[USF] [any] Make the Comet tank more of choice again

2

Comments

  • #32
    2 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    Lol. Comet has better armor than panther bud. Comet is faster and smaller target size too.
    Vet0 comet 290/110
    Vet2 panther 286/99
    https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245529/allies-tanks-need-a-rear-armour-nerf-or#latest

    Reason why comet is less use since brit has better strat. ATG 5man bren firefly Churchill enough to stomp axis faction.

    Comet is a non doctrine Pershing now. That is op af
  • #33
    2 years ago
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > Lol. Comet has better armor than panther bud. Comet is faster and smaller target size too.

    You just gonna pretend the Panther doesn't have more health? And more range? And more penetration? And a faster reload?

    > @mrgame2 said:
    > Comet is a non doctrine Pershing now. That is op af

    If you actually believe this then you are an intensely biased Axis player and you need to play allies more. The Comet isn't even the best tank in it's own tech structure, and the Pershing is 10 times better than the Comet.
  • #34
    2 years ago

    Dont forget the Panther has the fast turrent rotation also and it actually can be manover prortly without start doing a 180 degrees all of the sudden when theres a grasstraw in its way, lol

  • #35
    2 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited December 2018
    Since this topic got posted, panther and brumbar have seen nerfs to their armor. There is your comet buff.

    Yes the Pershing main gun is better penetrating, but wehr main unit armor is weak now, comet higher speed, better faster damage on the move and smaller target size out weighs the panther still slow rotating turret, that has lower penetration than comet armor.

    Comet + firefly combo beats 2 panther or panther + brumbar today. Same as Jackson + Pershing. There is no further need to buff a very strong comet now.

    Panther 'more' health only allows it to last a whopping 1 more shot from allies tanks, vs higher armor comet that can skid in and about. Yeah big advantage...
  • #36
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited December 2018
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > the panther still slow rotating turret, that has lower penetration than comet armor.

    So fucking what? Who the hell cares that it has lower penetration than comet armor, the Jackson also has lower penetration than KingTiger armor, does that mean the Jackson is bad against the KT? No, obviously it doesn't. Because that's an idiotic way of looking at it.


    > @mrgame2 said:
    > Panther 'more' health only allows it to last a whopping 1 more shot from allies tanks, vs higher armor comet that can skid in and about. Yeah big advantage.

    What about range? And reload speed? And penetration? The comet has a 65% chance of penetrating the panther at max range, the Panther has a 75% of penetrating the comet at max range. So your point is complete bullshit
  • #37
    2 years ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 900

    Alright

    • Allied should not have snare so they can bleed mp vs Kubel spam in open field early game
    • OKW should have camoATgun combine with faust at start game to able to counter Carrier or M3
    • Axis MG 120degree arc with Armor piercing round should be as strong as Maxim 90degree acr without Armor piercing
    • Soviet 6men slower firerate mortar should have 4men to be in line with Ost fasted mortar fire rate 4men
    • Luch come to the field 50fuel earlier than T70 should perform equal to T70
    • Soviet glass model CE should not go in 6men weapon teams, but decreased to 4men
    • Soviet IS2 slow fire rate/accuracy should have armor equal to Tiger
    • Panther faster than Jackson being 50range should be increased to 55range so they arent outrange by Jackson but can outspeed to Jackson
    • Panther armor should be equal to Comet
    • Doctrine KV8 should be worse than non-doc Brumbar
    • Shock troops 6men 360mp hopeless against vehicles should be decreased to 4men so they can be in pair with Fallschirm who can camo and faust
    • IL2 loiter should not be in game, but Stuka loiter does

    What else do I miss?

