Tank's armor and back speed

#1
10 months ago
MakcumMakcum Posts: 75
edited October 2018 in General Discussion
Problem: I think that in current mechanics of game armored tanks can't be balanced, because they can just rush and impunity return on reverse gear with speed like have forward gear.
Solution: I think that best variant is Nerf back speed for all medium tanks on 50% and 25% for very heavy tanks like jagd or konigstiger. You can say that it would break the game but I think that you must play carefully and cover your tanks via guns.
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Comments

  • #2
    10 months ago
    LazarusLazarus Posts: 4,024

    The CoH2 engine does not distinguish between forwards and reverse. It is only moving and not moving, so you can't have 2 different top speeds for the same unit.

  • #3
    10 months ago
    MakcumMakcum Posts: 75
    edited October 2018
    It means that we need CoH3, this game is broken and can't be balanced
  • #4
    10 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 535

    I got jaw dropped when seeing a Panther reverse escapes from my 2 T34 forward chase years ago.
    Then I got jaw dropped again to know forward & reverse have the same max speed

  • #5
    10 months ago
    le12role12ro Posts: 2,306 mod

    (Moderator Input) Moved thread to general, as it is a broad topic that affects countless units.

  • #6
    10 months ago

    I was just thinking this. I would much prefer coh3 to have differen't speeds. Other than it being more realistic, it would punish bad pushes.

    I'd also like Coh3 to re-evaluate the whole gameplay dynamic of snares. Why do these cause engine crits but normal tank shells don't for example.

  • #7
    10 months ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549

    different backwards speed sounds good, but would increase the number of tanks lost by both derping or mistakes, and knowing that as of today armor is really timidly played imagine that everytime you need to retreat its like you were hit by a mine.

  • #8
    10 months ago
    Well you wouldn't need to reverse per say. Just turn around and expose your rear. A worthy trade off for a badly planned assault. Admittedly it would slow the games pace a bit, but currently the tanks are just glorified mechs; the combat being so close.

    Just found out the panther only had like 5kmph reverse speed but 7 forward gears. Designed to go forward.

    And very interestingly the Porsche engine tanks like the Elefant used "a petrol engine to drive an electric generator, that in turn powered a pair of electric engines linked to the tracks. That made them able to run at the same speed, forwards and backwards. Essentially they were kinda like armoured Hybrids."

    Imagine the uproar trying to balance that lol.
  • #9
    10 months ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549

    I was thinking more on the comets and their unnexistant backwards speed, which would be really troublesome unless they got a ridiculously high turn speed, however this would drop a lot of tanks survivavility to nearby 0, and probably will ask for the tiger 1 to get changued to tiger 1 P for reasons you may understand, ebcause it doesnt needs to be a badly planned assault, somebody may blob your possition supported by smoke and you wont be able to do anything to save your tanks in a lot of cases.

    Realism is good until it becomes too much real, i have rather get the focus to inmersion because if not we would end getting every single unit survivavility would be the one of the first hit, sounds interesting for a mod or even a mode but not for the game overall, at least imo

  • #10
    10 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 535

    As now in the game, a light tank rush pass a squad of core infantry or a mine (not Ost mines) result quite the same: Gets engine damage and go reserve (i talk about the game play, not the damage)

    Snares make Light vehicle/light tank less freely to push because the snare available on basic infantry. I think the game play of Light vehicle/light tank would be different if

    • Remove engine damage on Snare.
    • Reserve speed is ~75% forward speed
      Mines might be more valuable & placed more oftens. Which also make Engineer more job to do than rely on core infantry

    The scene where 2 squad of core infantry slowly walking close to engine damaged light/med tanks and snare to dead without help of mines or AT guns...

  • #11
    10 months ago
    Ya I always thought it odd seeing medium tanks reversing faster than light tanks can move forward. Makes it hard if not impossible to get behinde them. Makes trying to flank almost pointless.
  • #12
    10 months ago
    pablonanopablonano YesterdayPosts: 2,549

    flanking its not really rushing it from the front.

    Also there is a reason of why light tanks get snared by core infantry, light vehicles were too impactfull on the game, and nobody wants to face a luch that can freely move without a care in the world.

  • #13
    10 months ago
    C3ToothC3Tooth Posts: 535

    Thing is if tanks get engine damaged, they will always go reverse because the speed is the same, while they have front armor.

    With different max speed between foward & reverse (example 100speed & 75speed), the play would be much different. When engine damage, they must choose between showing front armor and go reverse as 38speed / or showing rear armor and go foward as 50speed). There must be pros & cons.

  • #14
    9 months ago
    jamesjames Posts: 24
    If relic can't change speed between front and reverse,
    Just nerf speed max of panther.
    They can road everywhere with an amazing ease.
    They can destruct same thing like big tank. (It's not normal)
  • #15
    9 months ago

    Really, it cant be fixed? Wouldn't it be as simple as an "if u (reverse) then speed =" type of code?

  • #16
    9 months ago
    XlossXloss Posts: 235

    I do think its a good idea but most of the concern in mobility goes to light tanks from every faction in their rotation speed, acceleration, and max speed.

  • #17
    9 months ago

    During the game's design, it was CHOSEN not for Tanks to have slow reverse speeds.
    Look to COH1.
    Look to COH2.

    • AT Guns : from 3 pop to 9 popl.
    • Tank Traps. No default Tank traps (Rare commanders)(USF an exception)
    • Artillery much weaker vs tanks than in COH1 (COH1 arty annihilated tanks)

    Result: COH1 : Tanks, infantry, artillery. More balanced. Often, both sides dug down and it became an arty-fest
    COH2 : Chosen to be more mobile, more flowing. Less tank traps, less AT guns... faster tanks. Arty nerfed to hell.
    no true bridge maps (except modded) AND they removed soviet ability to easily blow bridges.

    So no more game bogging down.
    Tanks are king. Now slow reverse is a part of that design.

    You are welcome :)

  • #18
    9 months ago

    Putting all this aside, the fact that coh1 had different front, rear and side armors while coh2 only has front and back is taking a step in the wrong direction

  • #19
    8 months ago
    > @pablonano said:
    > flanking its not really rushing it from the front.
    >
    > Also there is a reason of why light tanks get snared by core infantry, light vehicles were too impactfull on the game, and nobody wants to face a luch that can freely move without a care in the world.

    Well if you have tanks sitting off to the sides and push in to hit sides only to follow the tank alllll the way back to enemy base with no support there is something wrong with that.
  • #20
    8 months ago

    @Bloodygood said:
    Putting all this aside, the fact that coh1 had different front, rear and side armors while coh2 only has front and back is taking a step in the wrong direction

    tanks didnt have side armor in coh1, it was exactly the same as it is in coh2.

  • #21
    8 months ago

    tanks didnt have side armor in coh1, it was exactly the same as it is in coh2.

    I distinctly remember there being a tutorial which showed three planes for the hitboxes. Did a google search to make sure I wasn't crazy and I think other people have backed this up. Many people have said that coh1 was less reliant on rng for tank engagements than 2. Perhaps part of this was due to prevalence of skirt armor in the meta, but I think regardless of the root cause 2 has been "simplified" some from its predecessor, to say the least.

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