outside your base. USF cost fuel and can be destroyed. British require manual effort with infantry sections with an upgrade. I think the convenience of the Soviet healing upgrade makes it worth it's price.

  • #17
    5 months ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,716
    Maybe make it 2 clicks instead of 1 so it can not be the least flexible least effecient healing in the game then
  • #18
    5 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 242
    edited November 2018

    Healing in middle of the map is really convenient. Especially with defensive faction like Ost,Brit or Okw Fortified doc. That where you can heal yourself when not in combat but also be ready if there is an attack into your middle-map-base defensive position

  • #19
    3 months ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2018

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    OKWs also costs 10-15(?) fuel and is tied to a specific tech, so I'm not with you there. Soviets have the most accessible healing in the game. It's the HQ, no fuel or Muni cost; hence why it costs the most manpower.

    In my opinion, 150 mp and 60 Muni is "more expensive" than just 250mp, especially in the early game. Manpower trickles in faster in the early game that at any other point since you have fewer units, whereas muni/fuel trickles in slower than at any other point because there's less map control. Soviets have the best deal for healing if you ask me

    cant say i agree.

    its easier for me to get healing as wehrmacht than it is to get healing as soviets. partly due to me bleeding quite a deal more as soviets (wehrmacht feels much easier early game), and partly because im not in general, the best at unit preservation. thus, the bunker cost + the munitions cost for Wehrmacht seems very easy for me to get hold of. and you can put it in your base, so it works exactly like the healing at HQ for soviets.

    on the other hand playing soviets, i often dont even get the healing upgrade untill mid or late game, because i cant for the world of it, find the time to waste 250 to get healing. i could have gotten one more unit for that manpower.

    i definitly feel like the soviets pay too much for healing. the 250 manpower is excruciating.

  • #20
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    @Beardedragon said:
    for me to get healing as wehrmacht than it is to get healing as soviets. partly due to me bleeding quite a deal more as soviets (wehrmacht feels much easier early game), and partly because im not in general, the best at unit preservation.

    Have you ever considered that you might be bleeding so much because you do not have healing?

  • #21
    3 months ago

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    for me to get healing as wehrmacht than it is to get healing as soviets. partly due to me bleeding quite a deal more as soviets (wehrmacht feels much easier early game), and partly because im not in general, the best at unit preservation.

    Have you ever considered that you might be bleeding so much because you do not have healing?

    yes i have and thats not the problem. i mean sure you bleed more without healing, but how early would you like me to get healing? before the molotov upgrade?

    because we're talking early game here. i simply win more engagements as wehrmacht because i have to hold the lines, and i have the glorious MG42 and great mortars to support my already great grenadiers who win at long range versus conscripts. i tend to be able to beat back allied pushes in the early game more than i am at pushing back axis as allies. when the retreat is ordered for the enemy, you have a big breathing room which often allows me to pay for the bunker + healing.

    on the other hand given how the soviets are structured, i dont always have a perfect opportunity to get the 250 manpower healing as soviets. its easier to hold the line with fewer soldiers as Wehrmacht i feel, than soviets, and thus i find it harder to pay 250 manpower for healing. on the other hand, i often have spare munitions as soviets in the early game due to the lack of upgradable weapons, so i would like to trade some manpower for munitions.

    its not that i dont litter the field with mines, but i still have spare munitions.

  • #22
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721
    edited December 2018

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    for me to get healing as wehrmacht than it is to get healing as soviets. partly due to me bleeding quite a deal more as soviets (wehrmacht feels much easier early game), and partly because im not in general, the best at unit preservation.

    Have you ever considered that you might be bleeding so much because you do not have healing?

    yes i have and thats not the problem. i mean sure you bleed more without healing, but how early would you like me to get healing? before the molotov upgrade?

    Depends on what you are fighting, the map and what doctrine you are using.

    Conscripts spam especially without PPsh will probably not work against OKW.

  • #23
    3 months ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2018

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    for me to get healing as wehrmacht than it is to get healing as soviets. partly due to me bleeding quite a deal more as soviets (wehrmacht feels much easier early game), and partly because im not in general, the best at unit preservation.

    Have you ever considered that you might be bleeding so much because you do not have healing?

    yes i have and thats not the problem. i mean sure you bleed more without healing, but how early would you like me to get healing? before the molotov upgrade?

    Depends on what you are fighting, the map and what doctrine you are using.

    Conscripts spam especially without PPsh will probably not work against OKW.

    true. anyway im just pointing out that i can more easily find manpower to pay in the early parts of the game as wehrmacht, than i can as soviets. people dont have to agree.

    but in general there are a handful of things i would like to see changed for the soviets.

    like a cheaper or different paid version of healing at HQ, like munitions + smaller manpower count. and for molotovs to be mixed in with the AT grenade upgrade. for a cost thats more expensive than molotov upgrade, but less expensive than the AT grenade one. or maybe keep it at the AT grenade level. i dont know. as it is now, everyone seemingly have free AT grenades except the soviets who have to make side upgrades.

    (yes i know axis pays for it as well, but as part of their teching which they cant avoid). if soviets had to get AT nades by teching to tier 3 id be fine with that too.

    in fact if i didnt have to also pay for AT nades, maybe paying 250 manpower for healing wouldnt be a problem? i dont know. spewing ideas here.

  • #24
    3 months ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,721

    @Beardedragon said:
    true. anyway im just pointing out that i can more easily find manpower to pay in the early parts of the game as wehrmacht, than i can as soviets. people dont have to agree.

    True on the other hand 60 munition means one less lmg with Wer player need for their grenadier to remain competitive.

    Grenadier vs Conscripts are some of the best design and implement balanced in the game, it the rest of the faction that are problematic.

  • #25
    3 months ago

    @Vipper said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    true. anyway im just pointing out that i can more easily find manpower to pay in the early parts of the game as wehrmacht, than i can as soviets. people dont have to agree.

    True on the other hand 60 munition means one less lmg with Wer player need for their grenadier to remain competitive.

    Grenadier vs Conscripts are some of the best design and implement balanced in the game, it the rest of the faction that are problematic.

    on this point, i agree.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

  • © SEGA. SEGA, the SEGA logo, Relic Entertainment, the Relic Entertainment logo, Company of Heroes and the Company of Heroes logo are either trademarks or registered trademarks of SEGA Holdings Co., Ltd. or its affiliates. All rights reserved. SEGA is registered in the US Patent and Trademark Office. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.