  • #38
    2 years ago
    > @mrdjjag81 said:
    > If people worry about it to be spamed you cant win by just spam one unit

    Musta been a while since yuu played. Heavies, rifles> @SkysTheLimit said:
    > > @mrgame2 said:
    > > the panther still slow rotating turret, that has lower penetration than comet armor.
    >
    > So fucking what? Who the hell cares that it has lower penetration than comet armor, the Jackson also has lower penetration than KingTiger armor, does that mean the Jackson is bad against the KT? No, obviously it doesn't. Because that's an idiotic way of looking at it.
    >
    >
    > > @mrgame2 said:
    > > Panther 'more' health only allows it to last a whopping 1 more shot from allies tanks, vs higher armor comet that can skid in and about. Yeah big advantage.
    >
    > What about range? And reload speed? And penetration? The comet has a 65% chance of penetrating the panther at max range, the Panther has a 75% of penetrating the comet at max range. So your point is complete bullshit
    >
    >
    >
    >

    The comet is there to give the brits a one up on p4s and sub panther units. The panther is there to offer a counter to the comet.

    Keep in mind that axis stock TDs (stug and jp4) lack range or pen respectively meaning if that's their only options the comet can reign Supreme while brits maintain the firefly for hardened targets. With the armour nerf the panther received its even more manageable than ever. The comet is more durable but less offensive. Idk what you want from it mate. It's an over grown cromwell. If you have the fuel for it it's a good unit with clear advantages over its lesser kin. Don't think of it as a pseudo panther, think of the relationship more like the t34/76 and t34/85. The price difference is greater of course but so are the buffed statsm
  • #39
    2 years ago
    SkysTheLimitSkysTheLi… Posts: 2,271
    edited December 2018
    @thedarkarmadillo Yo what?? I don't have complaints about the Comet. I have complaint about the person who believes its still overpowered. Read more through the thread, I am not complaining about it's performance.

    I have no problem with the panther beating the comet. My problem is Mr. Game saying the comet=pershing, and that the panther sucks in comparison. Both of those are stupidly false. The comet was nerfed ages ago, and a little too much if anything.
  • #40
    2 years ago

    @SkysTheLimit my bad if you felt i targeted you, it was meant as an add on not a conflicting comment

  • #41
    2 years ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,096

    It's just how this forum works, when you quote someones post where they @ someone, you @ the person you quote, and the person they @'d.

    Anyway, my dude is right. Comets don't beat Panthers and Tigers, but that's pretty much it - otherwise they dominate armored combat.

  • #42
    2 years ago
    BeardedragonBeardedra… Posts: 1,495
    edited December 2018

    pathing could be a thing. not that its a buff though, i mean any given unit should have proper pathing.

    i just want the comet to be able to stand up to Panthers at least, since that what they were designed to do in the game. to stop the heavy late game armor spam of axis.

  • #43
    2 years ago
    thedarkarmadillothedarkar… Posts: 5,824
    edited December 2018

    @Beardedragon said:
    pathing could be a thing. not that its a buff though, i mean any given unit should have proper pathing.

    i just want the comet to be able to stand up to Panthers at least, since that what they were designed to do in the game. to stop the heavy late game armor spam of axis.

    the comet is there to give them a tank with meat on it (290 armour and 800hp is just that) the firefly is there to give it to the goose steppin bastards.

    there is exactly 1 tank that is DESIGNED to go blow to blow with axis tanks and thats the is-2

    edit: the panther exists to counter units like the comet, not the other way around.

  • #44
    2 years ago

    I think the problem here is Cromwell is too good for its price, so no one want a larger Cromwell (Comet).

  • #45
    2 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496

    @thedarkarmadillo said:

    @Beardedragon said:
    pathing could be a thing. not that its a buff though, i mean any given unit should have proper pathing.

    i just want the comet to be able to stand up to Panthers at least, since that what they were designed to do in the game. to stop the heavy late game armor spam of axis.

    the comet is there to give them a tank with meat on it (290 armour and 800hp is just that) the firefly is there to give it to the goose steppin bastards.

    there is exactly 1 tank that is DESIGNED to go blow to blow with axis tanks and thats the is-2

    edit: the panther exists to counter units like the comet, not the other way around.

