[SOV] Soviet trash

#1
11 months ago

Playing recent games, i've decided to start this thread.
Although the roots of the problem were visible even before the release, at the moment it can be stated with certainty: Soviets are useless and not combat capable.
Problems begin from the very beginning of the game. At the moment when the Axis launches engineering groups with submachine guns that allow them to destroy the Allies in close combat with the highest efficiency, Soviets can put on the battlefield ineffective, although numerous Conscripts or completely useless Combat Engineers.
In the early versions of the game, the Combat Engineers were an extremely weak unit, but they had a useful, albeit expensive, ability. The demolishion charge allowed the destruction of the German infantry blobs, which are the main infantry strategy of the Axis (yes, using the shooting crowd with expensive weapons is "a strategy"). The use of TM-30 and demolishion charge was essentially the only solution that allowed the destruction of blobs, as machine guns only suppressed Panzergrenadiers and Pioneers, allowing them to retreat and return immediately. Although the charge charge was effective, it was still expensive and its use was risky.
After the aforementioned explosives became visible, it lost all sense. Developers offer to "destroy obstacles." What obstacles are worth using 65 ammunition? And the British for some reason can simply "destroy obstacles" without spending anything.
While Wehrmach can deploy HMG from the early game, Soviets need to build Tier building first. However, only with first two buildings Soviets still can do win the game.
While Soviets coming to the T3 vehicles, they are already outdated and mostly useless. M5 with FLAK is too fragile to be used, T-70 is generally weak and SU-7 is the only more or less competable vehicle. In T4 Katyashas are absolutely worse then Raketens and PWerfers, they literally fail to kill anybody and do not supress. T-34 is weak in comparison to Panthers, and the only way to make it good is to pick T-34-85 commander. SU-85 is also the only unit which can do smth.
Maybe commanders' units can improve the situation? Don't worry, it isn't about the Soviets. Guardsmen' PTRS can tackle only low-tire vehicles, DP-28 is incomparable to MG43, and Guards' grenade is basically dealing no Damge to inf. At the same time Axis tier infantry have an acces to Panzersrecks, MG43 and have extremely powerful grenades, which are killing at least 2 men at enemy squad, and sometimes can wipe Fire support team out. Maybe Assault Squads are good enough? Nah, they cos 390 per squad and now have joint cooldown for frags and smokes. While previously it was high-priced but effective infantry against crew and enemy inf (do you remember how it used to be? Throwing smoke, throwing frag, assaulting in CQB), now they either have chance to deal damage, either have chance to avoid supression. Awesome, isn't it?
Coming to tanks, all lines of KV are more or less armored, but weak guns make them basically useless. IS-2 is not that bad, but in comaprison with both OKW and Wehrmacht Tigers it doesn't works well.
To conclude, the only way to win for Soviets is to wipe Axis out at the T1-T2 buidings, because Penals and Fire support are more or less adequate to their prices. If you aren't succeded... Well, probably you can resist somehow with SU-85 and ISU-152, but it only have sense if you got a lot of winning points at the first combat phase.
P. S. I have the feeling that when Relics will check this post, they'll decrease effectiveness of Soviet AT and support. Just to keep harmony and balance.

Comments

  • #2
    11 months ago
    KatitofKatitof Posts: 6,619

    Soviets are the only allied faction that stands up equally against OKW and ost... the other two factions are trash.

  • #3
    11 months ago
    ValkyrieValkyrie Posts: 2,132
    edited October 2018

    Problems with the Soviets currently:

    • Soviet openings are weak.

      • Conscripts are trash currently. Their best use currently is to steal MG42s.
      • Maxims have literally no supression.
      • Penals are good-ish, but it means sacrifising map presence early on, and it makes it harder to get Shocks or Guards due to cost. When compared to equal cost units (like the Sturmpios) they feel somewhat underwhelming, but it's a really tricky line to walk with balance.
      • Grenade upgrade is stupid, especially with how weak the molotov is.
      • Combat Engineers are really bad. Giving them PPSHes actually really helps them, but they also need a cost increase if they get them. Tried this with the modding tools and it's an excellent change.
    • SU-76 is just massively overshadowed by the T-70

    • T34/76 is underwhelming, but there's not much you can do with this unit. T34/85 should be the stock tank for the Soviets, and the accuracy for the 85 needs to be not trash.

    • IS-2 is useless

    • No proper field heal/reinforcement/retreat (partially same problem for Wehr with the retreat)

    The rest of the faction is actually pretty solid. I like the tweaks that are in the coming patch, so I skipped mentioning any of that stuff.

    The Americans and the British are far worse off.

  • #4
    11 months ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549

    Imo Good things with the soviets:

    • Penals
    • Su85
    • reliable artillery
    • AntiTank Penals
    • Actually T34/76 being great Anti-infantry.
    • partisans(totally not biased)

    Imo the problem with soviets is:

    • Large pool of units that have no reason to exist or get severely outperformed by others.
    • Its medical system its the worse of the game by far, its units not only have masive hp pools that get compensated with poor received accuracy modifiers, they can take a lot of hits but you got 3 medics to patch everyone up, and unlike most other factions none of its units selfheals in any way, apart of relying on halftracks to reinforce on the front.

    While the problems seem shorter, i could be hours explaining every underperforming unit, though that doesnt means all units apart of the ones on "good things" are bad, as shocktroops or guards work fine, though its not to penal lvl, are doctrinal and getting one always means not getting the other, if getting one at all, and I'm fine with not getting FRP, but the lack of it should mean a bonus from other points.

    Though that doesnt means the faction is weak by any means, you can win almost using only the first 2 units i exposed and a pair of repair stations.

  • #5
    11 months ago
    mlkmlk Posts: 49

    I also specify that the last patches are totally out of sync
    and do not match the reality of the game, especially for the team game 2v2 3v3 4v4.
    for example, the new maxim is indeed a disaster.
    in the game, when you recover a German weapon, it becomes a fabulous treasure. lol

  • #6
    11 months ago
    YoghurtYoghurt Posts: 77

    I don't agree that the soviets are bad, and they are my favourite faction. I am wondering though, what is the use of the demo charge now? Any unit can spot it anywhere, including seeing the ring marker around it, and occlusion when it is behind things. There is no way to ambush units with it anymore, right? So what is the purpose? Just demolishing buildings? Also, there is a bug with it. An idle nearby engineer that spots it will start to defuse it automatically, and it can't stop. Even hitting retreat will cause a bug that ultimately just makes the charge explode killing the squad. I tested this.

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