    I will say before armor nerf, panther counter comet. Today panther vs comet is very much a draw, down to rng and micro more than ever.

    Yes comet is less used because brit have more variations, cromwell spam or churchill + firefly.

    Giving comet any more buff, will totally dominate ost, like what sov already have. In the 2v2 ac, we already see axis clinging desparately to elefant doctrince.

    Because Ost is forced to be totally dependent on panther come late game. I still dont understand its armor nerf. Panther has short sight and bad move accuracy and speed and bad ATG clearing, it needs to dive in to clear allies tanks.

    All other Ost at will have trouble penning allies late armor and their high HP values.

    Funny isnt it, previous comments allies cannot pen axis armor. Today it is the opposite. Over balanced much?

  • #46
    2 years ago
    > @Lazarus said:
    > It's just how this forum works, when you quote someones post where they @ someone, you @ the person you quote, and the person they @'d.

    Yup, gets me everytime
  • #47
    2 years ago
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > I will say before armor nerf, panther counter comet. Today panther vs comet is very much a draw, down to rng and micro more than ever.


    No, it isn't. You could not be more incorrect about this, so stop saying it.

    The comet has 30 more armor while having 50 LESS penetration at max range. If you decide to start using your brain, you'll realize that means that the comet has a LOWER (65%) chance of penetrating the panther, meanwhile the panther has a HIGHER chance (75%) of penetrating the Comet.

    And that's only if we decide to focus entirely on armor and penetration, like you are for some reason. Then we add on that the Panther also has more health AND it reloads faster. None of these things add up to an even fight at all, so just stop.
  • #48
    2 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited December 2018

    What? Comet is also smaller, harder to hit than Panther. It is speedier, it is better against infantry.
    And panther's gun has wind down time. A vet3 IS2 will shoot faster than a Vet3 panther, so no, it shoots a bit faster than comet, but is also harder to track and pen on the move.. so unless your comet stays still for some reasons.
    Sure if you 1-1 a panther and comet, panther has higher chance. But if you play as unit composition, a comet+firefly vs panther+panther, Brit has the advantage with the snipe shot. And stop talking about panther health, it can take 1 more pen shot, it also means it needs more downtime. And with allies TD, that 160 health, is down even before panther can see allies tanks.

    Seriously stop with insults you allies players. Comet is in a great spot after panther and brumbar armor nerf.

  • #49
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @mrgame2 said:
    What? Comet is also smaller, harder to hit than Panther. It is speedier, it is better against infantry.

    Comet is also much worse against tanks, has lower range, SHOOTS SLOWER and is a generalist tank, it obiously will be better vs infantrty then anti tank vehicle.

    And panther's gun has wind down time. A vet3 IS2 will shoot faster than a Vet3 panther, so no, it shoots a bit faster than comet, but is also harder to track and pen on the move.. so unless your comet stays still for some reasons.

    Newsflash, snowflake, ALL guns have a wind down time.
    That INCLUDES IS-2.
    Now, do some research and post stats or cut the bullcrap.

    Sure if you 1-1 a panther and comet, panther has higher chance. But if you play as unit composition, a comet+firefly vs panther+panther, Brit has the advantage with the snipe shot. And stop talking about panther health, it can take 1 more pen shot, it also means it needs more downtime. And with allies TD, that 160 health, is down even before panther can see allies tanks.

    Panther doesn't have "higher chance", panther literally has 100% win ratio after recent changes.
    If you play by unit composition, 2 panthers will murder firefly and will murder Comet right after, because they have massive health advantage and can bounce both comet and FF shots while only comet has a low chance to bounce panther.
    You don't even seem to realize there is a thing called fog of war, your 60 range means nadda if you can't see anything past 40, if you'll see panther, you'll get hit by it in your scenario, zero range advantage here.

    Seriously stop with insults you allies players. Comet is in a great spot after panther and brumbar armor nerf.

    Stop screaming random things you blind axis fanboi and start posting stats.
    You can also post replays and we will help you L2P.
    Until then, you're just a hot air baloon.

  • #50
    2 years ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 900
    edited December 2018

    Panther armor > Jackson armor
    Panther speed > Jackson speed
    Panther health > Jackson health
    Panther range < Jackson range
    That's it, Jackson have ridiculous range that can sit back & shoot

    Panther speed > Comet speed
    Panther range > Comet range
    Panther health > Comet health
    Panther armor < Comet armor
    That's it, Comet's armor is too high that Panther can not pen 100% of the time

    Balance demain:
    Panther speed > Jackson & Comet (its good just keep it be)
    Panther health > Jackson & Comet (its good just keep it be)
    Panther armor should increase to equal Comet
    Panther range should increase to equal Jackson

  • #51
    2 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited December 2018

    What? I already posted the stats link
    https://www.coh2db.com/stats/

    Yes Panther has wind down time. No Comet does not, neither does IS2. This can be proven using cheat command mod. Go ahead and try attack ground with both tanks. Comet main gun bullet comes out faster. Like wise the Jackson bullet is slower than panther. IS2 turret is slower, but if shooting straight, its bullet is faster than panther. The link may not be super updated as of current, but this main gun is proven with practical tests.

    No way is current panther a IS2 hard counter as you can see..

    Thats why i suggest relic to make Panther wind down time should be same as IS2, at least upon vet1. Such small buff make life fairer for Ost.

  • #52
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681
    edited December 2018

    You do realize that ALL of the stats, INCLUDING wind up, wind down and whatever else you want to count twice is included in reload cycle?
    Panther shoots ever 6.6 seconds and that's it. No additional time is added to that what so ever.
    Trying to double count values that already are accounted for is not only misleading, it shows you want to forge argument just to fit your narrative.

    And no, Panther will shoot first, 50 range is greater then 45 and as long as there is a pioneer around, panther will see comet first, comet will also not stand behind waiting for a tank, it'll be engaging infantry and exposing its position.

    Seriously, post your player card, post some replays and we will all help you learn to play the game, just wipe your tears, accept you are incorrect and that'll be the first step to getting better at the game then rank 3641.

    Also stop the bullcrap with bullet speed, because there is no such thing.

    There are only 3 "speeds" for regular shells, the "howitzer" like, which is what StuG-E, sherman dozer, brummbar and motor carrige uses, there is hitscan, which none of vehicles uses anymore(used to be used by firefly) and there is standard tank shot, which all the other ballistic tank weapons use.

    Stop coming up with things that do not exist and never did.

    Just because you scream most and loudest, does not mean you're right, its CoH2 gaming forum, not USA NPC rally, avoiding facts and creating your own will get you nowhere.

  • #53
    2 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496

    No, you do your own command mod comparison. IS2(if turret doesnt rotate) and Comet shoots faster than panther. That is a fact i am patiently telling you.

  • #54
    2 years ago
    > @mrgame2 said:
    > but is also harder to track and pen on the move.. so unless your comet stays still for some reasons.

    Whether or not a target stays still has ZERO impact on your chance to hit that target. If you don't understand basic game mechanics, you shouldn't be debating balance. And for the last time, the Comet is not hard to penetrate for the panther. It has a 75% chance at max range, that's very good.

    And by calling us allied players your just further showing your obvious axis bias. I am a CoH player, not an allied or axis player. Just because YOU choose to play one side, does not mean everyone else does. Play the game as other factions more, you really don't seem to know enough about this game
  • #55
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723
    edited December 2018

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    Whether or not a target stays still has ZERO impact on your chance to hit that target. If you don't understand basic game mechanics, you shouldn't be debating balance. And for the last time, the Comet is not hard to penetrate for the panther. It has a 75% chance at max range, that's very good.

    Chance to penetrate paints half the picture, chance to hit and penetrate and in this case chance to hit and penetrate while moving gives a much better picture.

  • #56
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @Vipper said:

    @SkysTheLimit said:
    Whether or not a target stays still has ZERO impact on your chance to hit that target. If you don't understand basic game mechanics, you shouldn't be debating balance. And for the last time, the Comet is not hard to penetrate for the panther. It has a 75% chance at max range, that's very good.

    Chance to penetrate paints half the picture, chance to hit and penetrate and in this case chance to hit and penetrate while moving gives a much better picture.

    Actually, the full picture will be drawn only if range and range difference will be included as well and accuracy of panther will be interpolated into range it'll be slugging it out with comet.

  • #57
    2 years ago

    @Vipper said:
    Chance to penetrate paints half the picture, chance to hit and penetrate and in this case chance to hit and penetrate while moving gives a much better picture.

    I don't disagree, but mrgame has said that the Comets high armor allows it to dominate the panther. That makes little sense, given that the comet has a lower chance of penetrating the panther than vice versa.

    The comets not bad, and Im not saying it is. It is NOT the Pershing, not even close.

  • #58
    2 years ago
    VipperVipper Posts: 3,723

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @Vipper said:
    Chance to penetrate paints half the picture, chance to hit and penetrate and in this case chance to hit and penetrate while moving gives a much better picture.

    I don't disagree, but mrgame has said that the Comets high armor allows it to dominate the panther. That makes little sense, given that the comet has a lower chance of penetrating the panther than vice versa.

    The comets not bad, and Im not saying it is. It is NOT the Pershing, not even close.

    Pershing is superior to Comet that is correct.

    Panther/Comet comparison makes little sense since the units serve different roles.

  • #59
    2 years ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,333 mod
    (moderator input) Please keep to the topic; sort out your personal differences over your favourite social media platform.
  • #60
    2 years ago
    mrgame2mrgame2 Posts: 496
    edited January 2019

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @Vipper said:
    Chance to penetrate paints half the picture, chance to hit and penetrate and in this case chance to hit and penetrate while moving gives a much better picture.

    I don't disagree, but mrgame has said that the Comets high armor allows it to dominate the panther. That makes little sense, given that the comet has a lower chance of penetrating the panther than vice versa.

    The comets not bad, and Im not saying it is. It is NOT the Pershing, not even close.

    come on, dont say that. I never said comet dominate panther. I said, after yet another round of panther and brumbar armor nerf, the current state of comet is at its best ever.

    giving it stronger main gun will crush what ever left of Ost already weakened armor.

  • #61
    2 years ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,681

    @mrgame2 said:

    @SkysTheLimit said:

    @Vipper said:
    Chance to penetrate paints half the picture, chance to hit and penetrate and in this case chance to hit and penetrate while moving gives a much better picture.

    I don't disagree, but mrgame has said that the Comets high armor allows it to dominate the panther. That makes little sense, given that the comet has a lower chance of penetrating the panther than vice versa.

    The comets not bad, and Im not saying it is. It is NOT the Pershing, not even close.

    come on, dont say that. I never said comet dominate panther. I said, after yet another round of panther and brumbar armor nerf, the current state of comet is at its best ever.

    giving it stronger main gun will crush what ever left of Ost already weakened armor.

    Bringing op units in line does not make a weak unit good out of sudden.

    Comet underperforms after its last nerfs over a year ago and is rarely used since.
    Panther CHANGES(as it wasn't nerfed, it was buffed by a lot at the cost of armor) and brummbar nerfs had ZERO impact, especially if the armor nerf for panther did NOT decreased its survivability even slightly as it got health boost and fire rate boost.

    If anything, comet is WEAKER against panther then it ever was as it needs MORE time to kill panther while panther needs LESS to kill it, so please, stop living in denial.

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